Critique My Serve (video)

C

crystal_clear

Professional
Jake Speed said:
No you may not!

The reasons are long and complicated.

Do as I request and you will soon see quick improvement, my guess, in less than one hour. Then, your interest in "why" will go away. I cannot help you if you have little confidence in what I ask.

You have other issues that should be immediately changed, but they are a bit more complicated. I will explain them though, when the time comes. You must make these small changes first.

You have nothing to loose and plenty to gain!

I will say this, continue along the lines of which your going and your serve will not improve greatly. You may also be in line for an injury. Especially if you start serving harder.

I see no advice, from others, that is of any immediate benefit. In fact, some advise is incredibly incorrect.

Watch how my advice will be attacked.

One change at a time, starting with the easiest first.

Now don't think, just go do it!

JS #1
Click to expand...

ha, I am so scary. :)
Thank you JS for taking time to give me the advice. I feel more motivated to make changes if I understand the mechnism behind it. I might not fully understand "Do bend the racquet arm at the elbow, but don't lead with it by bringing it back. Doing this puts the elbow behind the body." I thought low elbow and behind the body is the right way to increase swing path before contact. I am confused.:confused:
 
C

crystal_clear

Professional
Ajtat411 said:
Per the sample photos:

1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10

ljubicicservebehind_3.jpg


My suggestion relates to photo 3 and LeeD relates to photo 7.
Click to expand...

Thank you Ajtat, I love those pictures. Now I could understand what LeeD meant. Good observation LeeD. I am wrong that I thought I need to straight up arm with racket to reach the highest contact point. Thanks LeeD.
 
C

crystal_clear

Professional
junbumkim said:
Very good motion.

One suggestion I have is just to slow down that tossing arm a little bit. So, try to make it a little slower and smooth when you transfer the weight forward..

In other words, try to slow down when you lift your front toes up and step down. Right now you lift it up, and quickly step it down and it looks like you are rushing to get into the motion..
Click to expand...

Thanks. Perhaps I should toss higher to have more time not to rush?
 
J

Jake Speed

Banned
crystal_clear said:
ha, I am so scary. :)
Thank you JS for taking time to give me the advice. I feel more motivated to make changes if I understand the mechnism behind it. I might not fully understand "Do bend the racquet arm at the elbow, but don't lead with it by bringing it back. Doing this puts the elbow behind the body." I thought low elbow and behind the body is the right way to increase swing path before contact. I am confused.:confused:
Click to expand...

Your not reading my words correctly and your taking bad advice and using it. You've been using bad advice too long. CHANGE!

Just use your eyes, you HAVE to use your eyes to see the mistakes you are making. Look at your video, s l o w it d o w n, you can clearly see you lead with your elbow.

I cannot help you if you fight me and continue to believe information that's incorrect.

OH! And you should NOT let "gravity" do anything!!

There's a level of maturity that has to exist before instruction can be appreciated and used. Happens even with young children.

I'm not sure you have that?

You also shouldn't be responding to every reply. You should be ignoring these replies; "weak" advice will only confuse you and you will accomplishing nothing. There will be no progress just your repeated mistakes.

Look at the results three years of repeated efforts have gotten others on this Forum. Almost 300 tips! Guy's killing himself trying to get a better serve and he can't. Something ain't right? I can fix it in a week, but the guy won't listen. I'm his "idiot." Nice of him to say this to someone who offered help.

Their more concerned with my "credentials," and not knowing who I am is killing them. All they can do is respond with adversity. LOL, LOL, MY WORDS ARE MY CREDENTIALS, and there not like anyone else's, even your so called Pros!

Sure, I know it, I don't belong here. But just maybe, maybe I can help one person?

You got three years to waste?

Unfortunately, and believe me, the Forum is doing you more harm than good, and guess what, these guys know it.

Maybe your parents can help you figure this out?

JS #1
 
A

Ajtat411

Semi-Pro
So what is wrong with having help from gravity during the racket drop/takeback? It seems to get my arm looser at takeback.

It's pretty tough to have just someone ignore everyone that is trying to help and believe you after your 100 or so posts.

In many of my post I indicate that people should have a pro/coach that can lead them in the right direction.

It sounds like you're the one replying with adversity and being rude. I think your condesending attitude is the reason why you're getting so much flak from everyone. You may be a big shot coach/pro but it doesn't mean you can be a snot about it.

We're not telling her to do anything, we're just providing critique she has asked for.

I think that there are just numerous things that she can work on so there is a lot of advice that has been given.

Like I said early, Crystal should have a coach that can guide her through the improvement process but she will have to be willing to pay for that help.

On this free forum, you have to try different things that you believe are relative. That is the downfall of free information. There are a few pro coaches on these forums but I doubt that they have enough time/energy to go through the whole process with one person for FREE.

Occasionally, you'll get detailed information from a reputable coach/pro on certain topics, but not on every single thread about "Critque my Serve", "Fix my forehand" or "Fix my backhand".

Jake, maybe you can prepare a master thread on the process of improving one's serve, forehand, backhand, overhead, vollies, half-vollies, etc so people can go through the process correctly by a certified pro/coach that you are.

This way we won't have to answer the same hundreds of threads about the same topic and potentially lead people astray.

We know what we know and don't know what we don't. We are trying to help each other improve. Some of us are cheap and don't have personal coaches and some do. Without a paid personal coach, the TT forums are the best source of free information we have.
 
Last edited:
arche3

arche3

Banned
Hah!
So true isn't it?
*Arche3 theory of tt video posts:
For every video posted on tt without even looking at the video I can assume with a 75% chance of certainty the poster of said video is of Asian decent.
dozu said:
arche3 - your theory is true.
Click to expand...
 
dozu

dozu

Banned
arche3 said:
Hah!
So true isn't it?
*Arche3 theory of tt video posts:
For every video posted on tt without even looking at the video I can assume with a 75% chance of certainty the poster of said video is of Asian decent.
Click to expand...

I think this goes hand in hand with the habit of library study.... Asians do tend to be very technical, that's why we are so good at diving, gymnastics, table tennis, badminton, all the stuff that relies more on techniques than on brutal force... some of my non-Asian golf buddies have made comments to me along the lines of 'you Asians are so precise'.

Typically Asians are indeed smaller and slower, so will need to rely on better techniques to compete.

Just my theory on your theory.

and Lee would be your quintessential example right here - here he is, with a small (an understatement) frame, but his mind is overflown with technicals, so much so that he had to let some of that stuff out on this forum or his brain will explode and ruin all that graceful Fabio hair.
 
Last edited:
C

crystal_clear

Professional
I don't care much if you have "credentials" as long as you could give me the advice with explanation. I agree that not all advice is "strong" and how I distinguish "strong" and "weak" advice is based on the explanation: the more detailed the better. I reply to everyone's response because I respect their time and effort trying to help me improve. I feel respected if you could answer my question. It is hard to do changes if I don't understand your point.
That's different between kids and adult students. BTW, I am an adult.

I understand you might feel I don't trust you if I ask you questions. I ask my own coach questions too when I take lessons in summer time which is in a couple of weeks hopefully. Now go back to my question for the third and the last time.

"You lead with your elbow.” -- Are you referring to picture 3 by Ajtat? I should lead with racket?

Jake Speed said:
Your not reading my words correctly and your taking bad advice and using it. You've been using bad advice too long. CHANGE!

Just use your eyes, you HAVE to use your eyes to see the mistakes you are making. Look at your video, s l o w it d o w n, you can clearly see you lead with your elbow.

I cannot help you if you fight me and continue to believe information that's incorrect.

OH! And you should NOT let "gravity" do anything!!

There's a level of maturity that has to exist before instruction can be appreciated and used. Happens even with young children.

I'm not sure you have that?

You also shouldn't be responding to every reply. You should be ignoring these replies; "weak" advice will only confuse you and you will accomplishing nothing. There will be no progress just your repeated mistakes.

Look at the results three years of repeated efforts have gotten others on this Forum. Almost 300 tips! Guy's killing himself trying to get a better serve and he can't. Something ain't right? I can fix it in a week, but the guy won't listen. I'm his "idiot." Nice of him to say this to someone who offered help.

Their more concerned with my "credentials," and not knowing who I am is killing them. All they can do is respond with adversity. LOL, LOL, MY WORDS ARE MY CREDENTIALS, and there not like anyone else's, even your so called Pros!

Sure, I know it, I don't belong here. But just maybe, maybe I can help one person?

You got three years to waste?

Unfortunately, and believe me, the Forum is doing you more harm than good, and guess what, these guys know it.

Maybe your parents can help you figure this out?

JS #1
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
J

Jake Speed

Banned
"You lead with your elbow.” -- Are you referring to picture 3 by Ajtat? I should lead with racket?
Click to expand...

Just look at your video. Clearly you can "see" you lead with your elbow.

Just stop doing it.

You're already doing what we call, an "abbreviated" motion. Which is what I like and teach. (At least in the beginning.) I do allow students to "drift" onto their "own style." In fact, I encourage this.

Put both hands together, stand or be sideways to the net, then raise the toss hand and raise the racquet hand pointing the racquet skyward.

Keep in mind, I'm not with you to see your practice, i.e. "real time."

So you must Post another video.

JS #1
 
Djokovicfan4life

Djokovicfan4life

Legend
Jake, you posted advice that is probably good. But Crystal is an adult (you are familiar with these people, right?) She wants to know why before she accepts the advice of some random guy who is throwing out dogmatic assertions left and right. And if you don't/can't explain why, she's going to assume that you're full of it.

If you were teaching a child, it'd be different. They'd want to play well as soon as possible within the fundementals and you'd teach them that way. Surely a coach capable of "doing magic" with instruction knows that the method differs slightly for different people?
 
J

Jake Speed

Banned
Djokovicfan4life said:
Jake, you posted advice that is probably good. But Crystal is an adult (you are familiar with these people, right?) She wants to know why before she accepts the advice of some random guy who is throwing out dogmatic assertions left and right. And if you don't/can't explain why, she's going to assume that you're full of it.

If you were teaching a child, it'd be different. They'd want to play well as soon as possible within the fundementals and you'd teach them that way. Surely a coach capable of "doing magic" with instruction knows that the method differs slightly for different people?
Click to expand...

Gee, Why don't you let Ms. Crystal decide for herself. A big girl.

Hey! You demand credentials from me, but what abut the other 500 individuals spitting out advice?

Look, I don't have the time to explain "everything," and, believe it or not, there's good reason for it. Wait and see.

In the meantime you shouldn't be so judgmental.

It creates bad spirit!

JS #1
 
Djokovicfan4life

Djokovicfan4life

Legend
I'm not being a damn thing and you know it. Crystal DID decide for herself when she asked you to explain it. She's not new to this, you know. Put your big boy pants on and treat her and others with respect. You only get a "new guy" pass for so long before we give you a dose of reality.
 
J

jdubbs

Hall of Fame
JakeSpeed literally has active arguments on every thread he's replied in.

Dude, you need to give it a rest.
 
A

Ajtat411

Semi-Pro
Jake Speed said:
Gee, Why don't you let Ms. Crystal decide for herself. A big girl.

Hey! You demand credentials from me, but what abut the other 500 individuals spitting out advice?

Look, I don't have the time to explain "everything," and, believe it or not, there's good reason for it. Wait and see.

In the meantime you shouldn't be so judgmental.

It creates bad spirit!

JS #1
Click to expand...


This reminds me of a saying:

"People who live in glass houses should not throw stones"
 
J

Jake Speed

Banned
Djokovicfan4life said:
I'm not being a damn thing and you know it. Crystal DID decide for herself when she asked you to explain it. She's not new to this, you know. Put your big boy pants on and treat her and others with respect. You only get a "new guy" pass for so long before we give you a dose of reality.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Vindictiveness?

I'm learning, quit quickly, how these Forums work. 95% of the members ruin it for the other 5%.

Take a good look at your statement and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

Sure, it's obvious there's a "new kid on the block," but in no way can you show me one comment I made, that would or should bring on a reaction like what members are displaying.

And yes, I sound different, talk different and instruct/reply differently.

Gee, probably because I "really" instruct for a living.

Should be glad I stopped in for a visit?

Never too late to be kind or to show kindness.

It would be welcomed and would look much better to other viewers.

JS #1
 
Djokovicfan4life

Djokovicfan4life

Legend
I already hit with someone who instructs for a living, just did, actually. Did I mention that he treats me with respect and always explains why he wants me to change before we change my strokes?

Anyway, I understand that you speak directly and are confident in your advice. I'm the same way. It wasn't too much to ask to tell Crystal why you want her to stop leading with the elbow. People say crazy stuff on here all the time (like you can't hit topspin with an eastern grip, remember that?), so how do you expect your advice to stand out without explanation? She's just going to bow before your advice?

Just saying that you instruct for a living isn't enough to convince a smart person like her to prioritize your advice over the rest.
 
dozu

dozu

Banned
^^^ yeah, that eastern can't hit topspin thing was the one that made me question Jake's credentials.
 
A

Ajtat411

Semi-Pro
We're all strangers here so the simple fact is that if we treat each other with respect, we will get it back in return. 99% of the time.

If you are arrogant and condesending to others, you will look like a jerk even if you're Paul Annacone. Nobody likes a jerk, plain and simple.
 
J

Jake Speed

Banned
dozu said:
^^^ yeah, that eastern can't hit topspin thing was the one that made me question Jake's credentials.
Click to expand...

So easy to take words out of context or "leave one or two out."

What I said was, and I stand by it...

If you want repeated topspin, on your backhand, loose the eastern grip.
You also have to hit the ball well out front.
Click to expand...

Gee, do I see the word "repeated" stuck in there? Anyone else see it? Wow!

Now why would I word my reply this way, with the word, "repeated?"

Da, I didn't think so.

JS #1
 
J

Jake Speed

Banned
Ajtat411 said:
We're all strangers here so the simple fact is that if we treat each other with respect, we will get it back in return. 99% of the time.

If you are arrogant and condesending to others, you will look like a jerk even if you're Paul Annacone. Nobody likes a jerk, plain and simple.
Click to expand...

God that's funny.

OK, OK, let me get this, "I'm" being the jerk?

Right, got it!

JS #1
 
Djokovicfan4life

Djokovicfan4life

Legend
As long as we're going the condescending route: Do you see Federer's backhand? Does it have enough repeatable topspin for you? Or did you forget to distinguish between forehand and backhand eastern grips? No, that'd be crazy.
 
dozu

dozu

Banned
Jake Speed said:
So easy to take words out of context or "leave one or two out."

What I said was, and I stand by it...



Gee, do I see the word "repeated" stuck in there? Anyone else see it? Wow!

Now why would I word my reply this way, with the word, "repeated?"

Da, I didn't think so.

JS #1
Click to expand...

you know what, I am now convinced that you are just a family cat who can type on the computer keyboard.

guilty until proven innocent (with a video, or a live hit report from a fellow TWer).
 
A

Ajtat411

Semi-Pro
Jake Speed said:
God that's funny.

OK, OK, let me get this, "I'm" being the jerk?

Right, got it!

JS #1
Click to expand...

I didn't call you a jerk. I just said that if someone comes off as arrogant and condesending then you will be percieved a jerk. This is a universal truth for all poster on TT.
 
J

Jake Speed

Banned
Djokovicfan4life said:
As long as we're going the condescending route: Do you see Federer's backhand? Does it have enough repeatable topspin for you? Or did you forget to distinguish between forehand and backhand eastern grips? No, that'd be crazy.
Click to expand...

Why am I wasting my time with this? We are on such different levels.

"Extreme Eastern." Commonly used and preferred.

Also, don't think for one "New York minute, that any given grip is a constant.

Grip "changes" can be on going throughout match play.

Well, maybe not at your level.

JS #1
 
J

Jake Speed

Banned
Ajtat411 said:
I didn't call you a jerk. I just said that if someone comes off as arrogant and condesending then you will be percieved a jerk. This is a universal truth for all poster on TT.
Click to expand...

I believe you are referring to, exactly what I'm receiving. I couldn't have worded it better.

Thanks for that!

JS #1
 
Djokovicfan4life

Djokovicfan4life

Legend
The grip variation is the first thing my coach taught me. Nice try at dissing my level, not gonna work though, I'm already aware of my suckage.



Again, we're not that different. I am told that I sound condescending many times. And yes, that's what was implied above even if they won't say it.
 
J

Jake Speed

Banned
dozu said:
you know what, I am now convinced that you are just a family cat who can type on the computer keyboard.

guilty until proven innocent (with a video, or a live hit report from a fellow TWer).
Click to expand...

You think I'm disliked now? I can't imagine what it would be like if "they" actually saw me hitting.

JS #1
 
dozu

dozu

Banned
Jake Speed said:
You think I'm disliked now? I can't imagine what it would be like if "they" actually saw me hitting.

JS #1
Click to expand...

best case scenario - you hit like TonLars or tennis_balla, we treat you like god, and you can keep dishing out advices.

worst case scenario - you hit like [fill in the blank], people goes 'ah, not too bad, but not impressive either', and you can keep dishing out advices, some will take, some will ignore.

I don't see a disaster scenario here.... no?
 
Ash_Smith

Ash_Smith

Legend
Jake Speed said:
Gee, probably because I "really" instruct for a living.
Click to expand...

cool, me too! Actually so do Balla, JY, Coaching_Mastery, Papa, 5263, TCF and countless others.

Perhaps you could try a little humility in your posts? That could help with the issues you seem to have with rubbing people up the wrong way> Your advice is generally good, but not necessarily better than anyone elses, just a different approach. There is no "one way" - a good coach should know that!

Cheers

Ash
 
T

tennisplayer

Rookie
Hi Jake Speed, I am trying to understand what crystal_clear is doing incorrectly, and it's still eluding me after all these pages of discussion. Is it that her elbow is too close to the body as a result of "leading" with the elbow? Should she have greater separation between her arm and body?

Here's a video of Andy Roddick: is he not leading with the elbow also while getting into the trophy position? If not, could you explain why not?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9iN1qPaKtw

Thanks in advance.
 
C

crystal_clear

Professional
Sigh, I am going to play tonight and not sure how not to "lead with elbow". I google and find this:
Lead with Elbow video
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7hx0j_lead-with-the-elbow_sport

I also find videos which support LeeD's point.
Angle of Racket at Contact:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6eix2_angle-of-racquet-on-serve_sport

There is the reason:
Serving Leverage:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6fq3n_serving-leverage_sport

I like what Jim said at the end of the video, "You could experiment both and see which one you like."
 
C

crystal_clear

Professional
tennisplayer said:
Hi Jake Speed, I am trying to understand what crystal_clear is doing incorrectly, and it's still eluding me after all these pages of discussion. Is it that her elbow is too close to the body as a result of "leading" with the elbow? Should she have greater separation between her arm and body?

Here's a video of Andy Roddick: is he not leading with the elbow also while getting into the trophy position? If not, could you explain why not?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9iN1qPaKtw

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I thought I am the only one don't understand JS's point.
 
C

chico9166

Guest
Jake Speed said:
Your not reading my words correctly and your taking bad advice and using it. You've been using bad advice too long. CHANGE!

Just use your eyes, you HAVE to use your eyes to see the mistakes you are making. Look at your video, s l o w it d o w n, you can clearly see you lead with your elbow.

I cannot help you if you fight me and continue to believe information that's incorrect.

OH! And you should NOT let "gravity" do anything!!

There's a level of maturity that has to exist before instruction can be appreciated and used. Happens even with young children.

I'm not sure you have that?

You also shouldn't be responding to every reply. You should be ignoring these replies; "weak" advice will only confuse you and you will accomplishing nothing. There will be no progress just your repeated mistakes.

Look at the results three years of repeated efforts have gotten others on this Forum. Almost 300 tips! Guy's killing himself trying to get a better serve and he can't. Something ain't right? I can fix it in a week, but the guy won't listen. I'm his "idiot." Nice of him to say this to someone who offered help.

Their more concerned with my "credentials," and not knowing who I am is killing them. All they can do is respond with adversity. LOL, LOL, MY WORDS ARE MY CREDENTIALS, and there not like anyone else's, even your so called Pros!

Sure, I know it, I don't belong here. But just maybe, maybe I can help one person?

You got three years to waste?

Unfortunately, and believe me, the Forum is doing you more harm than good, and guess what, these guys know it.

Maybe your parents can help you figure this out?

JS #1
Click to expand...
seriously, stop with the sermons, and clarify what your tip is.
 
dozu

dozu

Banned
I am willing to bet $5, on that if we ever get to see Jake Speed hitting balls, it will be a big disappointment.
 
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