Djokovic breaks free from a group of greats in slam wins

mattosgrant · Jul 12, 2015

With his 9th slam Djokovic breaks free from this large group:

8 slams- Lendl, Connors, Rosewall, Perry, Agassi

and to a lesser extent the even larger group at 7 just behind:

7 slams- McEnroe, Wilander, Newcombe, Larden, Sears, Renshaw, LaCoste, Cochet

Truly a monumental moment.

Agassifan · Jul 12, 2015

By the end of this year, he'd've passed Pete sampras in terms of overall achievements

reaper · Jul 12, 2015

It's true, but you should remember that Lendl, Conners and McEnroe were playing 3 slams per year for most of their careers.

britam25 · Jul 12, 2015

reaper said:
It's true, but you should remember that Lendl, Conners and McEnroe were playing 3 slams per year for most of their careers.

Well, except for Connors being banned from the French in '74, that was by choice, they shouldn't get credit for that-and I was a fan, to a great extent, of the latter two.

Agassifan · Jul 12, 2015

reaper said:
It's true, but you should remember that Lendl, Conners and McEnroe were playing 3 slams per year for most of their careers.

Yes.. that's why I am not just counting slams won. Consistency, dominance over the field, etc.. He is definitely going to win the French next year or the year after.

reaper · Jul 12, 2015

britam25 said:
Well, except for Connors being banned from the French in '74, that was by choice, they shouldn't get credit for that-and I was a fan, to a great extent, of the latter two.

Chasing a slam count simply wasn't a priority in that era. It is now. To compare Djokovic's slam count against McEnroe, Conners and Lendl is judging the latter 3 on something they didn't pursue....it's not like for like.

heninfan99 · Jul 12, 2015

looks like hes going to catch Pete & Rafa

britam25 · Jul 12, 2015

reaper said:
Chasing a slam count simply wasn't a priority in that era. It is now. To compare Djokovic's slam count against McEnroe, Conners and Lendl is judging the latter 3 on something they didn't pursue....it's not like for like.

I'm aware of that, but the players who DO chase Slams shouldn't, in effect, be penalized for doing so. They used to play best of 3 in the early rounds of some Slams, and the field wasn't NEARLY as deep as it is now, so that's not like for like, either.

ACE of Hearts · Jul 12, 2015

I think people will be surprise when joker doesn't have it anymore. His style is different. I think he has a chance of tying sampras but its not a given.

Fiji · Jul 12, 2015

I think he will end up with 11 slams no matter how underachieving as it might sound.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...in-more-than-5-slams-after-turning-27.538312/

Deleted member 720910 · Jul 12, 2015

Transitional champion, he's won far more than he should have. Congratulations to him but he'll never be in the top tier

Agassifan · Jul 12, 2015

Razaron said:
Transitional champion, he's won far more than he should have. Congratulations to him but he'll never be in the top tier

LOL LOL.. He's nibbling on Rafa and Pete, right now. Win the french and Pete is history. Win a couple more slams and Rafa's position is in jeopardy.

britam25 · Jul 12, 2015

Razaron said:
Transitional champion, he's won far more than he should have. Congratulations to him but he'll never be in the top tier

Lol, how many "transitional" champions have won 9 Slams? And, putting aside that there is no "what SHOULD have happened" only what DID happen, what Slams did he win that he "shouldn't" have won?

ACE of Hearts · Jul 12, 2015

I think djokovic has two more great years of good tennis. Who will stop him? Remanso to be seen.

Kalin · Jul 12, 2015

What exactly is 'transitional' about Novak? He's the same age as Murray and just a bit younger than Rafa and well, quite younger than Roger but still a large part of their careers at the top coincided. This is as non-transitional as it gets.

reaper · Jul 12, 2015

Nine grand slam titles makes it rather a long transition....

Djokovic_is_the_best#1 · Jul 12, 2015

Razaron said:
Transitional champion, he's won far more than he should have. Congratulations to him but he'll never be in the top tier

Wishful thinking on your part. Nole targeting become the GOAT

Deleted member 720910 · Jul 12, 2015

Look at when Federer and Nadal were in there primes, he didn't have a look in. Now that both have declined it's a 34 year old being his closet rival for years. Players like Cilic and Wawrinka are winning slams and Gasguets got to the semi of Wimbledon.

Talks of Novak being GOAT, seriously get a grip. He will probably get 11-12 slams most, I can see evidence of him being greater then Pete eventually, but Nadal or Federer. Go home. You're drunk.

Deleted member 720910 · Jul 12, 2015

reaper said:
Nine grand slam titles makes it rather a long transition....

When you've only had competition from a declining Federer for the past few years, yeah. Nadal wrecked him in 2013.

Bukmeikara · Jul 12, 2015

Razaron said:
Look at when Federer and Nadal were in there primes, he didn't have a look in. Now that both have declined it's a 34 year old being his closet rival for years. Players like Cilic and Wawrinka are winning slams and Gasguets got to the semi of Wimbledon.

Talks of Novak being GOAT, seriously get a grip. He will probably get 11-12 slams most, I can see evidence of him being greater then Pete eventually, but Nadal or Federer. Go home. You're drunk.

Gasquet reached Wimbledon SF in 2007 as well.

Deleted member 77403 · Jul 12, 2015

Djokovic has won three of the last five slam titles.
He has had his second multi slam year, with the US Open still to come
He has equalled his H2H with Federer
He has finally defended a non AO slam
He has surpassed Rafa at Wimbledon

He has accomplished a few milestones here, and yes, with this win, catching Pete and Rafa now looks possible. He's in double figures if he wins one more...he's getting up there now.

King Fed WW · Jul 12, 2015

It must be said it is easier to racks up slams these days compared to the times of Mac and Lendl. That applies to Rafa, Fed and Nole.

Djokovic2011 · Jul 12, 2015

Hitman said:
Djokovic has won three of the last five slam titles.
He has had his second multi slam year, with the US Open still to come
He has equalled his H2H with Federer
He has finally defended a non AO slam
He has surpassed Rafa at Wimbledon

He has accomplished a few milestones here, and yes, with this win, catching Pete and Rafa now looks possible. He's in double figures if he wins one more...he's getting up there now.

No wonder MichaelNadal's nowhere to be seen!

mattosgrant · Jul 12, 2015

reaper said:
It's true, but you should remember that Lendl, Conners and McEnroe were playing 3 slams per year for most of their careers.

More like:

Connors- 2 slams most of his prime
Mcenroe- 3 slams
Lendl- all 4 slams just like today. He played the Australian every year from 83 onwards (a year before his first slam) so absolutely no exuses for him.

Deleted member 720910 · Jul 12, 2015

Hitman said:
Djokovic has won three of the last five slam titles.
He has had his second multi slam year, with the US Open still to come
He has equalled his H2H with Federer
He has finally defended a non AO slam
He has surpassed Rafa at Wimbledon

He has accomplished a few milestones here, and yes, with this win, catching Pete and Rafa now looks possible. He's in double figures if he wins one more...he's getting up there now.

I'd say he has a chance with having a better record then Pete, but I think Nadal is too far. But this is in a weak transitional era.

Deleted member 77403 · Jul 12, 2015

Razaron said:
I'd say he has a chance with having a better record then Pete, but I think Nadal is too far. But this is in a weak transitional era.

How is Nadal too far? In slams?

Novak has more weeks at number one, will have more year ends at number one. He is on course to take the Masters record away from Rafa, with the way he is mopping up those events. He has more WTFs. The H2H is reduced to 23-21 in favor of Rafa, but the way it is going, Novak will take a stranglehold on that also. Pete and Rafa have the same amount of slams, if Nole catches one, he catches both..of course I am assuming Rafa doesn't win anymore, and with the state of his play, I am not sure either way.

mattosgrant · Jul 12, 2015

IMO Djokovic with 12 slams, including a French Open, probably surpasses Nadal if Nadal is still at 14. Since I expect Nadal to win a 15th at some point, Djokovic would need atleast 13 probably.

Djokovic is far superior to Nadal in most other areas, and is superior on all surfaces besides clay now. Even those who argue U.S Open hard courts, that will likely go out the window sooner rather than later.

stringertom · Jul 12, 2015

Agassifan said:
Yes.. that's why I am not just counting slams won. Consistency, dominance over the field, etc.. He is definitely going to win the French next year or the year after.

Stanimal says "Non!" to that!

Fiji · Jul 12, 2015

Razaron said:
Look at when Federer and Nadal were in there primes, he didn't have a look in. Now that both have declined it's a 34 year old being his closet rival for years. Players like Cilic and Wawrinka are winning slams and Gasguets got to the semi of Wimbledon.

Talks of Novak being GOAT, seriously get a grip. He will probably get 11-12 slams most, I can see evidence of him being greater then Pete eventually, but Nadal or Federer. Go home. You're drunk.

Better than Pete? GTFO.

Fiji · Jul 12, 2015

Razaron said:
I'd say he has a chance with having a better record then Pete, but I think Nadal is too far. But this is in a weak transitional era.

Nole needs 15 slams to overtake Pete who was a dominating number one of his era. But you probably never saw him play.

Fans used to say that Roger needed 15 slams to overtake Pete some years ago but now with only 12 somehow Nole will overtake Pete. nope.

mattosgrant · Jul 12, 2015

Nadal and Djokovic are almost the same age. 2011 was a pretty good year of tennis for Nadal. Not as good as 2008, 2010, 2013, but probably his 4th best. 2009 or 2012 probably would have been better without injuries, but it is what it is. Djokovic absolutely mauled and dominated a pretty good Nadal on all surfaces. Then in the 2012 Australian Open an inspired Nadal lost to a subpar Djokovic. Djokovic is a horrible match up for Nadal, in addition to probably a better player on all non clay courts.

As for Federer, Djokovic was winning his share of matches even in 2007-2009 when Federer was in his prime, and Djokovic clearly was not. Just as Federer past his prime is competitive with prime Djokovic also. Those two would always have a big rivalry, although on faster courts peak Federer wins mostly I would agree.

GabeT · Jul 12, 2015

Razaron said:
When you've only had competition from a declining Federer for the past few years, yeah. Nadal wrecked him in 2013.

You do know that according to the ITF Nole was the best player in the world in 2013, right? Or did you miss that?

mattosgrant · Jul 12, 2015

Nadal was definitely best in 2013. Nearly nobody agrees with the ITF in that case, and the ITF were the only ones who picked Djokovic for that year.

zagor · Jul 12, 2015

Razaron said:
I'd say he has a chance with having a better record then Pete, but I think Nadal is too far. But this is in a weak transitional era.

Nadal is on the same number as Pete (if we're talking about slams) and Novak has a prolonged dominance over the field (not in sporadic years) that Nadal didn't.

Mainad · Jul 12, 2015

mattosgrant said:
With his 9th slam Djokovic breaks free from this large group:

8 slams- Lendl, Connors, Rosewall, Perry, Agassi

and to a lesser extent the even larger group at 7 just behind:

7 slams- McEnroe, Wilander, Newcombe, Larden, Sears, Renshaw, LaCoste, Cochet

Truly a monumental moment.

He is the only male tennis player to have won 9 Slams without currently winning anymore (which will undoubtedly soon change of course).

This currently places him 8th on the all-time list:

1. Federer = 17
2. Sampras and Nadal = 14
4. Emerson = 12
5. Laver and Borg = 11
7. Tilden = 10
8. Djokovic = 9

BeatlesFan · Jul 12, 2015

By the end of this year, he'd've passed Pete sampras in terms of overall achievements

How on earth do you figure that? Does Nole have almost 300 weeks as #1? No. Does he have 7 Wimbledon titles? No. Does he have 5 USO's? No. Does he have 6 straight years as YEC #1? No. Does he have 14 majors? No.

Nole hasn't come close to coming near what Sampras accomplished in his career. Admittedly, his career is not over yet, but let's not jump the boat here in vaulting Djokovic over Pete Sampras.

GabeT · Jul 12, 2015

BeatlesFan said:
How on earth do you figure that? Does Nole have almost 300 weeks as #1? No. Does he have 7 Wimbledon titles? No. Does he have 5 USO's? No. Does he have 6 straight years as YEC #1? No. Does he have 14 majors? No.

Nole hasn't come close to coming near what Sampras accomplished in his career. Admittedly, his career is not over yet, but let's not jump the boat here in vaulting Djokovic over Pete Sampras.

I don't think he's better than Sampras but I do think he's done more than Nadal.

cc0509 · Jul 12, 2015

GabeT said:
I don't think he's better than Sampras but I do think he's done more than Nadal.

No he hasn't. Not yet.

GabeT · Jul 12, 2015

cc0509 said:
No he hasn't. Not yet.

Well, if you only look at Slam wins you are correct. But i look at more than that.

Poisoned Slice · Jul 12, 2015

I'm very happy for him. Perhaps it is time to set things right at the US Open, then moving on to Australia.

Only time will tell.

cc0509 · Jul 12, 2015

GabeT said:
Well, if you only look at Slam wins you are correct. But i look at more than that.

The tennis world looks at mostly slams. You are in the minority. Djokovic has some work to do to catch Nadal. Slams don't grow on trees and five/six slams are a lot. If Djokovic gets to 12 or 13 slams and Nadal doesn't win any more, then we can start talking.

We don't know what is going to happen. Can Nadal make any sort of comeback? Can Murray ever beat Djokovic again? Will a younger guy finally step up? Impossible to say.

mattosgrant · Jul 12, 2015

Mainad said:
He is the only male tennis player to have won 9 Slams without currently winning anymore (which will undoubtedly soon change of course).

This currently places him 8th on the all-time list:

1. Federer = 17
2. Sampras and Nadal = 14
4. Emerson = 12
5. Laver and Borg = 11
7. Tilden = 10
8. Djokovic = 9

I think he is going to pass Emerson at bare minimum and wind up at 13 at the very least. I give his possible range from 13-19. What do you think?

Mainad · Jul 12, 2015

mattosgrant said:
I think he is going to pass Emerson at bare minimum and wind up at 13 at the very least. I give his possible range from 13-19. What do you think?

I think you could very well be right. If he continues playing at this level, who is going to stop him (apart from an on-fire Wawrinka)?

mattosgrant · Jul 12, 2015

Mainad said:
I think you could very well be right. If he continues playing at this level, who is going to stop him (apart from an on-fire Wawrinka)?

I think Murray will eventually stop him. On fire Wawrinka will from time to time. I think Nishikori can win a slam or two in the future.

That is about it, until some players we know nothing of yet emerge. I do see both Murray and Wawrinka winning another slam or two each though.

Mainad · Jul 12, 2015

mattosgrant said:
I think Murray will eventually stop him. On fire Wawrinka will from time to time. I think Nishikori can win a slam or two in the future.
That is about it, until some players we know nothing of yet emerge. I do see both Murray and Wawrinka winning another slam or two each though.

Not optimistic about Murray at the moment. Stan is currently a proven threat. As for Nishikori, frankly I think he is a bit over-hyped.

tlm · Jul 12, 2015

Razaron said:
Transitional champion, he's won far more than he should have. Congratulations to him but he'll never be in the top tier

Exactly who is he beating? Old man fed, rafa is on the way out and there is nobody else coming up that is even close to those guys. I will say it again if joker was one of the greats he would have won more slams against rafa and fed when they were peaking. But because he is not in their league he had to wait for them to decline before he could shine.

mightyrick · Jul 12, 2015

mattosgrant said:
IMO Djokovic with 12 slams, including a French Open, probably surpasses Nadal if Nadal is still at 14. Since I expect Nadal to win a 15th at some point, Djokovic would need atleast 13 probably.

Djokovic is far superior to Nadal in most other areas, and is superior on all surfaces besides clay now. Even those who argue U.S Open hard courts, that will likely go out the window sooner rather than later.

mattosgrant said:
With his 9th slam Djokovic breaks free from this large group:

8 slams- Lendl, Connors, Rosewall, Perry, Agassi

and to a lesser extent the even larger group at 7 just behind:

7 slams- McEnroe, Wilander, Newcombe, Larden, Sears, Renshaw, LaCoste, Cochet

Truly a monumental moment.

Djokovic has already passed all those guys except Rosewall. You can't really compare Renshaw because that was before tennis became internationally competitive.

The next target in Djokovic's sights is Federer. If he makes two more years as the World's Best Player... he will have passed Federer. If he can do it once more after that, he'll pass Sampras.

G A S · Jul 12, 2015

heninfan99 said:
looks like hes going to catch Pete & Rafa

ACE of Hearts said:
I think people will be surprise when joker doesn't have it anymore. His style is different. I think he has a chance of tying sampras but its not a given.

Fiji said:
I think he will end up with 11 slams no matter how underachieving as it might sound.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...in-more-than-5-slams-after-turning-27.538312/

Djokovic2011 said:
No wonder MichaelNadal's nowhere to be seen!

I really think novak will reach the 14 majors of nadal, the question is what happens from 14 majors...

G A S · Jul 12, 2015

Mainad said:
Not optimistic about Murray at the moment. Stan is currently a proven threat. As for Nishikori, frankly I think he is a bit over-hyped.

nishikori is really failing a lot at the majors and I hope that he grabs a title not that far away in the future, the worst that could happen is that of he not winning a single major.

GabeT · Jul 12, 2015

cc0509 said:
The tennis world looks at mostly slams. You are in the minority. Djokovic has some work to do to catch Nadal. Slams don't grow on trees and five/six slams are a lot. If Djokovic gets to 12 or 13 slams and Nadal doesn't win any more, then we can start talking.

We don't know what is going to happen. Can Nadal make any sort of comeback? Can Murray ever beat Djokovic again? Will a younger guy finally step up? Impossible to say.

Not true. The ITF gave Nole the Champion of the Year award in 2013 even though Nadal won two slams and he only won one. And I've read many articles on the GOAT debate from the sports press and I've yet to find one that ranks solely on Slam wins.

It's only here, in the online community, that the argument 14>9 shows up over and over.

Djokovic breaks free from a group of greats in slam wins

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