Murray is on the up

batz said:

Hi Haturz,

I know you've been pulling the head off it/rubbing it sore since Murray lost to the world number 1 last night and I've enjoyed reading your opinions on the subject (why some of you aren't coaches I just don't know) but thought I might counter those opinions with some facts (and a couple of opinions of my own):

1. Murray has made final at 4 of the last 5 'big events', winning 2 of them. For comparative purposes, nobody else made 4 finals, only Nole won 2 of them.

2. Murray is officially world number 3 and de facto world number 2 (OK, the last one was an opinion - but one supported by plenty of evidence).

3. Murray is on the up.


Now I know that he's ugly, that he swears, that he has bad teeth, that his Mother is awful, that he's not in the same league as the other guys, that he's a pusher with no weapons and that he is one slam wonder who only got that one because of wind.

But none of that gets away from point 3. He's on the up and he's likely to win more slams.

That, my hateful chums, is the cold reality of the situation. You can wail and you can gnash your teeth. Won't change anything.

PS Congrats again to Nole for slam number 6 and the first open era AO threepeat. He Boss.

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batz said:

BLINKY! Where've you been mate? Was beginning to think you'd retired. It's been a weak Murray trolling era lately. Bawss tries hard, but bless him - he lacks your comedic talent

Nice to see you back Blink.

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Blinkism said:

Good to be back, batz.

Happy to see there's still quality posting in the General Pro Player section.

Sad to see that the Murray discussions aren't in the Former Pro Player section, yet :twisted:

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syc23 said:

What brilliant logic.

You need a brain transplant and enrol back to school.

You're having a laugh comparing Ferrer with Federer on talent levels... height does not equate to having more talent. The reason why Ferrer can't collect a slam was laid out for the world to see against Nole in their AO SF. He is a fighter for sure but lacks that extra weapon(s) that the top 4 possess.

All I'll add to this is that the tennis landscape can change very quickly. When Rafa completed the career slam, we all thought it was going to be a lock for Rafa to win 20+ slams. So what happened there?

It's not inconceivable that Murray will play anyone other than Fed/Rafa/Nole in future GS finals, if he does I'm sure he'll win his fair share. People are giving Delpo all the time in the world and argue he has a 100% slam final conversion, yet he hasn't come any where near to the form he showed in USO '09 and why isn't he getting pilloried for failing to play to his seeding in every slam since 2009?

As long as Murray is getting more opportunities in finals, sooner rather than later, he'll start to convert more into wins. Heck it only took Nole 3 years after his maiden slam win to add another AO title.

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tusharlovesrafa said:

I honestly think murray fans are the best fans in ttw.I haven't seen the likes of murray_slam_king and varies aliases trolling the forum.

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rainingaces said:

This may or may not be true but I think all nonbiased observers can see murray fans have the thinnest skin. You can see this by judging on the murray threads batz makes alone.

Murray fans show some class instead of bitterness the better player won on the day (most other days too) pick up the whiskey bottle and drown your sorrows.
The final in aus showed us that under normal circumstances djokovic is on a different level to murray and would have won the us open but for a act of god, so dont try and turn the tornado like conditions into a joke murray fans, be thankful he has one due to this unforseen act of god. If Nadal had played he would have probably won it so maybe you should count your double blessings.

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syc23 said:

What brilliant logic.

You need a brain transplant and enrol back to school.

You're having a laugh comparing Ferrer with Federer on talent levels... height does not equate to having more talent. The reason why Ferrer can't collect a slam was laid out for the world to see against Nole in their AO SF. He is a fighter for sure but lacks that extra weapon(s) that the top 4 possess.

All I'll add to this is that the tennis landscape can change very quickly. When Rafa completed the career slam, we all thought it was going to be a lock for Rafa to win 20+ slams. So what happened there?

It's not inconceivable that Murray will play anyone other than Fed/Rafa/Nole in future GS finals, if he does I'm sure he'll win his fair share. People are giving Delpo all the time in the world and argue he has a 100% slam final conversion, yet he hasn't come any where near to the form he showed in USO '09 and why isn't he getting pilloried for failing to play to his seeding in every slam since 2009?

As long as Murray is getting more opportunities in finals, sooner rather than later, he'll start to convert more into wins. Heck it only took Nole 3 years after his maiden slam win to add another AO title.

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veroniquem said:

I love British humor! Fun op batz. I'm still on the fence about Muzza though. It is true that his consistency in slams has improved BUT (there are always some of those, aren't there?), the only slam he has won has a bit of an asterisk to it (it's the 3 day in a row the other finalist had to wriggle through that does it for me- especially since the match still had to go to a 5th - Shouldn't he have pummeled the poor bugger in those wretched circumstances? I don't give a fig about the wind, if you can't handle wind on a court, then you should be looking for another job. Isn't that what Judy told Andy after IW 2009 BTW? )
And he still has an appalling record in slam finals. I know he just slay the Fed dragon at AO but he didn't manage that feat in the W final. What is he now? 1 victory in 6 slam finals? When does he improve that stat? Because it still looks unsatisfactory . (granted, he's better off making the finals than not but still)
+ in Wimbledon, he had always lost to Nadal. Is he gonna start losing to him again when Nadal gets back and Rosol retreats inside his cave (presumably)? That's a legit question.
My other problem with Murray is: what's up with the masters? No title last year. He needs to fix that. 3 titles total even if the 3 include a slam doesn't look like future #1 resume and doesn't look that much on the up either. Murray has won up to 6 titles a season in the past. He has to keep the foot on the pedal throughout the year, not just 2 months in the summer.
The 3rd problem I have is: WTF. Come on! Murray is a hard court specialist (won most of his titles there) and he doesn't even have a final at WTF? Has a worse record there than Nadal? Not acceptable for a #1 contender.
And the last problem I have with the brave Scot is: clay. So far, he's been the least competitive of the big 4 on that surface. Never made a final at RG, never scored a win vs Nadal (both Fed and Djoko have), never won a single clay title. I can forgive losing to Ferrer at RG (although given Ferrer's level in slams, I'm still gonna cringe a bit), but to Raonic? Seriously? Muzza has to sort that out because all of Nadal, Fed and Djoko are pretty formidable on the red stuff. And Murray won't get away with a blatant allergy to the dirt (not with 3 masters and 1 slam on the line)

OK, so that's all the changes I need to see from him in 2013 if he's really gonna knock on the door of the big league boys. Both Murray and Lendl have their work cut out for them. Good luck with it!!

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veroniquem said:

Batz, you're such a great poster , I almost want Murray to succeed just for your sake. You'd totally deserve it (too bad I'm a Nadalovic fan he he :twisted: )

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Frying Pan Forehand said:

murray is back to his scottish habbits, taking it up his arse

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tusharlovesrafa said:

that sounds a bit racist..

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Sid_Vicious said:

Scottish is not a race :???:

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batz said:

Hi Haturz,

I know you've been pulling the head off it/rubbing it sore since Murray lost to the world number 1 last night and I've enjoyed reading your opinions on the subject (why some of you aren't coaches I just don't know) but thought I might counter those opinions with some facts (and a couple of opinions of my own):

1. Murray has made final at 4 of the last 5 'big events', winning 2 of them. For comparative purposes, nobody else made 4 finals, only Nole won 2 of them.

2. Murray is officially world number 3 and de facto world number 2 (OK, the last one was an opinion - but one supported by plenty of evidence).

3. Murray is on the up.


Now I know that he's ugly, that he swears, that he has bad teeth, that his Mother is awful, that he's not in the same league as the other guys, that he's a pusher with no weapons and that he is one slam wonder who only got that one because of wind.

But none of that gets away from point 3. He's on the up and he's likely to win more slams.

That, my hateful chums, is the cold reality of the situation. You can wail and you can gnash your teeth. Won't change anything.

PS Congrats again to Nole for slam number 6 and the first open era AO threepeat. He Boss.

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Blinkism said:

Good to be back, batz.

Happy to see there's still quality posting in the General Pro Player section.

Sad to see that the Murray discussions aren't in the Former Pro Player section, yet :twisted:

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Prisoner of Birth said:

Last I checked, the WTF is bigger than the Olympics.

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Sid_Vicious said:

Scottish is not a race :???:

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batz said:

What's your point? Where did I say it wasn't?

Now you've mentioned it - when was the last time you saw Roger cry after winning a semi at the WTF? When have you heard Roger state at the start of the year that one of his main targets was winning the WTF?

You might think that WTF > OG - but I doubt that the majority of the players, fans and pundits would agree with you.

That's not to demean the WTF - in a normal year it's the 5th biggest event - but in an Olympic year? I'm not so sure.

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batz said:

Hi Haturz,

I know you've been pulling the head off it/rubbing it sore since Murray lost to the world number 1 last night and I've enjoyed reading your opinions on the subject (why some of you aren't coaches I just don't know) but thought I might counter those opinions with some facts (and a couple of opinions of my own):

1. Murray has made final at 4 of the last 5 'big events', winning 2 of them. For comparative purposes, nobody else made 4 finals, only Nole won 2 of them.

2. Murray is officially world number 3 and de facto world number 2 (OK, the last one was an opinion - but one supported by plenty of evidence).

3. Murray is on the up.


Now I know that he's ugly, that he swears, that he has bad teeth, that his Mother is awful, that he's not in the same league as the other guys, that he's a pusher with no weapons and that he is one slam wonder who only got that one because of wind.

But none of that gets away from point 3. He's on the up and he's likely to win more slams.

That, my hateful chums, is the cold reality of the situation. You can wail and you can gnash your teeth. Won't change anything.

PS Congrats again to Nole for slam number 6 and the first open era AO threepeat. He Boss.

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from AO 11 to USO 11, he was certainly on the up. but for the last 4 months, from USO 11 to AO 11, he was on the stagnant

batz said:

Hi Haturz,

I know you've been pulling the head off it/rubbing it sore since Murray lost to the world number 1 last night and I've enjoyed reading your opinions on the subject (why some of you aren't coaches I just don't know) but thought I might counter those opinions with some facts (and a couple of opinions of my own):

1. Murray has made final at 4 of the last 5 'big events', winning 2 of them. For comparative purposes, nobody else made 4 finals, only Nole won 2 of them.

2. Murray is officially world number 3 and de facto world number 2 (OK, the last one was an opinion - but one supported by plenty of evidence).

3. Murray is on the up.


Now I know that he's ugly, that he swears, that he has bad teeth, that his Mother is awful, that he's not in the same league as the other guys, that he's a pusher with no weapons and that he is one slam wonder who only got that one because of wind.

But none of that gets away from point 3. He's on the up and he's likely to win more slams.

That, my hateful chums, is the cold reality of the situation. You can wail and you can gnash your teeth. Won't change anything.

PS Congrats again to Nole for slam number 6 and the first open era AO threepeat. He Boss.

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batz said:

What's your point? Where did I say it wasn't?

Now you've mentioned it - when was the last time you saw Roger cry after winning a semi at the WTF? When have you heard Roger state at the start of the year that one of his main targets was winning the WTF?

You might think that WTF > OG - but I doubt that the majority of the players, fans and pundits would agree with you.

That's not to demean the WTF - in a normal year it's the 5th biggest event - but in an Olympic year? I'm not so sure.

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batz said:

1. Murray has made final at 4 of the last 5 'big events', winning 2 of them. For comparative purposes, nobody else made 4 finals, only Nole won 2 of them.

2. Murray is officially world number 3 and de facto world number 2 (OK, the last one was an opinion - but one supported by plenty of evidence).

3. Murray is on the up.

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Prisoner of Birth said:

Okay, my mistake. I thought you weren't counting the WTF.

Now onto the "Federer crying" part, as if that means anything. But I'll get to it.

Federer only cares about the Olympics because he didn't win it yet. As a young guy coming up, what do you think Federer would have most wanted to win? Wimbledon or the French Open? Wimbledon. ANYBODY would want Wimbledon over the French Open. But, BOOM, it's 2008. What would Federer want most? French Open. Why? Because he had 5 Wimbledons already. Does it mean French Open > Wimbledon? No. It's the same with the WTF and the Olympics. You think Federer would want the Olympic Gold over the WTF if he didn't have 6 freakin' WTF titles already? How pathetic would it be for a player not to win the WTF to call himself the GOAT? Tennis at the Olympics, on the other hand, has relatively no history to speak of. It's played on different surfaces at different places once every 4 years. You call that history? It holds 750 ATP points. You call that "big"? In pure Tennis terms, the Olympic Gold is nothing, NOTHING compared to the Tennis Masters Cup. One would have to be deluded to say otherwise. But as a sporting achievement, factoring in patriotism and national pride, it is arguably more coveted. But, I repeat, in no way is it even close to being bigger as far as Tennis, competition, and the challenge is concerned.

That said, Federer has an Olympic Gold. It is worth no less than Murray's. That's how the Olympics works. Unlike Tennis, where a player would trade 5 Doubles Grand Slams for 1 Singles Grand Slam.

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batz said:

OK - let's leave Fed to one side. How come Delpo said his bronze was as big as if not bigger than his USO win? How come Novak made it one of his priorities of 2012? How come Rafa texted Murray after he won it that he'd never win anything bigger? How come Andre says it's his proudest achievement?

Don't tell me how unimportant Olympic tennis is mate - tell the players.

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timnz said:

He definitely is on the up. Please elaborate what you mean about him making the final 4 out of the last 5 big events. The last 5 were AO, WTF, USO, Wimbledon and the French Open. He made 3 of those finals. Now if you mean the olympics - it isn't one of the big five - it is the number 15 event of 2012 (750 points). Still a good record none the less.

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Prisoner of Birth said:

Patriotism.

And of course Nadal and Agassi would say that. Federer and Sampras don't have it, that's one way they're gonna look better.

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batz said:

Look mate- you can look to diminish Olympic tennis all you want - that's your prerogative. But you are at odds with current players, former legends, and the general tennis commentariat.

Can you explain why so many players made the Olympics a major priority last year if it wasn't one of the big events?

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batz said:

This is an infantile argument - you can do better than that.

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raging said:

Ask Pete what is missing from his playing record... it will be RG & Olympics.

No reason to talk about it unless someone asks you.

Sampras was being asked about his Grand Slam Record...now he is being asked about his regrets.

He certainly won't be asked how many times he won the WTF...

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Prisoner of Birth said:

Nobody says Sampras is missing the Olympics. He didn't even bother playing.

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raging said:

sorry mate! he played in 1992 - Barcelona I think, lost to Andrei Cherkasov in 5 sets. Clay not his best surface I know.

But they said that about Agassi too!

Ask Pete about that match...Barcelona still hurts.

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batz said:

Look mate- you can look to diminish Olympic tennis all you want - that's your prerogative. But you are at odds with current players, former legends, and the general tennis commentariat.

Can you explain why so many players made the Olympics a major priority last year if it wasn't one of the big events?

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raging said:

No worries on Olympics but Pete has also said he would have loved to have played the Olympic event at Wimbledon on grass (funny that!).
The point is that to the players it is important, regardless of how many points the ITF gives them.

The Olympic Gold is important to the players now & for our purposes a good signpost that Murray is on the up. The US Open & AO final are 2 more indicators.

We can only judge Murray on his improved play & the fact he is getting into finals of major events. Djokovic, Federer, Nadal & all the rest of the tour are going to be in the way at the very next event.

Murray will be even hungrier for a win.

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Mainad said:

Good article from Lendl. I think he had it spot on.

I liked these comments best:

"Lendl said: “Other than when Andy lost to Novak here in 2011 he has always played the No.1 player in the world in the finals, those are difficult to win.

“Andre Agassi beat Rainer Schuettler (world No.36), I beat Miloslva Mecir. I’m not saying they were bad players.

“However, they were not No.1 at the time they were in the finals."

That should put his GS final losses into some kind of proper perspective. Unlike some of the armchair critics on here, Lendl actually knows what he's talking about!

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axel89 said:

just to prove batz's point When delpo won the bronze medal he said it was a bigger achievment than the uso

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raging said:

Oh C'mon Mainad I like being an armchair critic, retired from the game 7 years ago.

That's the great thing about Talk Tennis, everybody has an opinion & should be allowed to have a crack.

Sometimes it would be better to have a few facts in there but why spoil a good argument?

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raging said:

Oh C'mon Mainad I like being an armchair critic, retired from the game 7 years ago.

That's the great thing about Talk Tennis, everybody has an opinion & should be allowed to have a crack. Sometimes it would be better to have a few facts in there but why spoil a good argument?

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batz said:

Do you mind if I ask what your ranking was mate?

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raging said:

batz, I couldn't hit my hat!

Another one of those dumb tennis coaches you keep going on about.
Coached & played Team Tennis in germany in the vets.
Knew it was time to retire when I lost in straight sets to a Brit. out in Oz at the world vets!
Now I just coach.

but I love this game & enjoy the banter on this forum.
cheers to you & Mainad for making it a bit of fun.

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TennisLovaLova said:

Murray 2.0 isnt consistent enough

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