pc1
G.O.A.T.
When I mean here is we should have some posters argue positive reasons why a player is possibly the GOAT. Example-You shouldn't argue Federer isn't the GOAT because he get beaten by Nadal all the time. But you can use as an example of Nadal's strength that he beats Federer most of the time and all his other top rivals too.
There should be some posters who I think could argue very well for certain players. It doesn't mean they necessarily believe it but they are in charge of giving positive arguments for the player.
I think that Hoodjem and Urban know the career of Laver pretty well so I think if they want they could discuss the reasons why Laver is or could be the GOAT.
I think NatF is pretty fair and objective and I know he likes Federer so I think he should discuss Federer if he wants to.
Gee, I wonder who would want to be the advocate for Rosewall? I think I know.
I would hope Dan Lobb would come back to discuss Lew Hoad and how great he was.
You can be subjective too. You can write for example that Federer's forehand is possibly the greatest ever.
None of this stuff about how evolution improves players because somehow I don't see how Nadal at 6'1" has a major physical edge over the 6'2" Tilden unless Nadal developed wings to fly.
Evolution doesn't happen that fast.
And please no ridiculous arguments that tend to happen between a few posters. That's why I wrote POSITIVE discussions.
I'll start with TIlden.
Tournaments won-160 plus
Majors won-15 (if we include the World Hardcourt which was a major)
Percentage of Tournaments won career-52% (est.)
Winning percentage in best five years-98% (est.)
Tilden, according to Bud Collins' book won from 1912 to 1930 in his amateur career (which essentially was the top level because he faced all the top competition) won 138 of 192 tournaments, lost 28 finals with a 907-62 match record. The winning percentage was .936! Tilden turn pro in the early 1930's and kept playing.
There was a story Fred Perry related in his autobiography about Bill Tilden. Perry wrote that Tilden wanted to hit with him on a hot day in Independence, Kansas. Apparently when they got to the court he told Perry to hit a few to his forehand, short and wide. Perry did this and Tilden returned the balls using a perfect continental just like Fred Perry himself would. Tilden said that after watching Perry play so many times and studying his style he realized the continental grip and not his own Eastern grip was the best one for that sort of shot and Tilden felt he wouldn't be a complete player unless he had mastered it. Perry wrote that when Tilden perfected the continental grip he was 53 years old. That's very impressive to me. It just shows what a perfectionist Tilden was and how he was always trying to improve in tennis. I have no doubt Tilden would not only adjusted to today's game easily but developed new ideas for tennis.
Tennis wouldn't be the same today if not for Tilden. Federer for all intents and purposes for examples plays with the concepts that Tilden developed. Tilden was a genius of Tennis.
Subjectively many feel that overall that Tilden could do as much off both sides as any player ever. Vines wrote that he never played anyone who could do so much off both sides and Vines played Budge, Perry, Cochet and Nusslein. Tilden had a great serve, great footwork and mobility and a good but not great volley. Tilden also had fantastic return.
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/big-bill-tilden
There should be some posters who I think could argue very well for certain players. It doesn't mean they necessarily believe it but they are in charge of giving positive arguments for the player.
I think that Hoodjem and Urban know the career of Laver pretty well so I think if they want they could discuss the reasons why Laver is or could be the GOAT.
I think NatF is pretty fair and objective and I know he likes Federer so I think he should discuss Federer if he wants to.
Gee, I wonder who would want to be the advocate for Rosewall? I think I know.
I would hope Dan Lobb would come back to discuss Lew Hoad and how great he was.
You can be subjective too. You can write for example that Federer's forehand is possibly the greatest ever.
None of this stuff about how evolution improves players because somehow I don't see how Nadal at 6'1" has a major physical edge over the 6'2" Tilden unless Nadal developed wings to fly.
Evolution doesn't happen that fast.
And please no ridiculous arguments that tend to happen between a few posters. That's why I wrote POSITIVE discussions.
I'll start with TIlden.
Tournaments won-160 plus
Majors won-15 (if we include the World Hardcourt which was a major)
Percentage of Tournaments won career-52% (est.)
Winning percentage in best five years-98% (est.)
Tilden, according to Bud Collins' book won from 1912 to 1930 in his amateur career (which essentially was the top level because he faced all the top competition) won 138 of 192 tournaments, lost 28 finals with a 907-62 match record. The winning percentage was .936! Tilden turn pro in the early 1930's and kept playing.
There was a story Fred Perry related in his autobiography about Bill Tilden. Perry wrote that Tilden wanted to hit with him on a hot day in Independence, Kansas. Apparently when they got to the court he told Perry to hit a few to his forehand, short and wide. Perry did this and Tilden returned the balls using a perfect continental just like Fred Perry himself would. Tilden said that after watching Perry play so many times and studying his style he realized the continental grip and not his own Eastern grip was the best one for that sort of shot and Tilden felt he wouldn't be a complete player unless he had mastered it. Perry wrote that when Tilden perfected the continental grip he was 53 years old. That's very impressive to me. It just shows what a perfectionist Tilden was and how he was always trying to improve in tennis. I have no doubt Tilden would not only adjusted to today's game easily but developed new ideas for tennis.
Tennis wouldn't be the same today if not for Tilden. Federer for all intents and purposes for examples plays with the concepts that Tilden developed. Tilden was a genius of Tennis.
Subjectively many feel that overall that Tilden could do as much off both sides as any player ever. Vines wrote that he never played anyone who could do so much off both sides and Vines played Budge, Perry, Cochet and Nusslein. Tilden had a great serve, great footwork and mobility and a good but not great volley. Tilden also had fantastic return.
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/big-bill-tilden
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