Awful behavior on the courts

Woolybugger said:

At last weekend's Texas Zone Area Tournament (ZAT) 12 boys, I saw some appalling behavior from the junior that leads me to ask - Why does tennis bring out the worst in people?
1) 3 different kids crying, sobbing, after losing an early-round match.
2) Parents coaching from the stands against the rules. One dad was yelling at the opponent, an 11yr old boy, for calling a ball out after 2 rallies had passed. The opponent broke down, sat on the court and cried while his kid just stood around. Went on for 10mins until he regained his composure and continued. The yelling dad was unapologetic.
3) Kid arguing with the official about a line call. I saw it was clearly in by 1 foot, kid kept arguing was out. Official stood his ground. Kid lost the match 2 point later and cussed out the official in spanish, shook his fist and stormed off the court. His dad patted him on the back.
4) Dads standing behind the back fence secretly coaching their kids.

Parents.... what are you teaching your kids?

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Woolybugger said:

At last weekend's Texas Zone Area Tournament (ZAT) 12 boys, I saw some appalling behavior from the junior that leads me to ask - Why does tennis bring out the worst in people?
1) 3 different kids crying, sobbing, after losing an early-round match.
2) Parents coaching from the stands against the rules. One dad was yelling at the opponent, an 11yr old boy, for calling a ball out after 2 rallies had passed. The opponent broke down, sat on the court and cried while his kid just stood around. Went on for 10mins until he regained his composure and continued. The yelling dad was unapologetic.
3) Kid arguing with the official about a line call. I saw it was clearly in by 1 foot, kid kept arguing was out. Official stood his ground. Kid lost the match 2 point later and cussed out the official in spanish, shook his fist and stormed off the court. His dad patted him on the back.
4) Dads standing behind the back fence secretly coaching their kids.

Parents.... what are you teaching your kids?

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Power Player said:

Suresh, after 20,000 posts it is considered honorable to stop trolling.

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Wuppy said:

Federer used to cry for a half hour under the umpire's chair when he lost a match.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/22/sports/tennis/22bagel.html

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Woolybugger said:

At last weekend's Texas Zone Area Tournament (ZAT) 12 boys, I saw some appalling behavior from the junior that leads me to ask - Why does tennis bring out the worst in people?
1) 3 different kids crying, sobbing, after losing an early-round match.
2) Parents coaching from the stands against the rules. One dad was yelling at the opponent, an 11yr old boy, for calling a ball out after 2 rallies had passed. The opponent broke down, sat on the court and cried while his kid just stood around. Went on for 10mins until he regained his composure and continued. The yelling dad was unapologetic.
3) Kid arguing with the official about a line call. I saw it was clearly in by 1 foot, kid kept arguing was out. Official stood his ground. Kid lost the match 2 point later and cussed out the official in spanish, shook his fist and stormed off the court. His dad patted him on the back.
4) Dads standing behind the back fence secretly coaching their kids.

Parents.... what are you teaching your kids?

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Mitch Bridge said:

Kids are going to behave as poorly as their parents will allow. Officials need to pull the trigger on warnings and point penalties much earlier and not try to talk so much to the kids because then the kids feel like they can talk their way out of situations. If a parent becomes involved in a match verbally the kid receives a warning or point penalty. This will keep things under control most of the time.

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slice bh compliment said:

Wait until college tennis. Even when there's a chair, it's bad.

Parents and coaches just have to hold the kids accountable for their actions and emphasize winning or losing with dignity and class. Until everyone is united on that, there will be jerks at every tournament.

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slice bh compliment said:

Wait until college tennis. Even when there's a chair, it's bad.

Parents and coaches just have to hold the kids accountable for their actions and emphasize winning or losing with dignity and class. Until everyone is united on that, there will be jerks at every tournament.

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Woolybugger said:

Yes, my kids are new to competitive tennis and I'm beginning to see that tennis is very adversarial, dog-eat-dog, win at all costs. No wonder there's so much cheating, bad behavior and mind games. It starts when young and goes all the way to the pros, and vice versa - kids pick up what the pros do and think it is cool to throw tantrums, smash racquets and yell at umpires.

Many of you say the bad behavior is common, and is even worse than what I've witnessed. Question to you is - will you perpetuate the normal or go against the crowd and do the right thing? Why can't players treat each other with respect and consideration while still playing their best tennis? Does common decency and manners get left on the sidelines during the game?

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Woolybugger said:

Yes, my kids are new to competitive tennis and I'm beginning to see that tennis is very adversarial, dog-eat-dog, win at all costs. No wonder there's so much cheating, bad behavior and mind games. It starts when young and goes all the way to the pros, and vice versa - kids pick up what the pros do and think it is cool to throw tantrums, smash racquets and yell at umpires.

Many of you say the bad behavior is common, and is even worse than what I've witnessed. Question to you is - will you perpetuate the normal or go against the crowd and do the right thing? Why can't players treat each other with respect and consideration while still playing their best tennis? Does common decency and manners get left on the sidelines during the game?

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pvaudio said:

Truth on a bagel with lox.

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chalkflewup said:

Sounding off on a forum is a step in the right direction as you'll get some guidance and options.

I would encourage you to file a grievance with the section. The repeat offenders must be put on notice. If another kid is victimized by the same chronic cheater (kid or parent), have that parent file a grievance. Just the facts and no emotion. I've seen this work. Preface your grievance with something along the lines... "the following grievance is entirely my opinion and is based on my interpretation of the match" or something along those lines.

If that approach is to radical for your liking, have your coach reach out to his coach. These coaches are professionals and don't want to be associated with having a clientele renowned for cheating.

Hope that helps.

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High Rustler said:

We all know what the rule books say, but this in inherently subjective topic. My $.02 as a tennis parent, I just keep MY mouth shut during the match. I will silently do the fist pump to my child when he wins a big point, and occasionally I will make a motion that means let ball drop before you hit it, or swing through your shot (he will bunt from time-to-time), is that illegal coaching? That's about it. I don't correct score whether against, or for. I don't verbally cheer the other player. If the other kid shows a lot of integrity on the court I will say so AFTER the match, to both the parent and the kid, which I do 1/2 to 1/3rd of the time.

My kids know better than to cry, throw tanthems, etc. They will occasionally "Grrrrrr" loudly or holler at themselves on a bad shot but thats about it. They will make bad calls BOTH ways. I haven't yet seen a match that didn't have a bad call in it, both my son and the other player. [/B] Both have been hooked, and it's a shame, but there is nothing that can be done about it, so we move on.

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Alohajrtennis said:

Every "bad call" is not cheating, there is something called an honest mistake. Sometimes they just don't see it they way we do. In fact, watching a match from the sides we have a much better view of whether a ball is long or not than they do. I get so frustrated watching my daughter play serves that are 6 inches long instead of calling it out but unfortunately, given her height an perspective, that a very difficult call to see, so she gives them the benefit of the doubt, as she should, and plays it. It works out becuase most of her opponents will play her serve when its obviously long(to us on the side lines). The kids on the court actually have a better view of whether of whether balls are wide or not than we do, unless we are sitting behind the court.

In any case, I find it difficult to believe that your son has never been accused of making a bad call. My daughter has on several occasions that I have witnessed run into players accusing her of making bad calls where the ball was clearly out from both my and her perspective, but the other accusing player was erroneously convinced otherwise. On some of these occasions my daughter let her self be intimidated and gave into her opponents demands. Like I said, every "bad call" is not cheating, i think honest mistakes and false accusations are just as if not more common.

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Alohajrtennis said:

Every "bad call" is not cheating, there is something called an honest mistake. Sometimes they just don't see it they way we do. In fact, watching a match from the sides we have a much better view of whether a ball is long or not than they do. I get so frustrated watching my daughter play serves that are 6 inches long instead of calling it out but unfortunately, given her height an perspective, that a very difficult call to see, so she gives them the benefit of the doubt, as she should, and plays it. It works out becuase most of her opponents will play her serve when its obviously long(to us on the side lines). The kids on the court actually have a better view of whether of whether balls are wide or not than we do, unless we are sitting behind the court.

In any case, I find it difficult to believe that your son has never been accused of making a bad call. My daughter has on several occasions that I have witnessed run into players accusing her of making bad calls where the ball was clearly out from both my and her perspective, but the other accusing player was erroneously convinced otherwise. On some of these occasions my daughter let her self be intimidated and gave into her opponents demands. Like I said, every "bad call" is not cheating, i think honest mistakes and false accusations are just as if not more common.

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High Rustler said:

We all know what the rule books say, but this in inherently subjective topic. My $.02 as a tennis parent, I just keep MY mouth shut during the match. I will silently do the fist pump to my child when he wins a big point, and occasionally I will make a motion that means let ball drop before you hit it, or swing through your shot (he will bunt from time-to-time), is that illegal coaching? That's about it. I don't correct score whether against, or for. I don't verbally cheer the other player. If the other kid shows a lot of integrity on the court I will say so AFTER the match, to both the parent and the kid, which I do 1/2 to 1/3rd of the time.

My kids know better than to cry, throw tanthems, etc. They will occasionally "Grrrrrr" loudly or holler at themselves on a bad shot but thats about it. They will make bad calls BOTH ways. I haven't yet seen a match that didn't have a bad call in it, both my son and the other player. Both have been hooked, and it's a shame, but there is nothing that can be done about it, so we move on.

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High Rustler said:

We all know what the rule books say, but this in inherently subjective topic. My $.02 as a tennis parent, I just keep MY mouth shut during the match. I will silently do the fist pump to my child when he wins a big point, and occasionally I will make a motion that means let ball drop before you hit it, or swing through your shot (he will bunt from time-to-time), is that illegal coaching? That's about it. I don't correct score whether against, or for. I don't verbally cheer the other player. If the other kid shows a lot of integrity on the court I will say so AFTER the match, to both the parent and the kid, which I do 1/2 to 1/3rd of the time.

My kids know better than to cry, throw tanthems, etc. They will occasionally "Grrrrrr" loudly or holler at themselves on a bad shot but thats about it. They will make bad calls BOTH ways. I haven't yet seen a match that didn't have a bad call in it, both my son and the other player. Both have been hooked, and it's a shame, but there is nothing that can be done about it, so we move on.

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tennis5 said:

High Rustler,

"]My son has never had a call questioned, and I am going to venture that a lot of parents would say the same.

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tennis5 said:

Of course, now none of the young kids will ever experience a Winter National or an Easter Bowl in their junior lifetime,
so unfortunate that it was "hard to believe" when we really needed the parents on this board to spread the word.

So, this is just a typical day on this board.

Which is why I don't post as much here anymore either.

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High Rustler said:

I do not think you are being realisitc tennis5. Do you really beleive your kids make perfect calls?

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tennis5 said:

Curious if this is a common problem that other kids have in terms of having difficulty telling if the first serve is in or out?

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Misterbill said:

I do not think it is a typical day on the Board for someone to say, as you do, that "none of the young kids will ever experience a Winter National or an Easter Bowl in their junior lifetime..."

In fact, I think you are the only one who posts stuff like this.

Tournaments like Winter Nationals and Easter Bowls are not entitlements....even for those who win sportsmanship awards. They are special achievements that require special talents and special work ethics.

Any young players out there who think you have these attributes......go for it. The journey, itself, will be its own reward!

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pvaudio said:

I played as a junior, and am now a grad student. So, I've been in matches in the juniors where the behavior was simply diabolical. The other posters are right. You're going to get more childish behavior in the 12s and 14s. Once you get into the 16s, you'll see that the kids start to get a bit more feisty. Once you're in the 18s, truly anything is possible. I've seen thrown chairs, broken net straps, verbal abuse...at the audience, racquets thrown into trees (although the kid's parent whom I still know made him go into the site's facilities, request a ladder and go get it himself before he played another point. Gave props for that one), and any kind of cheating you can imagine.

You know the "if you can't agree on the score, go back to the score you both recall" rule? Yeah, server is up 30-0 having served two aces, hits an unreturnable serve for 40-0. Opponent calls out 40-30 just prior to the serve. Official is called. I'm on the next court having just won my game. My opponent, who is a fantastic guy who I still hit with whenever I'm at home, just stare in amazement as after 10mins of deliberations, they start the game over at 0-0. Server's parents are in uproar, returner's parents are siding with their kid. Server loses the game 0-40, but luckily wins the match since the official is now watching.

The point of my story is this: you cannot change your opponents' behavior. You can change your kid's behavior. You teach him and instill in him values of respect and sportsmanship above all else. If there are two cheating calls, let the first go with a stare to show you know it was a bad call. Question the second. Official on the third. Cheaters crack once called on their mistakes by an official watching. You simply need to enforce those tools at your disposal because as you said: it's ugly out there. It isn't this bad in college tennis, although I have seen some pretty petty behavior. I'm sad to say that it usually stems from their junior experiences. Luckily, our guys are great and don't pull this kind of nonsense...probably because the coach is massive and could twist them into a pretzel if they tried to

Oh, and most importantly: cheaters do get what's coming to them. Parents, tourney directors and coaches quickly learn who is a great sportsman/woman, and who is not. Seen it numerous times, and you'll really see this in the bigger tennis areas like Florida and California where even if your kid loses to a cheater, an academy director or coach will talk to your kid about an offer instead. That is not uncommon; no one wants to be associated with a cheater. The thing about college tennis is since many kids are international, that's a lot harder to screen for the non-US students.

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Misterbill said:

.....In fact, I think you are the only one who posts stuff like this.

Tournaments like Winter Nationals and Easter Bowls are not entitlements....even for those who win sportsmanship awards. They are special achievements that require special talents and special work ethics.

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hound 109 said:

Please advise how my talented junior with a great work ethic will be able to compete in a Winternational in 2014? (or 2015-2017?)

(Jeez.....you've got to have huevos grandes to attack a person at the same time you don't have your facts straight.)

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Misterbill said:

I said, "Tournaments like Winter Nationals..."

The only person attacking anyone here is.........you.

No wonder you got kicked out of the Longhorns thread..........post #177, College Forum

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hound 109 said:

"Kicked Out"?

I'm just waiting for someone to give me a logical reason why i should be proud my alma mater is recruiting 20 year olds.......who are non-americans. All I'm reading are posts by the same 3-4 people who have an agenda (wanting scholarships & team members to be 100% older non-americans). I'll post again in there. The OP who asked me to leave.... also asked me a question in the same post. Some of those (so-called) Longhorns seem pretty confused right now.

Back tennis5s original comment. (that you attacked him/her on) The only two L1s that will be available for US juniors (with draws over 16) starting in 2014 will be in late July & early August. Leaving an 11 month window (no spring, no winter). If a talented 14 y/o or 16 y/o gets got hot the final 4-6 months in the year & is suddenly one of the top 2-3 kids in the country.....he has no where to prove it, no where to show it. The other 3-4 L1s that they've created is reserved for the top 10 from the previous 12 months & the 4-6 wildcards reserved for Boca dudes. & this is good for American tennis?

Back to the OP.....at the last L1 & L2s that i attended, behaviour is about the same as the sectional tournaments that I've observed. I see about 10% of the kids cheating or quasi cheating & another 10% with boorish bahaviour. The other 80% of the kids (& parents) are great.
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