Yeah, I mentioned at the end of last year, lost double bagels to a finalist in the men's 65's around here. I've since played him only in doubles, twice, and he seldom get's a point off me, once I figured he was redirecting short, low, skidded balls ONLY. His weakness is high bouncing balls hit to his backhand side, and on his forehand, only guides them low with sidespin.
He was 67, in fine shape. I was 62, hadn't run in 4 years then.
Next time you see someone like him, hit loopers to his backhand, make him run forwards with your drop shots, then lob him right at the beginning of the match, to test his running skills. He obviously ate up conventional topspin groundies, so you need to try Plan's B and C.
Nice story. I had a similar experience in doubles. We saw our opponents were 30 years older than us. They had knee braces, forearm braces, ankle braces, elbow braces, they had braces for parts I didn't know you had. We looked at these old guys and thought how easy this match was going to be. They were old and couldn't move. They didn't have to. They placed the ball so well that we didn't have any choice in where to return it. They knew by the shot they hit where we would hit it and simply would move there and put away a volley. We were right about it being an easy match though. Double bagel in under 30 minutes. Now when I see old guys with braces, I just cringe.
: hands Fuji a steaming mug of hot cocoa :
I'm sorry, dude. Sounds awful.
I'd love to be able to implement a different plan, but I wasn't able to get my footing at all, I was always on the defensive, trying to make offence out of nothing. Guy was just playing what I would call perfect tennis against mine. I'll definitely have to try more slices, both short and long next time I play someone like this to hopefully give me some more time? He ate whatever high ball I was able to give him.
-Fuji
If the guy hits with no pace how where you not able to set up to the ball? No pace ought to give you more time to set up. Sounds like you should have rushed the net on every point, force him to hit some real shots or lose.
Tough luck. Have a beer (18's legal in Canada eh?) One day you will be an old crafty dude.
Sounds like the gamesmanship started in the warm up. Not letting you do wind sprints, and giving you "super soft, no rhythm shots and running you ragged off the court." That's why you weren't able to get your footing during the match.
Honestly, that came into my mind as well, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I really hope he wasn't doing it, but it does linger that he was. Like he was painting the lines and going for angles right in the warm up, rather then trying to get a steady rhythm going. I would have appreciated a good warm up rather then what I got, but more power to him for playing so well without warming up with me really. He was better prepared then I was!
Also, I love your Sig. That episode of the Office always makes me laugh!
-Fuji
Typical Pusher story man. They never properly warm up and fish for weaknesses/test the waters on how quick you are at getting to shots while the warm up happens. It's ******** and whenever I run into it, I walk off the warmup and say I'm good to go or if they want to continue hit everything off the court and let them fish for balls while I want on the next feed, rinse and repeat. This usually pisses them off quite a bit and sometimes buys you the first few games if you can hit string angle winners. Problem is, Pushers like this are sometimes very patient and relaxed and like to mess with you mentally and this tactic, while not allowing them to fish for info during warmup, doesn't mess with their minds too much. That's usually when the occasional body shot comes into play followed by the "I'm sorry I hit you with that serve that didn't touch the court first, I'm not very good."
That usually works to **** them off a bit.
Here's the deal. If you're a legit/cool player who respects the other opponent, you get respect back. One wins, the other loses. A match always ends like this. However, if you're the typical pusher jerk, I'm going to screw with you every chance I get, even if I have to lose, I'm going to make you hate that you played me. I have ZERO respect for hack and slash Pusher guys. I've played plenty of old good players who are just playing me off the courts because they're good. I have no problem losing to an offensive legit player who's outplaying me, but never have these players ever been jerks like what you're describing.
Hey all,
I hope I never have to play him again, as I still don't know know what I could do to beat him, almost exactly 24 hours later.
-Fuji
Whoever thinks this guy is a pusher is crazy, this guy's a real player. 0-6, 0-6 in a half hour is not losing to a pusher in anyway. The five minute "warm-up" is not for warming-up, it's to find your opponent's weaknesses. The real warm-up should have been done on a practice court beforehand. If I came to the court to play a tennis match and my opponent went jogging on me, I'd be pissed off too. You do that stuff before taking possession of the court. Real players don't chit-chat with their opponent's, they don't even look at their faces. You may not have thought the match meant anything but it meant ranking points for him.
To many kids, anyone that doesn't hit as hard as they can is a pusher. The OP made it very clear that this was a skilled player that basically toyed around with him on the court.
Some people just can't give credit to an older player that uses angles and finesse (not referring to the OP).
I am suspicious about a 4.0 who can hit out-wide serves with perfect placement from both courts, hits every service return perfectly deep, and paints the lines and produces unbelievable angles.
Is this a 5.0 sandbagger? Someone who played college tennis and has just softened his strokes to expend less energy as he got older?
That is a humbling experience... but not knowing you, or not having watched the match, you give a few clues about some minor things that may be important FOR YOU down the line...
Losing two sets in 23 minutes and 3 double faults to end the match says to me that you were rushed or feeling rushed.
It might not have changed the outcome in this match, but for future matches you might want to monitor how quickly you are jumping into points when you are losing. You get a set amount of time to gather yourself between points and during changeovers. No gamesmanship here, just suggesting you use the time wisely to focus/re-focus.
Think about your serve motion/swing speed/serve direction/ how you will follow up your serve etc as you adjust your strings before you serve, or as you bounce the ball. And on changeovers or even as you go to retrieve balls, think tactics. What should you be doing different to change the course of the match? Where does it look like your opponents has a weakness?
Slow down a little. Breathe. Think. Don't let yourself get rushed, even if you are down 0-6 0-4. You are allowed time. Use it to refocus.
Honestly I've never met the guy before this instance, but I do know he plays LOTS of doubles, and I believe he has been club champion a few times. Maybe those are just skills he's refined over the years, but as someone else noted, this was consolation so he definitely did lose to someone in the main draw.
-Fuji
Whoever thinks this guy is a pusher is crazy, this guy's a real player. 0-6, 0-6 in a half hour is not losing to a pusher in anyway. The five minute "warm-up" is not for warming-up, it's to find your opponent's weaknesses. The real warm-up should have been done on a practice court beforehand. If I came to the court to play a tennis match and my opponent went jogging on me, I'd be pissed off too. You do that stuff before taking possession of the court. Real players don't chit-chat with their opponent's, they don't even look at their faces. You may not have thought the match meant anything but it meant ranking points for him.
Something fishy about this guy.
Something's fishy alright, but it's not this champ's game--it's the absurdity of the NTRP rating system that matches an 18 year old against a 50 year old for anything besides bragging rights at the club bar. That's why Chris Evert doesn't play against Serena Williams at the USO anymore.
Something's fishy alright, but it's not this champ's game--it's the absurdity of the NTRP rating system that matches an 18 year old against a 50 year old for anything besides bragging rights at the club bar. That's why Chris Evert doesn't play against Serena Williams at the USO anymore.
Not sure I understand what you mean by this,
I am suspicious about a 4.0 who can hit out-wide serves with perfect placement from both courts, hits every service return perfectly deep, and paints the lines and produces unbelievable angles.
Is this a 5.0 sandbagger? Someone who played college tennis and has just softened his strokes to expend less energy as he got older?
Since they were playing in the losers bracket this older guy already lost. So unless he lost to another even better sandbagger I highly doubt it.
My most likely guess is the OP is probably a 3.5 level player, but thinks of himself as 4.0+ because he hits with university players that are 4.5+.
Or perhaps the old guy is such a good sandbagger that he lost on purpose to the eventual winner
Even if he was truly a 4.0, don't you think double bagel is a little fishy against a 3.5?
That is a humbling experience... but not knowing you, or not having watched the match, you give a few clues about some minor things that may be important FOR YOU down the line...
Losing two sets in 23 minutes and 3 double faults to end the match says to me that you were rushed or feeling rushed.
It might not have changed the outcome in this match, but for future matches you might want to monitor how quickly you are jumping into points when you are losing. You get a set amount of time to gather yourself between points and during changeovers. No gamesmanship here, just suggesting you use the time wisely to focus/re-focus.
Think about your serve motion/swing speed/serve direction/ how you will follow up your serve etc as you adjust your strings before you serve, or as you bounce the ball. And on changeovers or even as you go to retrieve balls, think tactics. What should you be doing different to change the course of the match? Where does it look like your opponents has a weakness?
Slow down a little. Breathe. Think. Don't let yourself get rushed, even if you are down 0-6 0-4. You are allowed time. Use it to refocus.
Match results like this are not such anomalies as you'd think.
There's always one very big unmentioned factor.
In this case, Fuji has mentioned several times over the past 2 months that he was injured and hadn't practiced as of late. Possibly 4 months.
This contributes a huge amount when the sides are even, and one player uses a wierdo game that is counter to what is being practiced by university level and age players.
OP is probably a 4.5-5 level player when he's IN FORM, in good shape, and mentally tough playing a modern player.
But OP had been injured for most of this past summer, hadn't played regularly, and the cobwebs fresh in his mind.
Match tough, I'd bet the outcome going the opposite way.
I recently lost 2 & 2 to an overweight 60yo in 4.5 singles.
Before the match I thought I would crush him. His movement was quite poor.
But once we started... basically anything he could get a racquet on, he would hit a winner off. I could barely return any of his serves. Adequate power, but more importantly, every serve perfectly placed in a corner. On my serve, he stood in and took it early. I served a bunch of aces. But when not an ace, the guy had amazing racquet control and could make every return deep and hard into a corner.
After the match he told me he was a former D1 player and was ranked top 5 NCAA many many years ago.
I just wanted to add in here, yes I am a 4.0 player. I play in 4.0 league with good results. As LeeD pointed out, I have struggled with injuries this past summer although this definitely isnt an excuse for that bad of a loss.
Also, here we do not have .5 increments of ratings in tournaments. It goes from 4.0 to 5.0. In 4.0 tournaments we have have 4.00 to 4.99 players. Obviously this can be seen as a flaw in our system, and I believe I ran into a player obviously in the upper end of 4.0.
-Fuji
Either your not a 4.5, or the guy should be 5.0