pc1
G.O.A.T.
Back after a long hiatus, which means time for another update. But before I ramble, what's with the (almost) complete silence since my last post? Nobody found it interesting? After all that time I spent reading and regurgitating that entire thread!
Let me try a different approach then. First, the current (incomplete) list:
1. Ivanisevic
2. Karlovic
3. Sampras
4. Gonzales
5. Krajicek
6. Roddick
7. Isner
8. Arthurs
9. Newcombe
10. McEnroe
11. Tanner
12. Becker
13. Stich
14. Noah
15. Curren
16. Rusedski
Honorary mentions:
McLoughlin, Maurice - perhaps the first distinguished cannonball serve in tennis history
Tilden - yet another storied cannonball serve, which he bolstered with spin and accuracy
Vines - by all accounts, the best and fastest serve of the pre-WWII era
Kramer - in addition to a formidable 1st serve, perhaps the best 2nd serve before Newcombe and Sampras
Denton - his unusual service motion notwithstanding, could bring enormous heat
Edberg - for his legendary kicker, arguably the best serve ever for S&V
Johansson, Joachim - Denton of the 2000s
Now this list hasn't been expanded in a long time. Some of the below names definitely belong on the list, or at least deserve an honorary mention. The question is which.
I listed these potential contenders last time (see above for any particular info):
Gerald Patterson
Geoff Brown
Bob Falkenburg
Alex Olmedo
Mike Sangster
Dennis Ralston
John Alexander
John Feaver
Chip Hooper
Paul Annacone
Slobodan Zivojinovic
From what little I know and have seen, Zivojinovic and Annacone aren't quite among the best of the best. Neither are Olmedo and Ralston. Let us know if you disagree, otherwise the elimination axe awaits. On the other hand Alexander's name has been brought up on numerous occasions.
I saw these names mentioned since my last visit (again listed by order of birth):
Frank Froehling
Colin Dibley
Hank Pfister
Victor Amaya
Scott Warner
Marc-Kevin Goellner
pc1 has argued that Dibley was too inconsistent to rank near the top. Warner was mentioned such a long time ago I don't even remember how he got eliminated. Goellner was ruled out by yours truly as he's about in the same league as Zivojinovic, Querrey and their cohort. I don't have anything useful to say about Froehling, Pfister and Amaya, except that the latter two were probably active more in the doubles circuit and thus should be excluded. Again feel free to share any objections.
Also these names have been floating around for a while:
Ashe
Smith
Eric Korita
Forget
Rosset
Philippoussis
Ljubicic
All these players save Korita certainly have the results to back up their candidacy. The difficult part is figuring out how much of their success can be attributed to their serve, not their game as a whole. This is where your input is sorely needed.
Someone also mentioned Wheaton, Martin, Rafter, Kafelnikov, Medvedev and Henman (on a thread about the best servers of the '90s, naturally). Now, Wheaton and Martin did have pretty big serves, but they were not quite as overpowering as, say, Goran, Krajicek, Flipper and the other bona fide monster servers (Sampras says as much about Martin in his book). Rafter had a great kicker on par with Edberg's, but it wasn't as feared, and Edberg himself merits a mere honorary mention. And I think most of us would agree that Kafelnikov, Medvedev and Henman aren't quite up there.
So what do you think? Which of these names should be added to the VIP list? Do remember that the goal (or at least mine) is to rank these serves as stand-alone shots. It's fine if you want to consider clutch and other intangibles, but try not to rely too much on the player's overall resume. And let's try not to get this thread stuck on page 5.
Thanks, pc1. But I want some rankings, damnit! This list has been static for a millennium now?
Okay a couple of minor criticisms. Isner's serve is terrific but he hasn't been around that long. I don't think he should be on the list quite yet.
Roddick's serve is actually one of the best ever since he's often led the ATP in percentage of holding serve for a number of years. Considering that I don't think he has the all court skills or mobility of a Nadal or Federer, that says something for his serve.
I'll look at it a little more when I had the time.