Don't talk to aliens - Stephen Hawking

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
THE aliens are out there and Earth had better watch out, at least according to Stephen Hawking. He has suggested that extraterrestrials are almost certain to exist — but that instead of seeking them out, humanity should be doing all it that can to avoid any contact.
The suggestions come in a new documentary series in which Hawking, one of the world’s leading scientists, will set out his latest thinking on some of the universe’s greatest mysteries.
Alien life, he will suggest, is almost certain to exist in many other parts of the universe: not just in planets, but perhaps in the centre of stars or even floating in interplanetary space.
Hawking’s logic on aliens is, for him, unusually simple. The universe, he points out, has 100 billion galaxies, each containing hundreds of millions of stars. In such a big place, Earth is unlikely to be the only planet where life has evolved.


“To my mathematical brain, the numbers alone make thinking about aliens perfectly rational,” he said. “The real challenge is to work out what aliens might actually be like.”
The answer, he suggests, is that most of it will be the equivalent of microbes or simple animals — the sort of life that has dominated Earth for most of its history.
One scene in his documentary for the Discovery Channel shows herds of two-legged herbivores browsing on an alien cliff-face where they are picked off by flying, yellow lizard-like predators. Another shows glowing fluorescent aquatic animals forming vast shoals in the oceans thought to underlie the thick ice coating Europa, one of the moons of Jupiter.
Such scenes are speculative, but Hawking uses them to lead on to a serious point: that a few life forms could be intelligent and pose a threat. Hawking believes that contact with such a species could be devastating for humanity.
He suggests that aliens might simply raid Earth for its resources and then move on: “We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn’t want to meet. I imagine they might exist in massive ships, having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonise whatever planets they can reach.”
He concludes that trying to make contact with alien races is “a little too risky”. He said: “If aliens ever visit us, I think the outcome would be much as when Christopher Columbus first landed in America, which didn’t turn out very well for the Native Americans.”
The completion of the documentary marks a triumph for Hawking, now 68, who is paralysed by motor neurone disease and has very limited powers of communication. The project took him and his producers three years, during which he insisted on rewriting large chunks of the script and checking the filming.
John Smithson, executive producer for Discovery, said: “He wanted to make a programme that was entertaining for a general audience as well as scientific and that’s a tough job, given the complexity of the ideas involved.”
Hawking has suggested the possibility of alien life before but his views have been clarified by a series of scientific breakthroughs, such as the discovery, since 1995, of more than 450 planets orbiting distant stars, showing that planets are a common phenomenon.
So far, all the new planets found have been far larger than Earth, but only because the telescopes used to detect them are not sensitive enough to detect Earth-sized bodies at such distances.
Another breakthrough is the discovery that life on Earth has proven able to colonise its most extreme environments. If life can survive and evolve there, scientists reason, then perhaps nowhere is out of bounds.
Hawking’s belief in aliens places him in good scientific company. In his recent Wonders of the Solar System BBC series, Professor Brian Cox backed the idea, too, suggesting Mars, Europa and Titan, a moon of Saturn, as likely places to look.
Similarly, Lord Rees, the astronomer royal, warned in a lecture earlier this year that aliens might prove to be beyond human understanding.
“I suspect there could be life and intelligence out there in forms we can’t conceive,” he said. “Just as a chimpanzee can’t understand quantum theory, it could be there are aspects of reality that are beyond the capacity of our brains.”


Stephen Hawking's Universe begins on the Discovery Channel on Sunday May 9 at 9pm


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/space/article7107207.ece?
 

Meaghan

Hall of Fame
Thanks i will put that in my diary.

In a 'world' of infinite possibilities then there is surely alien life. If they happen upon us then they will be a more advanced species and will probably eat us all alive and steal our washing.

Looking forward to it (the series not losing my pants off the line!)
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
I actually expected some better stuff from SH. Pretty trite.

In any case, its a bit late. SETI has been sending signals on some frequencies for a decade or more.

I suspect there are chaps out there that already know we exist.

Some of them could be in forms that we would not even recognize as life or intelligent.

They could even already be here, and we not know.
 
T

TennisandMusic

Guest
So apparently Stephen Hawking, - and Calvin - have come to the same conclusion.

thealienscame.jpg
 

lethalfang

Professional
I actually expected some better stuff from SH. Pretty trite.

In any case, its a bit late. SETI has been sending signals on some frequencies for a decade or more.

I suspect there are chaps out there that already know we exist.

Some of them could be in forms that we would not even recognize as life or intelligent.

They could even already be here, and we not know.

I don't think SETI is actively sending out signals. They're only "listening" for them. In any case, our own radio and TV signals have been going out since the 1940's, so we hardly need SETI for that.
However, due to the speed of light, the earliest radio signal has only travel about 60 light years. The signal will be extremely diluted by the time they get there. Besides, there aren't that many planets within 60 light-years of earth.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
^ Righto about SETI. But there are some other projects that have been beaming signals. Yes, the speed of light means signals will take ages to reach, their reply will take as much time.

1940's ?? But what about all the smoke signals for the last few millenia. Surely, someone in another galaxy would have caught them by now and sent a smoke signal back :-D
 

Talker

Hall of Fame
Interesing.
I wouldn't want to wake sleeping dogs.
I've got things set up the way I like on earth and don't need someone coming down and messing with it.
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
My eldest brother, also a theoretical astrophysicist, is the first to admit that theoreticians tend to burn out after (or during) middle age. Hawking is nearly 70. But I suppose if I could barely move a single muscle in my body like Hawking, I'd also be afraid of encountering something I couldn't reason with.
 

jswinf

Professional
The Calvin & Hobbes above has a distinct twisted Dr. Suess flavor.

It occurs to me that Hawking has lots of time to think, what with his physical condition and all. I don't think I'd trade with him.
 
The aliens in the Calvin & Hobbes comic would not be able to communicate withe the humans via speaker if they sucked up all the air. Silly Calvin :)
 

NickC

Professional
Do we really need Stephen Hawking to speculate about aliens? A 5 year old could do as good a job.

I'd like to see a 5-year-old who can think on the same level as Hawking. If such a child exists, why haven't the Harvards or the Oxfords of the world signed him up already?
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
I actually expected some better stuff from SH. Pretty trite.

In any case, its a bit late. SETI has been sending signals on some frequencies for a decade or more.

I suspect there are chaps out there that already know we exist.

Some of them could be in forms that we would not even recognize as life or intelligent.

They could even already be here, and we not know.

I agree. No a whole lot of thoughtful analysis based on the text above.

He really thinks that life forms who have mastered space travel or something more advanced would bother raping the Earth of its measly resources? That's laughable.

The biggest threat(s) to the human race are right here on this planet.
 
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raiden031

Legend
Stephen Hawking has officially proved to me that he's seen at least one of these:

Independence Day
War of the Worlds
Spaceballs
The Faculty
Invaders from Mars
V

I'm sure there are even more possibiliities as well.
 

Fedace

Banned
Aliens will do to us what we did to Indians in america. We will be living in small resevations on the Moon once we know we exist...
 

skyzoo

Banned
Wow, Myself and Hawking have similar thought patterns when i'm inebriated except he gets global attention for it rather than a pat on the back from a friend telling me to shut up. Life is unfair like that I guess.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
Actually, its hardly likely if aliens did come across vast distances, that they'd just pop by to say hello.

At their level of scientific advancement, they should not have to come so far for water, oxygen, etc. The metals or elements we do have on earth are present on most stars/planets. If they are looking for an oxygen bearing planet, much easier to drop some algae or bacteria on a nearby planet with some atmosphere and gravity and wait a 100 years, than travel thousands of light-years to a world that will have to be "purged" and sanitized first.

If they can travel hundred or thousands of light years, fuel is hardly what they would want. I don;t think their biology, if they have one, would benefit from our body parts as some tabloids often talk of.

If they are out of space on their galaxy and are colonizing, then after generations of living on large spaceships, I don't think those generations would want to switch to planet life. They would have everything they need on their large spaceship.

So why would they come ?

And if they do need a planet like ours, and could not find one closer, its just possible SH thinks they'd wipe us out without batting an eyelid. Well, some robot program would do so, and then they'd just come over.

No contact.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
^^ Actually, I've just decoded the latest radio transmission from Betelguese sent 5000 years ago.

It;s an order for an iPad.
 
I'd like to see a 5-year-old who can think on the same level as Hawking. If such a child exists, why haven't the Harvards or the Oxfords of the world signed him up already?

Wow. You mean Stephen Hawking is smarter than 5 year olds? I think you missed my point. What good does such baseless speculation do? Anybody can imagine whatever they want about alien life and it's probably happening somewhere. It's a big universe. I see no evidence that his vast knowledge has translated into anything significant on this particular topic.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
Wow. You mean Stephen Hawking is smarter than 5 year olds? I think you missed my point. What good does such baseless speculation do? Anybody can imagine whatever they want about alien life and it's probably happening somewhere. It's a big universe. I see no evidence that his vast knowledge has translated into anything significant on this particular topic.
Storm, the outcome of his speculations may be a simple yes or no, but we don't know how much he has considered before arriving at his conclusion. Surely, he would have considered a lot more than the average Joe would.

(also) Most people I've seen tend to base their thoughts and logic around what they already believe to be true. That is, the logic/data/stats come later, selected to support one's belief.

Hopefully, SH did not do that. I;ve always believed in benign ET's, that really advanced ET's would also be compassionate, peaceful etc etc. More of wishful thinking.

But I am realizing that there's a lot more to things than our parochial view. We don;t think twice about cutting down forests to make a city, or clearing up anthills to make a house. We don;t even send them notices to move out. We just charge in unannounced.

What's preventing a sufficiently advanced and totally different civilization from just wiping us out without a thought so they can colonize. We might look just like ants to them. Who cares if we can communicate using radio waves or microwaves. Do we care that bats or other creatures can use sonar. Do we care that swarms of birds can fly without hitting one another, change direction in unison etc.

In our past, any meeting between civilizations has literally wiped out or decimated one of them. Perhaps, as a safeguard, civilizations would prefer to wipe out the other before colonizing. Just like fumigating a house before living there, or taking a shot before going to Africa.

So maybe its really wise to lie low.

There;s a difference in the average Joe thinking ET's are bad because he's seen ID or he can't stand any creature he's not used to seeing, and a scientist weighing various hypothesis and "equations" and coming out with a probability.
 

albino smurf

Professional
I'd figure any life form capable of visiting us would be so far beyond us that we might not even know we'd been visited/observed. Kind of like when we go to the zoo or look at an ant farm.
 

malakas

Banned
Actually, its hardly likely if aliens did come across vast distances, that they'd just pop by to say hello.

At their level of scientific advancement, they should not have to come so far for water, oxygen, etc. The metals or elements we do have on earth are present on most stars/planets. If they are looking for an oxygen bearing planet, much easier to drop some algae or bacteria on a nearby planet with some atmosphere and gravity and wait a 100 years, than travel thousands of light-years to a world that will have to be "purged" and sanitized first.
.

bacteria,algae?You're assuming that similar life-forms exists in their ecosystem-which is a big assumption.

I agree on the rest.Except I also believe they could come here looking for life-not energy/metal resources.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
bacteria,algae?You're assuming that similar life-forms exists in their ecosystem-which is a big assumption.

I agree on the rest.Except I also believe they could come here looking for life-not energy/metal resources.
1. Okay, then lets say they breathe methane. And on their system they have some kind of primitive thing that creates methane (something primitive must have created that environment). They would have *some* means of recreating that environment on a new system. It could be a primitive life form, a chemical, a bio-chemical etc.

2. What do you mean "looking for life". why do they need to do that ? Remember that the cost must have been huge.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
I'd figure any life form capable of visiting us would be so far beyond us that we might not even know we'd been visited/observed. Kind of like when we go to the zoo or look at an ant farm.

A good thought. They could observe us using means so undetectable or small that we would not know.

Another possibility is that they've dropped by a million years back and found nothing promising and gone on. IF they came here 5 million years back, they would have had no reason to believe intelligent life would ever come about here.

With about 15 billion years of this universe, and many stars are far older than the sun, the possibility of intelligent life having evolved somewhere is quite good. However, we've been around for too short a time. By the time our signals reach anywhere and a response comes, it will be thousands of years.

It's also possible that life has come and gone on many systems. Either self-destructive tendencies. Or else their sources of natural fuel got exhausted before they could develop a viable alternative that is replenish-able. Our energy requirements are shooting up as we become more techno advanced.

What happens if we are unable to harness solar or nuclear energy before fossil fuels are exhausted. Will we languish / retrogress into a non-tech civilization ?

A thought just occurred. Maybe most "civilized" civilizations have a policy of "do not disturb" a growing civilization. However, the only ones who will flaunt this will be ones that are not well-meaning. Thus, we do have reasons to fear anyone who comes around or wishes contact.

I personally think we need to "grow up" before most intelligent beings will want to contact us.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I personally don't believe that life is that easy to create. There may be 100s of billions of stars, but the Drake's equation which used probabilities to calculate the chance of intelligent life has now been modified to avoid vicinities of black holes and so on. The new calculations are much less impressive. I wouldn't be surprised if life is a phenomenon that has occured only once in the age of the Universe and actually means nothing at all in the big picture.
 

Fedace

Banned
That exact quote was in the article the OP posted. Did you pass first grade by any chance?



How much acid have you eaten today?

YES i know, it is a burden to carry such identical thoughts with greats like Stephen Hawking.........Sighhhh................
 

albino smurf

Professional
I personally don't believe that life is that easy to create. There may be 100s of billions of stars, but the Drake's equation which used probabilities to calculate the chance of intelligent life has now been modified to avoid vicinities of black holes and so on. The new calculations are much less impressive. I wouldn't be surprised if life is a phenomenon that has occured only once in the age of the Universe and actually means nothing at all in the big picture.

As far as we know it has occurred 1 out of 8 times in our solar system, with a lot of potential for it to have existed elsewhere in our solar system at some time, so the odds are against it only happening once in the whole universe.
 

PimpMyGame

Hall of Fame
When I first heard the story on Radio 4 yesterday morning I thought yup, if I said that then everyone would be like 'Duh, of course you shouldn't mess with aliens'. But of course we are talking about SH here, so the award from Captain Obvious stays firmly in the cupboard and the whole world gets to know about this amazing scientific "thought".
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
As far as we know it has occurred 1 out of 8 times in our solar system, with a lot of potential for it to have existed elsewhere in our solar system at some time, so the odds are against it only happening once in the whole universe.

A one time occurence is not convincing. Why limit to the solar system? Why not say it is 1 out of as many places as we know does not have life? Then it becomes very small indeed.
 

jswinf

Professional
So why would they come ?

On Delphinium V we have become unbalanced by development of super-intelligence. We send out our emmisaries to find non-intelligent life that we may import to re-establish equilibrium. Reports back from this planet--JACKPOT!!! But don't tell anybody.
 

FuriousYellow

Professional
Aliens will do to us what we did to Indians in america. We will be living in small resevations on the Moon once we know we exist...

You're putting humanity too high on the evolutionary scale. We will be put in zoos and circuses and used for medical experiments and cosmetic testing.
 

albino smurf

Professional
A one time occurence is not convincing

There is a whole lot of life here. Even places that would seem devoid of life have it, so I disagree completely with that. Even the Bikini Atoll that was nuked to a crisp has life again. Life finds a way.

Why limit to the solar system? Why not say it is 1 out of as many places as we know does not have life? Then it becomes very small indeed.

Then it is more like one out of three, right, and there are still a lot of questions about Mars, so really we only know that there is no life on the moon and that there is life on Earth. We can make the assumption that there is no life on Mercury as well. Probably not on Venus, Jupiter and Saturn (although their moons might harbor some life forms). Past that has not really been resolved. It seems highly unlikely to me that we would be the only life forms in our galaxy, nearly impossible in the entire Universe just from the sheer size and scope of it.
 
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sureshs

Bionic Poster
There is a whole lot of life here. Even places that would seem devoid of life have it, so I disagree completely with that. Even the Bikini Atoll that was nuked to a crisp has life again. Life finds a way.

Yes, if it was already around. Quite different from when there was no life.
 

malakas

Banned
1. Okay, then lets say they breathe methane. And on their system they have some kind of primitive thing that creates methane (something primitive must have created that environment). They would have *some* means of recreating that environment on a new system. It could be a primitive life form, a chemical, a bio-chemical etc.

2. What do you mean "looking for life". why do they need to do that ? Remember that the cost must have been huge.

1.breath??You're still thinking with humans terms,aliens not necessarily will breath.Their whole metabolism can be so much different than ours.

2. Because the minerals and metals are abudant in the universe but life perhaps-and as far all our evidence show to us-is not.Therefore if they come here in my opinion,it would be for no other reason that because in this planet there is life.That would be their motive.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
I personally don't believe that life is that easy to create. There may be 100s of billions of stars, but the Drake's equation which used probabilities to calculate the chance of intelligent life has now been modified to avoid vicinities of black holes and so on. The new calculations are much less impressive. I wouldn't be surprised if life is a phenomenon that has occured only once in the age of the Universe and actually means nothing at all in the big picture.

You are sadly right. Even as far as this earth is concerned and evolution is concerned, evolution or nature is only concerned in reproduction. Not interested in intelligent life. Or else many more of the billion species would have evolved more intelligence. It is possible that intelligence was only some kind of evolutionary response -- some chance -- if that set of circumstances had not occurred there would have been no man as we know ourselves.

Even if life does come about cheaply all over the universe, there's a very low chance that it will evolve to some form of intelligence that can communicate with other systems.

There's also every chance that if it has happened elsewhere it got extinguished very fast. On the scale of the age of the universe, even life on this earth may be a tiny blip.

Hypothetically, it can be that some race once checked by on earth and found no life here. When they once again go swinging by again they find no trace of life. No trace that in the billion years in between their 2 visits, a race developed and got destroyed somehow !
 

mtommer

Hall of Fame
Who here thinks that in 1,000 years we will progress to a peaceful, noble, etc. race? I don't. We never have. If we don't, why is it improbable to think other races don't?
 

albino smurf

Professional
Who here thinks that in 1,000 years we will progress to a peaceful, noble, etc. race? I don't. We never have. If we don't, why is it improbable to think other races don't?

Well, we have eliminated the Rants and Raves section so maybe peace is possible.
 

malakas

Banned
Who here thinks that in 1,000 years we will progress to a peaceful, noble, etc. race? I don't. We never have. If we don't, why is it improbable to think other races don't?

Why NOT?To speculate now about the future and behaviour of humans 1000 years ahead imo is futile.perhaps we don't manage but I by no means think it's out of the question and absolutely improbable.

Also to reach deductions on the psychological profile of alien life forms based on human behaviour is imo meaningless
 
All i want to say is that life on other planets could be NOTHING like ours. It may not contain carbon, or oxygen, or DNA, or proteins, or anything we know to be organic. It may not be intelligent, it may not get energy from anywhere we thought possible. It may not know how to communicate by radio; it may have found a much more efficient way to communicate and has long since abandoned radio. It may want to conquer the universe; it may not even realize there are things beyond its planet.

Also, in the great age of the universe, our race's time is but a speck. It's highly possible that civilizations were created, wiped out, wiped themselves out, etc. We have no idea. There is no point arguing.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
All i want to say is that life on other planets could be NOTHING like ours. It may not contain carbon, or oxygen, or DNA, or proteins, or anything we know to be organic. It may not be intelligent, it may not get energy from anywhere we thought possible. It may not know how to communicate by radio; it may have found a much more efficient way to communicate and has long since abandoned radio. It may want to conquer the universe; it may not even realize there are things beyond its planet.

Also, in the great age of the universe, our race's time is but a speck. It's highly possible that civilizations were created, wiped out, wiped themselves out, etc. We have no idea. There is no point arguing.

Maybe that's why it is safer not to advertise our presence.
 
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