Help me compare across eras!

BobbyOne said:

My old friend, kiki: It's a pity that a man of your great knowledge underrates a very strong player, Buchholz.

Additionally to the facts I have already given you, here a few more. Hope they will impress you.

Buchholz gave winner Fraser a tough battle in the 1960 Wimbledon QF. He also almost beat Laver in the 1960 US SF.

In 1969 Buchholz reached the QFs of the US Open and lost to Roche.

Buchholz reached the SFs of the big pro tournaments several times.

In the 1963 6 man tour he finished third, a shadow behind Laver and ahead of Gimeno.

In late 1964 he beat Laver at Cape Town and Rosewall at Salisbury. Thus he finished fifth in the pro rankings, ahead of strong Hoad and your darling, Olmedo.

As a WCT player he won 5 pro tournaments in 1968!

In 1970 he lost at Corpus Christi only by 6-3, 4-6, 6-7 to Rosewall who crashed Newcombe in the final (6-2,6-0).

As late as 1975, after five years of retirement, Butch lost the final of Jackson to Rosewall by 5-7, 6-4, 6-7. In the SFs he had beaten Newcombe...

My facit: Buchholz is hardly just a journeyman! He was an excellent player.

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kiki said:

Oh¿ impressive facts, bobbyone, the true master of historians.

I certainly will look at him with a higher regard, specially since he seemed to do so well against one of my faves, great John Newcombe.

He would be in the great players-non champions list, similar to guys like Raul Ramirez,Eddie Dibbs,Brian Gottfried,Tom Gorman,Tom Okker,Bob Lutz or Victor Pecci.Among a few others I left out...

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BobbyOne said:

kiki, I knew you would be impressed by these facts and willing to change your opinion in this point. Thanks for your nice words.

Yes, Earl "Butch" B. can be considered as one of the great "outsiders" comparable to those you have listed up.

Thanks again to kiki, one of the big stalwarts of talk tennis.

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kiki said:

Maybe a bitt better than Graebner,Pasarell,Richey,Riessen and Froehling?

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BobbyOne said:

kiki, Froehling did not achieve too much.

Graebner's career was rather short. Richey and Riessen did well. Cliff was very strong in 1970 at No.7 in the world. Marty was the most consistent of the group. He was Laver's nemesis and is on par with Rod in hth. Pasarell was possibly the most talented of them but rather inconsistent. He played that famous match against Gonzalez and another five setter, at the 1968 Wimbledon, against Rosewall. Rex Bellamy then wrote that it was a match the Gods would like to watch...

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Dan Lobb said:

Pasarell was the victim of Hoad in the 1970 French Open, Hoad's last significant win in slam play, 6-4, 3-6, 6-4, 6-4.

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urban said:

There is a good article on Pasarell on Tennis Channel online by Joel Drucker. Charlito, who had a clean, classic, textbook style, was the man of the first day at the Big W. He beat Santana, the holder in 1967, lost to Rosewall in five over 3 days in 1968, and lost that epic with his mentor Gonzalez in 1969. His best match was probably a five set loss to Laver at Bologna in 1971, with the 3 last sets all tiebrakers. Richard Evans has described that match in his book Open tennis. Buchholz had the bad luck of cramps. He had matchpoints against Fraser, the eventual champ in Wim 1960, but broke down with cramps. Graebner was a terrific server, and bombed out many good players especially in 1968 and 69. Looked like Clark Kent, with spectacles and short curly black hair.

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Dan Lobb said:

Cramps are not due to bad luck, but to a lack of conditioning.
Too much time spent lifting a beer mug instead of a barbell or running the courses.
Ashley Cooper had a remedy for cramps, given in a 1964 book by the pro players.
Rapid-fire pushups until exhaustion. Repeat for a two-week period.
Guaranteed cure for cramps.

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