Cryotherapy

Znak · Dec 11, 2017

Has anyone tried or is currently using cryotherapy as a form of healing or rehab from injury? I'm curious as I know the pros use it, and I'm a big supporter or physiotherapy, wondering how much it actually helps.

ollinger · Dec 12, 2017

Znak said:
Has anyone tried or is currently using cryotherapy as a form of healing

using it in my practice with injured depressed patients; I have them do mental imagery of their injury and then cry about it

Znak · Dec 12, 2017

ollinger said:
using it in my practice with injured depressed patients; I have them do mental imagery of their injury and then cry about it

ha! badum ching

Nostradamus · Dec 12, 2017

Znak said:
Has anyone tried or is currently using cryotherapy as a form of healing or rehab from injury? I'm curious as I know the pros use it, and I'm a big supporter or physiotherapy, wondering how much it actually helps.

is that freezing the injury somehow ?? that doesnt' make sense. or is it just Cooling the area ? Cooling decreases the inflammation but it doesn't help it heal because of vasoconstriciton

Znak · Dec 12, 2017

Nostradamus said:
is that freezing the injury somehow ?? that doesnt' make sense. or is it just Cooling the area ? Cooling decreases the inflammation but it doesn't help it heal because of vasoconstriciton

That's the thing, there are reports stating that cryo helps promote healing. There's a new clinic not too far from me that opened and was wondering if it helped increase the recovery rate (would be great for some of my lingering issues).

For example:

nvr2old · Dec 12, 2017

I watched a Nadal pre Roland Garros documentary where he went into a cryo room for recovery treatment I think it was.

Nostradamus · Dec 12, 2017

Znak said:
That's the thing, there are reports stating that cryo helps promote healing. There's a new clinic not too far from me that opened and was wondering if it helped increase the recovery rate (would be great for some of my lingering issues).

For example:

What if the side effect is that it shrinks your Johnson permanently ?? isn't that bad ?

Znak · Dec 12, 2017

Nostradamus said:
What if the side effect is that it shrinks your Johnson permanently ?? isn't that bad ?

Ha! I think there's a sauna right next door to help with the expansion...

ChaelAZ · Dec 12, 2017

I wish I could do full body cryo, but I do have a small cryo unit that I use regularly for shoulder, wrist, elbow and knees.

I have the Vitalwrap unit I picked up on **** like new for less than $100, and it works well. There are plenty of newer ones too and I have been looking for a higher volume unit myself.

Znak · Dec 12, 2017

ChaelAZ said:
I wish I could do full body cryo, but I do have a small cryo unit that I use regularly for shoulder, wrist, elbow and knees.

I have the Vitalwrap unit I picked up on **** like new for less than $100, and it works well. There are plenty of newer ones too and I have been looking for a higher volume unit myself.

Woah, very cool, never heard of it. Not as cold as I was thinking, but that's still an interesting alternative to ice/heat pads

ChaelAZ · Dec 12, 2017

Znak said:
Woah, very cool, never heard of it. Not as cold as I was thinking, but that's still an interesting alternative to ice/heat pads

Yeah, pro cryo is like minus a bagillion degrees, so the ice units aren't as cold but have some of the same benefits. I love mine and recommend trying one at least.

Znak · Dec 12, 2017

ChaelAZ said:
Yeah, pro cryo is like minus a bagillion degrees, so the ice units aren't as cold but have some of the same benefits. I love mine and recommend trying one at least.

Good call, and it'll be cheaper in the long run. How long have you had yours?

In case anyone else is interested, I found other people commenting about a similar thread over on Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/IsItBullshit/comments/35tlrw/isitbullshit_cryotherapy/
https://www.reddit.com/r/triathlon/comments/2xwh3q/has_anyone_ever_tried_cryotherapy_is_it_really/
https://www.reddit.com/r/crossfit/comments/3pe40t/cryotherapy_good_or_bad/
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/3qk2hj/critical_article_on_the_cryotherapy_fad_that_a/

ChaelAZ · Dec 12, 2017

Znak said:
Good call, and it'll be cheaper in the long run. How long have you had yours?

Had it for 5 years now. Only issue has been needing to replace the hose once but we have hard water and I let it sit undrained for a month once.

Probably posting from the court between sets.

Znak · Dec 12, 2017

ChaelAZ said:
Had it for 5 years now. Only issue has been needing to replace the hose once but we have hard water and I let it sit undrained for a month once.

Probably posting from the court between sets.

oh woah, that's awesome looking! haha. So I'm guessing it helps you?

ChaelAZ · Dec 12, 2017

Znak said:
oh woah, that's awesome looking! haha. So I'm guessing it helps you?

It is a huge step up from and ice packs for sure. I can surround joints and muscles and can keep it on longer to cool and flush areas. I do it for my forearm like this once a week on Mondays after the weekend of hitting. Yes, it helps alleviate soreness and tightness.

I would look online to see comparable units. I don’t think they sell this anymore, but e Bay has them cheap and parts if needed. Newer ones are a bit more but probably better. [emoji1360]

Probably posting from the court between sets.

Znak · Dec 12, 2017

ChaelAZ said:
It is a huge step up from and ice packs for sure. I can surround joints and muscles and can keep it on longer to cool and flush areas. I do it for my forearm like this once a week on Mondays after the weekend of hitting. Yes, it helps alleviate soreness and tightness.

I would look online to see comparable units. I don’t think they sell this anymore, but e Bay has them cheap and parts if needed. Newer ones are a bit more but probably better. [emoji1360]

Probably posting from the court between sets.

This might be a worthy investment, appreciate you taking this time to share.

surfsb · Dec 13, 2017

Icing and cryotherapy (the later being cold shock) are two different things, but both will provide what is known as the Hunting reaction whereby blood restricts and flushes to aid with inflammation and injury. This is what icing gives you. But what cryotherapy gives you that icing does not, due to exposure to greater cold, is the production of cold shock proteins (a neurotransmitter hormone) in the body that reduces inflammatory agents, repairs synapse damage, increases collagen production, and decreases muscle atrophy, among other effects. This cannot be achieved through icing or ice baths and requires consistency to achieve.

Bottom line is cryotherapy works, but it works as a form of hormesis (ie to apply low doses overtime to produce a feedback response) and with the price that cryotherapy is offered up at that will add up $$$ very fast with the amount of times you'll need to go in. This is why people have become addicted to cryotherapy.

If you can afford it then by all means take advantage of it. More than anything else, the real benefit is time savings. If you're very serious about a training/lifting period and need recovery, the time and money spent to ice bath can add up. So there can be trade offs where cryotherapy in spared use will get you feeling great immediately if time is of the essence. If you want just a little touch up in lowering inflammation after daily activity, then maybe reusable ice packs and altering diet make more sense as a cost effective route.

My suggestion is to look for a Groupon deal to try it. I did a series of cryotherapy for a while and it certainly helped with a back issue I was having. But long term I just can't see making it a regular thing.

Dartagnan64 · Dec 13, 2017

surfsb said:
Icing and cryotherapy (the later being cold shock) are two different things, but both will provide what is known as the Hunting reaction whereby blood restricts and flushes to aid with inflammation and injury. This is what icing gives you. But what cryotherapy gives you that icing does not, due to exposure to greater cold, is the production of cold shock proteins (a neurotransmitter hormone) in the body that reduces inflammatory agents, repairs synapse damage, increases collagen production, and decreases muscle atrophy, among other effects. This cannot be achieved through icing or ice baths and requires consistency to achieve.

Bottom line is cryotherapy works, but it works as a form of hormesis (ie to apply low doses overtime to produce a feedback response) and with the price that cryotherapy is offered up at that will add up $$$ very fast with the amount of times you'll need to go in. This is why people have become addicted to cryotherapy.

If you can afford it then by all means take advantage of it. More than anything else, the real benefit is time savings. If you're very serious about a training/lifting period and need recovery, the time and money spent to ice bath can add up. So there can be trade offs where cryotherapy in spared use will get you feeling great immediately if time is of the essence. If you want just a little touch up in lowering inflammation after daily activity, then maybe reusable ice packs and altering diet make more sense as a cost effective route.

My suggestion is to look for a Groupon deal to try it. I did a series of cryotherapy for a while and it certainly helped with a back issue I was having. But long term I just can't see making it a regular thing.

I think you are making a lot of claims without much proof behind it.

Cold is cold. Too much and you get hypothermia, frostbite and tissue damage, just the right amount and you can reduce inflammation and stimulate healing. I can't imagine how a cold chamber or ice bath would be any different since both have the potential to produce severe hypothermia. So if they both can produce cold toxicity, they both can be dialled back to produce beneficial cold responses.

And cold shock proteins aren't neurotransmitters.

Znak · Dec 15, 2017

surfsb said:
Icing and cryotherapy (the later being cold shock) are two different things, but both will provide what is known as the Hunting reaction whereby blood restricts and flushes to aid with inflammation and injury. This is what icing gives you. But what cryotherapy gives you that icing does not, due to exposure to greater cold, is the production of cold shock proteins (a neurotransmitter hormone) in the body that reduces inflammatory agents, repairs synapse damage, increases collagen production, and decreases muscle atrophy, among other effects. This cannot be achieved through icing or ice baths and requires consistency to achieve.

Bottom line is cryotherapy works, but it works as a form of hormesis (ie to apply low doses overtime to produce a feedback response) and with the price that cryotherapy is offered up at that will add up $$$ very fast with the amount of times you'll need to go in. This is why people have become addicted to cryotherapy.

If you can afford it then by all means take advantage of it. More than anything else, the real benefit is time savings. If you're very serious about a training/lifting period and need recovery, the time and money spent to ice bath can add up. So there can be trade offs where cryotherapy in spared use will get you feeling great immediately if time is of the essence. If you want just a little touch up in lowering inflammation after daily activity, then maybe reusable ice packs and altering diet make more sense as a cost effective route.

My suggestion is to look for a Groupon deal to try it. I did a series of cryotherapy for a while and it certainly helped with a back issue I was having. But long term I just can't see making it a regular thing.

Very good review, thanks for sharing! I might wait for a deal to try it out as you mentioned. As an aside, without being too crass, is it dangerous/do you wear protection for your 'package' (excuse my ignorance)?

tennisaddict03 · Dec 15, 2017

Znak said:
Very good review, thanks for sharing! I might wait for a deal to try it out as you mentioned. As an aside, without being too crass, is it dangerous/do you wear protection for your 'package' (excuse my ignorance)?

I was able to get a great deal on Cryotherapy as a new member for $25.00 per session for the first two sessions. When I tried it, I had to wear a robe, underwear, socks, and very warm shoes. They would provide everything except the underwear. Once I got inside the chamber, i had to take my robe off and they gave me gloves to protect my hands. I could tell it definitely helped me more so than Icing ever had. I noticed my shoulder didn't feel as sore nor my forearm due to a lot of tennis played that week. I did it twice and felt great afterwards. Something to note as well is your body will burn a lot of calories due to the body trying to warm up after the cold shock.

I haven't gone back since due to the $65-75 price point per session. There are reduced price packages but you have to buy them in a 3 month package that has 10 visits a month to get the $25 per session.

Say Chi Sin Lo · Dec 15, 2017

surfsb said:
Icing and cryotherapy (the later being cold shock) are two different things, but both will provide what is known as the Hunting reaction whereby blood restricts and flushes to aid with inflammation and injury. This is what icing gives you. But what cryotherapy gives you that icing does not, due to exposure to greater cold, is the production of cold shock proteins (a neurotransmitter hormone) in the body that reduces inflammatory agents, repairs synapse damage, increases collagen production, and decreases muscle atrophy, among other effects. This cannot be achieved through icing or ice baths and requires consistency to achieve.

Bottom line is cryotherapy works, but it works as a form of hormesis (ie to apply low doses overtime to produce a feedback response) and with the price that cryotherapy is offered up at that will add up $$$ very fast with the amount of times you'll need to go in. This is why people have become addicted to cryotherapy.

If you can afford it then by all means take advantage of it. More than anything else, the real benefit is time savings. If you're very serious about a training/lifting period and need recovery, the time and money spent to ice bath can add up. So there can be trade offs where cryotherapy in spared use will get you feeling great immediately if time is of the essence. If you want just a little touch up in lowering inflammation after daily activity, then maybe reusable ice packs and altering diet make more sense as a cost effective route.

My suggestion is to look for a Groupon deal to try it. I did a series of cryotherapy for a while and it certainly helped with a back issue I was having. But long term I just can't see making it a regular thing.

Dartagnan64 said:
I think you are making a lot of claims without much proof behind it.

Cold is cold. Too much and you get hypothermia, frostbite and tissue damage, just the right amount and you can reduce inflammation and stimulate healing. I can't imagine how a cold chamber or ice bath would be any different since both have the potential to produce severe hypothermia. So if they both can produce cold toxicity, they both can be dialled back to produce beneficial cold responses.

And cold shock proteins aren't neurotransmitters.

"Cold shock proteins"?! LOL Yeah ok. That's like saying "cleansing" is a thing... oh wait...

Well, BS marketing materials are always easier to digest than actual scientific findings.

ChaelAZ · Dec 15, 2017

tennisaddict03 said:
I was able to get a great deal on Cryotherapy as a new member for $25.00 per session for the first two sessions. When I tried it, I had to wear a robe, underwear, socks, and very warm shoes. They would provide everything except the underwear. Once I got inside the chamber, i had to take my robe off and they gave me gloves to protect my hands. I could tell it definitely helped me more so than Icing ever had. I noticed my shoulder didn't feel as sore nor my forearm due to a lot of tennis played that week. I did it twice and felt great afterwards. Something to note as well is your body will burn a lot of calories due to the body trying to warm up after the cold shock.

I haven't gone back since due to the $65-75 price point per session. There are reduced price packages but you have to buy them in a 3 month package that has 10 visits a month to get the $25 per session.

I am really wanting to try this. The one cryo place in Scottsdale AZ has an intro session for $20 and then I think it is $40 to $60 a session after that. I just want to feel the effect.

Curious · Dec 15, 2017

Antiinflammation or proinflammation, that's the biggest question. Inflammation is one of the best survival mechanisms body uses. It's there to protect you, fix the damage, repair it except the silly inflammation where body gets confused and stuffs up like rheumatoid arthritis, Coeliac disease, lupus. Maybe all sports injuries need heat not cold. I don't think cold does anything good but pain relief and that's at the expense of slowing down/stopping the healing process. But it's obvious that it tricks large number of people because pain is not pleasant. Continue with ice, cold, cryo whatever if you want to make your injury chronic.

Znak · Dec 18, 2017

I can understand people being skeptical as it's our nature to justify or rationalise things. If you're interested have a watch as it's broken down by a doctor who did their own research paper on full body cryo:

Znak · Dec 30, 2017

ChaelAZ said:
I am really wanting to try this. The one cryo place in Scottsdale AZ has an intro session for $20 and then I think it is $40 to $60 a session after that. I just want to feel the effect.

They had an Xmas sale at the place nearby me. Very cool experience. Whether part of it was placebo or not, I did leave reenergized. It was interesting as soon as you step out, your injured areas become really pronounced as if you just reinjured yourself. A few days on my injuries did feel lessened (but again could just be my imagination, would need more sessions to come to a more decisive conclusion)

I would love to be able to afford this once a week, could feel like I would benefit personally. I guess for now I'll do it when there's a sale and maybe look more into a system that you have for the long run.

ByeByePoly · Dec 30, 2017

Znak said:
They had an Xmas sale at the place nearby me. Very cool experience. Whether part of it was placebo or not, I did leave reenergized. It was interesting as soon as you step out, your injured areas become really pronounced as if you just reinjured yourself. A few days on my injuries did feel lessened (but again could just be my imagination, would need more sessions to come to a more decisive conclusion)

I would love to be able to afford this once a week, could feel like I would benefit personally. I guess for now I'll do it when there's a sale and maybe look more into a system that you have for the long run.

From my TE reading, I came away thinking the ice is good for 1) swelling 2) pain. Anything beyond that was a "maybe". I was asking myself what @Curious brought up ... "isn't inflammation the body doing what it's suppose to ... and if so, should I interfere with it"?

I liked this guy's articles, although I know nothing about him. He had made a comment about ice that it probably doesn't work to stimulate healing, but it "might" and does no harm ... and it's cheap (obviously talking ice, not cryo).

https://www.painscience.com/about.php

Znak · Dec 30, 2017

ByeByePoly said:
From my TE reading, I came away thinking the ice is good for 1) swelling 2) pain. Anything beyond that was a "maybe". I was asking myself what @Curious brought up ... "isn't inflammation the body doing what it's suppose to ... and if so, should I interfere with it"?

I liked this guy's articles, although I know nothing about him. He had made a comment about ice that it probably doesn't work to stimulate healing, but it "might" and does no harm ... and it's cheap (obviously talking ice, not cryo).

https://www.painscience.com/about.php

Interesting I'll have to dig in more into his articles, seems like he does his research. Have a watch of the vid I posted above if you have time

Deleted member 23235 · Dec 30, 2017

got a session for xmas

I highly recommend the joe rogan podcast episode where he interviews a doctor that talks about the benefits. and also discusses the reason behind the death in cali (human error!)

SteveI · Jan 1, 2018

Very Interesting... Will have to do some reading on this for sure..

Znak · Jan 2, 2018

nytennisaddict said:
got a session for xmas

I highly recommend the joe rogan podcast episode where he interviews a doctor that talks about the benefits. and also discusses the reason behind the death in cali (human error!)

Likewise, posted it above! How did your session go? Thoughts?

GabeFSU · Jan 15, 2018

surfsb said:
Icing and cryotherapy (the later being cold shock) are two different things, but both will provide what is known as the Hunting reaction whereby blood restricts and flushes to aid with inflammation and injury. This is what icing gives you. But what cryotherapy gives you that icing does not, due to exposure to greater cold, is the production of cold shock proteins (a neurotransmitter hormone) in the body that reduces inflammatory agents, repairs synapse damage, increases collagen production, and decreases muscle atrophy, among other effects. This cannot be achieved through icing or ice baths and requires consistency to achieve.

Bottom line is cryotherapy works, but it works as a form of hormesis (ie to apply low doses overtime to produce a feedback response) and with the price that cryotherapy is offered up at that will add up $$$ very fast with the amount of times you'll need to go in. This is why people have become addicted to cryotherapy.

If you can afford it then by all means take advantage of it. More than anything else, the real benefit is time savings. If you're very serious about a training/lifting period and need recovery, the time and money spent to ice bath can add up. So there can be trade offs where cryotherapy in spared use will get you feeling great immediately if time is of the essence. If you want just a little touch up in lowering inflammation after daily activity, then maybe reusable ice packs and altering diet make more sense as a cost effective route.

My suggestion is to look for a Groupon deal to try it. I did a series of cryotherapy for a while and it certainly helped with a back issue I was having. But long term I just can't see making it a regular thing.

I started regular Cryo in the late Spring of 2017 due to some nagging knee and back pain. I agree with surfsb's post! It is just one of the recovery therapy tools that can help reduce recovery time/inflammation. It will not magically increase healing of something that is injured, but DOES help recovery time and reduce swelling.

I found a sensible monthly membership and use CRYO 4x per week right after tennis or circuit training or the am after. Definitely helps this mid-40s guy play 1-2 days after instead of feeling that I need 2-3 days off from time to time.

I advocate a groupon or trial monthly membership so that an individual can try it out and see if it helps them or not. The place I go to has pro soccer players using it all the time and they really feel it helps...not a bad selling point either.

TimeToPlaySets · Jan 17, 2018

Snake oil. All of it.

Deleted member 23235 · Feb 8, 2018

TimeToPlaySets said:
Snake oil. All of it.

do you mean you tried cryo snake oil? sounds interesting

Denio93 · Feb 12, 2018

Did u hear about the girl working in the spa who did sessions after the spa closed. she locked herself in and died? Crazy! Think this was in Las Vegas. Not to discourage any one I just wouldn't do it alone (needless to say probably). Same goes for saunas. Either way that is a heck of a way to go!

Znak · Feb 13, 2018

Denio93 said:
Did u hear about the girl working in the spa who did sessions after the spa closed. she locked herself in and died? Crazy! Think this was in Las Vegas. Not to discourage any one I just wouldn't do it alone (needless to say probably). Same goes for saunas. Either way that is a heck of a way to go!

Yeah I read up on it awhile back and seems like an anomaly. I think she wasn't placed at a proper height and wasn't getting the necessary oxygen. Joe Rogan alludes to it in the video I posted above.

Tshooter · May 23, 2018

surfsb said:
...
Bottom line is cryotherapy works, ...

FAKE NEWS

There is virtually no scientific support for cryotherapy. There are very few studies. (The nonsense pumped out by entities with a financial interest in the service don’t count, obviously.)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956737/

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