Why has Nadal not been able to win the US Open

R

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
It seems he is capable of great results at the other Slams but he doesn't have the game at the US Open. It's not that he has run into a player who is a bad match for his style but rather multiple players have beaten in including Ferrer, Blake, Youzhny and Del Potro, What is lacking in his game that is preventing him from winning the tournament? This is not a hate thread but rather a question as to why he has not been able to find success.
 
kanamit

kanamit

Hall of Fame
Simple answer to an easy question, the fast US Open courts and the low bounce neutralize Nadal's weapons. Just like the clay courts neutralize Serena's weapons.
 
muzza123

muzza123

Banned
kanamit said:
Simple answer to an easy question, the fast US Open courts and the low bounce neutralize Nadal's weapons. Just like the clay courts neutralize Serena's weapons.
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Yep, Nadal loses his edge. It's a very even contest in the Big Apple.
 
D

dmt

Hall of Fame
His serve cannot get him enough free points on the surface. Plus those fast courts reward relatively flat groundstrokes and Nadal usually hits with lots of topspin which is virtually ineffective on decoturf. He has won the olympic gold on the same surface (but that was the best of three sets). Other players like Federer or Djoker can serve well, get weak returns from their opponent and finish the point of with a winner. Nadal's serve isnt big enough to continously put his opponents on the defensive in order for him to hit the winner.
 
Bud

Bud

Bionic Poster
dmt said:
His serve cannot get him enough free points on the surface. Plus those fast courts reward relatively flat groundstrokes and Nadal usually hits with lots of topspin which is virtually ineffective on decoturf. He has won the olympic gold on the same surface (but that was the best of three sets). Other players like Federer or Murray can serve well, get weak returns from their opponent and finish the point of with a winner. Nadal's serve isnt big enough to continously put his opponents on the defensive in order for him to hit the winner.
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He's also won the Canada MS1000 title 2x... which is also on Decoturf. Since Nadal has won 3 big titles on Decoturf, there is no reason he can't win the USO.
 
muzza123

muzza123

Banned
dmt said:
His serve cannot get him enough free points on the surface. Plus those fast courts reward relatively flat groundstrokes and Nadal usually hits with lots of topspin which is virtually ineffective on decoturf. He has won the olympic gold on the same surface (but that was the best of three sets). Other players like Federer or Djoker can serve well, get weak returns from their opponent and finish the point of with a winner. Nadal's serve isnt big enough to continously put his opponents on the defensive in order for him to hit the winner.
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The final was best of 5 IIRC....
 
R

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
Bud said:
He's also won the Canada MS1000 title 2x... which is also on Decoturf. Since Nadal has won 3 big titles on Decoturf, there is no reason he can't win the USO.
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The surface is slow as hell in Toronto, that can't be the same surface as the US Open.
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
Bud said:
He's also won the Canada MS1000 title 2x... which is also on Decoturf. Since Nadal has won 3 big titles on Decoturf, there is no reason he can't win the USO.
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toronto is clearly slower than the USO surface. The Olympics one was as quick as the USO one though.
 
R

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
Mustard said:
Toronto is not that slow. It's faster than the Australian Open, Indian Wells and Miami.
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It looks pretty slow when watching on TV. It looks nothing like watching the Cincinatti tournament or the US Open on TV. The YE Masters tounament usually looks pretty quick as well except for last year.
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
From fastest to slowest of the outdoor hardcourts, IMO:

Cincinnati
US Open
Toronto
Indian Wells
Australian Open
Miami
 
C

ChrisCrocker

Rookie
It doesn't matter, as soon as Nadal goes deep into a tournament, that tournament will be considered slow. When Murray and Nadal meet in the final, that will be the slowest court of all the slams, including the french.
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Ray Mercer said:
It looks pretty slow when watching on TV. It looks nothing like watching the Cincinatti tournament or the US Open on TV. The YE Masters tounament usually looks pretty quick as well except for last year.
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Compared to Cincinnati and the US Open, it is slow. It's just that Toronto is faster than the hardcourts from early in the year.
 
L

LeoR

Banned
Nadal is able to win the USO but it will be tough.

Nadal has already won two MS on the same surface than the US Open, the canadian open (once at Toronto once at Montreal).

Nadal also won the Olympics, who was played on the same surface than the USO. He also won Dubai a few years ago.

The Queen's is probably the fastest court in the world and Nadal won it in 2008.

Nadal, if he stays healthy, has a shot for the USO title.
 
Blinkism

Blinkism

Legend
Well, he has made it to the semifinals the last two times he's played there and he's got relative success in the Canada Masters (and he's OK in Cincy), at the Olympics, and other fast HC tournaments.

There's no reason why he shouldn't be included in the Top 4 favorites for the USO. And, in the form he's in right now (we'll find out more during the USO series), he's looking like THE favorite for the US Open (which I doubt, personally).

I'd give him a better chance, at the time being, of winning the US Open, than ever before.
 
R

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
Mustard said:
Compared to Cincinnati and the US Open, it is slow. It's just that Toronto is faster than the hardcourts from early in the year.
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I see. Did anyone else find the speed of last years YE Masters slower than in years past? Just comparing the 2008 Federer Murray match to the 2009 match the difference is quite noticable on TV.
 
M

meg0529

Guest
ChrisCrocker said:
It doesn't matter, as soon as Nadal goes deep into a tournament, that tournament will be considered slow. When Murray and Nadal meet in the final, that will be the slowest court of all the slams, including the french.
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Haha so true!
 
H

hawk eye

Hall of Fame
Nadal wil take US open, only a question of time.
His game is so versatile he can beat anyone on any surface.
 
D

dmt

Hall of Fame
Ray Mercer said:
I see. Did anyone else find the speed of last years YE Masters slower than in years past? Just comparing the 2008 Federer Murray match to the 2009 match the difference is quite noticable on TV.
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i honestly didnt notice any difference in the YEC speed.
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Ray Mercer said:
I see. Did anyone else find the speed of last years YE Masters slower than in years past? Just comparing the 2008 Federer Murray match to the 2009 match the difference is quite noticable on TV.
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Yes, I noticed that and probably has something to do with the venue change from Shanghai to London. The 2006-2008 YEC was slower than the 2005 YEC that was on carpet.
 
R

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
hawk eye said:
Nadal wil take US open, only a question of time.
His game is so versatile he can beat anyone on any surface.
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Nadal's matches all look the same, slice serve out wide and huge topspin forehands. His game is brutally effective and at the moment he is the best in the world. I don't know if I would call his style versatile though as he doesn't really hit down the line backhands or backhand slice drop shots or really pick spots with his serve.
 
Last edited:
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
LeoR said:
You can't really notice it like that. Even players disagree on the subject sometimes.
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It did look slower last year compared to previous years. I don't mind one way or the other. Nadal did worse on the slower stuff at the O2 Arena than what he had done in Shanghai in the past. It's not purely speed with Nadal.
 
namelessone

namelessone

Legend
Actually it is very simple, on this surface all his strengths are denied and his weaknesses are brought out into the open:

-first of all, HC, whatever speed, is bad for his health and while he moves very well on it, he moves much better on natural surfaces.

-his topspin strokes don't bounce up as much here and many of his shots, even deep shots, effectively become sitters, for both tall and shorter guys alike.

-his serve is too spiny and thus weak for HC.

-he can't get many free points because his shots aren't really effective in USO and his serve does not provide many free points, quite the contrary, Rafa is pretty vulnerable on serve here.

-he has long swing patterns, especially on the FH side, and if someone pounds on that side, Rafa leaves the ball short many times.


Rafa needs massive luck with the draw and some changes to his fh/serve to win in NY.
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Looking at Nadal's win over Djokovic in the 2008 Beijing Olympics, it's amazing how Nadal held on to win under such pressure. Djokovic looked the more likely winner from early in the second set onwards, but Nadal waited for Djokovic's level to dip just a bit and put that extra pressure on him to hit one more ball, one more ball, and Djokovic cracked.
 
N

nereis

Semi-Pro
It is a question of movement and how the ball he hits reacts with the surface.

1. Lots of people move well on hardcourts and not nearly as well on grass or clay, eg Murray and Djokovic. That lessens Nadal's advantage in that department. Also, the hardcourts have a tendency to aggravate his tendinitis. Result, people can track down his shots easier and he can't do the same things he can do on a clay or grass court.

2. His topspin still kicks up, but they don't have the irregular bounces that throw people off anymore. On grass and clay the spin accentuates the bad bounces, on a regular surface a spinny awkward ball becomes a spinny ball. Hence people can hit more consistently off his ball without making as many errors.

Net result, Nadal has to work harder while other players don't have as hard a time as they do against him on clay or grass.
 
batz

batz

G.O.A.T.
namelessone said:
Actually it is very simple, on this surface all his strengths are denied and his weaknesses are brought out into the open:

-first of all, HC, whatever speed, is bad for his health and while he moves very well on it, he moves much better on natural surfaces.

-his topspin strokes don't bounce up as much here and many of his shots, even deep shots, effectively become sitters, for both tall and shorter guys alike.

-his serve is too spiny and thus weak for HC.

-he can't get many free points because his shots aren't really effective in USO and his serve does not provide many free points, quite the contrary, Rafa is pretty vulnerable on serve here.

-he has long swing patterns, especially on the FH side, and if someone pounds on that side, Rafa leaves the ball short many times.


Rafa needs massive luck with the draw and some changes to his fh/serve to win in NY.
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+1 This.

His 5 RG finals, 4 Wimby finals yet 0 US Open finals speak volumes. He could yet do it though.
 
L

LeoR

Banned
batz said:
+1 This.

His 5 RG finals, 4 Wimby finals and 0 US Open finals speak volumes.
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People were saying the exact same thing when Nadal did not have an Australian Open final.

But he won the tournament in 2009. Nadal has the potential to win every slam, even if the USO is the tougher, for a reason of schedule.
 
D

dmt

Hall of Fame
he also needs to skip one of the two masters 1000 events before the USO, either Cincinati or Montreal/Toronto. He cant take the pounding of all these events due to his teninditis. If he skips one of the two MS 1000 events, then he'd be better rested and fresher for the USO.
 
kanamit

kanamit

Hall of Fame
dmt said:
he also needs to skip one of the two masters 1000 events before the USO, either Cincinati or Montreal/Toronto. He cant take the pounding of all these events due to his teninditis. If he skips one of the two MS 1000 events, then he'd be better rested and fresher for the USO.
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Considering he's not likely to go that deep into the draws at these tournaments, I don't know how necessary this advice is.
 
L

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
Ray Mercer said:
It seems he is capable of great results at the other Slams but he doesn't have the game at the US Open. It's not that he has run into a player who is a bad match for his style but rather multiple players have beaten in including Ferrer, Blake, Youzhny and Del Potro, What is lacking in his game that is preventing him from winning the tournament? This is not a hate thread but rather a question as to why he has not been able to find success.
Click to expand...

His knees haven't lasted that late into the season, and, he doesn't like hard courts.
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
It has to be pointed out that Nadal had his chances against del Potro last year to gain momentum in their US Open semi final, and he failed with every chance he had. And against Murray in the 2008 US Open semi final, Nadal was a break up in the fourth set and ended up losing that set and the match with it.
 
muzza123

muzza123

Banned
Ray Mercer said:
Nadal's matches all look the same, slice serve out wide and huge topspin forehands. His game is brutally effective and at the moment he is the best in the world. I don't know if I would call his style versatile though as he doesn't really hit down the line backhands or backhand slice drop shots or really pick spots with his serve.
Click to expand...

Yep, nadal couldn't care less about aesthetics. It's all about winning the damn point when it matters most, so percentages take priority.

However, I feel he does pick his spots with his serve and it's a very versatile serve. Probably the most underrated part of his game. It's a shot which he has plenty of time to think about, and results show it's time well used.
 
U

urban

Legend
If he concentrates completely on the USO and stays fit, i see no reason, that he will not win it. In the Olympic season it was difficult, because of the extra date at Peking. He came into the USO a bit overplayed.
 
muzza123

muzza123

Banned
kanamit said:
Considering he's not likely to go that deep into the draws at these tournaments, I don't know how necessary this advice is.
Click to expand...

Well hopefully the rumours are true and he will take time out to get treatment on his other knee. Rest can only be a good thing...

Except if it causes Nadal to be match-rusty.

Nevertheless, it seems health is taking priority these days. Which is a refreshing change given the sleeveless Nadal was all about churning out match after match after match...
 
crazyups

crazyups

Professional
If Spain wins the World Cup then it's highly likely that Rafael wins U.S. Open. He is a psych case.
 
H

hawk eye

Hall of Fame
Ray Mercer said:
Nadal's matches all look the same, slice serve out wide and huge topspin forehands. His game is brutally effective and at the moment he is the best in the world. I don't know if I would call his style versatile though as he doesn't really hit down the line backhands or backhand slice drop shots or really pick spots with his serve.
Click to expand...

Firstly, Nadal does pick his pots. He plays alot af slice serves because they are effective for him on grass, but he 's very smart in changing the placement when needed.
He also hits down the line BH shots, not that many but enough to keep his opponents guessing. Today he totally wrong footed Berdych a few times like that.
No one else can turn defence into offence like him. To me that speaks volumes about his versatility.
 
Murrayfan31

Murrayfan31

Hall of Fame
Everyone is good on hardcourts. No one is good on grass (except a healthy Federer). So it's that simple. Nadal has players that play at a higher level against Nadal and Nadal can't handle it.
 
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