Is Nadal REALLY declining?

  • Thread starter TheMagicianOfPrecision
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T

TheMagicianOfPrecision

Guest
Or is he simply just out of form?

I personally dont think he is declining, how could he do that at 25? I know about his mileage and his brutal style of play etc etc, but still, really!?:shock:

I have counted him out many times already and I dont dare to do that ever again because usually he dissapoints me terribly by winning the title!

2011 USO there is so much at stake, so many questions will be answered.

IF Murray wins USO, If if if...then I think he will go on and win 3-5 GS in his career. If he doesnt win it, im afraid he will end his career with 0 Slams.

I think Nadal will win USO this year again. Yes. Ill place a bet on him anyway, so it will be a win-win-situation.
 
C

chrischris

G.O.A.T.
TheMagicianOfPrecision said:
Or is he simply just out of form?

I personally dont think he is declining, how could he do that at 25? I know about his mileage and his brutal style of play etc etc, but still, really!?:shock:

I have counted him out many times already and I dont dare to do that ever again because usually he dissapoints me terribly by winning the title!

2011 USO there is so much at stake, so many questions will be answered.

IF Murray wins USO, If if if...then I think he will go on and win 3-5 GS in his career. If he doesnt win it, im afraid he will end his career with 0 Slams.

I think Nadal will win USO this year again. Yes. Ill place a bet on him anyway, so it will be a win-win-situation.
Click to expand...


Ever heard of Bjorn Borg or Tracy Austin?
 
Clarky21

Clarky21

Banned
I do think he is in decline,and for some reason,it has been rapid this year. He played well at the start of the year up until Doha. Something happened there,and he has not recovered from it since.

And I don't see him winning the USO this year,or any year for the rest of his career. He had to max out his form last year just to be able to win it once. More than that is too much to ask.
 
BULLZ1LLA

BULLZ1LLA

Banned
TheMagicianOfPrecision said:
Or is he simply just out of form?

I personally dont think he is declining, how could he do that at 25? I know about his mileage and his brutal style of play etc etc, but still, really!?:shock:

I have counted him out many times already and I dont dare to do that ever again because usually he dissapoints me terribly by winning the title!

2011 USO there is so much at stake, so many questions will be answered.

IF Murray wins USO, If if if...then I think he will go on and win 3-5 GS in his career. If he doesnt win it, im afraid he will end his career with 0 Slams.

I think Nadal will win USO this year again. Yes. Ill place a bet on him anyway, so it will be a win-win-situation.
Click to expand...

(Nadal is not even out of form. He reached a higher level of tennis at this year's Wimbledon than last year's Wimbledon. And he usually takes a while to adapt to hardcourts, so did anyone really expect him to be in great hardcourt form at Montreal/Cincy? He served better at Cincy than last year, by far)
 
PSNELKE

PSNELKE

Legend
TheMagicianOfPrecision said:
Or is he simply just out of form?

I personally dont think he is declining, how could he do that at 25? I know about his mileage and his brutal style of play etc etc, but still, really!?:shock:

I have counted him out many times already and I dont dare to do that ever again because usually he dissapoints me terribly by winning the title!

2011 USO there is so much at stake, so many questions will be answered.

IF Murray wins USO, If if if...then I think he will go on and win 3-5 GS in his career. If he doesnt win it, im afraid he will end his career with 0 Slams.

I think Nadal will win USO this year again. Yes. Ill place a bet on him anyway, so it will be a win-win-situation.
Click to expand...

I agree with you..As for the last statement: No you dont. :D
 
DjokovicForTheWin

DjokovicForTheWin

Banned
Nadal is neither declining NOR is he out of form. He is just not good enough to beat the Djoker. Only idiots who know nothing about tennis think he is. Is David Ferrer continuously out of form because he has never won a slam?
 
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T

tennis_fan_182

Banned
BULLZ1LLA said:
(Nadal is not even out of form. He reached a higher level of tennis at this year's Wimbledon than last year's Wimbledon. And he usually takes a while to adapt to hardcourts, so did anyone really expect him to be in great hardcourt form at Montreal/Cincy? He served better at Cincy than last year, by far)
Click to expand...

So you admit that even this 'best ever' Nadal got slaughtered by the new 'best ever' Djokovic on the latter's worst surface? Since Nadal's best is inferior to Djokovic's best, the match must therefore be on Djokovic's racket whenever the two meet, perhaps even on clay?

Btw, I can't believe anyone is even arguing the likelihood of a Federer or even a Soderling, Ferrer, Fish...etc... reaching the final of this slam.

The final is a complete DJokovic/Nadal LOCK.
 
Sentinel

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
icon1.gif
Is Nadal REALLY declining?

I hope so.

Hehe.
Relax guys. apologies to zagor.
 
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batz

batz

G.O.A.T.
TheMagicianOfPrecision said:
Or is he simply just out of form?

I personally dont think he is declining, how could he do that at 25? I know about his mileage and his brutal style of play etc etc, but still, really!?:shock:

I have counted him out many times already and I dont dare to do that ever again because usually he dissapoints me terribly by winning the title!

2011 USO there is so much at stake, so many questions will be answered.

IF Murray wins USO, If if if...then I think he will go on and win 3-5 GS in his career. If he doesnt win it, im afraid he will end his career with 0 Slams.

I think Nadal will win USO this year again. Yes. Ill place a bet on him anyway, so it will be a win-win-situation.
Click to expand...

Ladbrokes are refunding all losing bets if Murray wins the USO. Oh and I agree with you - Rafa is not in decline, he's just a bit out of form.
 
C

celoft

Guest
I think he is.

Might win 1 or 2 more slams max.

All those who were predicting he would tie/break Fed's records were wrong.
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Read the latest Tennis magazine and Chrissie's editorial. She attributes it to the 7 year itch commonly found in pro players.
 
A

aprilfool

Guest
He doesn't really need any more Masters

He's focused on catching Federer. No matter what he says in interviews.
He'll be in the finals of the US OPen.
 
T

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Crisstti said:
Nah, I don't think so. Unless there's a lack of interest on his part.
Click to expand...

You don't lose interest or motivation at 25, and Nadal still has a lot to prove. Otherwise there's something wrong with him. Maybe he's just afraid to lose and can't stand it. True champion will fight his way out, and don't lose his focus. Sure, he got knocked down, but get up and fight !

Fed was at his age still has alot to prove and kept going. He handled pressure quite well, now it's time for Nadal. If he can't, then he's not man enough.
 
Crisstti

Crisstti

Legend
TMF said:
You don't lose interest or motivation at 25, and Nadal still has a lot to prove. Otherwise there's something wrong with him. Maybe he's just afraid to lose and can't stand it. True champion will fight his way out, and don't lose his focus. Sure, he got knocked down, but get up and fight !

Fed was at his age still has alot to prove and kept going. He handled pressure quite well, now it's time for Nadal. If he can't, then he's not man enough.
Click to expand...

Some do. What about Borg?.

Fed's case is different, I think. He has always had his girlfriend/wife with him. Rafa doesn't see his girlfriend that much during the year, nor his family and friends, which must take it's toll (especially since he's so close to them). He's also been competing at the highest level longer than Fed had been at 25. And he has won pretty much all of importance to win. He's said how he finds exhausting the intense focus that's requiered all the time... I can see how he could be losing interest.

Mind you, I hope he isn't. I'd like to keep seing him play.
 
TennezSport

TennezSport

Hall of Fame
Remember Bjorn?......

TMF said:
You don't lose interest or motivation at 25, and Nadal still has a lot to prove. Otherwise there's something wrong with him.
Click to expand...

Tell that to the guy most compared to Rafa, Bjorn Borg who retired at the USO at 25. 2 years ago Unc T asked Babolat to come up with a new string to help Rafa cause he was getting older; RPM Blast was born. Rafa has been injured two or more times for the last 9 consecutive years, because of his style of play. His determination is what got him through many a tough match and now players have a very good game plan against Rafa, so even if he does win it takes a lot out of him.

Rafa recently stated that Novak is in his head; Rafa recently lost to Dodig and Fish and complained that he was tired after a 6 week vacation and having played 3 matches all summer. His foot is hurting again along with tender knees. Again his determination will carry him far, but how much more can he take as the fear factor wanes with other players. This is why Chrissy made the statement that she did in Tennis.

Cheers, TennezSport :cool:
 
Clarky21

Clarky21

Banned
TennisFan3 said:
Sound like good Science Fiction :)

As it stands, Nadal is not even in the top 4 or 5 to win the UsOpen. For heaven's sake, have you seen Nadal in the past month?
Click to expand...

I know. I think the people who are predicting him to win don't really believe he will. It's a jinxing effort as if Nadal needs anymore jinxing for him to lose. He is doing well at that all on his own.
 
N

Netspirit

Hall of Fame
He has started to decline, compared to his peak. However, this does not mean that he will drop out of top 2 any time soon, or will not climb back to 1. He is not alone there on tour.
 
ViscaB

ViscaB

Hall of Fame
I don't think we can speak of a decline as in principle his season is a success already. Winning the FO and getting to the final of Wimbledon is certainly above his objective (of winning a slam each season). Only one other player has stepped up his game else Nadal would have done another double. It remains to be seen how long Djokovic can keep up.
 
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phishua

phishua

Rookie
TennezSport said:
Tell that to the guy most compared to Rafa, Bjorn Borg who retired at the USO at 25. 2 years ago Unc T asked Babolat to come up with a new string to help Rafa cause he was getting older; RPM Blast was born. Rafa has been injured two or more times for the last 9 consecutive years, because of his style of play. His determination is what got him through many a tough match and now players have a very good game plan against Rafa, so even if he does win it takes a lot out of him.

Rafa recently stated that Novak is in his head; Rafa recently lost to Dodig and Fish and complained that he was tired after a 6 week vacation and having played 3 matches all summer. His foot is hurting again along with tender knees. Again his determination will carry him far, but how much more can he take as the fear factor wanes with other players. This is why Chrissy made the statement that she did in Tennis.

Cheers, TennezSport :cool:
Click to expand...

I didn't know that Babolat RPM Blast was Toni Nadal's doing! Where did you hear/read about that?

I agree that if Rafa has been off this year it is mental. Seems he has had injuries, both serious and minor, during most of his pro career. But he has always been able to overcome them if he believes in himself and is determined to win.

We will see! I think he could win the Open, but most like will not. He said on Letterman the other night that it was going to be very difficult, and if he doesn't believe that he can win, he will not.
 
M

monfed

Guest
TennisFan3 said:
Sound like good Science Fiction :)

As it stands, Nadal is not even in the top 4 or 5 to win the UsOpen. For heaven's sake, have you seen Nadal in the past month?
Click to expand...

Have you seen Nadal's draw? Who's gonna beat him,David Ferrer? :lol:

Nadal's a lock ATLEAST for the semis.
Besides,do you really think a mental midget like Murray is gonna beat Nadal?

People always forget that you have to actually BEAT Nadal. He doesn't just roll over and die.
 
TTMR

TTMR

Hall of Fame
Nadal did nothing at Canada or Cincinnati last year either, and he went on to dominate the US Open (albeit with what turned out to be a breeze draw, but still).

The one difference is that as of last year's US Open, Nadal had never lost in a slam final except to Federer, and that was back when Nadal was a serious underdog in 2007. He is not used to losing in finals. But honestly, I think the mental aspect of tennis is exaggerated--often to the point of hyperbole when vacuous dolts like Mary Carillo speak on the subject.

Ultimately, I think Nadal will be back with a vengeance. If the oddsmakers have him longer than Federer, they are insane. Nadal has much more of a chance to win this tournament than Federer, or Murray for that matter. Personally I'd give anything to see something other than a Nadal/Djokovic or Nadal/Federer final, but I'd say at least one of those is quite probable.
 
C

CDestroyer

Professional
phishua said:
I didn't know that Babolat RPM Blast was Toni Nadal's doing! Where did you hear/read about that?

I agree that if Rafa has been off this year it is mental. Seems he has had injuries, both serious and minor, during most of his pro career. But he has always been able to overcome them if he believes in himself and is determined to win.

We will see! I think he could win the Open, but most like will not. He said on Letterman the other night that it was going to be very difficult, and if he doesn't believe that he can win, he will not.
Click to expand...

Thats total bs. He is just believing what Babolat marketing pigs spoon feeds the pubic.

He won't see the 2nd week of the USO.
 
jackson vile

jackson vile

G.O.A.T.
TheMagicianOfPrecision said:
Or is he simply just out of form?

I personally dont think he is declining, how could he do that at 25? I know about his mileage and his brutal style of play etc etc, but still, really!?:shock:

I have counted him out many times already and I dont dare to do that ever again because usually he dissapoints me terribly by winning the title!

2011 USO there is so much at stake, so many questions will be answered.

IF Murray wins USO, If if if...then I think he will go on and win 3-5 GS in his career. If he doesnt win it, im afraid he will end his career with 0 Slams.

I think Nadal will win USO this year again. Yes. Ill place a bet on him anyway, so it will be a win-win-situation.
Click to expand...


Will have to wait and see until the end of the year to be sure what is what. However, Nadal did look rather subpeak at FO 2011, also Wim 2011 was rather sloppy regardless of Novak playing a great match.

So Nadal is still in prime, however he is not playing peak anymore. Perhaps that will change next year, but I am not sure Nadal has his head 100% in the game. He does not seem to be trying as hard, and seems he has other stuff on his mind.
 
L

ledwix

Hall of Fame
monfed said:
Have you seen Nadal's draw? Who's gonna beat him,David Ferrer? :lol:

Nadal's a lock ATLEAST for the semis.
Besides,do you really think a mental midget like Murray is gonna beat Nadal?

People always forget that you have to actually BEAT Nadal. He doesn't just roll over and die.
Click to expand...

Ferrer has not only beaten Nadal at the US Open before, but he has beaten Nadal in a slam this year in which he did "roll over." So it could obviously happen if Nadal was a little off. We'll have to see how the first few rounds at the Open go. He didn't look good at all in Montreal/Cincinnati.
 
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TennezSport

TennezSport

Hall of Fame
Dont think it was..........

phishua said:
I didn't know that Babolat RPM Blast was Toni Nadal's doing! Where did you hear/read about that?
Click to expand...

I got this directly from Babolat and it was repeated in a recent ESPN article. I don't think that RPMB was Unc Ts doing directly as Bab was already working on several new strings at the time including PHT Black. If you remember at the time Rafa was dropping a lot of balls short on the forehand side and Unc T felt that with Rafa getting older (and injured more often), he needed a more forgiving string with more power and spin (duralast was killing him imho). Rafa tested several versions of new string and finally settled on RPMB.

Cheers, TennezSport :cool:
 
zagor

zagor

Bionic Poster
jackson vile said:
Will have to wait and see until the end of the year to be sure what is what. However, Nadal did look rather subpeak at FO 2011, also Wim 2011 was rather sloppy regardless of Novak playing a great match.

So Nadal is still in prime, however he is not playing peak anymore. Perhaps that will change next year, but I am not sure Nadal has his head 100% in the game. He does not seem to be trying as hard, and seems he has other stuff on his mind.
Click to expand...

So Nadal's not playing his best tennis at the age of 25 because:

-He looked subpeak at FO
-He looked sloppy at Wimbledon
-He isn't trying as hard
-His head isn't 100 in the game
-He has other stuff on his mind(like fishing maybe?)

Do these qualify as "observations" ? They're not excuses, right?

I'm also quite curious where do you see Nadal at the age of 30?
 
C

CMM

Legend
zagor said:
So that's a no?
Click to expand...

Maybe. Maybe not. Things change very fast in tennis and trying to predict the future is stupid. I think last year no one would have predicted that Djokovic will lose only 2 matches until September.
Even if he is declining, that doesn't mean he won't be able to win important titles.
 
M

Magnetite

Professional
We should give him at least another 6 months before deciding that he's declining as a tennis player.

He's played great tennis for most of the year, including the FO, and Wimbledon (I know the final was lackluster). He could lose in the first round of the USO, and still come back and win 3 out of 4 majors next year. He learned how to beat Federer, and it's thus, not inconceivable that he can figure out how to beat Djokovic.

I personally don't know if he's in decline or not, it's far too early to determine that.

We can all guess either way, and come back here a year later and do the "I told you so" routine, but at this point it's just a 50/50 bet.
 
M

Magnetite

Professional
At this point we can only say that he's out of form, he needs some healing time, and/or he's in a mental funk.

All of which he can potentially heal from.

It's not like Federer, who has lost some foot speed and will never play tennis consistently, at the high level he did from 2006 - 2008 or so.
 
zagor

zagor

Bionic Poster
beast of mallorca said:
Ha,ha,ha .....that picture alone made zagor's blood boil. I love that !
More pictures CMM :)
Click to expand...

Not really, I was merely impertating the gif she posted as an answer to OP's question(as in "no" because he won a slam this year) but if thinking that makes you feel better feel free to do so.

PS. Certain Nadal fans always made my blood boil more than Nadal himself could ever dream of.

CMM said:
Maybe. Maybe not. Things change very fast in tennis and trying to predict the future is stupid. I think last year no one would have predicted that Djokovic will lose only 2 matches until September.
Even if he is declining, that doesn't mean he won't be able to win important titles.
Click to expand...

Well said. Who would have thought Nadal would went on to dominate 2010 after the way he looked at 2nd half of 2009(especially WTF where he looked horrible and failed to win a single match) or that Novak would go on a tear this year after barely getting wins against top 10 players in 2010 and making more double faults than aces throghout that year.

What we do know is that Nadal has reached 2 slam finals this year and won one, for any standards that's already a great year. Who knows what will happen in 2012, whether Novak's level will drop or Nadal will figure him out, etc. It's very hard to predict.
 
cknobman

cknobman

Legend
The losses to Djokovic earlier this year have taken a toll on Nadal mentally.

Before that Nadal was in the zone where he was just going out an laying into people not over thinking things.

The losses to Djoker have Nadal tired and thinking too much on court reverting to more defensive tactics instead of offensive.
 
jackson vile

jackson vile

G.O.A.T.
cknobman said:
The losses to Djokovic earlier this year have taken a toll on Nadal mentally.

Before that Nadal was in the zone where he was just going out an laying into people not over thinking things.

The losses to Djoker have Nadal tired and thinking too much on court reverting to more defensive tactics instead of offensive.
Click to expand...

No, that is just icing on the cake. Nadal looked burnt out after USO, he pushed hard for the WTF and could not get it done.

That is why I am not sure if Novak is playing god tennis, or if Nadal and Federer being lazy SOBs? Regardless Novak deserves the credit.
 
C

chrischris

G.O.A.T.
Cakewalk draw at the Open may get his confidence back in time for the 2nd week... He is not down and out yet imo but he is a guy that could become a burnout ,no doubt.
 
TennisFan3

TennisFan3

Talk Tennis Guru
zagor said:
So Nadal's not playing his best tennis at the age of 25..

I'm also quite curious where do you see Nadal at the age of 30?
Click to expand...

Nadal's match win-loss record this year is 53-10 i.e 84%.

This is the WORST winning ratio he's EVER posted since 2004 (the year he didn't win a slam). So, his game apart, the results are going south.

Again, Nadal continuing till 30 is Science Fiction. He's himself asserted categorically that he won't be playing anywhere close to that, given how early he started. What happened this year with Djokovic might put Nadal closer to calling it a day. The timing of the autobiography may be indicative. What motivation is there to EVEN TRY to overcome a seemingly insurmountable challenge (as Djokovic's is) when Nadal has already achieved so much.

See at the end of the day - Nadal doesn't enjoy Tennis in the same way as Federer does. Fed loves traveling. He has a very supportive wife who goes with him everywhere. Nadal despises traveling. He is a homeboy who would rather stay at the beach or fish in Spain.

Nadal also works incredibly hard practicing, whereas Fed can generally take it easy. It's like a guy who I used to know during school. He was good enough to ace his classes and get a 4.0, but he wouldn't be satisfied until he put hours and hours studying.
For Fed, tennis is fun, but for Nadal it's a job.

Sure Nadal may be fine physically for a few more years. But it's the mental part and the motivation which is taking a dip. Sort of what happened to Borg.

Finally (despite Talk tennis where people constantly compare Fed to Nadal) I really doubt whether Nadal ever aimed or expected to get near Pete/Fed's slam total.
His career management has always been short term unlike Federer who always thought BIG and long term. I saw in interview from Fed in early 2005, and he said that he would adjust his schedule for the long term. He just didn't want to be a #1 and win a bunch of titles. He wanted to dominate tennis for several years and try to get as many slams as possible. So Fed was clear about his goals right from the start...
 
zagor

zagor

Bionic Poster
jackson vile said:
You are such a drama queen LOL

http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa331/jacksonvile/****scrying.gif
Click to expand...

Oh poor LOLville, has to resort to posting some lame gifs when he's backed in the corner by his own BS.

You're such a hypocrite. I look forward to further "observations" from you in the future.

TennisFan3 said:
Nadal's match win-loss record this year is 53-10 i.e 84%.

This is the WORST winning ratio he's EVER posted since 2004 (the year he didn't win a slam). So, his game apart, the results are going south.

Again, Nadal continuing till 30 is Science Fiction. He's himself asserted categorically that he won't be playing anywhere close to that, given how early he started. What happened this year with Djokovic might put Nadal closer to calling it a day. The timing of the autobiography may be indicative. What motivation is there to EVEN TRY to overcome a seemingly insurmountable challenge (as Djokovic's is) when Nadal has already achieved so much.

See at the end of the day - Nadal doesn't enjoy Tennis in the same way as Federer does. Fed loves traveling. He has a very supportive wife who goes with him everywhere. Nadal despises traveling. He is a homeboy who would rather stay at the beach or fish in Spain.

Nadal also works incredibly hard practicing, whereas Fed can generally take it easy. It's like a guy who I used to know during school. He was good enough to ace his classes and get a 4.0, but he wouldn't be satisfied until he put hours and hours studying.
For Fed, tennis is fun, but for Nadal it's a job.

Sure Nadal may be fine physically for a few more years. But it's the mental part and the motivation which is taking a dip. Sort of what happened to Borg.

Finally (despite Talk tennis where people constantly compare Fed to Nadal) I really doubt whether Nadal ever aimed or expected to get near Pete/Fed's slam total.
His career management has always been short term unlike Federer who always thought BIG and long term. I saw in interview from Fed in early 2005, and he said that he would adjust his schedule for the long term. He just didn't want to be a #1 and win a bunch of titles. He wanted to dominate tennis for several years and try to get as many slams as possible. So Fed was clear about his goals right from the start...
Click to expand...

No offense but I already know your stance, I was asking LOLville those questions for specific reasons and predictably he has no response, I should probably give up this habit of trying to match wits with an unarmed man.
 
OddJack

OddJack

G.O.A.T.
Considering his own comments, I think he is mentally tired.

.."It looks like I have been playing for 100 years"..

..." The mental part for me is very dangerous"... after W defeat.

He is older than 25 in tennis age. Consider the number of years he has been on tour.

Rodge made an interesting comment, he said Rafa, unlike others, was winning as a teenager, unlike others who come on tour and keep losing till they find their form. So he has been palying lots of matches with his fight to the bone mentality, thats not easy to keep up for a decade.
 
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