DropShotArtist
Banned
Djokovic 2011 would lose to Federer 2007 at AO in 5 set.s
Style hasn't changed? Are you kidding? How many outright FH winners does he hit nowadays from behind the baseline?
Not sure you understand what style means.
He is still an aggressive baseliner, who likes to run around the BH and go FH inside out. He also mixes up the S&V, and my and large he is content to chip the return back in play and work his way into a point.
He also still uses that law slice that forces you to net and passes.
Just because the results arent the same doesnt mean the style is different. He is simply physically incapable of hitting as many winners from the back of the court, and he is more error prone because his movement isnt as good as it was before
Physically, quite a bit. His movement is significantly worse than it was when he was dominating. The way he moved against Nadal at Indian Wells - holy crap! If he moves like that the rest of his career, he might not ever win another title. He's also lost a lot of that day-in, day-out consistency that helped him excel so well in his best years.
That said, I think he's gotten a lot better at certain things. I think he actually thinks out there on court a bit more than he used to. In 2005, he could hit forehand winners from anywhere in the court, so he didn't really need to think too hard. Now, with slow courts and opponents who are quicker than ever, he tends to work the point a little more before going for a winner. He also hits with more margin on both sides, which has improved the consistency of his backhand in particular. Obviously, it still has its off-days, but he hits topspin a lot more than he used to and slices a lot less. I think even his serving variety has improved. I remember watching his WTF match with Nadal in 2011 and being very impressed with the way his slice out wide on the deuce court totally handicapped Nadal. I don't remember him doing that nearly as much in his prime. His deadliest serves then were definitely the ones down the middle and the one out wide on the ad court.
So in some ways he's a better tennis player, but the physical decline far outweighs the tactical changes he's made just to stay in the top four.
Djokovic 2011 would lose to Federer 2007 at AO in 5 set.s
possible, but Djokovic 2011 would beat Federer 2006 at AO
possible, but Djokovic 2011 would beat Federer 2006 at AO
Maybe, but prime for prime Fed would end up with more slams no question.
I disagree. Roger's movement in 2004-2006 was exquisite. Even if Nole's movement today is as effective, Roger's more aggressive game style would win it. The problem today is that Roger doesn't get to the ball as well as he used to so it's harder for him to not only defend but also attack as effectively. And in 2013 his serve has been very mediocre.
But it's not about Fed vs Nadal, who we all know is bad match up for Roger.
The point is a prime Nadal can't stop Nole from winning 3 slams. However, a prime Fed would never let Nole get away with it. Please stick to the point.
2011 Nole could compete with 05 - 06 Roger. I would favour Nole in Australia, but would expect Federer to come through at Wimby and New York
The difference between Roger now and from 04 - 07 is more UE's and slightly worse movement. His style hasnt changed all that much, except for the addition of the drop shot
if Federer were in his prime now he would be back to winning 3 slams per year as usual. They may be more tightly contested, but he would generally come out on top - except Nadal on clay.
Yeah but no version of Fed would dominate 2011 Nadal the way Novak did.
Mostly agree, also I'd call it 50-50 at the FO.
From what I've seen so far in 2013 I wouldn't call the decline in his movement slight, I also think Fed plays the percentages more these days, he doesn't blow players away with his shotmaking (not even in early rounds of slams).
Federer for the win!
Sorry, I think prime Fed would Murder 2011 Novak.
No matter the slam. 50/50 at the French when 2011 Federer (past prime) beat undefeated Novak?
I'd give Djokovic a 50/50 chance in Australia though more based on his 2012 AO final form than his 2011 AO final form though, he could outlast Federer perhaps.
Sorry, I think prime Fed would Murder 2011 Novak. No matter the slam. 50/50 at the French when 2011 Federer (past prime) beat undefeated Novak? I'd give Djokovic a 50/50 chance in Australia though more based on his 2012 AO final form than his 2011 AO final form though, he could outlast Federer perhaps.
Have to agree with you for once.
50/50 at the French when 2011 Federer (past prime) beat undefeated Novak?
It is so hilarious when these single time examples only seem to apply when in favor of Federer. Many Federer fans argue he would have the edge prime to prime over Kuerten at the French (rotfl but anyway) even though in his prime he got smoked by hip crippled 30% of what he was at the French. A single win by post prime Federer over prime Djokovic is NOT sufficient to say beyond any doubt Federer has some big edge over Djokovic at RG. Djokovic was quite competitive with Federer on clay both when they played another and their general threat on the surface to the tour, even when Roger was closer to his prime than Novak was (08-09), and Djokovic has a good shot to catch or surpass Federer's clay record by the time his career is gone, and is a way bigger threat to Nadal on clay than Federer in his peak of peaks dreamed of being.
Federer matches up better with Djokovic and Djokovic matches up better with Nadal.
To me, I don't think either has a matchup problem per-say with the other (Federer/Djokovic) it's just about how well they are playing really. Which is pretty unique at the top level.
Well two times Novak met Fed at AO he beat him in straights, now even if we presume that 2008 and 2011 AO showings were Novak's best to date and that Fed wasn't at his best in those matches Fed should have still taken a set atleast for me to favour him or give him 50-50 peak for peak against Novak at AO (atleast on plexicushion).
It's not a major matchup issue with Federer and Djokovic like with Federer and Nadal, I just think Federer's variety bothers Djokovic more. I think Djokovic feels very comfortable trading groundstrokes with Nadal.
You know now that I think about it, Nadal doesn't really have a matchup issue with Djokovic either. When they play on HC's Djoker has a 60/40 advantage i'd say, but Nadal doesn't necessarily hate playing Djokovic either. Federer and Nadal can get Djokovic frustrated in ways most players can't, especially on a consistent basis. Nadal when playing well has Djokovic scrambling from pillar to post, and really doesn't get the credit he deserves for pushing Djokovic to his limits and having a winning H2H. You'd think he's never beat the guy the way people talk on here.
he's less than a shadow of his old self. he's just a typical baseliner nowadays. he used to construct points so well, but he can't do it anymore due to his physical decline.
But it's not about Fed vs Nadal, who we all know is bad match up for Roger. The point is a prime Nadal can't stop Nole from winning 3 slams. However, a prime Fed would never let Nole get away with it. Please stick to the point.
But it's not about Fed vs Nadal, who we all know is bad match up for Roger.
The point is a prime Nadal can't stop Nole from winning 3 slams. However, a prime Fed would never let Nole get away with it. Please stick to the point.
Novak and Rafa's rivalry on hardcourt has been pretty onesided. Most of their pre 2011 matches on hardcourt were straights victories for Novak.
He's playing better than ever, it makes no sense he got worse at tennis after 15 years on tour, do you honestly think he didn't work on improving his game in all those years? Is it logical to assume that someone doesn't improve (or even gets worse LOL) in his or hers chosen profession after doing it for 15 years? Maybe if you're a lazy ******* but Fed doesn't personally strike me as someone who's lazy.
Just look at how much his bread and butter shot (the one that he owes his success the most to) topspin BH is better these days, nowadays it's a weapon while before that it was a grandpa push/slice.
Now, he might seem slower than in his younger days but that's merely an illusion brought on by the fact that every other player on tour got faster in the meantime so Fed only seems slow in comparison (the athleticism in tennis is really on another level now, players are much bigger, stronger, faster etc.)
Personally I feel that Fed will reach his peak in his 40s (he'll have another decade to further improve that deadly BH and further expand his tactical acumen) unless he's pushed out by the strong era players before then of course.
Federer beat novak in starights in 2007 ao.
Djokovic has never had a winning head-to-head record against Nadal, neither overall nor in majors. Also, Nadal did stop Djokovic from holding all 4 majors at the same time. Nadal just brings it against his rivals more often than not, 19-10 against Federer, 19-14 against Djokovic and 13-5 against Murray. That's excellent.
Was it Nadal who beat Noel at the FO 2011 ?
Or is it some other year you are talking of ?
Mustard is right. Nadal prevented Djokovic from holding all four majors at the same time. He beat Djokovic in RG 2012. Djokovic was holding all three majors then. When Roger beat Djokovic at RG2011, he was holding only one major
Nadal has nothing to do with the argument though because he has more trouble with Djokovic on any surface. Federer has insane clay consistency and reached how many FO finals? And also has scored wins over Rafa on clay, despite it being the worst matchup on tour for him.
Mustard is right. Nadal prevented Djokovic from holding all four majors at the same time. He beat Djokovic in RG 2012. Djokovic was holding all three majors then. When Roger beat Djokovic at RG2011, he was holding only one major
Who is to say that Nadal wouldn't have beaten nole in the final if Novak had gotten there?