Low, low tensions. 30lbs feels great. 20lbs pretty good, too
- Thread starter TW Staff
- Start date
I am playin in about an hour and will give a second report, this time I'll likely play a set or two of singles.
Drak
Update on 12 mains string setup with PB9 at 48 lbs with WC Turbotwist 1.18 gauge:
Continue to like this set up, most impressed with soft feel (cupping or pocketing) and spin potential which is similar to the 35lb string job but it volleys much better for me. Played a hard hitter last night and my increased topspin bothered him and the softer strings with no trampoline allowed be to "bleed pace" rather nicely when I wanted. He hits a lot of low slices and what also surprised me was the ease to hit a low ball with an SW FH - easier and with less misses/more top than by 58 lb "normal" stringing.
Conclusion: I am thinking the higher tension (48 lbs) than the 35 lb job combined with the fewer mains and crosses is a better of both worlds combo. You can still feel the string bed absorb the ball like the 35 pounder and get the spin but there is no big adjustment on anything and the volleys are excellent, serve was fine as well.
Note: There is surprisingly little or no additional string movement with this setup.
Continue to like this set up, most impressed with soft feel (cupping or pocketing) and spin potential which is similar to the 35lb string job but it volleys much better for me. Played a hard hitter last night and my increased topspin bothered him and the softer strings with no trampoline allowed be to "bleed pace" rather nicely when I wanted. He hits a lot of low slices and what also surprised me was the ease to hit a low ball with an SW FH - easier and with less misses/more top than by 58 lb "normal" stringing.
Conclusion: I am thinking the higher tension (48 lbs) than the 35 lb job combined with the fewer mains and crosses is a better of both worlds combo. You can still feel the string bed absorb the ball like the 35 pounder and get the spin but there is no big adjustment on anything and the volleys are excellent, serve was fine as well.
Note: There is surprisingly little or no additional string movement with this setup.
Murray_fan1
Professional
Chris,
Do you prefer Cyclone to TCS ? Do you by chance know where Cyclone is manufactured ? Germany?
thebuffman
Professional
drak thanks for sharing your experience. i might have to give this a whirl myself with some technifibre black code. i wouldn't dream of using more normal natty gut string for this experiment.
I would second that and use only Poly for this experiment. I tried some old CyberFlash that I had today and so far it plays little diferent than the Turbotwist. Hit with my 4.0 daughter and she hated the way the ball bounced - made me smile. LOL
Drak
UPDATE: Still lovin and the reduced crosses/mains Poly 48 lb stringing on a PB9, have played dubs and singles now and really like it. Also, I have tried it a a Vantage 105 I have and it works just as well.
Important Conclusion: This string idea can take a more higher power frame like the Vantage 105 and in my view actually reduce power a bit and give it a much softer and IMO better playing 'feel". I uses a 14 main and 4 less crosses pattern and it played great. I encourage other o experiment with this type of configuration.
Drak
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Played a totally different player last night who I have played over the last decade frequently so we know each other's games very well, he was defininitely bothered and commented on the added spin and especially the higher bounce I was getting.
Conclusion: when other players who previously were not "bothered" by my normal shots are now having more problems that is a change worth noting and staying with. For me there is no downside and only positives from the 48 lb fewer mains/crosses set up.
Conclusion: when other players who previously were not "bothered" by my normal shots are now having more problems that is a change worth noting and staying with. For me there is no downside and only positives from the 48 lb fewer mains/crosses set up.
Been following this with interest. I've generally played LM Prestige MP's and had been lowering tension over time using all poly beds before reading this thread. I had settled in at 48 lbs. However I recently acquired two Dunlop 4D 300 Tours (trying to get a bit lighter as I am getting older) about the time I discovered this thread, so I figured it was a good time to take the plunge. I have both strung at 35 pounds, one with Black Code 17 ga. and one with Pro Hurricane 18 ga. Have not had a lot of chances to hit yet, but first impressions are good. The PH provides more pop and feels softer than the BC. (A good thing since I am prone to TE.) I'll be playing a delayed Men's 45's final from a local tourney tomorrow night against a very good 4.5 player...I'm an all-court 4.0. That will be my first "battle test", so I'll see if this gives me any advantages, either physical or mental. I'll report back on how they did in competition.
nickarnold2000
Hall of Fame
So, did you tell him about your new setup? I never tell my opponents about any new "changes" I've made unless they're good buddies!
LOL yes I did, since he's the captain of our 4.5 Senior team! he is also a very flat hitter so his benefit would likely be limited, this set up is simply wonderful for SW FH topspin hitters, slices are very good as well, volleys superb, serve about the same - perhaps modest additional kick.
I have temporarily quit with the low tension experiment. I have a tender elbow and would normally not use poly, but I figured that the combination of an arm friendly racquet (in my case the Volkl PB9 and 10 Mid) and a soft poly at very low tensions would be doable. Unfortunately that didn't turn out to be the case, as my arm has become increasingly sore over the past couple of weeks. It's a shame, because as a topspin baseliner, I just love what these poly's at low tensions do for my game.
One of the posters in this long thread mentioned how he felt that a poly at a low tension has more give, but then bottoms out. Like a soft suspension on a mountain bike. And when it bottoms out, it's harsh. I feel he's probaly right. On softer shots the poly feels really good, but when hit hard it's still harsh. It's still a poly after all.
I've just ordered a PB V1 MP, strung with X-One Biphase. This should be a really comfortable setup that provides me with plenty of power and spin. As soon as my arm is feeling better I'm going to continue with the low tension experiment with a multi/poly hybrid, to see if my arm can handle this. I'm currently thinking of Klip Detonator.
One of the posters in this long thread mentioned how he felt that a poly at a low tension has more give, but then bottoms out. Like a soft suspension on a mountain bike. And when it bottoms out, it's harsh. I feel he's probaly right. On softer shots the poly feels really good, but when hit hard it's still harsh. It's still a poly after all.
I've just ordered a PB V1 MP, strung with X-One Biphase. This should be a really comfortable setup that provides me with plenty of power and spin. As soon as my arm is feeling better I'm going to continue with the low tension experiment with a multi/poly hybrid, to see if my arm can handle this. I'm currently thinking of Klip Detonator.
jonahnaturals
Rookie
I tried pro hurricane tour at 35 pounds in a volkl power bridge 9, and I did find that it provided good spin with decent control. Stab slices on both wings flew on me. Serves weren't much different, but that might be a capability issue on my shoulder's part.
I am usiing Turbotwist at 48 lbs and having no arm issues - maybe it does not "bottom out" at this tension and leaving some mains and crosses out does still give that plush/cupping feel.
Note I can play with TT at 58 full job with no issues, and I had major shouler surgery a yr and a half ago.
Drak
Tennis_Monk
Hall of Fame
I dont know if i can throw another 30$ for a string job but wanted to ask you guys this question.
I have a spare Babolat Pure drive+ that was strung at 55 with Lux Alu Rough. This was strung about a month ago. I am thinking that tension would drop on strings as time goes by and may be i will be at 48 lbs mark that some posters have indicated. Does that seem right or have i overcalculated tension drop?
I have a spare Babolat Pure drive+ that was strung at 55 with Lux Alu Rough. This was strung about a month ago. I am thinking that tension would drop on strings as time goes by and may be i will be at 48 lbs mark that some posters have indicated. Does that seem right or have i overcalculated tension drop?
I string my own so playin around with this stuff is fun and not too costly. Keep in mind that starting at 48 will result in lower tensions as time goes by, so you starting at 55 IMO does not give the same effect. And also keep in mind I am leaving out 4 main strings (only have 12) and 2 crosses which makes a significant difference as well..
Drak
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OldButGame
Hall of Fame
....Does tension drop just as a function of 'time'.....even if idle???....or do the strings 'die' too??/....(poly in particular).......or are we talking about time....as in 'time used in play'???:-?
tension usuually has and 8-15% drop after in 24 hrs after stringing depending on the string. Some strings like gut just lock in afterninit9ial loss and retain playability for a long time, others like Poly eventually go dead in anywhere from 5-20 hrs per most folks. There are also variables like rackets and the player.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
I haven't read the whole thread. But, I'm curious if anyone has tried this low tension approach with all synthetic and/or natural gut and compared it to polyester. If so, I'd love to hear how it compared with poly.
Thanks!
Thanks!
TW's Chris tried Gut at 30 pounds. One page back I believe.
Others have tried some nylons, with lackluster results.
The whole point of this, I think, is that poly at 30 pounds is about as stiff as nylon at 50-60 pounds. So stringing poly makes some sense. Plays good too.
1st Match Results
This is a follow-up to my earlier post. I played my first real match against a 4.5 player indoors last night. Granted, I had not played a lot in several weeks due to a foot injury, but nonetheless I noticed a few things. I started playing with the racquet strung with Pro Hurricane 18 @ 35 lbs. Serves had very good pop and in my first few service games I won some easy points off it. When I got to the net I was pleasantly surprised at how well it volleyed, given that many posters on this thread find the opposite. Overheads were good as well, and the PH felt really good on my arm. But I found I was not able to generate the consistent groundstrokes I had found when just practicing this setup with my kids. Whether the poly was already losing some resilience or my mind was stuck on trying to create more topspin with this setup and thus varying my normal stroke, I found myself dumping in the net or hitting long over and over. I could never get into any kind of groove. When practicing I had experienced no difficulties getting into a very consistent rhythm from the baseline, hitting high over the net and generating good topspin to bring it in. I’m generally a flatter hitter, but making some adjustments in grip and stroke worked well. But in real competition, where the opponent was making me run, varying his shots, pace, direction, spin, etc., I had a really hard time figuring out how to counter. When I went for touch it fell in the net. When I tried to hit out it went long. I switched to the other racquet, strung with Black Code 17 @ 35 lbs about three-quarters of the way through the match. It definitely had less pop, which I thought would help in allowing me to hit out. But I found that I could not easily block back returns (especially backhand), as they would either go in the net or fall well short in my opponent’s court…setting him up for easy put-aways. I had to be very aggressive on every shot, which demanded too much focus and caused even more inconsistencies, so I went back to the PH. My backhand is my weaker shot, so I end up using a lot of slice. My opponent figured out pretty quickly that pounding that side would mean a weak slice return or an over-hit topspin attempt.
I was pretty excited about how I practiced with poly at 35 lbs., but pretty disappointed when it came to match play. I’m an all-courter, so I need to be able to execute all aspects reasonably well to stay in the point, but it felt like I could never get predictability or control over my shots, and consequently I could not dictate or maintain consistency. I’m not giving up yet, as I’d like to see if a little time with this setup will allow me to adjust to its requirements. Looks like I’m going to have to experiment with tension and some different polys as well, so if anyone has found a string that really responds to this tension, I’m open. Time will tell.
This is a follow-up to my earlier post. I played my first real match against a 4.5 player indoors last night. Granted, I had not played a lot in several weeks due to a foot injury, but nonetheless I noticed a few things. I started playing with the racquet strung with Pro Hurricane 18 @ 35 lbs. Serves had very good pop and in my first few service games I won some easy points off it. When I got to the net I was pleasantly surprised at how well it volleyed, given that many posters on this thread find the opposite. Overheads were good as well, and the PH felt really good on my arm. But I found I was not able to generate the consistent groundstrokes I had found when just practicing this setup with my kids. Whether the poly was already losing some resilience or my mind was stuck on trying to create more topspin with this setup and thus varying my normal stroke, I found myself dumping in the net or hitting long over and over. I could never get into any kind of groove. When practicing I had experienced no difficulties getting into a very consistent rhythm from the baseline, hitting high over the net and generating good topspin to bring it in. I’m generally a flatter hitter, but making some adjustments in grip and stroke worked well. But in real competition, where the opponent was making me run, varying his shots, pace, direction, spin, etc., I had a really hard time figuring out how to counter. When I went for touch it fell in the net. When I tried to hit out it went long. I switched to the other racquet, strung with Black Code 17 @ 35 lbs about three-quarters of the way through the match. It definitely had less pop, which I thought would help in allowing me to hit out. But I found that I could not easily block back returns (especially backhand), as they would either go in the net or fall well short in my opponent’s court…setting him up for easy put-aways. I had to be very aggressive on every shot, which demanded too much focus and caused even more inconsistencies, so I went back to the PH. My backhand is my weaker shot, so I end up using a lot of slice. My opponent figured out pretty quickly that pounding that side would mean a weak slice return or an over-hit topspin attempt.
I was pretty excited about how I practiced with poly at 35 lbs., but pretty disappointed when it came to match play. I’m an all-courter, so I need to be able to execute all aspects reasonably well to stay in the point, but it felt like I could never get predictability or control over my shots, and consequently I could not dictate or maintain consistency. I’m not giving up yet, as I’d like to see if a little time with this setup will allow me to adjust to its requirements. Looks like I’m going to have to experiment with tension and some different polys as well, so if anyone has found a string that really responds to this tension, I’m open. Time will tell.
12 main string 48 lb PB9 update: Starting to not play as well after about 10 hrs with TurboTwist, cut out string and restrung, back to great playability, can't tell you how much I like the set up, does everything very well and the "feel/pocketing" is tremendous. I would encourage anyone who has experimented with looser tensions to try a variation of this on their frames, assuming they aren't worried abouck racket warranty.
One PB9 note: One of the few things I did not like about this frame was the small sweetspot, the fewer mains and lower tension really changed that.
Drak
One PB9 note: One of the few things I did not like about this frame was the small sweetspot, the fewer mains and lower tension really changed that.
Drak
I think this will be my first post on this board, so hey everyone. I am just coming back to tennis after 7 years off and only just received my Babolat Pure Storm Ltd GT the other day. I had horrible problems with my arm since I was a kid (so basically, 28 years of on and off tennis). Believe it or not, as a teenager I used the Wilson ProStaff 6.0 85 strung with Kevlar at 68 to 72 pounds. NO WONDER I destroyed my arm. Softer strings just broke too often, though admittedly I didn't know back then how much strings made a difference on your arm (this was 20 years ago, btw).
After reading this thread I was looking forward to trying it. It had a hybrid of Topspin Cyber Blue 17 and Sweet 17 in the crosses at 58m/60c. I tell you this because I had to cut the strings out because they were too loose and moving around too much.
Today I played with a low tension for the first time. I did a full bed of Wilson Enduro Tour 17 at 40 pounds.
Sadly, I think the experiment ends here as my arm hurt MUCH more than in the last 6 weeks in my "come back." I think it was due to the increased vibration. I put a vibration damper in but it wasn't enough. The thing rattled like mad.
For me the main goal of trying this was to help my arm. What's funny is that 58ish was too loose, but 40 wasn't THAT loose for me. Yet my arm hurt much more.
I'm not all that tempted to keep trying out these tensions as even though I string my own rackets I don't like cutting out strings after one hit.
Any suggestions on low tensions that won't hurt my arm? I'm thinking of just stringing normally. I have Gosen Polylon 17 and Forten Sweet 16 and was going to try 55 main and 60 crosses.
After reading this thread I was looking forward to trying it. It had a hybrid of Topspin Cyber Blue 17 and Sweet 17 in the crosses at 58m/60c. I tell you this because I had to cut the strings out because they were too loose and moving around too much.
Today I played with a low tension for the first time. I did a full bed of Wilson Enduro Tour 17 at 40 pounds.
Sadly, I think the experiment ends here as my arm hurt MUCH more than in the last 6 weeks in my "come back." I think it was due to the increased vibration. I put a vibration damper in but it wasn't enough. The thing rattled like mad.
For me the main goal of trying this was to help my arm. What's funny is that 58ish was too loose, but 40 wasn't THAT loose for me. Yet my arm hurt much more.
I'm not all that tempted to keep trying out these tensions as even though I string my own rackets I don't like cutting out strings after one hit.
Any suggestions on low tensions that won't hurt my arm? I'm thinking of just stringing normally. I have Gosen Polylon 17 and Forten Sweet 16 and was going to try 55 main and 60 crosses.
Snipereyez
New User
Purist, I have both the PS ltd and PS ltd GT and string them with WC Silverstring @ 38lbs. Any lower and my rackets exibit the vibration you mention. The PS ltd is pretty picky with strings so I would try a different combination of full POLY @ low tensions before giving up. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Thanks. Maybe I'll try the Gosen Polylon. But should I go up or down to try to reduce the vibration? I'm thinking up in tension.
One thing we all seem to be leaving out is what kind of stringer we're using. 40 on a crank machine vs. 40 on a constant pull could be very different. And from what I'm reading at this low tension a few pounds makes a big difference.
I'm using an Eketelon H but use a method to try to approximate a constant pull stringer. Basically I do a double pull method with 3 to 4 seconds between pulls.
Any thoughts on this?
Silverstring (soft copoly) and Polylon (stiff 1st gen) are very different strings, but at low tensions they appear quite similar in lab tests. At fast swingspeeds they are nearly the same - losing about the same tension, being about as stiff and deflecting about as much as each other. However, Silverstring has better pop (energy return). I guess that's what we're paying for.
At high tensions Silverstring has both more pop (energy return) and is much softer (stiffness) - so it will be significantly more powerful - but at low tensions Polylon might be the budget king.
Edit: Just noticed that Prince Tournament Poly is about identical to Polylon, so there's another budget option for low tensions.
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ronalditop
Hall of Fame
I don't understand. How can a poly at low tensions have less energy return than at high tensions? Is Energy return = Power?
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OldButGame
Hall of Fame
This is a good point,...i have 2 PSLs (nonGTs),.....the first had a full bed of Blackcode 17,.....@ 50lbs,.......and it was a thing of beauty,....the second one.....(experimenting) i strung w/ Kirschbaum PLII,..18g....52lbs,....and i was very disappointed,...not nearly the control,power, of the first. I didnt get the vibration issue. But the point is the racquet probably IS very string sensitive,....:neutral:
I can try that out. But now that I think about it, why are each of us all trying to reinvent the wheel? Has anyone seen a thread on TT in which people talk about their favorite strings in this racket and why? I'd love that - that way we don't have to waste hundreds of dollars trying to find a string AND tension combination 
I can try that out. But now that I think about it, why are each of us all trying to reinvent the wheel? Has anyone seen a thread on TT in which people talk about their favorite strings in this racket and why? I'd love that - that way we don't have to waste hundreds of dollars trying to find a string AND tension combination
That's the risk of posting on the internet when you're still half asleep. Though this thread is mostly about low tensions, I'm pretty sure there are MANY posts in here with exactly what I was looking for.
Don't Let It Bounce
Hall of Fame
There have been subjective reports upthread of arm pain when using co-poly's even at these very low tensions, and the stiffness graph posted by TW Prof on p. 9 seems to explain it:
However, when I use the TW String Performance Database to compare the stiffness of all co-poly's (fast swing, 40 lb tension), quite a few (mostly Polyfibre strings) are down in the 120's, and Polyfibre Poly Hightec 18 actually blows away the competition at 109! (My elbow salivates at the thought. Good thing I'm wearing short sleeves.)
Were the softer strings not yet tested at the time the graph was made, or have I misused the String Performance Database?
At 30 lb, only one co-poly is as low as 180 stiffness, and most are still over 200. Ouch.
However, when I use the TW String Performance Database to compare the stiffness of all co-poly's (fast swing, 40 lb tension), quite a few (mostly Polyfibre strings) are down in the 120's, and Polyfibre Poly Hightec 18 actually blows away the competition at 109! (My elbow salivates at the thought. Good thing I'm wearing short sleeves.)
Were the softer strings not yet tested at the time the graph was made, or have I misused the String Performance Database?
One thing to keep in mind when comparing polys to non-polys using the TW University database is that the tests are done AFTER initial tension loss and AFTER 20 impacts meant to simulate a 120 mph serve. Because polys lose so much tension the comparison charts end up making the polys appear softer than they are prior to tension loss.
To do accurate comparisons I suggest sorting your results first by "actual tension", which is the tension recorded after the impacts, and second by "stiffness". Then you can go down the list and compare stiffness at actual tensions rather than the tensions the strings were strung at.
The 20 impact procedure seems to reflect rather heavy use. Something like the tension loss that players start talking about their strings "going dead". This is really useful information about tension loss but might not be the best for evaluating a string's performance characteristics. (The USRSA tests used the same procedure but only did 10 impacts. The TW Professor did most of the USRSA tests in his former job as head of that outfit.)
But it's still possible to get a good picture of how the string will play for you by looking at the numbers for 40 pounds and 50 pounds if you are going to string at 40. The numbers for 50 pounds will reflect how the string will play in the early hours of play and the numbers for 40 will reflect how the string will play after 10+ hours or so, I reckon.
"Power" is a combination of energy return + stiffness.
High stiffness means that more of the impact of the collision will go into ball deformation, which reduced the bounce of the ball, thus reducing the speed of the ball.
Low stiffness will deform the ball less and result in more ball speed.
Whatever energy doesn't go into the ball goes into the strings, and that's where energy return comes in.
As you noticed, low tensions have low stiffness, but correspondingly lower energy return. But the relationship isn't 1:1, so some strings are more powerful at lower tensions and others at higher tensions. This is the basis for string "power curves" that sometimes get talked about.
Gut, for instance, is more or less the same stiffness (lower than any other material) across the tension range. This is one of the unique characteristics of gut: it is soft (not stiff) at low tensions and high tensions. But just like other strings it has higher energy return at higher tensions. So a gut will actually provide more power at high tensions.
Poly and nylon have a more linear stiffness/energy relationship. For these strings it's harder to pin down which tension they are most powerful at and it probably varies a bit string to string. If you look at the Professor's graph posted by Don't let it Bounce, above, you'll see the stiffness curve for poly to flatten out a bit at 30 pounds. I suspect that that is where most polys are most powerful.
TW Professor did a post further back in this thread explaining what I've just done, probably much more clearly. If you search for him in this thread you'll find it. If I had remembered I could do that I wouldn't have written this post
I'm a convert....
Shortly after purchasing two Volkl PB10 mids (from TW) to replace my old "fishnet" C10 Pro a few months back, I saw this thread about low tension with poly strings. After observing developments for a couple of months, I decided to give it a go. I ordered the rackets with X1 Biphase 18 at 55/53 which I thought was OK for me. When it came time to restring, I kept one on X1 at the same tension and the other frame I had strung with Black Code 18 at 35lbs. I wasn't confident of going all the way down to 30lbs. Prior to this I had never tried a poly - I am not a string breaker and I don't play with a lot of spin.
The first 2 hours of play took some adjustment. The stringbed was quite forgiving, more forgiving actually than with the X1 at 55lbs - the sweetspot seemed a lot larger. It was particularly larger along the longitudinal axis of the racket head which allowed me to make more use of the top of the stringbed when I wanted to take pace off the ball.
The other big difference was that the low tension poly felt a lot better when going full out on every shot. In fact it seemed to me that I needed to swing a lot harder to generate pace on the ball vs the X1. However the harder I swung, the better it felt at contact. I was definitely able to impart more spin on the ball simply because I was swinging harder and as such I was actually able to keep the ball in most of the time. On serves, the difference in spin as well as pace was quite marked - much better than with the X1. The one big downside intially was that I had no control on my sliced single handed backhand. The ball was flying high and out. Blocked shots were also difficult to control as the ball trajectory seemed to be higher than with the X1. Due to the difficulties with the sliced backhand, after the first couple of hours I wasn't fully convinced that it was going to work for me.
During this time I also alternated every 1/2 hour with the other frame with the X1 for a back to back comparison. What I found was that the racket head angles required to keep the ball in the court, particularly on forehand groundstrokes (I play with an Eastern grip, moderate topspin) were quite different with the two strings. When going from the Black Code 30lbs back to the X1, my forehand shots were landing short or hitting the net. When I got my shots dialled back to the X1, I found that I was actually hitting the ball out of court more often with the X1 than with the Black Code.
Interestingly I didn't find any need to an adjustment with volleys.
Eventually after about 6 hours on the Black Code at 30lbs, I found that I was simply getting better results with it than with the X1 at 55lbs. The problem with blocked shots had gone away as I adapted to the string job. The Black Code lost some of its initial springiness and I found that I preferred the less lively, but still relatively cushioned, response after several hours of play in this set. In the end I cut out the X1 and have strung the other frame with Black Code at 35lbs as well.
The Black Code at 35lbs has changed the way I play - I swing out a lot more now than before as I have more confidence that the ball will land in the court no matter how hard I swing. So my overall level of play has improved.
What I have found however is that I like the older string job better than the new set of Black Code. I hope that the new set will settled down after the first few hours of play.
I have never used a vibration dampener on my strings and have experienced the higher stringbed vibration described by some of the posts here. The older string job which at this stage is at a lower tension vibrates more than the new one. However the vibration has not presented a problem for me and in any case the PB10 mid is quite a well damped racket.
So I am now a convert to low tension poly. I will probably try out 30lbs on my next restring to see if the slightly lower tension would work better.
Thank you to all of you here who have posted about your experiences.
Shortly after purchasing two Volkl PB10 mids (from TW) to replace my old "fishnet" C10 Pro a few months back, I saw this thread about low tension with poly strings. After observing developments for a couple of months, I decided to give it a go. I ordered the rackets with X1 Biphase 18 at 55/53 which I thought was OK for me. When it came time to restring, I kept one on X1 at the same tension and the other frame I had strung with Black Code 18 at 35lbs. I wasn't confident of going all the way down to 30lbs. Prior to this I had never tried a poly - I am not a string breaker and I don't play with a lot of spin.
The first 2 hours of play took some adjustment. The stringbed was quite forgiving, more forgiving actually than with the X1 at 55lbs - the sweetspot seemed a lot larger. It was particularly larger along the longitudinal axis of the racket head which allowed me to make more use of the top of the stringbed when I wanted to take pace off the ball.
The other big difference was that the low tension poly felt a lot better when going full out on every shot. In fact it seemed to me that I needed to swing a lot harder to generate pace on the ball vs the X1. However the harder I swung, the better it felt at contact. I was definitely able to impart more spin on the ball simply because I was swinging harder and as such I was actually able to keep the ball in most of the time. On serves, the difference in spin as well as pace was quite marked - much better than with the X1. The one big downside intially was that I had no control on my sliced single handed backhand. The ball was flying high and out. Blocked shots were also difficult to control as the ball trajectory seemed to be higher than with the X1. Due to the difficulties with the sliced backhand, after the first couple of hours I wasn't fully convinced that it was going to work for me.
During this time I also alternated every 1/2 hour with the other frame with the X1 for a back to back comparison. What I found was that the racket head angles required to keep the ball in the court, particularly on forehand groundstrokes (I play with an Eastern grip, moderate topspin) were quite different with the two strings. When going from the Black Code 30lbs back to the X1, my forehand shots were landing short or hitting the net. When I got my shots dialled back to the X1, I found that I was actually hitting the ball out of court more often with the X1 than with the Black Code.
Interestingly I didn't find any need to an adjustment with volleys.
Eventually after about 6 hours on the Black Code at 30lbs, I found that I was simply getting better results with it than with the X1 at 55lbs. The problem with blocked shots had gone away as I adapted to the string job. The Black Code lost some of its initial springiness and I found that I preferred the less lively, but still relatively cushioned, response after several hours of play in this set. In the end I cut out the X1 and have strung the other frame with Black Code at 35lbs as well.
The Black Code at 35lbs has changed the way I play - I swing out a lot more now than before as I have more confidence that the ball will land in the court no matter how hard I swing. So my overall level of play has improved.
What I have found however is that I like the older string job better than the new set of Black Code. I hope that the new set will settled down after the first few hours of play.
I have never used a vibration dampener on my strings and have experienced the higher stringbed vibration described by some of the posts here. The older string job which at this stage is at a lower tension vibrates more than the new one. However the vibration has not presented a problem for me and in any case the PB10 mid is quite a well damped racket.
So I am now a convert to low tension poly. I will probably try out 30lbs on my next restring to see if the slightly lower tension would work better.
Thank you to all of you here who have posted about your experiences.
Don't Let It Bounce
Hall of Fame
Corners, the reply in post #642 is most helpful. Thanks.
Cool. Cheers.
Do you mean that the blackcode was landing longer in comparison to the X1? If so, that would suggest the low-tension poly was bouncing the ball on a higher trajectory than the X1, which would make sense."
I've found volleys to be fine as well. I'm playing poly at 30 in a mid now, but before that I was using gut/poly and gut/Recoil hybrids around 50 so maybe I've got used to it on the volley. I haven't really played any hard hitters though.
Thanks for the thorough review.
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Power Player
Bionic Poster
If 37#s feels a bit too powerful in a poly mains/sgut hybrid, where would you reccomend stringing next? mid 40s?
Do you have the syngut in there for comfort or power?
If comfort, give full poly a try at 30 pounds. I think you'll be surprised at the comfort.
If power, then you're better off going poly/syngut at your normal tension rather than this super low stuff.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
I'd say more about feel. I like the crisper feel of Wilson Stamina. Right now the string in it is a multi, but I wanted to go back and try syngut because I prefer that.
I try to avoid full poly due to the feel of the bed. Also Chris stated that when he was hybriding a syngut and poly, that 30#s was too low. I see a lot of pros are hybriding in the high 40s with gut and poly so I was thinking I could get away with 45#s or so.
Power is not really a huge issue for me. But I like that at low tensions I can still swing out and control the ball with spin. I also can hit harder with less effort if I get jammed or out of position. Keeps me from hitting weak returns, which can be a problem at 60#s.
I try to avoid full poly due to the feel of the bed. Also Chris stated that when he was hybriding a syngut and poly, that 30#s was too low. I see a lot of pros are hybriding in the high 40s with gut and poly so I was thinking I could get away with 45#s or so.
Power is not really a huge issue for me. But I like that at low tensions I can still swing out and control the ball with spin. I also can hit harder with less effort if I get jammed or out of position. Keeps me from hitting weak returns, which can be a problem at 60#s.
I've done gut/poly at 50 and 40 and gut/syngut at 50 (a bit wild). Poly at 30 is fine. But my feeling has been that poly/syngut doesn't provide the spin of full poly or gut/poly. That's why I suggested going higher for control. But really, I haven't tried poly/syngut enough to know for sure.
Maybe someone else can help.
Maybe someone else can help.
What may interest some folks is that if they have a frame they like but feel it's too powerful lets say on groundstrokes, they string it looser with a full Poly and the energy return becomes a good bit less. The lower Tension (40 or lower) will also soften up the sting bed the most and give them that plusher feel. A good option to try before switching frames.
Drak
Drak
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Corners I saw you posted earlier that Federer strings at 40 pounds. Where did you hear that? I though he was in the high 40's, low 50s with a gut/poly hybrid.
Anyway, I have some Dunlop poly reels sitting here, so I am going to string up a stick at 35#s full poly and then do a Poly/Gut hybrid at 44/48.
For now, I will keep playing with my poly/multi stick strung up at around 37#s (after some tension loss from 40) and use that as a baseline.
Anyway, I have some Dunlop poly reels sitting here, so I am going to string up a stick at 35#s full poly and then do a Poly/Gut hybrid at 44/48.
For now, I will keep playing with my poly/multi stick strung up at around 37#s (after some tension loss from 40) and use that as a baseline.
PED
Legend
PP, you are correct, Fed is more like the 50 or 48lb level from all I've seen.
What did you string your APD's at when you used them?
I've been trying them for the last month in the XL length. I like them but I've ended up stringing them about 8lbs less than I did with the YT Rad Pro. I'm at 52/50 (versus 59/57 in the RP)now and am going to try 50/48 next week.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
APDCS for me were usually around 56#s full poly. It got old after a while. If I still used them, I would defintley try low tension. I think you really benefit from the low tension with player's sticks though. You have all that flex, and it just becomes a massive spin stick that you can still control.
I hit yesterday with a 5.0 slicer and dicer. He had serious problems with my shots compared to usual. He could not chop them as easily and they kicked really hard so his timing was off. I also could get sidespin so the ball would not sit where he thought it would. He is a great player and adjusted to it after a while. But the on court temp was also 115, and after 35 minutes, I could not move my feet that well, so my shots got bad and he and I just tapped out after a while.
Slice backhands are really lethal with this setup. You can drop shot people so well. Compared to my usual high tension, I had a lot more touch.
I may play today for an hour or so. If I get the time, I will restring full poly at 35#s and see how that goes. I have Dunlop Explosiv.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
^^^
Me? I am using a 11.6oz 300 Tour right now. It's a real nice weight.
One thing I noticed on the low tension. It really helps to have your swing dialed up to when you drop the racquet, the tip is pointing down on both forehand and backhand. It gives you a ton of control. It is also easier to pick low bouncing balls and throw them with this motion and tension..most likely due to the dwell time.
Me? I am using a 11.6oz 300 Tour right now. It's a real nice weight.
One thing I noticed on the low tension. It really helps to have your swing dialed up to when you drop the racquet, the tip is pointing down on both forehand and backhand. It gives you a ton of control. It is also easier to pick low bouncing balls and throw them with this motion and tension..most likely due to the dwell time.
ManuGinobili
Hall of Fame
In the interview with TW, Nate Ferguson mentioned between 44 and 50 I don't remember... he also says Fed comes into a match with some rackets a few pounds higher and some a few pounds lower