I'm at Wits End..Another 2 rackets shrunk 1/8 Inch

K

kenshireen

Professional
I have posted before about my many Wilson 7.0 Stef Graf rackets that have shrunk on my Bab 2 stringer.
I though it was possibly because they are soft..

But today I strung 2 rackets... including a BLX Team Blade... I measured with the original strings at they were both 27 inches on the head... After stringing 26 7/8.

I used 2 piece on both...Gosen Micro at 55 pounds.

The posts are 6 and 12 and tight... really tight... the thumb screws are finger tight.
I am considering not using the thumb screws and just going with the posts.

There has got to be a reason why this is happening.
 
10shoe

10shoe

Professional
Next time you see a True Tension machine for sale on the big auction site, go for it. That is the machine for you. In the meantime, try upping the tension on the crosses by a few pounds. And be sure to nudge your crosses out of line and then back into line while the tensioner is pulling to get the most tension on them.
 
R

ricardo

Hall of Fame
kenshireen said:
I have posted before about my many Wilson 7.0 Stef Graf rackets that have shrunk on my Bab 2 stringer.
I though it was possibly because they are soft..

But today I strung 2 rackets... including a BLX Team Blade... I measured with the original strings at they were both 27 inches on the head... After stringing 26 7/8.

I used 2 piece on both...Gosen Micro at 55 pounds.

The posts are 6 and 12 and tight... really tight... the thumb screws are finger tight.
I am considering not using the thumb screws and just going with the posts.

There has got to be a reason why this is happening.
Click to expand...

This happened to me before, especially when using sticky strings (high friction strings).
When your crosses are tensioned too low (>5 lbs) compared to your mains, some head squashing occurs.

I found out that my crosses are under-tensioned due to high string-to-string friction.
I solved this problem by moving the crosses back/forth while being tensioned.
This back/forth movement releases the friction and causes the horizontal bar to drop (dropweight tensioner).
 
Irvin

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
kenshireen said:
I have posted before about my many Wilson 7.0 Stef Graf rackets that have shrunk on my Bab 2 stringer.
I though it was possibly because they are soft..

But today I strung 2 rackets... including a BLX Team Blade... I measured with the original strings at they were both 27 inches on the head... After stringing 26 7/8.

I used 2 piece on both...Gosen Micro at 55 pounds.

The posts are 6 and 12 and tight... really tight... the thumb screws are finger tight.
I am considering not using the thumb screws and just going with the posts.

There has got to be a reason why this is happening.
Click to expand...
Try using the Stringway Tension Advisor.
 
R

ricardo

Hall of Fame

Gosen Micro is a sticky string (according to TWU, http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/reporter2.php).

If you don't do anything about this, the under-tensioning could be as much or greater than 10lbs.
So in effect, your mains would be @55, while your crosses would be tensioned @45 due to high string-2-string friction.

When you string the crosses, move the crosses back/forth several times while being tensioned.
On a dropweigth stringer, the feedback is very obvious: the bar drops abruptly/significantly.
On a non-dropweigth stringer, I don't know what feedback you will get.
 
Last edited:
lwto

lwto

Hall of Fame
kenshireen said:
What is too tight... the posts/thumbscrews/string tension
Click to expand...

I used to have a problem with racquet shrinkage, the problem I had was the 12 and 6 oclock clamps were too tight.

once I loosened it to the point where the racquet just slide around, I mean not real loose but loose enough, the problem went away.
the 4 points are tightened well, the head and throat point are loose.

It's what Babolat recommended if I remember reading.
 
K

kenshireen

Professional
lwto said:
I used to have a problem with racquet shrinkage, the problem I had was the 12 and 6 oclock clamps were too tight.

once I loosened it to the point where the racquet just slide around, I mean not real loose but loose enough, the problem went away.
the 4 points are tightened well, the head and throat point are loose.

It's what Babolat recommended if I remember reading.
Click to expand...
I would think that a looser 6/12 would only create more of a shrinkage since they are inside the head of the frame.
But, since all else has failed I will try to loosen it.
I would think that when I cut the strings out that the racket would go back to its original length
 
lwto

lwto

Hall of Fame
kenshireen said:
I would think that a looser 6/12 would only create more of a shrinkage since they are inside the head of the frame.
But, since all else has failed I will try to loosen it.
I would think that when I cut the strings out that the racket would go back to its original length
Click to expand...

See I believe the issue is when you tighten it to tight, you don't allow the racquet to form in it's natural state, in other words by forcing it, you create your own pattern.

Of course their are some really weak frames that are very flexible without the string support. I also found, tighter croses help reduce any shrinkage... good luck let us know how it goes.
 
esgee48

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
Add me to this list. Do not have this issue except with customers that want different tensions on mains and crosses. Only 2 factoids can cause the frame to squash. One is incorrect mounting. Two is not getting the tension right on the crosses, i.e. too low. The fact that he seems to always end up at 26 7/8" tells me the problem is systemic.
 
C

chrisingrassia

Professional
Why is this a concern?
You're putting 55# of horizontal and lateral pressure on an oblong composite material which causes it to flex 2mm?!? If it didn't flex somewhat, it would just shatter during stringing/playing. Making a mountain out of a molehill here...... Think about it. There is nothing inherently built into the stringer or mounts that prevent the frame head from shrinking during stringing process. It's just what happens when you high-stress composite material
 
Last edited:
J

jhupper

Rookie
It's dam annoying isn't it. I've tried most everything I can think of but yet some rackets seem to just do it. I've just strung 2 speed mps and both shortened between 1/8 and 1/16. That being said I've strung tons of volkls, tecnifibres, Wilson's and most other brands that are spot on.... generally I find head are frequently a problem, and one old Wilson also did it.

I remain convinced there must still be a solution though
 
esgee48

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
Sample report from Learning Center at 51#. Data item is called COF

String,Stiffness (lb/in),String/String COF
Babolat Tonic + Natural Gut 16,103.4,NA
Luxilon Big Banger Original 130/16,233.7,0.082
Klip Synthetic Gut 16,165.7,0.085
Ashaway MonoGut ZX 16,114.3,0.088
Babolat RPM Blast 16,267.5,0.09
Gosen OG-Sheep Micro 16,192.0,0.105
Gamma Synthetic Gut 16,200.6,0.113
Prince Syn Gut Original 16,189.7,0.124
Babolat Xcel 16,161.7,0.131
Pacific Tough Gut 16,115.4,0.18

Data is sorted by COF. Zyex is very slippery. Your OGSM has a COF of 0.105, which is better than my Gamma SG (0.113) and POSG (0.124). Klip SG is good and is up there with BBO. RPM Blast is not as slippery as BBO, which is expected since Blast is a shaped poly.
 
R

ricardo

Hall of Fame
kenshireen said:
[QUOTE="ricardo, post: 10969530, member: 54415"]Gosen Micro is a sticky string (according to TWU, http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/reporter2.php).


Which measurement on the learning center would indicate it is a "sticky string".. What are the parameters. What is a non-sticky string.
I will try that and see if it changes the overall result.

Thanks
Click to expand...

String-to-String Friction (COF)

All strings are sticky (COF > 0).
Some are less sticky than others.

The higher the number (COF), the more sticky the string.

The least sticky string is Pacific Poly Power Pro 16 (1.30), COF= 0.059
The most sticky string is Tecnifibre X-One Biphase 16, COF= 0.314
 
Last edited:
K

kenshireen

Professional
OK.
I just strung a prince EXPO3.
Measured it without string exactly 27.. measured with my gosen micro 17G 26 7/8.
The posts are 6 and 12 and very snug inside the head... how can the head shrink if it is secured tightly to the mounting posts..
All the knobs on the underside are very tight... that table should not move. I used 2 piece stringing and only pull one cross at a time (yeah, I know it makes it harder to thread)

Ken
 
McLovin

McLovin

Legend
Did you measure it after pulling it off the machine? Just because you've tightened the posts doesn't mean the frame won't compress once you take it off the posts.

Now, if you measured 26 7/8 while it was still on the machine, then something is slipping while stringing.
 
Irvin

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
kenshireen said:
OK.
I just strung a prince EXPO3.
Measured it without string exactly 27.. measured with my gosen micro 17G 26 7/8.
The posts are 6 and 12 and very snug inside the head... how can the head shrink if it is secured tightly to the mounting posts..
Click to expand...
Turn tables flex and the standards bend in. You pull 180 lbs of tension on the center right three mains and another 180 lbs of tension on the left side and that's just on the first 6 mains. All machines bend in some just recover better than others.
 
R

ricardo

Hall of Fame
kenshireen said:
OK.
I just strung a prince EXPO3.
Measured it without string exactly 27.. measured with my gosen micro 17G 26 7/8.
The posts are 6 and 12 and very snug inside the head... how can the head shrink if it is secured tightly to the mounting posts..
All the knobs on the underside are very tight... that table should not move. I used 2 piece stringing and only pull one cross at a time (yeah, I know it makes it harder to thread)

Ken
Click to expand...

how can the head shrink if it is secured tightly to the mounting posts.

As soon as you un-mount the racket, it will shrink.

You can confirm this easily.

After you finished stringing the crosses, measure the racket while it is still mounted.
After un-mounting the racket, measure it again.

If the crosses's tension are too low compared to the mains, shrinkage will occur.
 
MathieuR

MathieuR

Hall of Fame
10shoe said:
Next time you see a True Tension machine
Click to expand...
........
I think this is the only stringer that doesn't deform after doing the mains.
But it doesn't help you to avoid "shrinkage" if balance between the mains and crosses-force on the frame is off!

Irvin said:
Try using the Stringway Tension Advisor.
Click to expand...
Helps me tremendously to keep the heads " in shape"

Irvin said:
Turn tables flex and the standards bend in.
Click to expand...
After doing the mains on my Stringway the rackets head is 3mm shorter. When completing the crosses I can lift it tension-free from the 5-point inner-support system.
 
Irvin

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
@kenshireen you could try to increase the tension on the crosses by a couple of pounds to see what happens but I think using the on line tension adviser is a better option. http://www.stringway-nl.com/en/TAonline/calc.php What have you got to loose. bumping the tension up on the crosses will raise the dynamic tension of the stringbed so you may want to drop the tension on the mains by a little bit too. Let's say the TA recommends a difference of 3 lbs tighter on the crosses, then I would drop the tension on the mains by a little too. Say you normally string both mains and crosses at 60 lbs; then string the mains at 59 and crosses at 62. Measure the racket when you finish and adjust accordingly the next time you string for either feel or length measurement. I would not take the TA as Gospel.
 
K

kenshireen

Professional
Irvin said:
@kenshireen you could try to increase the tension on the crosses by a couple of pounds to see what happens but I think using the on line tension adviser is a better option. http://www.stringway-nl.com/en/TAonline/calc.php What have you got to loose. bumping the tension up on the crosses will raise the dynamic tension of the stringbed so you may want to drop the tension on the mains by a little bit too. Let's say the TA recommends a difference of 3 lbs tighter on the crosses, then I would drop the tension on the mains by a little too. Say you normally string both mains and crosses at 60 lbs; then string the mains at 59 and crosses at 62. Measure the racket when you finish and adjust accordingly the next time you string for either feel or length measurement. I would not take the TA as Gospel.
Click to expand...


This is amazing... I used the tension advisor...plugged in S2...comfort over power.... length was 33.0 cm and width was 25.4.
AND the recommended tension was 55 Cross and 48 main.
Do people really use this? It does not take into account the flexibility of the frame or the type of string you are using... Is it really valid?
 
Irvin

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
@kenshireen I'd give it a try I doubt 55/48 will harm your racket. You problem was you racket was coming up short right? String the racket with a +7 lbs on the crosses may just be the ticket.
 
K

kenshireen

Professional
I need help understanding how to use the Stringway Calculator.

I answer all the questions..enter the dimensions of the racket and get a suggested tension for the X and mains.
But nowhere does it ask me about the string I am using... so how does the string enter into the tension if it is
not asked for during the calculation process.
 
K

kenshireen

Professional
I just strung 53 main and 59 cross and still shrunk.. I give up... must be something with the Bab star 2....
I have taken it apart and put back together...everything looks good...
 
I

irdave

New User
Stop measuring it?

Bicycle wheels get smaller when you tension the spokes, too. And that's all aluminum and steel...
 
Herb

Herb

Semi-Pro
Just string the same way and try to get consistent results. If every racquet you string shrinks an 1/8th inch then congrats on getting consistent results.
 
am1899

am1899

Legend
@kenshireen - Not sure if this applies to the Star 2 or not...but thought I would share this in case it does. On a Baiardo, there are 2 set screws each on both the 6 and 12 support posts. One prevents the posts from twisting clockwise or counter clock wise. The other set screw takes out (or allows) "slop" toward the center of the turntable and away from the center. I've found that if this second set screw is loose, creep seems to occur with respect to the 6 and 12 supports, which can result in a slightly shorter frame. Once I firmed these up a bit, racquets have returned to coming off the machine nice and easy, and there's no noticeable difference to racquet length after stringing.
 
S

scott_home

New User
I had the same problem with klippermate. What I discovered is that all the nuts are tight before stringing. But the bottom two nuts that clamp onto the steel bar creep as soon as I start pulling the mains. The solution is to shim the gap between the nuts and the bar with sheet metal. No tower creep = no frame shrinkage.

Let me know if it works for you.
 
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