Keep on squealing and getting coaching; it's all good, says WTA supremo.

Kalin

Kalin

Legend
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/te...arry-grunting-Groans-stay-say-WTA-chiefs.html

"The head of the WTA Tour will risk angering purists by shelving plans to curtail grunting while pressing to abolish rules restricting coaching.

Steve Simon, the tour's chief executive, is relaxed about the repeat yelping of players, which will become more prevalent this year with the return of Victoria Azarenka and Maria Sharapova.

He also wants to challenge the age-old idea in tennis that coaches are not allowed to issue instructions from the stands. This currently incurs a $5,000 fine and official warnings from umpires.

While grunting is not just a female issue, last Sunday's final in Indian Wells was marked by constant screams from winner Elena Vesnina.

Explorations into decibel levels set in motion by former WTA supremo Stacey Allaster have been abandoned although there is advisory education on the topic for younger players. 'I don't plan on pursuing anything to eliminate grunting,' said Simon. 'I don't know how you stop grunting. We do have rules in place that if we feel it's forced and it becomes a hindrance then obviously there are rules that address that."

Please discuss... or scream about it, also good. You are free to ask for advice as well.
 
TheMusicLover

TheMusicLover

G.O.A.T.
Kalin said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/te...arry-grunting-Groans-stay-say-WTA-chiefs.html

''I don't know how you stop grunting."
Click to expand...
Even+duct+tape+can+t+fix+stupid_45496b_5148903.jpg
 
Zoolander

Zoolander

Hall of Fame
TheMusicLover said:
Even+duct+tape+can+t+fix+stupid_45496b_5148903.jpg
Click to expand...

You, sir, are a genius. What better way to stop grunting AND coaching? All players and everyone sitting in their box must be duct taped shut.

No grunting, no coaching, no obscenities, no arguing with the umpire, no coughing when their players opponent is serving, and perhaps only the occasional death due to asphyxiation or heat exhaustion and dehydration. A cost worth paying for the improvement, i say! Bring it on!
 
PDJ

PDJ

G.O.A.T.
Aussie Darcy said:
Steve Simon is a complete idiot and is just tearing the WTA apart from the inside. I miss Stacey.
Click to expand...
I agree. The WTA is becoming a joke. It's hard to believe in the quality of the product when their best player turns up a handful of times and generally wins. A current no.1 (by virtue of said best player generally a no-show unless it's a major) that has failed to win a tournament this year. A crop of 'destined to be great' players that relentlessly fail to deliver. And possibly the next no.1 that most people outside of tennis, and maybe her country, have barely heard of. A gaggle of inconsistent performances means the general public fail to get name recognition.
And the current biggest story in Womens Tennis is....... The Return of Maria Sharapova.
You couldn't make it up.
Not only is the WTA imploding, it seems as if they want to make it a quick funeral.
Time for a comeback Anna Kournikova?
 
boredone3456

boredone3456

G.O.A.T.
Wanna stop the grunting? Write a rule that says if your grunts go over a certain decibel level, you are penalized. Point penalties, fines, or match forfeitures..something. Sharapova was clocked breaking 100 decibels at Wimbledon one year, Azarenka has cracked 90 decibels. That is not a grunt, that is a scream worthy of a horror movie.

This new "Supremo" just doesn't want to get the players angry and is afraid of them refusing to play. He is lazy, saying he doesn't know how is a total cop out. He knows how, he is just scared to actually do anything about it.

The coaching from the stands should stay illegal, point blank.
 
PDJ

PDJ

G.O.A.T.
90's Clay said:
The WTA is in better shape than the men's game at the moment
Click to expand...
That may well be the case. However, the men still have quite a few marquee names. The women have three. One part time and aging. One aging. And one banned.
At the middling level it's much of a muchness for both tours.
 
every7

every7

Hall of Fame
I went to watch a futures event this past weekend. Most of the players in the tourney were European WTA pros aged between 17-23. There was almost no grunting to speak of.

Most of the current top of women's tennis grunt a lot but it may be just a generational thing......

As for on-court coaching, that may be the worst innovation in pro tennis on either tour for a long, long time.
 
Tuskarr

Tuskarr

Semi-Pro
boredone3456 said:
Wanna stop the grunting? Write a rule that says if your grunts go over a certain decibel level, you are penalized. Point penalties, fines, or match forfeitures..something. Sharapova was clocked breaking 100 decibels at Wimbledon one year, Azarenka has cracked 90 decibels. That is not a grunt, that is a scream worthy of a horror movie.

This new "Supremo" just doesn't want to get the players angry and is afraid of them refusing to play. He is lazy, saying he doesn't know how is a total cop out. He knows how, he is just scared to actually do anything about it.

The coaching from the stands should stay illegal, point blank.
Click to expand...
current rules arent enforced so why even bother with more.

when they start enforcing the time between points on every player on every point then maybe we can talk about adding new rules.
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The absence of Meldonium in Sharapova's body will obviously result in a Performance Enhancing Decline of her shrieking.
 
Aussie Darcy

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
every7 said:
I went to watch a futures event this past weekend. Most of the players in the tourney were European WTA pros aged between 17-23. There was almost no grunting to speak of.

Most of the current top of women's tennis grunt a lot but it may be just a generational thing......

As for on-court coaching, that may be the worst innovation in pro tennis on either tour for a long, long time.
Click to expand...
It was Nick Bollateri or however it's spelled. He taught Maria and Seles and a bunch of others from a young age and it pretty much followed from there. So all those whinging about women groaning and grunting should realise, the idea actually came from an old man who's now in his 80s.
 
esgee48

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
The guy is a BIG idiot. You can enforce the rules against prolong grunting using simple technology. Just wire up a decibel monitor on the net post that is set for 1/2-3/4 second and 75 decibel. An alarm goes off if exceeded and player who makes the noise LOSES the point. If they can do Hawk Eye, then this is simple. I would also like to see a 'between points clock ala NFL clocks' so that the 20 or 25 second rule can be enforced. As far as on court coaching, I am against it. It's player against player, not coaching team vs coaching team.
 
Mr.Lob

Mr.Lob

G.O.A.T.
PDJ said:
I agree. The WTA is becoming a joke. It's hard to believe in the quality of the product when their best player turns up a handful of times and generally wins. A current no.1 (by virtue of said best player generally a no-show unless it's a major) that has failed to win a tournament this year. A crop of 'destined to be great' players that relentlessly fail to deliver. And possibly the next no.1 that most people outside of tennis, and maybe her country, have barely heard of. A gaggle of inconsistent performances means the general public fail to get name recognition.
And the current biggest story in Womens Tennis is....... The Return of Maria Sharapova.
You couldn't make it up.
Not only is the WTA imploding, it seems as if they want to make it a quick funeral.
Time for a comeback Anna Kournikova?
Click to expand...

Quoted for truth. ;) The WTA is a topsy turvy world with no end in sight. The faithful deserve something better than a part time champion, and what I'll affectionately call a field of mugs. Not hating. It's the truth.

The game needs star power. The paying public want to see their stars consistently go deep, They want to see great rivalries. Not win a tournament one day, Then disappear for 6 months. Kerber looked promising last year, as well as Pliskova, to unseat Serena. Don't see it happening with any of today's players. Why? Beats me. The whole world seems less and less focused with cellphones and all of todays modern miracles of science. But once you lose a segment of the tennis t.v viewing public, it's hard to get them back. :(
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
You do realise that most sports would kill to be able to have a competition with strong male and female competitions?

Everytime I open a newspaper it is filled with stuff about female UFC fighters, for some bizarre reason.

And the local football competition launched a female league to phenomenal success.

If you really want a a male-dominated sport there are some around, but tennis has never been it.

racquetreligion said:
Separate both sexes for Slams would be a good start
this equal pay is a joke but fans putting up with lobsided
hormonal women schrieking like banshees is the pits
Click to expand...
 
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PDJ

PDJ

G.O.A.T.
I was watching a match on YouTube between Davenport and Pierce in 2005 and I'm hard pressed to see how the game has moved on 12 years later?
Both women have exceptional serves AND return of serves. If playing at this level I see no reason why they wouldn't be Top Ten right now. If I'm wrong, please tell me.

 
Kalin

Kalin

Legend
Bartelby said:
You'd probably say the same if you saw Federer v Safin in the AO 2005.
Click to expand...

Good point but it's still not easy to argue that the women's game is progressing at this given moment. Arguably, it can change any time. Look at the men... the field seemed to be stagnating for so long but there are suddenly several very exciting younger players making waves and the future suddenly looks rosy. Or red, if you're Bernard Tomic looking at your Ferrari...
 
PDJ

PDJ

G.O.A.T.
90's Clay said:
The WTA is in better shape than the men's game at the moment
Click to expand...
Thinking about this some more: whilst you may indeed have a point, the mens game gleans considerably more attention. Practically most threads are about ATP players/matches. The WTA threads are supported by a loyal few (that love/and/or frustrated by the state of the womens game).
Rarely does a womens match generate its own thread. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that only the controversial Sharapova generates significant number of posts.
Serena Williams used to, but not recently.
I appreciate this is a tennis forum, but if it represents the bigger picture, the WTA has a lot of ground to make up.
It would be interesting to know general viewing figures. And ticket sales for WTA and ATP only tournaments.
 
C

captainbryce

Hall of Fame
Tennis "purists" be damned! Grunting has been present ever since Monic Seles did it 25 years ago. If tennis fans haven't gotten used to it by now, then they've liked stopped being fans a long time ago. Attendance doesn't seem to be struggling, so it seems to be the keyboard warriors who are doing most of the complaining. Until the players begin to complain about their opponents doing it and impeding them, it's a non issue. If it's not actually affecting play, then it should be legal. Besides you can address women grunting without also addressing the men because then you're just being sexist.

As far as illegal coaching goes...if they want to make it "legal", then I don't have a problem with that. Coaching is allowed in every other sport except tennis (for whatever reason). Even boxing allows coaching! However, as long as it remains illegal, then the players should be fined (because they are breaking the rules), otherwise what's the point of having a rule in the first place? I don't really have a strong opinion on it either way, but they need to decide what they want the rule to be, and then apply it consistently. They also need to make it consistent between the ATP and the WTA. If coaching is allowed in one, it should be allowed in the other. It's the same sport, so why should a non athletic rule be so dramatically different between genders?
 
PDJ

PDJ

G.O.A.T.
captainbryce said:
Tennis "purists" be damned! Grunting has been present ever since Monic Seles did it 25 years ago. If tennis fans haven't gotten used to it by now, then they've liked stopped being fans a long time ago. Attendance doesn't seem to be struggling, so it seems to be the keyboard warriors who are doing most of the complaining. Until the players begin to complain about their opponents doing it and impeding them, it's a non issue. If it's not actually affecting play, then it should be legal. Besides you can address women grunting without also addressing the men because then you're just being sexist.

As far as illegal coaching goes...if they want to make it "legal", then I don't have a problem with that. Coaching is allowed in every other sport except tennis (for whatever reason). Even boxing allows coaching! However, as long as it remains illegal, then the players should be fined (because they are breaking the rules), otherwise what's the point of having a rule in the first place? I don't really have a strong opinion on it either way, but they need to decide what they want the rule to be, and then apply it consistently. They also need to make it consistent between the ATP and the WTA. If coaching is allowed in one, it should be allowed in the other. It's the same sport, so why should a non athletic rule be so dramatically different between genders?
Click to expand...
I agree with your last point - it should be equal. It currently promotes a view that women can't think for themselves.
Re tournaments - I and many others, have commented on the lack of spectators for MANY televised matches on the WTA Tour.
Easy enough to see for yourself on YouTube.
Yes, men also grunt but few make such an ear-piercing noise as some women.
Quite a few players are on record complaining about excessive noise from opponents: Navratilova complained vigorously about Seles when she played her, and many have since until the present day.
I find it hard to believe that tennis is the ONLY sport that doesn't allow off-court coaching. However, as you're so emphatic, it must be true.
 
MatsPhilander

MatsPhilander

Legend
Pathetic that these women are so mentally weak that they are totally reliant on their coaches to tell them what to do every few minutes. Best thing would be to banish coaching staff backstage to watch it on a monitor. Seriously coaches are there to coach you & prepare you before you get into a real match/tournament situation. If you have been in the sport for years & cannot think for yourself out there then you don't belong.
 
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Kalin

Kalin

Legend
captainbryce said:
Tennis "purists" be damned! Grunting has been present ever since Monic Seles did it 25 years ago. If tennis fans haven't gotten used to it by now, then they've liked stopped being fans a long time ago. Attendance doesn't seem to be struggling, so it seems to be the keyboard warriors who are doing most of the complaining. Until the players begin to complain about their opponents doing it and impeding them, it's a non issue. If it's not actually affecting play, then it should be legal. Besides you can address women grunting without also addressing the men because then you're just being sexist.

As far as illegal coaching goes...if they want to make it "legal", then I don't have a problem with that. Coaching is allowed in every other sport except tennis (for whatever reason). Even boxing allows coaching!...
Click to expand...

Is attendance for the WTA doing well? I have no idea, just asking. I know someone was saying a clay court men's tournament a couple of months ago was played in front of virtually nobody; supposedly tickets were overpriced or something.

I don't think one can objectively say whether squealing affects play but I'd venture a guess. It has been pretty much taken as gospel that a spectator giving as much as a half-cough even between points is blasphemous, detrimental and borderline criminal. So I'd say that someone screaming at the top of their lungs during and even after striking the ball is affecting play :)

Agree on the coaching; if it is deemed legal then it is. I have no problem with two or three coaching timeouts during matches. But giving advice from the players' box should not be allowed, IMO, it is distracting to the other player among being totally amateurish. Tennis' standards are supposed to be pretty high, after all.
 
MLRoy

MLRoy

Hall of Fame
Aussie Darcy said:
Steve Simon is a complete idiot and is just tearing the WTA apart from the inside. I miss Stacey.
Click to expand...
I'm def not crazy about those two ideas but, Darcy, how can you miss Allaster?! She's the reason we're all seeing less WTA matches on TV and online. Her "brilliant" greed-grab to sell the TV rights/her soul, if she has one, to those "feminists" at al-jazeera-owned BEIN, was THE stupidest move the wta made since letting Renee Richards play in the '70s. Pretty sure that's what got her removed (not her teenage son wanting her back home, like she said!!!). I think of that dumb "snuke" every time I miss a good match, which has been often.
 
JDogg

JDogg

Rookie
Did anyone else watch Wozniacki-Muguruza yesterday? Mary Carillo went on a 10 minute rant about coaching during a pause, I'm trying to find a youtube video, but it made for some weird television regardless. Someone needs to ask her to please calm down.

One of my favorite (paraphrased) lines was:

"These are some of the most gifted female athletes IN THE WORLD!!, and you're going to coach them??" Uhh yea almost all high profile athletes have a coach, Mary.
 
MLRoy

MLRoy

Hall of Fame
Kalin said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/te...arry-grunting-Groans-stay-say-WTA-chiefs.html

"The head of the WTA Tour will risk angering purists by shelving plans to curtail grunting while pressing to abolish rules restricting coaching.

Steve Simon, the tour's chief executive, is relaxed about the repeat yelping of players, which will become more prevalent this year with the return of Victoria Azarenka and Maria Sharapova.

He also wants to challenge the age-old idea in tennis that coaches are not allowed to issue instructions from the stands. This currently incurs a $5,000 fine and official warnings from umpires.

While grunting is not just a female issue, last Sunday's final in Indian Wells was marked by constant screams from winner Elena Vesnina.

Explorations into decibel levels set in motion by former WTA supremo Stacey Allaster have been abandoned although there is advisory education on the topic for younger players. 'I don't plan on pursuing anything to eliminate grunting,' said Simon. 'I don't know how you stop grunting. We do have rules in place that if we feel it's forced and it becomes a hindrance then obviously there are rules that address that."

Please discuss... or scream about it, also good. You are free to ask for advice as well.
Click to expand...
I like Vesnina, but she's not only screaming. She's screaming a word/phrase. Petkovic does the same thing, not that it helps her. I'm surprised an opponent hasn't complained to the umpire about it. Someone probably has. Remember a million years ago, when we were barely tall enough to turn on the TV, they cowed Seles enough to shut her up in a slam final, and she lost?!
 
Alexrb

Alexrb

Professional
Kalin said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/te...arry-grunting-Groans-stay-say-WTA-chiefs.html

"The head of the WTA Tour will risk angering purists by shelving plans to curtail grunting while pressing to abolish rules restricting coaching.

Steve Simon, the tour's chief executive, is relaxed about the repeat yelping of players, which will become more prevalent this year with the return of Victoria Azarenka and Maria Sharapova.

He also wants to challenge the age-old idea in tennis that coaches are not allowed to issue instructions from the stands. This currently incurs a $5,000 fine and official warnings from umpires.

While grunting is not just a female issue, last Sunday's final in Indian Wells was marked by constant screams from winner Elena Vesnina.

Explorations into decibel levels set in motion by former WTA supremo Stacey Allaster have been abandoned although there is advisory education on the topic for younger players. 'I don't plan on pursuing anything to eliminate grunting,' said Simon. 'I don't know how you stop grunting. We do have rules in place that if we feel it's forced and it becomes a hindrance then obviously there are rules that address that."

Please discuss... or scream about it, also good. You are free to ask for advice as well.
Click to expand...

You seen this yet?

 
Big_Dangerous

Big_Dangerous

Talk Tennis Guru
JDogg said:
Did anyone else watch Wozniacki-Muguruza yesterday? Mary Carillo went on a 10 minute rant about coaching during a pause, I'm trying to find a youtube video, but it made for some weird television regardless. Someone needs to ask her to please calm down.

One of my favorite (paraphrased) lines was:

"These are some of the most gifted female athletes IN THE WORLD!!, and you're going to coach them??" Uhh yea almost all high profile athletes have a coach, Mary.
Click to expand...

Even Roger Federer, the GOAT has a coach! ;)
 
MLRoy

MLRoy

Hall of Fame
JDogg said:
Did anyone else watch Wozniacki-Muguruza yesterday? Mary Carillo went on a 10 minute rant about coaching during a pause, I'm trying to find a youtube video, but it made for some weird television regardless. Someone needs to ask her to please calm down.

One of my favorite (paraphrased) lines was:

"These are some of the most gifted female athletes IN THE WORLD!!, and you're going to coach them??" Uhh yea almost all high profile athletes have a coach, Mary.
Click to expand...
When she's not phoning it in, she's saying some really inane things. My fav was when she was trying to manipulate Navratilova into saying she was glad to see Williams break her slam record ("Of course not! Why would I be?").
 
MLRoy

MLRoy

Hall of Fame
PDJ said:
On court coaching:

"Shut the f*** up"

http://baseline.tennis.com/article/65015/muguruzas-coach-miami-open-third-round
Click to expand...
Thanks for bringing that up, PDJ. I didn't watch that match, there's nothing on YT on it, so I would've missed that completely if you hadn't. And who wants to miss a player swearing at their coach, right?! I'm still kind of shocked. I don't get the being nasty, no eye contact, attitude-thing during the on court coaching especially. That coach is probably the only one, depending on locale/opponent, in that huge audience of 37 who's rooting for you. Why sh*t on someone helping you? It's stupid. If I were her, I'd ask Carla to play doubles again. At this stage, it'd only help her. And CSN's game needs a lot of help, too.
 
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esgee48

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
I call it loss of MENTAL conditioning rather than PHYSICAL conditioning. Stated it earlier, it's player against player, not a team vs team. Should be banned and if caught, point penalties followed eventually by match default. If the player is so stupid as to NOT know what to do, then maybe they should not be playing matches for $$.

edit: If they do allow this, there will be asterisks next to players that win with on-court coaching. o_O
 
Pmasterfunk

Pmasterfunk

Hall of Fame
Kalin said:
Is attendance for the WTA doing well? I have no idea, just asking. I know someone was saying a clay court men's tournament a couple of months ago was played in front of virtually nobody; supposedly tickets were overpriced or something.
Click to expand...
I'm interested to see what happens in a couple of years when Rogie boy, Rafer, and Djokster retire. I'm pretty sure there's going to be a sharp decline in ATP viewership.
 
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S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
MLRoy said:
My fav was when she was trying to manipulate Navratilova into saying she was glad to see Williams break her slam record ("Of course not! Why would I be?").
Click to expand...

The eras are too different for either one to take the comparison seriously
 
C

captainbryce

Hall of Fame
PDJ said:
Re tournaments - I and many others, have commented on the lack of spectators for MANY televised matches on the WTA Tour.
Easy enough to see for yourself on YouTube.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I'm not buying that as an excuse to ban grunting on the women's side and not the men's side. For one thing, there are many reasons that contribute to lack of interest in WTA matches that go well beyond something as trivial as grunting, and they are hardly recent developments. Women's tennis has always revolved around the stars, and there's never been much interest outside of the biggest personalities. Even I have to admit that I generally only care about matches when a Williams sister is playing. In the past Henin, Clijsters, Hingis, etc. Those are names that draw fans; players who are hall of famers (present or future) and likely to win majors. Outside of those select relatively few names, there just isn't the same kind of fan base for women's tennis. Changing the rules for grunting isn't going to address that fundamental issue.

Yes, men also grunt but few make such an ear-piercing noise as some women.
Click to expand...
Irrelevant. Unless you make the rule FAIR, as in applying it equally, you're going to have the perception of sexism.

Quite a few players are on record complaining about excessive noise from opponents: Navratilova complained vigorously about Seles when she played her, and many have since until the present day.
Click to expand...
The only player I've ever heard complain about an opponent grunting was Navratilova because she's a drama queen). She still complains about it to this day (how long has she been retired?). In any case, nobody took it seriously then, and even though there are many more grunting players today, very few openly complain about it. It's a non issue.
 
Kalin

Kalin

Legend
Pmasterfunk said:
I'm interested to see what happens in a couple of years when Rogie boy, ****, and Djokster retire. I'm pretty sure there's going to be a sharp decline in ATP viewership.
Click to expand...

For a while, maybe. But the ATP has had many greats retire and it's still going strong. Just among the new crop of 20-somethings there are already a few very big draws. Guys like Zverev, Kyrgios, Rublev, the new North American gen (Tiafoe, Fritz, Shapovalov) are all moving the needle big way already.

The girls have the anorexic looking Pliskova twin towers and a lost Halep holding the next-gen torch. An old, half-forgotten Sharapova will instantly be the top draw once she returns. They desperately need someone with personality and looks to step up. Muguruza looked like it but she also seems to have been overburdened by the expectations.
 
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