Greatest Volleyer of all-time?

L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
FrewMcMillian would have to be on the short 20 list. Little serve, no movement, and more than 6 grand slam doubles titles and well over 60 tourney doubles titles. 2hbh and 2hfh volleys.
 
L

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
onehandbh said:
My vote is for Edberg.

Check out this FH volley in the clip below:
He routinely handled low FH volleys with ease, which makes me think he
might have done well against the current crop of players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqhcMrEjWDE
Click to expand...

There's a previous thread with the exact same topic. And, BTW, there's a difference between being a great volleyer and being a great net player. It takes great volleys, great athleticism and familiarity and knowledge about how to play the net to be a great net player. With that in mind, IMO, the greatest net players I can think of, in no particular order (ordering this subject is just too hard for me), are:

Roche
Emerson
Laver
Newcombe
Gonzales
Rosewall
Edberg
McEnroe

Yes, Edberg was a great volleyer and net player and could really drive low volleys with a very small margin for error. Compare your clip of Edberg with Roche's net play here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHaN2h21ANs
 
hoodjem

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
An attempt

1. McEnroe
2. Edberg
3. Sedgman
4. Roche
5. Laver
6. Rosewall
7. Emerson
8. Gonzales
9. Hoad
10. Segura
11. Kramer
12. Newcombe
13. Panatta
14. Rafter
15. Henman
16. Cash
17. Ashe
18. Lutz
19. Borotra
20. Nastase
21. Stich
22. Sampras
23. Becker
24. Perry
25. Gottfried
26. Gerulaitis
27. Bahrami
28. Krajicek
29. Rusedski
 
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pc1

pc1

G.O.A.T.
hoodjem said:
1. Edberg
2. McEnroe
3. Sedgman
4. Roche
5. Rosewall
6. Laver
7. Emerson
8. Gonzales
9. Hoad
10. Segura
11. Newcombe
12. Panatta
13. Rafter
14. Henman
15. Cash,
16. Kramer
17. Ashe
18. Lutz
19. Borotra
20. Nastase
21. Stich
22. Sampras
23. Becker
24. Perry
25. Gottfried
26. Gerulaitis
27. Krajicek
Click to expand...

Excellent list. I'm glad you have Brian Gottfried there since in a number of ratings they had in tennis magazines had him among the best volleyers in tennis. I'm sure many in the top ten can be interchanged but Edberg is about a good a choice as possible for best volleyer. Sometimes you got the impression Edberg couldn't miss a volley even if he wanted to.

I may move Kramer a little higher since they said his volleys were very penetrating and he often put it away with one volley. They also said he had excellent range at the net. I can see Kramer in the top ten.
 
W

Whirly

New User
hoodjem said:
1. Edberg
2. McEnroe
3. Sedgman
4. Roche
5. Rosewall
6. Laver
7. Emerson
8. Gonzales
9. Hoad
10. Segura
11. Newcombe
12. Panatta
13. Rafter
14. Henman
15. Cash,
16. Kramer
17. Ashe
18. Lutz
19. Borotra
20. Nastase
21. Stich
22. Sampras
23. Becker
24. Perry
25. Gottfried
26. Gerulaitis
27. Krajicek
Click to expand...

S&V my favourite play style. Rafter is my fave but what is interesting is every name before his are before my time. Going to spend some time on youtube watching some of those oldies now.

Rusedski was a great vollier when he wasn't knackered after the first few games.
 
J

jakemcclain32

Banned
McEnroe with Edberg second.

Edberg was dead spot on, and beautiful to watch. Mac, though, showed more creativity. Could hit them in places no one knew were places.
 
C

CDestroyer

Professional
Edberg by a long shot. He volleyed effortlessly and his volleys were difficult to run down and hit passing shots on.

Mcenroe had good feel but hit awkward soft volleys that were returnable.

Edberg is THE man no doubt.
 
onehandbh

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
CDestroyer said:
Edberg by a long shot. He volleyed effortlessly and his volleys were difficult to run down and hit passing shots on.

Mcenroe had good feel but hit awkward soft volleys that were returnable.

Edberg is THE man no doubt.
Click to expand...

Agreed. What stands out to me the most about Edberg's volleys/net game
was how penetrating his volleys were and his ability to close the net and
cover it like a blanket. The court were faster back then, though. One
interesting thing is that he made the French open final one year.
 
Backhanded Compliment

Backhanded Compliment

Legend
Simple.... McEnroe

in his matches he not only volleyed well... he made impossible shots look routine.

Edberg is second. His strength as a volleyier came from his impressive ability on the approach and staging of points... Mac made it happen with the most amazingly gifted set of hands at the net ever, bar none. Edberg hit great solid, supremely well constructed volleys... Mac did something akin to magic at the net that one has trouble believing just happened... it just isn't possible for even very very good pros of any era to mimic his touch and shot selection at the net.

The fact that Mac is the greatest doubles player of all time reiterates why he's the best vollier.
 
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D

Datacipher

Banned
duusoo said:
David Wheaton seems to be neglected here. I thought he had one of the better ones. Of course Johnny Mac.!
Click to expand...

Come on David, the jig is up! ;-)


Greatest Volleyers of All Time (2009)
duusoo said:
I think David Wheaton and Marty Riessen deserve some recognition as being great volleyers
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Pure Vollyer of all time? Edberg or Rafter?
duusoo said:
I believe one American that is being overlooked is David Wheaton. I believe that he was one of the best.
Click to expand...

Azzurri said:
LOL...is that you David?:shock::smile:
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Azzurri said:
Mayotte and Martin were better in this 3rd tier class of volleyers, but david was still very good.
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drwood said:
Wheaton was ok, but he relied very heavily on his serve; his volleys weren't as good as Ivanisevic's.
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Azzurri said:
agreed, Wheaton was ok. Mayotte was pretty good on grass and better on volleys than Wheaton.
Click to expand...

Datacipher said:
David actually was a diehard baseliner until his late teens. He developed into a good all-courter but he can't even begin to compare to an Edberg or even a Rafter at net.
Click to expand...
 
pc1

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Cesare said:
vijay armitraji, especially for his backhand volley, should be in the top 20 IMHO.
Click to expand...

Ah, Vijay. What a great player to watch! Arthur Ashe mentioned one time on television that he thought Vijay's forehand volley was one of the five best in tennis. I don't remember the year.
 
U

urban

Legend
'American in Paris' Budge Patty was one of the best volleyers of the post war era. I found a description in Lawn Tennis-The Australian Way: "He used almost no backswing, pushing into the ball after contact with a characteristic wrist-action similar to that used by a good squash-player.".
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
pc1 said:
Excellent list. I'm glad you have Brian Gottfried there since in a number of ratings they had in tennis magazines had him among the best volleyers in tennis. I'm sure many in the top ten can be interchanged but Edberg is about a good a choice as possible for best volleyer. Sometimes you got the impression Edberg couldn't miss a volley even if he wanted to.

I may move Kramer a little higher since they said his volleys were very penetrating and he often put it away with one volley. They also said he had excellent range at the net. I can see Kramer in the top ten.
Click to expand...

Pretty good list.I think Cochet and Mc Laughlin should be up there; another one was Mervin Rose, an aussie of the mid 50´s.rest of the list, even if positions could change is pretty good....oh¡ and what about Bob Lutz and Frew Mc MIllan, doubles specialists, with amazing volleying talent?
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
Cesare said:
vijay armitraji, especially for his backhand volley, should be in the top 20 IMHO.
Click to expand...

That´s true, I missed him.Ross Case , in the 70´s, was one of the best doubles volleyers.But that list is quite respectable...anybody has noticed no 2000-2011 player is included.Rafter was the last, true, volley great.
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
¿Women? King,Wade,Cawley,Mandlikova,Novotna and, of course, Navratilova in modern times.As for the olides, I heard a lot about Darlene Hard,Althea Gibson,Suzanne Lenglen, Bueno and, may be the greatest one , Alice Marble.As for doubles play, Rosie Casals and Kerry Reid were also very solid at the net, so were Stove and Shriver ( although not as good as those above mentioned)
 
L

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
kiki said:
¿Women? King,Wade,Cawley,Mandlikova,Novotna and, of course, Navratilova in modern times.As for the olides, I heard a lot about Darlene Hard,Althea Gibson,Suzanne Lenglen, Bueno and, may be the greatest one , Alice Marble.As for doubles play, Rosie Casals and Kerry Reid were also very solid at the net, so were Stove and Shriver ( although not as good as those above mentioned)
Click to expand...

I'm glad you put King first, even if you didn't intend it to mean that you thought she was the best. So, I'll say it explicitly, IMO, BJK was the best vollyer ever in woman's tennis. But, I'm inclined to say that Martina was the overall best net player due to her athleticism.
 
Cesare

Cesare

Semi-Pro
pc1 said:
Ah, Vijay. What a great player to watch! Arthur Ashe mentioned one time on television that he thought Vijay's forehand volley was one of the five best in tennis. I don't remember the year.
Click to expand...

yeah, amazing serve and volley's player. and what a Gentleman.

Look at here when he defeated Borg at U.s. open '74. That Forest Hills grass was beautiful..( second round)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDFd4q3CycU
 
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kiki

kiki

Banned
Limpinhitter said:
I'm glad you put King first, even if you didn't intend it to mean that you thought she was the best. So, I'll say it explicitly, IMO, BJK was the best vollyer ever in woman's tennis. But, I'm inclined to say that Martina was the overall best net player due to her athleticism.
Click to expand...

I agree.But I´d also consider, when on, Hana Mandlikova´s net play as one of the best.Court and Wade were good net players, very solid and athletic.There have been , due to obvious reasons, less S&V players among the women than among the men, but those women could hit volleys as well as any top pto.
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
Volleying is an almost australian ( and some americans) art, whose love for doubles play made them improve net game.Look at Newcombe, Roche,Emmo,Hoad,Sedgman,Fraser, even Cash, they were among the greatest doubles players of any time.Even not so great players like Alexander,Case,Edmondson,Warwick were pretty better volleyers than guys ranked well ahead of them.And Brian Gottfried and Arthur Ashe, probably the 2 best US volleyers of the 70´s were great doubles players...not to mention, of course, JMac.See what doubles can make for you volley ( even women like Casals,King,Navratilova,Reid improved a lot their net game because they keep playing doubles week in, week off)
 
W

WCT

Professional
pc1 said:
Excellent list. I'm glad you have Brian Gottfried there since in a number of ratings they had in tennis magazines had him among the best volleyers in tennis.
Click to expand...

I remember one of those magazine ratings. World Tennis. A 1980 poll of the players. Gottfried won for best volley. And he won for best forehand and backhand volley. I still remember how taken aback I was that he'd win both. I always thought he was a very good volleyer, but thought Mcenroe would win at least one of the wings by that point.
 
T

timnz

Legend
Hoad combined with Roche

hoodjem said:
1. McEnroe
2. Edberg
3. Sedgman
4. Roche
5. Rosewall
6. Laver
7. Emerson
8. Gonzales
9. Hoad
10. Segura
11. Kramer
12. Newcombe
13. Panatta
14. Rafter
15. Henman
16. Cash
17. Ashe
18. Lutz
19. Borotra
20. Nastase
21. Stich
22. Sampras
23. Becker
24. Perry
25. Gottfried
26. Gerulaitis
27. Bahrami
28. Krajicek
29. Rusedski
Click to expand...

Newcombe said that Hoad had the best forehand volley and many have said that Roche had the best backhand volley
 
L

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
timnz said:
Newcombe said that Hoad had the best forehand volley and many have said that Roche had the best backhand volley
Click to expand...

Dennis Ralston was a great volleyer, especially known for his fh volley. I would put him and Marty Riessen ahead of a few on Hood's list.
 
Backhanded Compliment

Backhanded Compliment

Legend
Limpinhitter said:
I'm still more impressed with Roche here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHaN2h21ANs
Click to expand...

That is very impressive, Roche is a serious contender (but Id still give the edge to Edberg for his better approaches) but this shows why it has to be Mac: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnq2PRw5Dmc

Edberg, Roche and Laver are undeniable machines... GREAT, if not 3 of the 5 greatest volleyers ever but Mac's hands are just obscene. The others hit shots that are classic, undeniably outstanding vollies with awe inspiring regularity, but Mac hit shots that transcended tennis.

In sports there are only handful of athletes that had shots impressive enough to redefine the popularity of that sport. For tennis it was Mac's volleys. Nothing else has captivated the worlds attention and focused it on the sport in quite the same way... not even Sharipova's grunts!
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
Backhanded Compliment said:
That is very impressive, Roche is a serious contender (but Id still give the edge to Edberg for his better approaches) but this shows why it has to be Mac: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnq2PRw5Dmc

Edberg, Roche and Laver are undeniable machines... GREAT, if not 3 of the 5 greatest volleyers ever but Mac's hands are just obscene. The others hit shots that are classic, undeniably outstanding vollies with awe inspiring regularity, but Mac hit shots that transcended tennis.

In sports there are only handful of athletes that had shots impressive enough to redefine the popularity of that sport. For tennis it was Mac's volleys. Nothing else has captivated the worlds attention and focused it on the sport in quite the same way... not even Sharipova's grunts!
Click to expand...

I agree.Mac´s volleys were God´s blessed.Unbelievable touch and angles.
 
L

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
Backhanded Compliment said:
That is very impressive, Roche is a serious contender (but Id still give the edge to Edberg for his better approaches) but this shows why it has to be Mac: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnq2PRw5Dmc

Edberg, Roche and Laver are undeniable machines... GREAT, if not 3 of the 5 greatest volleyers ever but Mac's hands are just obscene. The others hit shots that are classic, undeniably outstanding vollies with awe inspiring regularity, but Mac hit shots that transcended tennis.

In sports there are only handful of athletes that had shots impressive enough to redefine the popularity of that sport. For tennis it was Mac's volleys. Nothing else has captivated the worlds attention and focused it on the sport in quite the same way... not even Sharipova's grunts!
Click to expand...

I would give Laver the edge on volleys taken above the net cord. He crushed the ball. I remember watching him win a hardcourt event in which his volleys caused the ball to literally flatten out when it hit the court. Below the net cord, Roche, Edberg, Rosewall, Newcombe and Emerson were probably better. Edberg was bigger and quicker than the others. So, his net coverage was better. And, his low fh volley was probably the greatest ever. However, Gonzales was bigger and quicker than Edberg, and his volley's nearly as great, and his touch better. I was never a big fan of McEnroe's low volleys. He didn't get down to the ball as well as others. But, his touch volleys were the best I've ever seen, and his instincts at the net were as great as anyone.
 
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F

fed_rulz

Hall of Fame
In the "greatest BH of all time thread", it seems like the consensus was that a player should be ranked based on how they measured in their respective time. Hence, I nominate to include either Llodra, or Nadal to be included in the top 10 volleyers of all time (JMac claimed that Nadal has the best volleys of any active player, "bar none" during wimby).
 
CyBorg

CyBorg

Legend
fed_rulz said:
In the "greatest BH of all time thread", it seems like the consensus was that a player should be ranked based on how they measured in their respective time. Hence, I nominate to include either Llodra, or Nadal to be included in the top 10 volleyers of all time (JMac claimed that Nadal has the best volleys of any active player, "bar none" during wimby).
Click to expand...

I'll explain why I don't agree with this thinking.

The reason why the backhand of someone like Laver has to be analyzed in understanding of the context of his time is because it is important to grasp the effect of racquet technology on the way pros hit the ball at that time (along with other things, such as instruction).

Even though Laver did not hit his shots with nearly as much power and accuracy as the stars of today, with the woodies he had, it nonetheless objectively true that hitting technique was exemplary. But it was exemplary in a different way, relative to his time, equipment and conditions.

Volleying today is pretty much a lost art. Players barely do it anymore. Saying that Federer or Nadal, or whoever, is one of the all time great volleyers because they are among the best today does not make them among the best of all time.

So your analogy of volleying doesn't fit well with the examples of backhands or even serves in past eras, because hitting backhands and hitting serves were always fundamental aspects of tennis. You can't play tennis without hitting backhands in pretty much every single point. But now you can play tennis and barely hit volleys.

P.S. I should add that I don't think either Nadal or Federer are the best volleyers in the game today. Someone might know better than me, but I think it would be reasonable to assess lower-ranked players like Llodra or Kendrick as being better. Not to mention doubles specialists. Nadal is however excellent at point construction and competent enough at volleying. Federer has extremely good half-volleys, but struggles with some other aspects.
 
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kiki

kiki

Banned
fed_rulz said:
In the "greatest BH of all time thread", it seems like the consensus was that a player should be ranked based on how they measured in their respective time. Hence, I nominate to include either Llodra, or Nadal to be included in the top 10 volleyers of all time (JMac claimed that Nadal has the best volleys of any active player, "bar none" during wimby).
Click to expand...

Definitely, you have very little idea of tennis...or, at least, of the tennis that was played ( yes, there was tennis then) before your current "Golden Era".To Put Nadal or LLodra´s or Fed´s volleys at the same level as Edberg,Mac,Rafter,Cash,Panatta,Newcombe,Rosewall,Roche,Sedgman,Hoad,Newcombe,Emmo,Laver or Fraser...in the middle ages you would go straight to the burning pile.:)
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
Limpinhitter said:
I'm glad you put King first, even if you didn't intend it to mean that you thought she was the best. So, I'll say it explicitly, IMO, BJK was the best vollyer ever in woman's tennis. But, I'm inclined to say that Martina was the overall best net player due to her athleticism.
Click to expand...

I forgot Margaret Court...
 
hoodjem

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
kiki said:
Definitely, you have very little idea of tennis...or, at least, of the tennis that was played ( yes, there was tennis then) before your current "Golden Era".To Put Nadal or LLodra´s or Fed´s volleys at the same level as Edberg,Mac,Rafter,Cash,Panatta,Newcombe,Rosewall,Roche,Sedgman,Hoad,Newcombe,Emmo,Laver or Fraser...in the middle ages you would go straight to the burning pile.:)
Click to expand...
It's not as if he is a witch . . .
 
hoodjem

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
1. McEnroe/Edberg
3. Sedgman
4. Roche
5. Laver
6. Rosewall
7. Emerson
8. Gonzales
9. Hoad
10. Kramer
11. Newcombe
12. Panatta
13. Rafter
14. Segura
15. Henman
16. Cash
17. Ashe
18. Lutz
19. Borotra
20. Cochet
21. Fraser
22. Gerulaitis
23. Perry
24. Nastase
25. Stich
26. Sampras
27. Becker
28. Gottfried
29. Leconte
30. Kriek
31. Patty
31. Bahrami
33. Krajicek
34. Rusedski
35. Amitraj
35. Forget
36. Fitzgerald
37. Llodra
38. Noah



* Hon. Mention (for invention): McLaughlin
 
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