Federer has the highest peak ever

AnOctorokForDinner · Feb 13, 2019

Just a gentle reminder of this glorious truth, no?

Bestest peak of all space-time in AO, IW, Hamburg(Madrid?), Wimbledon, Cincinnati, USO, 1st fall (yes, Madrid 06 is the GOAT performance) and YEC (at least in the modern era). And that's me being cautious regarding Canada, certainly some of the more ardent devotees would put the legendary 2004 final up there with any other.

Shame on the heathen Djokodal worshippers for not acknowledging that their idols can only claim superiority in a limited domain (MC-Rome-RG for RAFA, Mugiami and Paris for Nolé), whereas, indeed, the kingdom of the FedGod (incessant praise be to him) is bigger than those two combined, as he is the real emperor of tennis that everyone must submit to with appropriate reverence. Truly, the younger lions beating up on the old and decrepit one only serves to highlight the hollowness of their victories that could never match the ballstriking heights of GOATerer. (But it doesn't hurt Fed to struggle with Agassi as he incredibly displayed prime level on HC as late as 2004, Rosewall-like.)

Nadal's lopsided resume is naturally well-known - GOAT at three events and top notch at another five, but severely lacking at six of them (1 AO and 0 Miami titles despite a multitude of finals, only 1 final/title in Cincy and 1st fall (Madrid) + 1 final in Paris, 0 YEC titles); but, in fact, Djokovic, who created magnified impression of ultra-high-peak with routine consistency at beating mugs and chokers of the real weak era we've been witnessing for the last five years, doesn't even have a top 5 Open Era peak at any of the top 5 events! Indeed, let's see:

AO - Federer, Safin (05 Safin peak vice-GOAT except Fedr), Edberg, Agassi, Sampras, Djokovic (6th);
RG - Nadal, Borg, Kuerten, Lendl, Wilander, Federer, maybe some of Courier/Bruguera/Muster as well, so 7or below;
Wim - Federer, Sampras, McEnroe, Laver, Borg, Becker, Edberg etc. (Djokovic 8th at best, probably not in top 10);
USO - Federer, Sampras, McEnroe, Lendl, Borg, Nadal, Djokovic (7th);
YEC - Federer, Sampras, McEnroe, Borg, Lendl, Djokovic (6th).

Unbelievable!

tennisfan2015 · Feb 13, 2019

TheAssassin · Feb 13, 2019

Djokovic 6th peak-level wise in Australia?

AnOctorokForDinner · Feb 13, 2019

TheAssassin said:
Djokovic 6th peak-level wise in Australia?

Amazing, isn't it? What a feeble era this has been to allow someone with such a subpar peak to hoard 7 titles

Nevermind that Djokovic met Federer dozens of times in it, that was a thoroughly weakened past-prime Federer who wasn't up to snuff, unlike the strong era titans Roddick (mostly), Hewitt, Philippoussis, Nalbandian, Davydenko, Blake, Ancic etc.

NoleFam · Feb 13, 2019

LOL. I know you're attempting humor and good read but Djoko is the sovereign in Australia man. Everyone else, included Federer, will bow down to the master.

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil · Feb 13, 2019

As a guy who loves being ironic and cynic when illustrating this place, I love these threads.

11/10, 10 being the highest possible peak level and 11 being Fedr's peak.

TearTheRoofOff · Feb 13, 2019

O M B I L E E B L E

AnOctorokForDinner · Feb 13, 2019

NoleFam said:
LOL. I know you're attempting humor and good read but Djoko is the sovereign in Australia man. Everyone else, included Federer, will bow down to the master.

I mean, if one doesn't really rate Djoko's dominance, no reason why they can't argue any of this since we don't have a time machine, and all those guys did play extremely well at their best so it doesn't look idiotic on the first glance, but I'm rather skeptical of rating 1/2-time champions over a 7-time champion. It's not impossible, though.

OldschoolKIaus · Feb 13, 2019

AnOctorokForDinner said:
Just a gentle reminder of this glorious truth, no?

Oh, this could be interesting!

AnOctorokForDinner said:
AO - Federer, Safin (05 Safin peak vice-GOAT except Fedr), Edberg, Agassi, Sampras, Djokovic (6th);

LMAO

These kind of threads always cheer me up.

NoleFam · Feb 13, 2019

AnOctorokForDinner said:
I mean, if one doesn't really rate Djoko's dominance, no reason why they can't argue any of this since we don't have a time machine, and all those guys did play extremely well at their best so it doesn't look idiotic on the first glance, but I'm rather skeptical of rating 1/2-time champions over a 7-time champion. It's not impossible, though.

I guess one could rate and then debate on an outlier on peak level like Safin in '05 but then I have multiple options to rate from Novak: '08, '11, '16 & '19. For me, Djoko is the supreme Australian ruler but it's fun watching people argue this stuff.

AnOctorokForDinner · Feb 13, 2019

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
As a guy who loves being ironic and cynic when illustrating this place, I love these threads.

11/10, 10 being the highest possible peak level and 11 being Fedr's peak.

Wait, if that's true then Fed's not possible. That means he's not real, like sqrt(-1). So you're saying FEDR is a but a complex phantasm that needs to be squared to get something measureable, eh? Clever stuff.

AnOctorokForDinner · Feb 13, 2019

NoleFam said:
I guess one could rate and then debate on an outlier on peak level like Safin in '05 but then I have multiple options to rate from Novak: '08, '11, '16 & '19. For me, Djoko is the supreme Australian ruler but it's fun watching people argue this stuff.

Safin was outstanding that one time, but even then Federer should have won in four sets. Djokovic 12-15 is beatable by that kind of performance, but not the better versions, I expect. It would still be a competitive match throughout, like AO 13 Wawrinka would give any Djokovic a competitive match.

dr325i · Feb 13, 2019

Great, unbiased analysis OP.
Now, do not forget your lunch and today daddy's picking you up from School

NoleFam · Feb 13, 2019

AnOctorokForDinner said:
Safin was outstanding that one time, but even then Federer should have won in four sets. Djokovic 12-15 is beatable by that kind of performance, but not the better versions, I expect. It would still be a competitive match throughout, like AO 13 Wawrinka would give any Djokovic a competitive match.

I think Djokovic would be vulnerable to Safin in his '13-'15 performances because that wasn't him at his absolute best but '12 Djokovic went 5 hours against Murray and 6 hours against Nadal to get the title so he would have been very hard to put away. He fought like a lion when his back was against the wall.

alexio · Feb 13, 2019

AnOctorokForDinner said:
Safin was outstanding that one time, but even then Federer should have won in four sets.

roddick also should have won W 09

AnOctorokForDinner · Feb 13, 2019

NoleFam said:
I think Djokovic would be vulnerable to Safin in his '13-'15 performances because that wasn't him at his absolute best but '12 Djokovic went 5 hours against Murray and 6 hours against Nadal to get the title so he would have been very hard to put away. He fought like a lion when his back was against the wall.

Novak saved himself in the end, but those matches were pretty erratic throughout and should've been over in four sets if Djokovic showed some TBGOATness instead of playing a couple of wobbly points.
Safin's clutchness in that 5th set is rarely mentioned but it was actually epic, he kept getting out of 0-30 and 15-30 holes on serve again and again; and after failing to serve it out after getting overeager on MPs, didn't let himself dwell on that, saved 15-40 in the next service game like a boss and renewed the pressure on return until he just returned first serves at Federer's feet and that was it.

AnOctorokForDinner · Feb 13, 2019

alexio88 said:
roddick also should have won W 09

Federer should have won the first set, so it cancels the second set out.
It was a classic Sampras strategy of holding comfortably, then suddenly putting all energy in one return game to break, so he did at 5-5, and Roddick had to save BP after BP with serving, but on the 4th try Federer got the chance, set up a mighty FH and missed it long. Roddick held, abandoned fear and launched a surprise attack in the next game that Federer wasn't mentally ready for and ended up broken to 30 out of nowhere and losing the set 5-7.

NoleFam · Feb 13, 2019

AnOctorokForDinner said:
Novak saved himself in the end, but those matches were pretty erratic throughout and should've been over in four sets if Djokovic showed some TBGOATness instead of playing a couple of wobbly points.
Safin's clutchness in that 5th set is rarely mentioned but it was actually epic, he kept getting out of 0-30 and 15-30 holes on serve again and again; and after failing to serve it out after getting overeager on MPs, didn't let himself dwell on that, saved 15-40 in the next service game like a boss and renewed the pressure on return until he just returned first serves at Federer's feet and that was it.

I think Safin was a boss throughout that match and yes Djokovic was erratic at times in 2012 but I watched that final recently and it was some aggressive baseline skills from both Djokovic and Nadal in that one from the 1st point to the last. It was very intense and I would rate it as Djokodal's best match they ever played against each other. Djokovic would be tough to beat in 2012 for anyone in my opinion.

alexio · Feb 13, 2019

NoleFam said:
Djokovic would be tough to beat in 2012 for anyone in my opinion.

nadal helped him a bit in the decider as well

Towny · Feb 13, 2019

Not sure if this thread is really necessary. Yes Fed is unnecessarily exalted by many here and he is the darling of TTW. But Fed bashing threads are also on a much higher level than for Djokovic and Nadal at the moment. Djokovic is being lauded as the strong era GOAT at present. It's not as if his name is being dragged through the mud. Federer's definitely is though

RS · Feb 13, 2019

Towny said:
Not sure if this thread is really necessary. Yes Fed is unnecessarily exalted by many here and he is the darling of TTW. But Fed bashing threads are also on a much higher level than for Djokovic and Nadal at the moment. Djokovic is being lauded as the strong era GOAT at present. It's not as if his name is being dragged through the mud. Federer's definitely is though

Not really. Djokovic gets a lot of bashing for his 2015-16 and 2018-19 competition as much as Fed.
Federer for his 2003-07 competition
Nadal is the one a bit free of the fan hatred but he still gets called out a lot for winning to much on clay and skewing his H2H records.
It goes all ways with these fanwars.

RS · Feb 13, 2019

alexio88 said:
nadal helped him a bit in the decider as well

Nole could have won it in 4 though.

alexio · Feb 13, 2019

ReeceSachs said:
Nole could have won it in 4 though.

this "could" can be found million times throughout tennis history)

Im(moral) Winner · Feb 13, 2019

ReeceSachs said:
Not really. Djokovic gets a lot of bashing for his 2015-16 and 2018-19 competition as much as Fed.
Federer for his 2003-07 competition
Nadal is the one a bit free of the fan hatred but he still gets called out a lot for winning to much on clay and skewing his H2H records.
It goes all ways with these fanwars.

Not anywhere close.

tennisaddict · Feb 13, 2019

Every time needing 4 or 5 sets to beat Murray and Wawrinka indicates high level peak, right ??

Towny · Feb 13, 2019

ReeceSachs said:
Not really. Djokovic gets a lot of bashing for his 2015-16 and 2018-19 competition as much as Fed.
Federer for his 2003-07 competition
Nadal is the one a bit free of the fan hatred but he still gets called out a lot for winning to much on clay and skewing his H2H records.
It goes all ways with these fanwars.

There's bashing from both sides, for sure. But there are more threads being created to bash Federer or praise Djokovic. Basically any Lew, Spencer Gore or ABCD thread

AnOctorokForDinner · Feb 13, 2019

NoleFam said:
I think Safin was a boss throughout that match and yes Djokovic was erratic at times in 2012 but I watched that final recently and it was some aggressive baseline skills from both Djokovic and Nadal in that one from the 1st point to the last. It was very intense and I would rate it as Djokodal's best match they ever played against each other. Djokovic would be tough to beat in 2012 for anyone in my opinion.

The most intense baseline battle. A good deal of errors though, and mid-match was less intense that the first and last sets as Djokovic found the rhythm holding serve. 2018 Wimbledon is the best, I say, as it featured not only solid rallies, but great serving from both under pressure, and the match was super tight after the first set.

daddy · Feb 13, 2019

In fact even the federers twins ( either set ) are far superior to other tennis players' kids and have higher peak then novaks who are at distant 6th or 7th place at best. This of course determined before any of them even held a racket. There's no such thing as kids weak era btw.

Lew II · Feb 13, 2019

Im(moral) Winner said:
Not anywhere close.

For a reason.

Why would you bash someone for his competition if he won 6 slams out of 7 beating the best ranked opponent in the world (and no.3 in the other one)? LOL

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil · Feb 13, 2019

Im(moral) Winner said:
Not anywhere close.

Clearly wasn't here in 2015-16.

AnOctorokForDinner · Feb 13, 2019

Towny said:
There's bashing from both sides, for sure. But there are more threads being created to bash Federer or praise Djokovic. Basically any Lew, Spencer Gore or ABCD thread

Everyone worth considering knows those are shameless trolls and/or utter fools. What decent user is currently busy talking smack about The Greatest One?

Im(moral) Winner · Feb 13, 2019

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
Clearly wasn't here in 2015-16.

Meanwhile Fed bashing from 3-4 groups has lasted for over a decade now on various sites. Another great longevity record for Fraud.

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil · Feb 13, 2019

Im(moral) Winner said:
Meanwhile Fed bashing from 3-4 groups has lasted for over a decade now on various sites. Another great longevity record for Fraud.

Player who has played the longest has been bashed the longest. What an eye opener.

Im(moral) Winner · Feb 13, 2019

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
Player who has played the longest has been bashed the longest. What an eye opener.

Yup. Let see if the Novak bashing continues as long.

Towny · Feb 13, 2019

AnOctorokForDinner said:
Everyone worth considering knows those are shameless trolls and/or utter fools. What decent user is currently busy talking smack about The Greatest One?

They don't have to. The aforementioned posters and others like them are fairly dominant in thread creation at present

AnOctorokForDinner · Feb 13, 2019

Towny said:
They don't have to. The aforementioned posters and others like them are fairly dominant in thread creation at present

Who takes their openisions seriously but other fools?

ABCD · Feb 13, 2019

Federer won 12 GS in the absence of Nadal and Djokovic and 8 GS in the presence of Nadal and Djokovic. While all 3 play concomitantly, Federer has the fewest number of GS wins out of them.

alexio · Feb 13, 2019

ABCD said:
Federer won 12 GS in the absence of Nadal and Djokovic and 8 GS in the presence of Nadal and Djokovic. While all 3 play concomitantly, Federer has the fewest number of GS wins out of them.

paper champion

BeatlesFan · Feb 13, 2019

alexio88 said:
roddick also should have won W 09

ForehandRF · Feb 13, 2019

ABCD said:
Federer won 12 GS in the absence of Nadal and Djokovic and 8 GS in the presence of Nadal and Djokovic. While all 3 play concomitantly, Federer has the fewest number of GS wins out of them.

Mind you, Federer had only 4 GS when Nadal won his first.Nadal was already tough opposition on grass in 2006/2007 and on clay we already know the story.Your agenda should ran out of pages one day

Boom-Boom · Feb 13, 2019

AnOctorokForDinner said:
Just a gentle reminder of this glorious truth, no?

Bestest peak of all space-time in AO, IW, Hamburg(Madrid?), Wimbledon, Cincinnati, USO, 1st fall (yes, Madrid 06 is the GOAT performance) and YEC (at least in the modern era). And that's me being cautious regarding Canada, certainly some of the more ardent devotees would put the legendary 2004 final up there with any other.

Shame on the heathen Djokodal worshippers for not acknowledging that their idols can only claim superiority in a limited domain (MC-Rome-RG for RAFA, Mugiami and Paris for Nolé), whereas, indeed, the kingdom of the FedGod (incessant praise be to him) is bigger than those two combined, as he is the real emperor of tennis that everyone must submit to with appropriate reverence. Truly, the younger lions beating up on the old and decrepit one only serves to highlight the hollowness of their victories that could never match the ballstriking heights of GOATerer. (But it doesn't hurt Fed to struggle with Agassi as he incredibly displayed prime level on HC as late as 2004, Rosewall-like.)

Nadal's lopsided resume is naturally well-known - GOAT at three events and top notch at another five, but severely lacking at six of them (1 AO and 0 Miami titles despite a multitude of finals, only 1 final/title in Cincy and 1st fall (Madrid) + 1 final in Paris, 0 YEC titles); but, in fact, Djokovic, who created magnified impression of ultra-high-peak with routine consistency at beating mugs and chokers of the real weak era we've been witnessing for the last five years, doesn't even have a top 5 Open Era peak at any of the top 5 events! Indeed, let's see:

AO - Federer, Safin (05 Safin peak vice-GOAT except Fedr), Edberg, Agassi, Sampras, Djokovic (6th);
RG - Nadal, Borg, Kuerten, Lendl, Wilander, Federer, maybe some of Courier/Bruguera/Muster as well, so 7or below;
Wim - Federer, Sampras, McEnroe, Laver, Borg, Becker, Edberg etc. (Djokovic 8th at best, probably not in top 10);
USO - Federer, Sampras, McEnroe, Lendl, Borg, Nadal, Djokovic (7th);
YEC - Federer, Sampras, McEnroe, Borg, Lendl, Djokovic (6th).

Unbelievable!

very well said!

KINGROGER · Feb 13, 2019

Great post but disagree about AO, Djokovic in 2011 is highest peak there imo. Federer’s 04/07 are close though.

Federer takes it at Hamburg, Wimbledon, Cincinnati, USO, Madrid indoors (2006), Shanghai (2010/2014SF/2017F), Shanghai YEC (06-07)

arguably Paris 2011 too? Wouldn’t argue Nole is better there but 2013 Fed took peak Nole to 3 sets. 2011 version would take it imo.

YEC London 2010 Fed is a shout too. Vs 2012/2015 Nole.
MC, Rome, RG clearly Nadal. Madrid clay probably goes to him too.

Canada is probably Nole, just.

RS · Feb 13, 2019

Im(moral) Winner said:
Not anywhere close.

I think it is. Not as off now but generally Federer fans are in the majority. Right now it is trolling from Novak fans but it was not always the case.
For years it was Nadal the moonballer or PED cheat or the grunter.
Now it is Federer the weak era champion from angry Novak fans.

RS · Feb 13, 2019

Towny said:
There's bashing from both sides, for sure. But there are more threads being created to bash Federer or praise Djokovic. Basically any Lew, Spencer Gore or ABCD thread

I agree at the current moment.

ABCD · Feb 13, 2019

Towny said:
But there are more threads being created to bash Federer or praise Djokovic. Basically any Lew, Spencer Gore or ABCD thread

I disagree. TTW is so pro-Federer that a statement like "Djokovic is the GOAT" is considered to be Federer-bashing, which is not. Both Lew and Spencer Gore are excellent posters that greatly contribute to TTW. There is strong mathematical evidence to suggest that Nadal and Djokovic played more difficult field than Federer and indicating that is also not Federer bashing. Bashing is when you call a player mug, doper, cheater, abuser etc. I can't count number of times I was plainly insulted just for having a different opinion.

GabeT · Feb 13, 2019

AnOctorokForDinner said:
Just a gentle reminder of this glorious truth, no?

Bestest peak of all space-time in AO, IW, Hamburg(Madrid?), Wimbledon, Cincinnati, USO, 1st fall (yes, Madrid 06 is the GOAT performance) and YEC (at least in the modern era). And that's me being cautious regarding Canada, certainly some of the more ardent devotees would put the legendary 2004 final up there with any other.

Shame on the heathen Djokodal worshippers for not acknowledging that their idols can only claim superiority in a limited domain (MC-Rome-RG for RAFA, Mugiami and Paris for Nolé), whereas, indeed, the kingdom of the FedGod (incessant praise be to him) is bigger than those two combined, as he is the real emperor of tennis that everyone must submit to with appropriate reverence. Truly, the younger lions beating up on the old and decrepit one only serves to highlight the hollowness of their victories that could never match the ballstriking heights of GOATerer. (But it doesn't hurt Fed to struggle with Agassi as he incredibly displayed prime level on HC as late as 2004, Rosewall-like.)

Nadal's lopsided resume is naturally well-known - GOAT at three events and top notch at another five, but severely lacking at six of them (1 AO and 0 Miami titles despite a multitude of finals, only 1 final/title in Cincy and 1st fall (Madrid) + 1 final in Paris, 0 YEC titles); but, in fact, Djokovic, who created magnified impression of ultra-high-peak with routine consistency at beating mugs and chokers of the real weak era we've been witnessing for the last five years, doesn't even have a top 5 Open Era peak at any of the top 5 events! Indeed, let's see:

AO - Federer, Safin (05 Safin peak vice-GOAT except Fedr), Edberg, Agassi, Sampras, Djokovic (6th);
RG - Nadal, Borg, Kuerten, Lendl, Wilander, Federer, maybe some of Courier/Bruguera/Muster as well, so 7or below;
Wim - Federer, Sampras, McEnroe, Laver, Borg, Becker, Edberg etc. (Djokovic 8th at best, probably not in top 10);
USO - Federer, Sampras, McEnroe, Lendl, Borg, Nadal, Djokovic (7th);
YEC - Federer, Sampras, McEnroe, Borg, Lendl, Djokovic (6th).

Unbelievable!

it would be a bit strange that hypothetical peak Fed is GOAT in so many tournaments yet of the three surfaces he may end up as GOAT of only one, and of the one that is played the least.

DSH · Feb 13, 2019

vulcano federer is

.

pistolPetros · Feb 13, 2019

Lol funny that this mythically good peak Fed disappeared once his cupcake rivals retired, grew up or gave up.

uscwang · Feb 13, 2019

A sad thing about Federer is that a lot of his fans hold his own 2004-2007 level against him as if he can go nowhere but down after that. In 2007, Federer turned only 26.

pistolPetros · Feb 13, 2019

uscwang said:
A sad thing about Federer is that a lot of his fans hold his own 2004-2007 level against him as if he can go nowhere but down after that. In 2007, Federer turned only 26.

He was in god mode because he was playing mental Smurfs. Even Annacone said Fed never really needed to develope a game plan because no great playera emerged after Sampras and Agassi retired.

Federer has the highest peak ever

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