In praise of Kevlar/ZX hybrid!!!

welcome2petrkordaland · Jul 11, 2017

@bkfinch, take Shroud, Graycrait, & Travelerjam's word on it and do at least a 15 lb. tension differential, thoroughly prestretch both kevlar and zyex, and tell your to prestretch as well. I'd suggest with your 18x20, try 60/45. See if you don't have a tennis O.

(Caveat: if you don't play with spin and you don't have a lotta racket head speed, you're wasting your time. Also. careful when manually prestretching; don't bust your arse like I did--plant one foot back behind and set up a soft landing area in case you do fall back while doing the body lean manual prestretching method.)

bkfinch · Jul 12, 2017

Hey thanks guys !!!!

I was worried the Ashaway would be similar to the Forten but it really isn't, can tell by the feel (well also by the packaging but that's just the cover) that it's much higher quality stuff...

Yes I hit a lot of spin and racket head speed, no worries there. I will try the 20 lb differential first on a guinea pig racket. And it would be a stringer who does it not me- I have to make sure to request a certain stringer at this particular place I go to, they are a fast expanding shop and they have a lot of stringers on staff but only a few that are really sensitive to what they are doing.

Is that differential still recommended with poly crosses? (does a gauge differential matter either?) Was thinking to do Kevlar/4G, 4G is very nice and powerful at low tensions and always lasts a long time for me. I'm just wondering if the ZX really gives that much more power than a poly? I don't want to completely kill the power of the stringbed.

Shroud · Jul 12, 2017

bkfinch said:
Hey thanks guys !!!!

I was worried the Ashaway would be similar to the Forten but it really isn't, can tell by the feel (well also by the packaging but that's just the cover) that it's much higher quality stuff...

Yes I hit a lot of spin and racket head speed, no worries there. I will try the 20 lb differential first on a guinea pig racket. And it would be a stringer who does it not me- I have to make sure to request a certain stringer at this particular place I go to, they are a fast expanding shop and they have a lot of stringers on staff but only a few that are really sensitive to what they are doing.

Is that differential still recommended with poly crosses? (does a gauge differential matter either?) Was thinking to do Kevlar/4G, 4G is very nice and powerful at low tensions and always lasts a long time for me. I'm just wondering if the ZX really gives that much more power than a poly? I don't want to completely kill the power of the stringbed.

Zx is a ton more powerful than 4g. Night and day.

Kev/4g with a differential is pretty good if you like a firmer bed. Def lower the tensions as its harsher than kev/zx.

The only reason i am not using zx crosses is because you cant string them tigher than 60 lbs. so its poly crosses.

I prefer crosses to be the same or smaller gauge than the mains. So 16/17 17/18 or 17/17 is great. But 18/16 not as preferred imho

Yeah there was a poster who actually liked Forten better. Though pretty sure he made everyones ignore lists so maybe no one saw that. Ashaway just rocks imho especially if you prestretch

bkfinch · Jul 12, 2017

Shroud said:
Zx is a ton more powerful than 4g. Night and day.

Kev/4g with a differential is pretty good if you like a firmer bed. Def lower the tensions as its harsher than kev/zx.

The only reason i am not using zx crosses is because you cant string them tigher than 60 lbs. so its poly crosses.

I prefer crosses to be the same or smaller gauge than the mains. So 16/17 17/18 or 17/17 is great. But 18/16 not as preferred imho

Yeah there was a poster who actually liked Forten better. Though pretty sure he made everyones ignore lists so maybe no one saw that. Ashaway just rocks imho especially if you prestretch

So I'm hoping for my stringer's sanity that what you mean by lowering the tension with 4G would be the overall tension and not thereby increasing the differential (!) Is that why you can get away with stringing the kevlar so tight, because the ZX at the low tension really compensates for power and softness?

4G in a full bed IMO at mid tension has very good power, and has a comfy elasticy-Luxilony stiffness. I like that. But much less ball 'bite'.

Also. I hit very minimally today with my Kevlar/ZX racket- the strings are done. Way too much tension loss, even though I still feel the kevlar biting the ball. The stringbed feels too soft and I've lost the uniform/predictable response from Sunday/Monday. Crap that must be... 5-6 hours of playing tops... Technically that's pretty bad!! Giving benefit of doubt since I got the tension really wrong and didn't request a prestretch.

Is the next closest thing to this basically a poly/gut hybrid with a fat tension differential?

Shroud · Jul 12, 2017

bkfinch said:
So I'm hoping for my stringer's sanity that what you mean by lowering the tension with 4G would be the overall tension and not thereby increasing the differential (!) Is that why you can get away with stringing the kevlar so tight, because the ZX at the low tension really compensates for power and softness?

4G in a full bed IMO at mid tension has very good power, and has a comfy elasticy-Luxilony stiffness. I like that. But much less ball 'bite'.

Also. I hit very minimally today with my Kevlar/ZX racket- the strings are done. Way too much tension loss, even though I still feel the kevlar biting the ball. The stringbed feels too soft and I've lost the uniform/predictable response from Sunday/Monday. Crap that must be... 5-6 hours of playing tops... Technically that's pretty bad!! Giving benefit of doubt since I got the tension really wrong and didn't request a prestretch.

Is the next closest thing to this basically a poly/gut hybrid with a fat tension differential?

Yeah i meant a lower over all tension but i still say a differerential of at least 20 lbs is the way to go if you are doing it. Iirc I did 86/56 with the kev/4g in my profile. Just saying that 4g is stiffer and everyone seems soooo sensitive to a firm stringbed so i an erring on the side of caution. And yeah zx is soft and with the kevlar strung high and the zx 20+ lbs lower its possible to get a comfy spinny long lasting bed.

The 5-6 hours is exactly why you do a manual prestretch to elongate the string, no around the pole method. Done correctly, kev/zx plays uniformly till it breaks which can be 50+ hours.

Ime kev/4g or kev and any poly has the same issues and prestretching is a must there too

bkfinch · Jul 13, 2017

Thanks for this @Shroud

I use a flexible 18x20 racket, have always liked the stiffer strings in it, or at least I will string the softer string tighter. 4G and Ashaway seem to be a really nice kind of stiff that play very even and not 'dead'.

Pulled out other racket strung with poly when I felt the Kevlar was too loose, couldn't believe the difference in feel, it was so... yuck !

bkfinch · Jul 13, 2017

One thing which surprised me about this string is that it's lighter than a full bed of poly- if I remember I think even 4 grams of difference. Those missing grams get put to 12, very nice to have a little extra polarization with this string setup.

pennc94 · Jul 20, 2017

So on the manual prestretch of both the Kevlar and ZX, tie at one end and pull with starting clamp some 20 feet away?

What type of player does this setup suit best? And why?

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travlerajm · Jul 20, 2017

pennc94 said:
So on the manual prestretch of both the Kevlar and ZX, tie at one end and pull with starting clamp some 20 feet away?

Might want to use another gripping method than a starting clamp, which might slip (tie it around a rod).

pennc94 said:
What type of player does this setup suit best? And why?

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The setup is best suited for players that play well with a stringbed that gives a combination of comfortable and tunable feel, high spin potential, and precise control. Players looking for something else probably won't like it.

pennc94 · Jul 20, 2017

Appreciate the response.
Your player description sounds like it could be anyone.
I'm a doubles S&V player. Also coming off golfers elbow so the thought of Kevlar at 60lbs makes me ache.

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Shroud · Jul 20, 2017

pennc94 said:
Appreciate the response.
Your player description sounds like it could be anyone.
I'm a doubles S&V player. Also coming off golfers elbow so the thought of Kevlar at 60lbs makes me ache.

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Fwiw thats my description at least when i was playing leagues. And yeah i had ge too. Now i play with stiff kevlar/poly and high high tensions. Kev/zx with a differential is soft and yeah its good for serves and volleys. Any player who needs directional control and hits with some spin can benefit from the kev/zx combo

skydog · Jul 21, 2017

pennc94 said:
Appreciate the response.
Your player description sounds like it could be anyone.
I'm a doubles S&V player. Also coming off golfers elbow so the thought of Kevlar at 60lbs makes me ache.

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While Kevlar is "stiffer" than poly, it is far more comfortable. I believe it's construction and physical properties dampen out the harsh vibrations compared to stiff polys. I had a bought of TE and switched from a Zyex/Poly hybrid to Kevlar/Zyex hybrid and have had zero elbow issues since.

Bisty · Jul 21, 2017

bkfinch said:
Yes I hit a lot of spin and racket head speed, no worries there. I will try the 20 lb differential first on a guinea pig racket. And it would be a stringer who does it not me- I have to make sure to request a certain stringer at this particular place I go to, they are a fast expanding shop and they have a lot of stringers on staff but only a few that are really sensitive to what they are doing.

Speaking of guinea pig rackets, would a 90 / 40 setup hurt a Head Liquidmetal 8?

bkfinch · Jul 21, 2017

Bisty said:
Speaking of guinea pig rackets, would a 90 / 40 setup hurt a Head Liquidmetal 8?

Well... someone would have to find out for themselves eventually...(!)

2nd Serve Ace · Jul 21, 2017

Bisty said:
Speaking of guinea pig rackets, would a 90 / 40 setup hurt a Head Liquidmetal 8?

That setup was great on my Jack Kramer woodie.

Really tamed the power. Lol

welcome2petrkordaland · Jul 22, 2017

Just wanted to chime in and give yet another shout out to this setup! For those of you who are not sold on this yet and think you may fit the build of the kind player who would benefit from this, just bite the bullet and try it!

But remember: PRESTETCH both Kevlar and Zyex (for a few minutes each) & use at least a 15 lb. tension differential... if you don't do these two things, you're wasting your time/$.

Also, this setup serves people who use spin (top AND SLICE!!), do NOT need power/pop from strings, and can produce their own pace-- IOW, it's low powered. But welcome to the control and spin potential of low tension full poly in a comfy, velvety string bed!

welcome2petrkordaland · Jul 22, 2017

and I forgot to mention, incredible durability!
(I'm a string breaker and use a string-eating 16 x 16 esp stick and its lasting me forever

graycrait · Jul 22, 2017

Don't get too excited about doing some extreme prestretching or even using the extreme tension differential. The issue is that Zyex should not be strung higher than 60lbs and Ash Kev will lose tension almost as fast as you string it. So string the Zyex cross on a lockout at 60-64lbs, less on a constant pull, then string the Ash Kev as tight as you want because it will lose a lot of tension off the stringer,then over night and later, after an hour or two of hitting. I think prestretching the Ash Kev is more important than prestretching the Zyex. When you prestretch Ash Kev you will not get much permanent lengthening but every little bit helps reducing post stringing tension loss. Too much prestretching Zyex and you ruin elasticity. The only elasticity Ash Kev has is provided by racket flexion. But the combo has this non-intuitive spin and comfort, while allowing you to "hit out." Not as much spin or "powerlessness" as poly but pretty good without the arm shock and it lasts for as long as the Ash Kev remains intact.

Outliar · Jul 22, 2017

Would Kevlar/zx eventually lock and lose its snapback if strung without a differential?

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Shroud · Jul 23, 2017

Outliar said:
Would Kevlar/zx eventually lock and lose its snapback if strung without a differential?

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Yes. Every string combo can lock eventually. The differential just makes the snapback more pronounced and last longer. No need to be afraid of the differential

graycrait · Jul 23, 2017

Outliar said:
Would Kevlar/zx eventually lock and lose its snapback if strung without a differential?

My experience is that the Ash Kev keeps sliding along the Zyex until it saws itself through whether strung at 75/60 or 62/60.

bkfinch · Aug 2, 2017

welcome2petrkordaland said:
@bkfinch, take Shroud, Graycrait, & Travelerjam's word on it and do at least a 15 lb. tension differential, thoroughly prestretch both kevlar and zyex, and tell your to prestretch as well. I'd suggest with your 18x20, try 60/45. See if you don't have a tennis O.

(Caveat: if you don't play with spin and you don't have a lotta racket head speed, you're wasting your time. Also. careful when manually prestretching; don't bust your arse like I did--plant one foot back behind and set up a soft landing area in case you do fall back while doing the body lean manual prestretching method.)

I don't trust my local stringers to do a pre stretch of that magnitude. Therefore I am thinking of doing Kevlar/4G/RPM Team/Very stiff tension maintenance poly. Fed up with short string life, although I admit I set up the zyex string last time wrong.

2nd Serve Ace · Aug 2, 2017

bkfinch said:
I don't trust my local stringers to do a pre stretch of that magnitude. Therefore I am thinking of doing Kevlar/4G/RPM Team/Very stiff tension maintenance poly. Fed up with short string life, although I admit I set up the zyex string last time wrong.

You just give the stringer the string, right? So do your own prestretch beforehand.

I would recommend 4g soft 1.25 above rpm with a 12-15 lb differential from the Kevlar main.

bkfinch · Aug 2, 2017

2nd Serve Ace said:
You just give the stringer the string, right? So do your own prestretch beforehand.

I would recommend 4g soft 1.25 above rpm with a 12-15 lb differential from the Kevlar main.

I don't own a stringing machine/can't do much of a pre stretch myself. Appreciate the recommendation for 4G Soft though !

welcome2petrkordaland · Aug 2, 2017

I bought a couple of Milwaukee stop clamps ($7 each) from Home Depot yesterday specifically for prestretching my strings. Although I've dabbled in most every kind of construction type job, I ain't the handyman type tbh... but manually prestretching isn't that complicated really and with the kevlar and zyex (I assume poly/copoly would also benefit to a degree from this, although correct me if I'm wrong, but the initial tension loss for polys/copolys pales in comparison to the ITL for both Zyex and Kevlar, hence why it's so crucial to prestretch with this combo.), it is crucial.

As it turns out, tomorrow I will do the prestreching for a few sticks using 2 stop clamps and a door knob or a well cemented post... I'll report back, but Ima get it done and can't wait; this high differential setup rocks the house.

I plan on doing two with 65/48 and maybe a wild card one with something like 67/50. My stick is 16 x 16, thus, it might behoove me to do slightly higher on the tension margins.

Happy hunting.

bkfinch · Aug 3, 2017

welcome2petrkordaland said:
correct me if I'm wrong, but the initial tension loss for polys/copolys pales in comparison to the ITL for both Zyex and Kevlar, hence why it's so crucial to prestretch with this combo.), it is crucial.

So you're saying the ITL for Zyex and Kevlar is worse than copolys ??

graycrait · Aug 3, 2017

bkfinch said:
So you're saying the ITL for Zyex and Kevlar is worse than copolys ??

The drop is sort of amazing. But when it settles it plays the same till the Kevlar saws itself through on the Zyex. If it were me I would string the Kevlar at 72lbs regardless of what the racket limit says unless you are worried about warranty. I've done a bunch and nothing broke yet. If you can see if you can prestretch the Kevlar, you might get an inch or less but seeing Kevlar really doesn't have much elasticity you will eliminate a bit of tension drop. I am not a big fan of pre stretching the half set of Zyex more than 12". Stretching it till it stretches "no mo" makes it dead and for me doesn't allow Zyex to do as a cross what makes it so great. Also when stretched to its limit I have broken it several times string crosses about 1/2 way in using a NEOS lockout and that is after stringing Zyex at least in 20 rackets, maybe double that.

Bisty · Aug 3, 2017

graycrait said:
If it were me I would string the Kevlar at 72lbs regardless of what the racket limit says unless you are worried about warranty. I've done a bunch and nothing broke yet.

So would it be safe to string the mains at 90ibs in a racquet with a rec. tension of 54-64 pounds? Also general string question: I have 2 half sets of kevlar and 1 full set of Zyex. I basically cut the Zyex to a length to match the kevlar. I'm not sure, but if the kevlar gets tangled up and I have to undo some kinks, does it ruin the string? I feel like I may have damaged it slightly...

2nd Serve Ace · Aug 3, 2017

graycrait said:
I am not a big fan of pre stretching the half set of Zyex more than 12". Stretching it till it stretches "no mo" makes it dead and for me doesn't allow Zyex to do as a cross what makes it so great.

I had a very similar experience last night with an ashK/poly that I'd presretched the crosses a lot more than usual. The crispness, feel and power were below what I like. Switched back to my other racquet (identical in every way, just not presretched) toward the end and played much better.

Lesson learned for me: need to preserve some livliness in the cross even if tension maintenance is somewhat compromised.

graycrait · Aug 3, 2017

The highest I have ever strung Kevlar is 75lbs. You have to talk Shroud about 90lbs

But his stringer only goes up to 86lbs and I think that is what he strings Kevlar at. As far as "safe" goes - if you are worried about busting your racket you better not - you just never know. If you are using Ashaway Kevlar I doubt you did any real harm untangling it, it isn't sensitive like natural gut. Some fraying here and there won't harm it. I wonder what the tensile strength of Ashaway Kevlar is? Some similar looking braided Kevlar utility string on the auction site is listed 300lbs and 1.10mm. 1.30mm must be quite higher tensile strength.

2nd Serve Ace · Aug 3, 2017

welcome2petrkordaland said:
I bought a couple of Milwaukee stop clamps ($7 each) from Home Depot yesterday specifically for prestretching .

Just a standard floating clamp for stringing works well too for this.

Shroud · Aug 3, 2017

Bisty said:
So would it be safe to string the mains at 90ibs in a racquet with a rec. tension of 54-64 pounds? Also general string question: I have 2 half sets of kevlar and 1 full set of Zyex. I basically cut the Zyex to a length to match the kevlar. I'm not sure, but if the kevlar gets tangled up and I have to undo some kinks, does it ruin the string? I feel like I may have damaged it slightly...

Probably depends on the racquet. I have strung the following sticks at 86/86:

Wilson Profile 2.7, 110 and 95
Wilson Blx 2
Wilson Burn 100s
Prince lightning 105
Prince Pog mid
Dunlop Bio 5.0L
Wilson Blx4
Wilson Burn95fst
Gamma something

No issues

Sticks with mains above max tension and crosses low:

Wilson 6.1 95 (18x20)
Prostaff 85
Wilson Hammer stretch 3.0
Technofiber 255g

And more i forget i am sure

bkfinch · Aug 3, 2017

Shroud said:
Probably depends on the racquet. I have strung the following sticks at 86/86:

Wilson Profile 2.7, 110 and 95
Wilson Blx 2
Wilson Burn 100s
Prince lightning 105
Prince Pog mid
Dunlop Bio 5.0L
Wilson Blx4
Wilson Burn95fst
Gamma something

No issues

Sticks with mains above max tension and crosses low:

Wilson 6.1 95 (18x20)
Prostaff 85
Wilson Hammer stretch 3.0
Technofiber 255g

And more i forget i am sure

How have you enjoyed stiff frames + stiff strings? I admit I am starting to find that the only way I can enjoy my flexy Pro Tours is with stiff strings, but with stiffer rackets I start to feel differently. A hitting partner did mention to me that I was hitting heavier spin when I switched to a stiffer racket in the hitting session, same strings/specs.

Shroud · Aug 3, 2017

bkfinch said:
How have you enjoyed stiff frames + stiff strings? I admit I am starting to find that the only way I can enjoy my flexy Pro Tours is with stiff strings, but with stiffer rackets I start to feel differently. A hitting partner did mention to me that I was hitting heavier spin when I switched to a stiffer racket in the hitting session, same strings/specs.

Always liked stiff strings. As i started adding sw and especially my big ass handle that add 50g, all i could find were stiff tweeners. As the sw went up the tension did too. Good thing is though that higher sw translates into arm friendlyness. And now i ditched the Burn 100s because its not stiff enough. Lol.

My two cents (only @esgee48 gets 3) is that there are advantages to stiff strings and stiff racquets. Basically its more precise and handles incoming spin much better.

So yeah i am a fan of stiffness....

welcome2petrkordaland · Aug 4, 2017

2nd Serve Ace said:
Just a standard floating clamp for stringing works well too for this.

@2nd Serve Ace:
Where did you get the standard floating clamp? Those stop clamps I got didn't work yesterday, so I need 2 floating ones.

2nd Serve Ace · Aug 5, 2017

welcome2petrkordaland said:
@2nd Serve Ace:
Where did you get the standard floating clamp? Those stop clamps I got didn't work yesterday, so I need 2 floating ones.

Are you doing a two person pull?

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welcome2petrkordaland · Aug 5, 2017

2nd Serve Ace said:
Are you doing a two person pull?

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No, it's been betw. me and a pole, and I've been using the end of a broom handle with a hole drilled in it to slide string thru/tie off on one end and the other end tied around a pole in a knot. Shroud, I believe, made the valid pt. NOT to wrap around a pole/other round object and pull two separate ends of strings, since the prestretch will be halved in terms of resistance, if that makes sense.

It ain't easy this way tbh, but the setup is awesome on many levels and lasts a while...

Still need to know where to get these floating clamps...

2nd Serve Ace · Aug 6, 2017

That honestly sounds like a pretty good method. The broom handle would seem to allow more body lean from the user than a clamp.

welcome2petrkordaland · Aug 6, 2017

2nd Serve Ace said:
That honestly sounds like a pretty good method. The broom handle would seem to allow more body lean from the user than a clamp.

yes indeed. fyi, i've noticed that with broom handle method, it helps to tie the other end of string (the end tied to a cemented post preferably) a little higher up and not exactly level with your hands... So it's at an angle, so that you're leaning back & don't have to pull quite so much. Also, Id imagine that there's more resistance that way. Cuz simply pulling or even just leaning for minutes ain't easy lol, and so far, I've been giving it 3 to 4 minutes, although Graycrait, I think, mentioned that overstretching the zyex crosses limits the performance of it. So there's that; however like i've mentioned, zyex loses friggin' 5 lbs. of tension so fast it makes your head spin, so it's a catch-22

graycrait · Aug 6, 2017

I've been wondering how Ashaway Kevlar x dead poly would play on a long term basis.

bkfinch said:
Therefore I am thinking of doing Kevlar/4G/RPM Team/Very stiff tension maintenance poly.

I've got thousands of feet of cheap poly. Heck, might as well prestretch (kill) some and try it out as a cross just to see if any old dead poly will work.

2nd Serve Ace · Aug 6, 2017

welcome2petrkordaland said:
although Graycrait, I think, mentioned that overstretching the zyex crosses limits the performance of it. So there's that; however like i've mentioned, zyex loses friggin' 5 lbs. of tension so fast it makes your head spin, so it's a catch-22

My xperience also is n line with Graycait that prestretch on the crosses is more hurtful than helpful in terms of feel and touch loss with really not much more tension maintenance.

At the same time, I follow Mssrs Shroud and change the crosses out at ten hours, albeit at 4 lbs lower tension given that redoing the X has the effect of upping the main tension as well.

Still about two weeks away from doing a full restring including the Kevlar main, but I will include a monster prestretch on the mains and see how that goes. [emoji2]

travlerajm · Aug 6, 2017

graycrait said:
I've been wondering how Ashaway Kevlar x dead poly would play on a long term basis.

I've got thousands of feet of cheap poly. Heck, might as well prestretch (kill) some and try it out as a cross just to see if any old dead poly will work.

You can't "kill" a string by overstretching (unless you pull hard enough to break it). The more you stretch, the more elastic (and less plastic) it becomes. Higher elasticity means better energy return. But since the tension loss for a thoroughly prestretched string will be much less, you need to also reduce the reference tension accordingly, to avoid ending up with an over-tensioned stringbed, which may feel deader, despite having better energy return. The over-tight stringbed feels deader because more energy is lost to the ball being flattened in the impact.

Fully pre-stretched poly works great as a cross with kevlar especially if you string the kevlar at least 10-15 lbs tighter. You will want to drop the cross tension compared to what you use with Monogut ZX.

graycrait · Aug 6, 2017

travlerajm said:
Fully pre-stretched poly works great as a cross with kevlar especially if you string the kevlar at least 10-15 lbs tighter.

So, would 75lbs mains x 60lbs prestretched poly work? Or would it be better to use 65/40?

welcome2petrkordaland · Aug 6, 2017

2nd Serve Ace said:
My xperience also is n line with Graycait that prestretch on the crosses is more hurtful than helpful in terms of feel and touch loss with really not much more tension maintenance.

At the same time, I follow Mssrs Shroud and change the crosses out at ten hours, albeit at 4 lbs lower tension given that redoing the X has the effect of upping the main tension as well.

@2ndserveace:

I'd be interesting to see what would happen if you strung up 2 sticks with the kevlar/zyex hybrided at high tension differentials, one w/ zyex prestretched thoroughly, the other not prestretched. I'd be shocked if there weren't hours of difference between peak playability time.

Zyex plays great at first whether u prestretch or not; what happens after an hour or so of big cuts is a totally different thing imo. The ball will start to fly on you, once that zyex goes through its initial tension.

Sure, she's a high maintenance partner, but there are benefits.

travlerajm · Aug 6, 2017

graycrait said:
So, would 75lbs mains x 60lbs prestretched poly work? Or would it be better to use 65/40?

For kevlar/poly, I would start with closer to 60/45, depending on the pattern, and prestretch both. You should be able to get an extra 6 to 8" of relaxed length out of a 20-ft segment of poly.

skydog · Aug 6, 2017

Still loving this hybrid. I believe I have settled on 65 lb Kevlar mains with 50 lbs ZX crosses in my Prince Tour 98 ESP's. This hybrid was made for ESP string patterns. Durable with an insane amount of spin.

PS...using 10% machine prestretch and letting the ZX pulls stabilize for 30 seconds or so (on a constant pull Wise) I have been able to reduce my cross string length from 18 ft down to 15 ft off the reel with about 11 inches to spare off the gripper on the final cross pull (including extra length for starting clamp cross string start.)

Shroud · Aug 6, 2017

skydog said:
Still loving this hybrid. I believe I have settled on 65 lb Kevlar mains with 50 lbs ZX crosses in my Prince Tour 98 ESP's. This hybrid was made for ESP string patterns. Durable with an insane amount of spin.

PS...using 10% machine prestretch and letting the ZX pulls stabilize for 30 seconds or so (on a constant pull Wise) I have been able to reduce my cross string length from 18 ft down to 15 ft off the reel with about 11 inches to spare off the gripper on the final cross pull (including extra length for starting clamp cross string start.)

Cool man

Glad you are digging it. Thats a solid prestretch there.

Fwiw i dont recommend using a starting clamp with zx. Best to skip it and just use a tie off knot. Not a starting knot but basically start the crosses by double pulling the top two. Then set the clamp on the 2nd cross. Now pull tension on the top cross. Tie off as normal. Then string as normal.

Jim_e came up with that and i like it better because zx is fickle and my guess is that it makes the dreaded breakage while tying a knot more likely...

Outliar · Aug 7, 2017

Anyone who played with Kevlar/Zx extensively can tell the difference between ZX 16 or ZX Pro in the crosses?

skydog · Aug 7, 2017

Shroud said:
Cool man

Glad you are digging it. Thats a solid prestretch there.

Fwiw i dont recommend using a starting clamp with zx. Best to skip it and just use a tie off knot. Not a starting knot but basically start the crosses by double pulling the top two. Then set the clamp on the 2nd cross. Now pull tension on the top cross. Tie off as normal. Then string as normal.

Jim_e came up with that and i like it better because zx is fickle and my guess is that it makes the dreaded breakage while tying a knot more likely...

I use a starting block with my starting clamp to start the crosses and have not had any breakage issues, yet. Interesting enough, the couple of times I have broken ZX during tie off has been at the throat of the racquet when tightening the final knot on the last cross. I had only done it once after a dozen plus racquets with this hybrid and have since experienced knot breakage twice in my last 3 string jobs on the final cross. I use a starting clamp to help tighten the knots and have been careful not to over pull after I experienced my first break, but it has happened twice on the same racquet. It was a brand new Prince Tour 98 ESP right out of the plastic so I am starting to wonder if I have a sharp edge in or around the tie off grommet.

Shroud · Aug 7, 2017

skydog said:
I use a starting block with my starting clamp to start the crosses and have not had any breakage issues, yet. Interesting enough, the couple of times I have broken ZX during tie off has been at the throat of the racquet when tightening the final knot on the last cross. I had only done it once after a dozen plus racquets with this hybrid and have since experienced knot breakage twice in my last 3 string jobs on the final cross. I use a starting clamp to help tighten the knots and have been careful not to over pull after I experienced my first break, but it has happened twice on the same racquet. It was a brand new Prince Tour 98 ESP right out of the plastic so I am starting to wonder if I have a sharp edge in or around the tie off grommet.

Could be a grommet. Also next time look at the knot area prior. When it happened to me i think that was the part of the string that was last in the gripper. It may be racquet/machine dependent if its the last cross as you are experiencing. If it was a knot issue in general i would expect the issue would happen on the top knot too

In praise of Kevlar/ZX hybrid!!!

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