Best on their worst surface

T

timnz

Legend
Rank these greats playing on their worst surface

Nadal -indoor (some people say hard but I have no idea why since it is so clear that it is indoor)

Federer -clay

McEnroe-clay

Becker-clay

Borg-hard (?????? Actually I think Borg was the only player not to have a weakest surface)

Edberg-clay

Laver-clay


I would put federer first in this list and Becker and nadal near the bottom of the lisr
 
Pwned

Pwned

Hall of Fame
timnz said:
Rank these greats playing on their worst surface

Nadal -indoor (some people say hard but I have no idea why since it is so clear that it is indoor)

Federer -clay

McEnroe-clay

Becker-clay

Borg-hard (?????? Actually I think Borg was the only player not to have a weakest surface)

Edberg-clay

Laver-clay


I would put federer first in this list and Becker and nadal near the bottom of the lisr
Click to expand...
Indoor is hard. There are no carpet indoor courts. And only one indoor court is considered medium/fast.
 
Nadalfan89

Nadalfan89

Hall of Fame
McEnroe is the obvious choice. He was abysmal on clay. Nadal has multiple hardcourt master's, a USO and an AO so he can't be it.

Nadal has achieved more on hardcourt than Federer did on clay.
 
timeisonmyside

timeisonmyside

Semi-Pro
I think some people are misunderstanding the question. The OP is asking who is the best player on their corresponding worst surface.

I would say Federer - clay, but it's kind of hard to call clay his 'worst' surface. He probably personally likes to play on the stuff, but his only problem is that he loses to the clay court GOAT. He'd more than likely would have 5 FO's and many more masters on clay if it weren't for Nadal.
 
zagor

zagor

Bionic Poster
Federer and Lendl if you don't count HC as Nadal's worst surface although I can't see how indoors qualifies as a different surface exactly? Maybe indoor carpet but that surface is extinct,Masters Cup is played on a low bouncing slowish HC.
 
A

accidental

Hall of Fame
Nadalfan89 said:
McEnroe is the obvious choice. He was abysmal on clay. Nadal has multiple hardcourt master's, a USO and an AO so he can't be it.

Nadal has achieved more on hardcourt than Federer did on clay.
Click to expand...

Abysmal on clay? He was 1 set from serve and volleying his way to the Roland Garros title

Becker was worse on clay, also Sampras who isnt on this list for some reason
 
F

fed_rulz

Hall of Fame
accidental said:
Abysmal on clay? He was 1 set from serve and volleying his way to the Roland Garros title

Becker was worse on clay, also Sampras who isnt on this list for some reason
Click to expand...

They are obvious choices for not being the best on their worst surface, so it must've been easy to exclude them.
 
T

timnz

Legend
Indoor

Vortex Tour 95 said:
Depends when you ask. In 2005 Nadal was a clay court specialist and everyone said he couldnt win on anything.

Then he just kept winning and winning and winning.

Clearly Nadal is the best as he is not a clay purr specialist . He has an astounding 6 FO's and the greatest winning streak ever on clay.
Clearly hard courts are his worst surface as well as grass.

Even so Nadal has won the USO ,AO an Wimbledon twice. He is the best on his worst surfaces by far.

No one else can claim a grand slam on a surface they hate.
Click to expand...

Again, one needs to evaluate Nadal on Indoor not Hard.
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
It seems Federer fans consider indoors not a surface when they dont want Nadal leading their outdoor hard court head to head 4-1, but count indoors as a surface when it suits their argument.

Anyway if indoors is not a surface probably Nadal on hard courts. If it is then clearly Laver on clay. Federer on clay is definitely not the winner though.
 
tennis_pro

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Nadalfan89 said:
McEnroe is the obvious choice. He was abysmal on clay. Nadal has multiple hardcourt master's, a USO and an AO so he can't be it.

Nadal has achieved more on hardcourt than Federer did on clay.
Click to expand...

Technically yes but Nadal had twice as many chances on his worst surface than on his best so it's not a fair comparison. Anyway, Federer on clay is way better than Nadal on hard courts so it doesn't really matter.
 
Pwned

Pwned

Hall of Fame
NadalAgassi said:
It seems Federer fans consider indoors not a surface when they dont want Nadal leading their outdoor hard court head to head 4-1, but count indoors as a surface when it suits their argument.

Anyway if indoors is not a surface probably Nadal on hard courts. If it is then clearly Laver on clay. Federer on clay is definitely not the winner though.
Click to expand...

How can indoor be a surface? Indoor refers to a ****ing roof not what you play on. Look at the ATP site head 2 heads. Do you see indoor listed? No. Because it isn't a surface that you play on. I guess for idiots like yourself they'll need to create a new category should the AO or Wimbledon be played with a closed roof.
 
tennis_pro

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
NadalAgassi said:
It seems Federer fans consider indoors not a surface when they dont want Nadal leading their outdoor hard court head to head 4-1, but count indoors as a surface when it suits their argument.

Anyway if indoors is not a surface probably Nadal on hard courts. If it is then clearly Laver on clay. Federer on clay is definitely not the winner though.
Click to expand...

LAWL x 100000

*********s such as yourself came with the idea of an "outdoor" and "indoor" surface, you lier. I'm almost sure Bud was the first one to use outdoor and indoor hard as different surfaces (of course to notice the 4-1 lead on "outdoor" hard over Federer), any stat is good when it hails Nadal and diminishes Federer's greatness.
 
Last edited:
tennis_pro

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Vortex Tour 95 said:
Depends when you ask. In 2005 Nadal was a clay court specialist and everyone said he couldnt win on anything.

Then he just kept winning and winning and winning.

Clearly Nadal is the best as he is not a clay purr specialist . He has an astounding 6 FO's and the greatest winning streak ever on clay.
Clearly hard courts are his worst surface as well as grass.

Even so Nadal has won the USO ,AO an Wimbledon twice. He is the best on his worst surfaces by far.

No one else can claim a grand slam on a surface they hate.
Click to expand...

LOLWUT, does Nadal actually have his best surface since grass AND hard are obviously his worst :D?
 
T

timnz

Legend
Lendl on grass

I'd put Lendl on grass as second only to federer on clay, in terms of strength on weakest surface. Lendl made at least the semis of Wimbledon 7 times including making 2 finals. also one Australian open final on grass.
 
sunnyIce

sunnyIce

Semi-Pro
why do we classify surfaces based on material? (other than it being traditional).

why not classify surfaces based on speed?

1. Slow / Slow Medium - courts from Jan to end of May
2. Medium - June/July
3. Medium Fast / Fast - Aug to Dec.


HEck, we can take this further and classify by "conditions of play". I will let somebody else do that.
 
Pwned

Pwned

Hall of Fame
sunnyIce said:
why do we classify surfaces based on material? (other than it being traditional).

why not classify surfaces based on speed?

1. Slow / Slow Medium - courts from Jan to end of May
2. Medium - June/July
3. Medium Fast / Fast - Aug to Dec.


HEck, we can take this further and classify by "conditions of play". I will let somebody else do that.
Click to expand...

Because everything is medium or slower now.
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
Pwned said:
How can indoor be a surface? Indoor refers to a ****ing roof not what you play on. Look at the ATP site head 2 heads. Do you see indoor listed? No. Because it isn't a surface that you play on. I guess for idiots like yourself they'll need to create a new category should the AO or Wimbledon be played with a closed roof.
Click to expand...

Take a look at this shall genius:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tournaments/Event-Calendar.aspx

As you can see tournaments are either listed just as hard or indoor hard, showing the ATP noting the distinction between the two. So at the very least one can definitely argue indoors as a seperate surface. Do you really think it is coincidence Federer is 1-4 vs Nadal on outdoor hard courts and barely won in the only victory, yet indoors is the only surface he has had an easy time with Nadal so far.

Anyway if as you indoors is not a surface then fine, Nadal on hard courts (which is now his worst surface) is better than anyone else on their worst surface then. U.S Open, Australian Open, and Olympic winner all on hard courts, tons of Masters titles and finals, many wins over Federer and everyone else on the surface.
 
Pwned

Pwned

Hall of Fame
NadalAgassi said:
Take a look at this shall genius:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tournaments/Event-Calendar.aspx

As you can see tournaments are either listed just as hard or indoor hard, showing the ATP noting the distinction between the two. So at the very least one can definitely argue indoors as a seperate surface. Do you really think it is coincidence Federer is 1-4 vs Nadal on outdoor hard courts and barely won in the only victory, yet indoors is the only surface he has had an easy time with Nadal so far.

Anyway if as you indoors is not a surface then fine, Nadal on hard courts (which is now his worst surface) is better than anyone else on their worst surface then. U.S Open, Australian Open, and Olympic winner all on hard courts, tons of Masters titles and finals, many wins over Federer and everyone else on the surface.
Click to expand...

So the AO with roof closed is a different surface than open? So Laver doesn't have a true Grand Slam? He never won on indoor hard or indoor grass?!?!!?

Yes it's a coincidence. Given the lack of fast courts these days the speed of indoor courts is not a factor, WTF especially. Indoor used to refer to super fast carpet courts which aren't played on anymore. A hardcourt is a hardcourt regardless of whether or not there is a roof overhead.
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
Of course the AO with roof closed would make it totally different. For instance at the 88 Australian Open final between Graf and Evert they closed the roof and Evert afterwords was furious and blamed the loss on the closed roof, saying the quicker condidtions favored Graf game and threw her totally out of her rythym she had that tournament.
 
Pwned

Pwned

Hall of Fame
NadalAgassi said:
Of course the AO with roof closed would make it totally different. For instance at the 88 Australian Open final between Graf and Evert they closed the roof and Evert afterwords was furious and blamed the loss on the closed roof, saying the quicker condidtions favored Graf game and threw her totally out of her rythym she had that tournament.
Click to expand...

Bummer for Laver.
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
Those saying a slam has to be won on every surface would discount Laver's slam anyway since there were no hard court slam surfaces of any kind back then, so it makes no difference.
 
tennis_pro

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
NadalAgassi said:
Take a look at this shall genius:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tournaments/Event-Calendar.aspx

As you can see tournaments are either listed just as hard or indoor hard, showing the ATP noting the distinction between the two. So at the very least one can definitely argue indoors as a seperate surface. Do you really think it is coincidence Federer is 1-4 vs Nadal on outdoor hard courts and barely won in the only victory, yet indoors is the only surface he has had an easy time with Nadal so far.

Anyway if as you indoors is not a surface then fine, Nadal on hard courts (which is now his worst surface) is better than anyone else on their worst surface then. U.S Open, Australian Open, and Olympic winner all on hard courts, tons of Masters titles and finals, many wins over Federer and everyone else on the surface.
Click to expand...

imgNikolay%20Davydenko4.jpg
 
J

Jchurch

Guest
NadalAgassi said:
Take a look at this shall genius:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tournaments/Event-Calendar.aspx

As you can see tournaments are either listed just as hard or indoor hard, showing the ATP noting the distinction between the two. So at the very least one can definitely argue indoors as a seperate surface. Do you really think it is coincidence Federer is 1-4 vs Nadal on outdoor hard courts and barely won in the only victory, yet indoors is the only surface he has had an easy time with Nadal so far.

Anyway if as you indoors is not a surface then fine, Nadal on hard courts (which is now his worst surface) is better than anyone else on their worst surface then. U.S Open, Australian Open, and Olympic winner all on hard courts, tons of Masters titles and finals, many wins over Federer and everyone else on the surface.
Click to expand...

No matter the way that you slice it..... Federer on Clay > Nadal on Roof Closed Indoor Hard of Fast but not Super Fast Nature.

I think I nailed down all your criteria and made the surface that Nadal is "Least Best" on accurate. Wouldn't you agree?

Also, if Nadal has many wins over Federer and everyone else on this surface, how come he hasn't been to more than one final at the AO and USO?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

Deleted member 3771

Guest
Nadalfan89 said:
McEnroe is the obvious choice. He was abysmal on clay. Nadal has multiple hardcourt master's, a USO and an AO so he can't be it.

Nadal has achieved more on hardcourt than Federer did on clay.
Click to expand...

what happened to that thread that you began ..it was a great thread but it suddenly vanished!:confused:
 
D

Deleted member 3771

Guest
Nadalfan89 said:
Mods delete all my threads for no reason. I think they have a policy of only allowing me to post, and not to start threads.
Click to expand...

I see. Wouldn't thay have informed you if that was a policy.. Otherwise we all post in a great thread then BOOM its suddenly gone, which is dissapointing for you and everyoen else who posted. :confused:
 
T

tenniselbow1

Rookie
Rafa 'fanatic' fans need to come to their senses and fast.

How in your right mind do you feel Rafa is a better hard court player than Federer is on clay?

You do not want me to pull out numbers to make you people look stupid, trust me. If you have no idea what your talking about, please refrain from commenting.
 
M

Magnus

Legend
Nadalfan89 said:
McEnroe is the obvious choice. He was abysmal on clay. Nadal has multiple hardcourt master's, a USO and an AO so he can't be it.

Nadal has achieved more on hardcourt than Federer did on clay.
Click to expand...

Yeah, sure Nadal achieved more? How many MS and slams are on HC? A lot. Good, now how many on clay? About a half. And that's not even including indoors. Fed is A LOT better on clay than Nadal is on indoors.
 
J

Jchurch

Guest
tenniselbow1 said:
How in your right mind do you feel Rafa is a better hard court player than Federer is on clay?

You do not want me to pull out numbers to make you people look stupid, trust me. If you have no idea what your talking about, please refrain from commenting.
Click to expand...

Please pull out the numbers.
 
Mainad

Mainad

Bionic Poster
tenniselbow1 said:
How in your right mind do you feel Rafa is a better hard court player than Federer is on clay?
Click to expand...

Well,Rafa has 11 hard court titles including 2 Grand Slams.
Federer has 9 clay court titles including 1 Grand Slam.

Conclusion: Rafa is better on hard courts than Federer is on clay.
 
Last edited:
tennis_pro

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Mainad said:
Well,Rafa has 15 hard court titles including 2 Grand Slams.
Federer has 9 clay court titles including 1 Grand Slam.

Conclusion: Rafa is better on hard courts than Federer is on clay.
Click to expand...

Nope. Federer to win 2 French Opens would need to win it in 2 years. You don't have to wait a full year to have another chance of winning a Slam on hard court tho, as we have both AO and USO played in 1 season. Nadal had twice as many chances to collect the titles he did win. It's not always black and white.
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
Magnus said:
Erase Nadal, and Fed has like 3-5 FO titles. Not so bad for a weak surface.
Click to expand...

Erase Nadal and the clay court field is the worst in history by a HUGE margin. It might be the worst in history even with Nadal. Federer indeed would be winning French Opens by beating such clay superstars as Mariano Puerta, Ivan Ljubicic, Nikolay Davydenko, and Gael Monfils in the finals.

Hard courts is the only field that has any quality and depth in the Federer-Nadal which speaks highly to both Federer in his ability to dominate and win so many hard court slams and Nadal in his ability to do so well vs such a strong field of hard courters despite beign better on clay and grass.

Clay and grass in the Federer-Nadal era is mostly a scanenger ground full of nobodies and mugs on those surfaces and Federer and Nadal both have harvested on the available feast.
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
I wouldnt say Lendl on grass. Lendl couldnt win a grass court slam even at the Australian which he played 4 times from 83-87 and often had a depleted field. He had the advantage of playing 2 grass slams a year in many of his prime years and still couldnt win one. He couldnt even beat guys like Pat Cash and Mats Wilander in the finals he played to win grass court slams, and lost to much weaker people then that also. Yeah he lost sometimes to Becker or Edberg in the semis or finals, but nearly all the people we talk about faced people that good or better on their worst surfaces.

Federer on clay, Nadal on hard courts, Agassi on clay, are all much better than Lendl on grass. Connors on clay also, he did win the U.S Open in 76 on green clay and was 3 times a row a finalist. He missed his best potential years at the French.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Y
  • Poll
Which of these greats (including Federer and Nadal) are best on their worst surface
Replies
5
Views
937
tennisaddict
tennisaddict
maynardsson55
Top Players on each surface All-Time
Replies
2
Views
644
maynardsson55
maynardsson55
T
Best male player per surface/conditions - 70s, 9080s, 90s, 00s, 10s
Replies
7
Views
953
Djokodalerer31
Djokodalerer31
Sunny014
Win% on the worst surface for ATGs
Replies
48
Views
1K
Bender
Bender
Razer
Number of Surfaces Mastered by ATGs
2
Replies
72
Views
2K
timnz
T
Top