Steve Flink: Nole has reached the level of tennis higher than the level in 2011
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Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Bitter Nadal fan is still bitter I see.
I'm just stating a fact. For all of Djokovic's recent successes, he's lost many big matches in majors recently. He's like Lendl in 1982 at the moment.
Cup8489
G.O.A.T.
I don't consider that necessarily related to level of play. Wawrinka gave him a hell of a match, and took Nadal out as well. The last two tournaments he's really stepped it up.. that Miami final was just great play.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
He's the current holder of 5 Masters 1000 and the WTF- if that's not the equivalent of at least 1 slam then I don't know what is. Just out of interest have you ever given any of Nadal's opponents/rivals credit for anything?
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Nadal is still on his clay throne, and he beat Djokovic at the last US Open. I just get the feeling that Nadal isn't getting the necessary credit for this. He's beaten Federer and Djokovic in big matches at hardcourt majors in the past, on top of dominating on clay.
TeamOB
Professional
IMO the only other match Nole has played at a similar level was the 2011 Rome final. He just made Nadal look average both times. When Nole is playing that well he is simply untouchable from the baseline.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0dDL0Jzknk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0dDL0Jzknk
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I agree- that was probably the highest level of tennis I've ever seen Djokovic play, possibly anyone for that matter. It was the only time I ever felt sorry for Nadal on a clay court. Novak was simply ruthless that day.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Why do you put so much weight on the opinion of Steve Flink?
urundai
Professional
I have nothing against Djoker but this is pure BS.
He scraped through IW. He played decent in the slow courts of Miami. Nowhere near his form in 2011.
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
His performance in the final was about as high a level as Djokovic has ever played. It was a clinic.
Also, Djokovic kinda scraped through IW and Miami in 2011 as well.
He had a tough 3 setter against Federer and Nadal at IW 2011 and in Miami he beat Nadal in the 3rd set tiebreaker.
Overall, I agree with you that 2011 was more impressive. Djokovic looked very bad in the early rounds of IW this year.
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dpli2010
Semi-Pro
- Not sure if now and 2011 has become comparable for Nole, but he probably doesn't have to play the 2011 level to beat the current Rafa...
- See he still has room to allow his level to bump up a bit if he has to...
LazyNinja19
Banned
What it tells us?
natalia
Hall of Fame
Silverbullet96
Hall of Fame
I think he was better in 2013 too, just too addicted to sh*t pushing and defending. Take a look at his AO SF and Final level, very good tennis, also at Monte Carlo 2013 final.
@The people saying Rome 2011 was his best level, I think that is wrong. Of course the highlights look good, but from what I've seen he had a bad playing style for that clay season, he was hitting way too flat, but the incredible firepower and depth he had in 2011 saved him, without the power it's just like Rome 2012 or FO 2012 Final.
@The people saying Rome 2011 was his best level, I think that is wrong. Of course the highlights look good, but from what I've seen he had a bad playing style for that clay season, he was hitting way too flat, but the incredible firepower and depth he had in 2011 saved him, without the power it's just like Rome 2012 or FO 2012 Final.
powerangle
Legend
He is playing well, but saying that it's higher than 2011 level is ludicrous. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Let's wait for the clay season to play out and then get back to this.
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
I do believe that Djokovic might be on the brink of producing his best ever levels.
2011 came out of left field, and if he's able to return to that level of dominance after having the marker on his back for so long and having rivals respond to him, then his greatness could not be denied.
2011 came out of left field, and if he's able to return to that level of dominance after having the marker on his back for so long and having rivals respond to him, then his greatness could not be denied.
Anti-Fedal
Professional
Steve Flink.... the same man who placed Emerson above Gonzales on that moronic tennis channel list....
Omega_7000
Legend
This. He needs to produce this where it really matters...The Slams.
Federer20042006
Banned
His CC backhand is better than it was in 2011, as he's able to rip more winners with it, but his movement isn't as good. 2011 Djokovic had maybe the greatest movement in history.
I also don't think his backhand down the line is quite where it was in 2011 through AO 2012, either.
I also don't think his backhand down the line is quite where it was in 2011 through AO 2012, either.
underground
G.O.A.T.
Novak is playing better but 2011 version would stay annihilate the current one.
forzamilan90
Legend
Too soon to say that. 2011 Djoko was in God mode.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
It is not. If it was Davydenko might be known by anyone outside of hard-core tennis fans.
Ten Masters 1000 titles means nothing compared to one major in terms of how a player goes down in history.
On the OP, I disagree with Fink and Flemming. Nadal played sub-par for him and the Miami courts clearly don't bring out the best in his game - he can't rush Djokovic which is a must in order to beat him. Djokovic played well but wasn't in God-mode compared to times in the past imo.
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Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Yeah but that comparison doesn't really work. Djokovic's results in the last 4 slams are QF,RU,RU,SF whereas Davy, as good a player as he was, never had those kind of consistent results.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
Regardless, if Djokovic doesn't win a major this year it'll only take a year or two for 2014 to become regarded as a bad year for him. At the highest level of achievement he is expected to do well at majors in this part of his career.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
To be fair though, Djokovic lost to Fed at RG and almost lost to him at the USO in 2011, so even in his 2011 form he was not untouchable.I don't really think he's been back at his best form but even if he was he still could lose that AO match. I don't think anyone would say he was in great form any further back than the fall hardcourt season so the AO is the only slam he's played since he's started winning more consistantly again (AO and Dubai are the 2 losses he's had in the last 5 months) In this last 5 month period, one could argue he's been back in top form with 4 masters a 500 and a wtf and only 2 losses. I think even in those wins he was patchy though, but the Miami final stood out amongst his other wins in the last 4-5 months
Nadal got plenty of credit last year for what he did and rightly so, but the US Open was 6 months ago and he's won nothing significant since. It's only natural if another player picks up 4 masters titles in a row and the WTF that people will start praising them, don't be so sensitive. Nadal could have won the AO and he'd still be the one getting the praise but he didn't and while Djokovic didn't either, he's has been winning the next most important events for the last 5 months. That's a decent amount of time.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
But if Miami really is the 5th slam and we also include the WTF then Novak has won 13 as well! :wink:
xan
Hall of Fame
your math teacher must be proud.
I don't think his general level is much different to be honest. The difference in 2012 and 2013 is that Novak has not been able to come through in the biggest moments as consistently as he did in his great 2011.
Think about last year...he is up a break in the 5th at RG and loses. He is seemingly in control in the third set at Flushing Meadows and the wheels fall off. He comes through in those moments in 2011. And if he had done so last year his 2013 is on par with his breakout year.
The point is that his level is there. He just needs to find whatever he had in 2011 that made him so good in the big moments.
I really think the emphasis and failures at RG the last two years have had some lingering effect. If he wins there and gets that monkey off his back, I think he'll be more relaxed and tougher to beat after that.
Think about last year...he is up a break in the 5th at RG and loses. He is seemingly in control in the third set at Flushing Meadows and the wheels fall off. He comes through in those moments in 2011. And if he had done so last year his 2013 is on par with his breakout year.
The point is that his level is there. He just needs to find whatever he had in 2011 that made him so good in the big moments.
I really think the emphasis and failures at RG the last two years have had some lingering effect. If he wins there and gets that monkey off his back, I think he'll be more relaxed and tougher to beat after that.
Omega_7000
Legend
Finally words of wisdom...Absolutely correct. Winning big points is the difference.
His form has been amazing since immediately after the US Open. 4 Masters 1000's in a row, a WTF. His only let down was the AO - and he gave the eventual winner his hardest match of the tournament.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
True, and let's not forget that Djokovic was up a break in that final set against Wawrinka- it really couldn't have been much closer. Had Novak won that match I think he would've won his 4th straight title there.
objectivity
Banned
actually imho, the highest standard of play i have ever seen from Djokovic was Wimbledon 2011. i thought Nadal genuinely looked clueless.
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
Really? Nadal did look clueless, but I feel like out of the 6 matches they played in 2011, that was the most abysmal one. Not only because it was filled with extremely patchy play with two completely empty sets (6-1 1-6), but also because Nadal just didn't compete like you expect him too.
Now fast forward to the USO match and that was sheer insanity. I don't recall seeing the arthur ashe crowd go that wild since maybe when Agassi was playing like the lion in winter back in 2005. I think it was after that match that Nadal said that he thought Djokovic played at the highest level he has ever seen.
chjtennis
G.O.A.T.
I don't think he'll ever be as good as he was in 2011. He'll decline from his current level in the future, rather than improve on it.
Tenez101
Banned
He's 26, geez. He's got another 2 prime years to go, plus he peaked late. He isn't going to drastically drop his level any time soon like old man Federer.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Might be 26 but he's been top 3 since 2007 non-stop. He's still human after all. Like Rafa, his decline will probably be ugly to watch.
chjtennis
G.O.A.T.
Rafa is not what he used to be but he's still pretty good. He hasn't looked ugly at all. As you said, though, Novak's been there for a long time and he relies a lot on his athleticism, so once he gets 28, I don't think we'll see him retrieve everything that comes to his side like he does now with that super flexi-style. He's also only 1 year younger than Nadal, so we may see him decline from next year like we see from Nadal this year. I'm not trying to be mean to Nole but just stating facts. 10% declined Nadal and Djokovic would still be two of the best at this moment, that's for sure.
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