Seles = Nadal and Federer = Graf
- Thread starter I.M. Beck
- Start date
P_Agony
Banned
There is more to it. Not only did his parents get a divorce, his dog ate his racquet as well. This is worse than getting stabbed.
Seles never had Graf's number. At Seles's dominant peak from 91-early 93 she had a 2-3 losing head to head with Graf, and both wins were in 3 sets while Seles was destroyed twice. Seles has never beaten Graf on a medium or faster surface while Graf has beaten even peak Seles on clay, a medium hard court, and grass. In late 98-99 when the injured Graf was much further past her prime than Seles, Graf still went 2-1 vs Seles.
Your excuse for Rafa is pretty desperate straw grasping. Atleast talk about his injury which is more legit, though still not valid enough given his game style. If you want to talk about personal problems Graf slumped badly from 90-92 (moreso vs the likes of Sabatini, Sanchez Vicario, Novotna than Seles) mainly due to problems with her father off the court including a blackmail scandal; clearing Seles's rise to the top without having to even regularly having to face a struggling Graf for a few years in finals.
Your excuse for Rafa is pretty desperate straw grasping. Atleast talk about his injury which is more legit, though still not valid enough given his game style. If you want to talk about personal problems Graf slumped badly from 90-92 (moreso vs the likes of Sabatini, Sanchez Vicario, Novotna than Seles) mainly due to problems with her father off the court including a blackmail scandal; clearing Seles's rise to the top without having to even regularly having to face a struggling Graf for a few years in finals.
lessthanjake
Semi-Pro
Seles DID win 3 of their 4 slam finals against each other, and 3/5 slam meetings overall before the stabbing.
theroleoftheunderdog
Professional
this thread=fail
aphex
Banned
Obviously Rafa has always said how important family is to him, with the news obviously affecting his mental state. A source close to the Nadal camp said,:
“Rafa is devastated. All through the past couple of months he has been trying to get his tennis back on track, but his heart has been elsewhere. In public he has put on a brave face, but in private he has been hoping for a reconciliation and fervently wishing this wasn’t happening."http://tennisconnected.com/home/2009/06/27/rafas-parents-to-divorce/
“Rafa is devastated. All through the past couple of months he has been trying to get his tennis back on track, but his heart has been elsewhere. In public he has put on a brave face, but in private he has been hoping for a reconciliation and fervently wishing this wasn’t happening."http://tennisconnected.com/home/2009/06/27/rafas-parents-to-divorce/
TheMusicLover
G.O.A.T.
Exactly. Why do some people like to make Rafa look like some sugar doll all the time?
The guy with the presumed best mental fortitude out there, being so upset about something that happens to some 45% of people, and mostly even when a lot younger? Come on there.
luckyboy1300
Hall of Fame
O.O 10 chars
theroleoftheunderdog
Professional
so in other words, nadal is devastated because both his parents died
aphex
Banned
aphex
Banned
haha...yeah don't even bother with this muppet...
we'll find out who he is (N_F?) soon enough...
Lionheart392
Professional
Exactly. The Seles stabbing bandwagoners love to say these things but actually have no clue about what happened. Seles never 'owned' Graf and as you said, only beat her on slower surfaces.
Lionheart392
Professional
I know that's 9-2 to Nadal on clay and 5-4 on other surfaces to Fed?
And also Nadal is a big boy now, if he lets his parents' divorce affect his tennis then that's his problem and one he shouldn't get a free pass for. He's a grown man now and has his own life to lead.
aphex
Banned
Not really any comparision. Graf held her own vs even peak Seles on any surface and had atleast a decent shot to win anytime they stepped on court on any surface. Federer has almost no shot to win if he steps on court vs Rafa on clay.
Federer has lost to Rafa on all types of surfaces. He lost to him on lightning fast hard courts in Dubai one time, was crushed by him on medium hard courts in Miami and nearly again the next year in straights. Grass is slower now but it is still grass. Graf has never lost to Seles on any medium or faster court, and destroyed her both times they played on grass.
IvanAndreevich
Legend
And what proof does that source have that this is true? Looks like pure speculation to me.
theroleoftheunderdog
Professional
comparing women's tennis to men's tennis is just ROFL
aphex
Banned
correct me if i'm wrong but hsn't nadal lost to federer on all types of surfaces?
Rafael Nadal: Domestic Disturbance
His heart, the most important component to his success, suddenly can not summon the urge to fight.
You see, Rafael Nadal-Parera (name abbreviated shortly after success was driven), has always been about his family. The synergy and comfort which Rafa had fed off for the 23 years, appeared an eternal certainly. The dismantling of the Berlin wall being pale in comparison.
With the defending champ pulling out of Wimbledon, a slightly different perspective maybe added towards his absence.
Backtracking just a bit here, the time and place is Miami, 2009. The match: Rafael Nadal vs. Juan Martin del Potro. The situation: Nadal and del Potro split the first two sets with Rafa being up a double break in set three. The verdict: Nadal crumbling uncharacteristically, surrendering his lead and the match.
The loss became a wide spoken topic of interest—the post match interview, being a prelude to the future. That is where the beginning of the current end began for Nadal.
When asked: Are you mystified or puzzled by how you played during this tournament, or do you understand why you didn’t play well and know what to do next?
Rafa answered: “Always is a reason why you are not playing at your level during the tournament. No, I am calm. I am happy about myself, about everything this year, yeah. I don’t know. Always is a reason, but it’s personal.”
At the time it must have been. For a boy who was enthralled and intent on never leaving his protective castle in Mallocra, now would have the daunting task of pondering the process of handling the separation of his two greatest heroes. There would be no favorites in that decision.
Throughout the clay-court season it was evident that Nadal was not himself. Although only one loss accompanied him towards the beginning of French Open, the exuberance of victory during his three previous titles had dissipated. The glimmer of the “W” had been clouded by the “personal” issue.
During his junior days, a cleared headed Rafa made the strong-nosed decision to stay put. There would be no frolic towards the tennis heaven of Barcelona. His family was in Mallorca, and so remained his tennis training. Moms cooking, and the war stories shared with his father were of greater value than any trophy or accolade he would ever capture—the sync of a healthy, and together family meant everything.
The years of triumph followed suit. After every practice and every win, a phone call home would be dialed by the meticulous and methodical Spaniard. The thought of two phone calls never entered his mind.
His legion of fan’s would cheer his efforts; the players box contained two supportive parents.
Rafa’s greatest reward would be based on his support system, which was vital to his success. Not the precise positioning of his water bottles.
Now the time has come, and Nadal’s toughest challenge awaits. He will enter his next tournament and the rest of his professional career with the thought of domestic disturbance. Rafa may have his parents at his next Wimbledon or French Open final, they will not be cheering together, but separate.
How will the dark blanket between his parents effect the Spaniard going forward? Will his unbridled desire to win stay in tact? For the moment that answer awaits in the bounds, much like whether or not to tape up his knees.
Although many pundits and experts will blame his knees for his recent set back, a greater introspection is required in order to digest the utter pathos which the Spaniard is enduring. No matter how many times his biceps bludgeon through a ball, the scorn outlook of a divided family troubles Nadal the most.
The future is uncertain, that’s how it goes. Nothing lasts forever, even for those who have it all. But in the wake of devastation comes the essence of what truly builds character—you find out what you’re made of when the count is at nine, and the rope becomes your only crutch.
The bandanna and grunt will be on court soon enough, August 10th to be exact. A new chapter in the already lauded achievements of the Spaniard awaits.
Should be a great fight.
http://tennisconnected.com/home/tag/parents-divorce/
His heart, the most important component to his success, suddenly can not summon the urge to fight.
You see, Rafael Nadal-Parera (name abbreviated shortly after success was driven), has always been about his family. The synergy and comfort which Rafa had fed off for the 23 years, appeared an eternal certainly. The dismantling of the Berlin wall being pale in comparison.
With the defending champ pulling out of Wimbledon, a slightly different perspective maybe added towards his absence.
Backtracking just a bit here, the time and place is Miami, 2009. The match: Rafael Nadal vs. Juan Martin del Potro. The situation: Nadal and del Potro split the first two sets with Rafa being up a double break in set three. The verdict: Nadal crumbling uncharacteristically, surrendering his lead and the match.
The loss became a wide spoken topic of interest—the post match interview, being a prelude to the future. That is where the beginning of the current end began for Nadal.
When asked: Are you mystified or puzzled by how you played during this tournament, or do you understand why you didn’t play well and know what to do next?
Rafa answered: “Always is a reason why you are not playing at your level during the tournament. No, I am calm. I am happy about myself, about everything this year, yeah. I don’t know. Always is a reason, but it’s personal.”
At the time it must have been. For a boy who was enthralled and intent on never leaving his protective castle in Mallocra, now would have the daunting task of pondering the process of handling the separation of his two greatest heroes. There would be no favorites in that decision.
Throughout the clay-court season it was evident that Nadal was not himself. Although only one loss accompanied him towards the beginning of French Open, the exuberance of victory during his three previous titles had dissipated. The glimmer of the “W” had been clouded by the “personal” issue.
During his junior days, a cleared headed Rafa made the strong-nosed decision to stay put. There would be no frolic towards the tennis heaven of Barcelona. His family was in Mallorca, and so remained his tennis training. Moms cooking, and the war stories shared with his father were of greater value than any trophy or accolade he would ever capture—the sync of a healthy, and together family meant everything.
The years of triumph followed suit. After every practice and every win, a phone call home would be dialed by the meticulous and methodical Spaniard. The thought of two phone calls never entered his mind.
His legion of fan’s would cheer his efforts; the players box contained two supportive parents.
Rafa’s greatest reward would be based on his support system, which was vital to his success. Not the precise positioning of his water bottles.
Now the time has come, and Nadal’s toughest challenge awaits. He will enter his next tournament and the rest of his professional career with the thought of domestic disturbance. Rafa may have his parents at his next Wimbledon or French Open final, they will not be cheering together, but separate.
How will the dark blanket between his parents effect the Spaniard going forward? Will his unbridled desire to win stay in tact? For the moment that answer awaits in the bounds, much like whether or not to tape up his knees.
Although many pundits and experts will blame his knees for his recent set back, a greater introspection is required in order to digest the utter pathos which the Spaniard is enduring. No matter how many times his biceps bludgeon through a ball, the scorn outlook of a divided family troubles Nadal the most.
The future is uncertain, that’s how it goes. Nothing lasts forever, even for those who have it all. But in the wake of devastation comes the essence of what truly builds character—you find out what you’re made of when the count is at nine, and the rope becomes your only crutch.
The bandanna and grunt will be on court soon enough, August 10th to be exact. A new chapter in the already lauded achievements of the Spaniard awaits.
Should be a great fight.
http://tennisconnected.com/home/tag/parents-divorce/
aphex
Banned
Rafael Nadal: Domestic Disturbance
His heart, the most important component to his success, suddenly can not summon the urge to fight.
You see, Rafael Nadal-Parera (name abbreviated shortly after success was driven), has always been about his family. The synergy and comfort which Rafa had fed off for the 23 years, appeared an eternal certainly. The dismantling of the Berlin wall being pale in comparison.
With the defending champ pulling out of Wimbledon, a slightly different perspective maybe added towards his absence.
Backtracking just a bit here, the time and place is Miami, 2009. The match: Rafael Nadal vs. Juan Martin del Potro. The situation: Nadal and del Potro split the first two sets with Rafa being up a double break in set three. The verdict: Nadal crumbling uncharacteristically, surrendering his lead and the match.
The loss became a wide spoken topic of interest—the post match interview, being a prelude to the future. That is where the beginning of the current end began for Nadal.
When asked: Are you mystified or puzzled by how you played during this tournament, or do you understand why you didn’t play well and know what to do next?
Rafa answered: “Always is a reason why you are not playing at your level during the tournament. No, I am calm. I am happy about myself, about everything this year, yeah. I don’t know. Always is a reason, but it’s personal.”
At the time it must have been. For a boy who was enthralled and intent on never leaving his protective castle in Mallocra, now would have the daunting task of pondering the process of handling the separation of his two greatest heroes. There would be no favorites in that decision.
Throughout the clay-court season it was evident that Nadal was not himself. Although only one loss accompanied him towards the beginning of French Open, the exuberance of victory during his three previous titles had dissipated. The glimmer of the “W” had been clouded by the “personal” issue.
During his junior days, a cleared headed Rafa made the strong-nosed decision to stay put. There would be no frolic towards the tennis heaven of Barcelona. His family was in Mallorca, and so remained his tennis training. Moms cooking, and the war stories shared with his father were of greater value than any trophy or accolade he would ever capture—the sync of a healthy, and together family meant everything.
The years of triumph followed suit. After every practice and every win, a phone call home would be dialed by the meticulous and methodical Spaniard. The thought of two phone calls never entered his mind.
His legion of fan’s would cheer his efforts; the players box contained two supportive parents.
Rafa’s greatest reward would be based on his support system, which was vital to his success. Not the precise positioning of his water bottles.
Now the time has come, and Nadal’s toughest challenge awaits. He will enter his next tournament and the rest of his professional career with the thought of domestic disturbance. Rafa may have his parents at his next Wimbledon or French Open final, they will not be cheering together, but separate.
How will the dark blanket between his parents effect the Spaniard going forward? Will his unbridled desire to win stay in tact? For the moment that answer awaits in the bounds, much like whether or not to tape up his knees.
Although many pundits and experts will blame his knees for his recent set back, a greater introspection is required in order to digest the utter pathos which the Spaniard is enduring. No matter how many times his biceps bludgeon through a ball, the scorn outlook of a divided family troubles Nadal the most.
The future is uncertain, that’s how it goes. Nothing lasts forever, even for those who have it all. But in the wake of devastation comes the essence of what truly builds character—you find out what you’re made of when the count is at nine, and the rope becomes your only crutch.
The bandanna and grunt will be on court soon enough, August 10th to be exact. A new chapter in the already lauded achievements of the Spaniard awaits.
Should be a great fight.
http://tennisconnected.com/home/tag/parents-divorce/
He has lost 2 times to Federer in 11 matches on clay, and all 4 matches at the French without once going to a 5th set. He has very little shot if they play on clay, especialy at the French.
aphex
Banned
yep, too bad nadal wasn't good enough to make it to the final in 2009.
and by "wasn't good enough", i mean "buttraepd by soderling"
I am not questioning that Federer deserved to win this years French Open. He certainly did. I am just talking about specific head to head play between Graf and Seles, and Federer and Nadal. Federer owns the field far more than Nadal, so despite his overall immense difficulties with Nadal he is by far the top and most dominant player of this era. In the early 90s it was kind of the reverse in that Seles owned the field far more than Graf, hence Seles dominating without really dominating Graf herself.
TheFifthSet
Legend
gj or Nadal_Freak?
That is the question.
That is the question.
aphex
Banned
Lionheart392
Professional
gj HATES Graf so more likely him. I don't recall N_F ever expressing negative views on Graf but then again perhaps gj educated him on the subject over dinner
vanciki
Banned
Slower grass is a myth.
TheFifthSet
Legend
Warriorroger
Hall of Fame
Tenniswise the OP is right. Lefthanded vs righthanded. The classic allcourt/powerplayer (Roger/Steffi) vs an Agressive counterpuncher/baseliner (Rafa/Monica), slice/footwork/serve (Roger/Steffi) vs angles, depth, power (Rafa/Monica), but the dynamics of the rivalries are not similar. Graf and Seles highly respected each other, but there was no mental fear from both sides. Seles never owned Graf. When you watch Federer Nadal it's a different mental affair than Graf vs Seles. How it will be now will be interesting to see. I do see similarities in terms of styles, superstar tennisplayers, but not in head to head encounters.
TheFifthSet
Legend
I agree, they (who?) should stop saying (what?) that, it just makes them (who?) sound like complete hypocrites.
Another similarity is that both Nadal & Seles were both youngsters who rocked the establisment ( Federer & Graf respectively) and won three of the four slams in one year.
( technically Nadal did not win three in the same year).
Warriorroger
Hall of Fame
Again, there are similarities in the rivalry, can't believe it has been 13 years since they last traded groundstrokes at the US Open.
Federer lead in nearly every set at their encounters at the FO from 2005-2007. He lead in the 4th set by a break, was totally obliterating Nadal in the 2006 final before he choked, and had every break chance he could possibly think of in 2007.
Their encounters at the FO were much closer than people like to portray them as.
grafselesfan
Banned
All that shows is Federer can play well enough in spurts to trouble/beat Nadal on clay but cant sustain the level for a whole match needed to beat Nadal on clay other than the very rare occasion, and never in 1 of the 3 biggest clay court events.
Or in a grand slam.....actually the only surface Fed could even make it close was grass.
You think the AO wasn't close? Also, you don't think at the AO 2009 Rafael Nadal was a bit more into his prime than Roger Federer?
Btw, I would like your honest opinion on Steffi Graf I.M. Beck. Do you think she's the GOAT of women, or was Seles better?
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