2004 Nadal vs 2017 Fed at Miami: Who Wins?

2004 Nadal vs 2017 Fed at Miami: Who Wins?

  • 2004 Nadal

    Votes: 18 37.5%
  • 2017 Fed

    Votes: 30 62.5%

  • Total voters
    48

NatF

Bionic Poster

I just disagree with his power being too much for Djokovic to handle, since I saw it differently.

Feels kinda like 2+2 for me. When Roddick starts serving and hitting like it's 2003 he won the third set and got himself into a position where he should have taken the fourth as well. What do you think changed in the match dynamic?

I actually would favor Roddick if he managed to push that match to 5th set. Djokovic at that time had problems with stamina and fitness, the longer the match the more disadvantages for him.

Djokovic has always been good in fifth sets I think? With the crowd maybe I'd favour Roddick over the less mature Djokovic.
 

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
So 2004 Nadal better than 2017 Nadal on HC??!!

Different matchup for Fed is the real question. Its not about which Nadal is better, but younger Nadal, obviously caused Fed bigger issues because he was like the energizer bunny.

Fed had never seen anyone with that defence before, and with Nadals biggest physical traits declined, his tennis skills alone aren't as good as Federers IMO.
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
Different matchup for Fed is the real question. Its not about which Nadal is better, but younger Nadal, obviously caused Fed bigger issues because he was like the energizer bunny.

Fed had never seen anyone with that defence before, and with Nadals biggest physical traits declined, his tennis skills alone aren't as good as Federers IMO.
Fair point, but 2017 Fed would really sit on Nadal’s predictable serve to hisBH and punish it. 2017 Nadal already a much better server than his 2004 self.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Feels kinda like 2+2 for me. When Roddick starts serving and hitting like it's 2003 he won the third set and got himself into a position where he should have taken the fourth as well. What do you think changed in the match dynamic?



Djokovic has always been good in fifth sets I think? With the crowd maybe I'd favour Roddick over the less mature Djokovic.

I thought he served big the entire match, at 69% for the match, and even served 71% in the second set where he got routined. I thought he picked up his ground game which made the difference and allowed him to challenge Djokovic. He also returned better in the final two sets.
 

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
Fair point, but 2017 Fed would really sit on Nadal’s predictable serve to hisBH and punish it. 2017 Nadal already a much better server than his 2004 self.

True. Nadal certainly has improved in many aspects since then.
Its difficult to say how it would go.
I certainly appreciated Feds game in many parts of 2017. He was playing great.
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Different matchup for Fed is the real question. Its not about which Nadal is better, but younger Nadal, obviously caused Fed bigger issues because he was like the energizer bunny.

Fed had never seen anyone with that defence before, and with Nadals biggest physical traits declined, his tennis skills alone aren't as good as Federers IMO.

You're talking up 2004 Nadal like he was 2005 Nadal (lulolel).
 

Sabrina

Hall of Fame
2005 Nadal was much more physical maturity than his 2004 version. The difference was very noticeable. That's why I think Nadal wouldn't win RG in 2004 even if he wasn't injured.

I'd back 2005 Nadal against 2017 Federer anydays, but 2004 Nadal would be a 50/50, maybe even a slight edge to Fed.
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
2005 Nadal was much more physical maturity than his 2004 version. The difference was very noticeable. That's why I think Nadal wouldn't win RG in 2004 even if he wasn't injured.

I'd back 2005 Nadal against 2017 Federer anydays, but 2004 Nadal would be a 50/50, maybe even a slight edge to Fed.

Why'd -you- be talking 2004 Nadal up? He didn't didn't even win anything that year bar one small title...
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
I thought he served big the entire match, at 69% for the match, and even served 71% in the second set where he got routined. I thought he picked up his ground game which made the difference and allowed him to challenge Djokovic. He also returned better in the final two sets.

How's that different to what I'm saying? :p Except maybe I'm throwing in a bit of hyperbole.
 

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
Most of those early losses off of clay were due to Federer playing stubborn and Nadal simply retrieving and feeding Federer’s backhand until it broke down and coughed up a shank or a short ball. It was the most one dimensional strategy of all time and was effective due to a one handed backhand with an old outdated racquet. I think if you give an early Federer a more stable/powerful backhand which the RF97 would provide and a better sense on how to return Nadal’s serve as he now does he would easily take care of Nadal on his favored surfaces.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Feels kinda like 2+2 for me. When Roddick starts serving and hitting like it's 2003 he won the third set and got himself into a position where he should have taken the fourth as well. What do you think changed in the match dynamic?



Djokovic has always been good in fifth sets I think? With the crowd maybe I'd favour Roddick over the less mature Djokovic.
I don't think Roddick was in particularly good shape then, at least at the level necessary to put together the type of consistent and complete form to beat a well playing Djokovic. 08 was an injury plagued year for him(as was 07). He showed that he could still do damage when he hit big in Dubai and the USO match, and of course had the win vs Federer, but not much else of note that year. He got in top shape for 09 though.
 

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
Most of those early losses off of clay were due to Federer playing stubborn and Nadal simply retrieving and feeding Federer’s backhand until it broke down and coughed up a shank or a short ball. It was the most one dimensional strategy of all time and was effective due to a one handed backhand with an old outdated racquet. I think if you give an early Federer a more stable/powerful backhand which the RF97 would provide and a better sense on how to return Nadal’s serve as he now does he would easily take care of Nadal on his favored surfaces.

Hilarious how everyone claims that suddenly , after 10 years of Nadal beating up on Federer by 2014, that if Fed had his different racket earlier in his career, he would've faired better against prime Nadal LOL

One of the stupidest excuses ive ever heard.
 

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
Hilarious how everyone claims that suddenly , after 10 years of Nadal beating up on Federer by 2014, that if Fed had his different racket earlier in his career, he would've faired better against prime Nadal LOL

One of the stupidest excuses ive ever heard.

So why is it that Federer started pounding Nadal on hardcourt when he made the switch and his backhand became more reliable? Don’t feed me this Nadal decline BS because Federer is way older than Nadal. The fact remains Nadal deployed a one dimensional strategy that worked in large part due to inferior technology on Fed’s part.
 
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mike danny

Bionic Poster
Hilarious how everyone claims that suddenly , after 10 years of Nadal beating up on Federer by 2014, that if Fed had his different racket earlier in his career, he would've faired better against prime Nadal LOL

One of the stupidest excuses ive ever heard.
I blame it on Federer never playing Nadal at Wimb or USO after AO 2009. Only met in conditions or slams favoring Nadal.
 

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
I blame it on Federer never playing Nadal at Wimb or USO after AO 2009. Only met in conditions or slams favoring Nadal.

Do you mean immediately after AO 09 ?
Cos Fed beat nadal the very next meeting after that ON CLAY, in Madrid.
Then the following year they met indoors, Fed won, but then into 2011, I don't think theres any excuses for losing in Miami so easily. Or was Fed having issues then?

Nadal was then beating Fed at Indian Wells, Cinci, WTF, and AO twice until 2015, when Fed beat a barely there Nadal in Basel.

I don't believe that those meetings I mentioned , all had Rafa the favourite.
 

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
So why is that Federer started pounding on Nadal on hardcourt when he made the switch and his backhand became more reliable? Don’t feed me this Nadal decline BS because Federer is way older than Nadal. The fact remains Nadal deployed a one dimensional strategy that worked in large part due to inferior technology on Fed’s part.

Age has nothing to do with this.
Its a well known fact that Nadal was getting success as a tennis player much younger than Fed. Plus everyone's body is different.
Federer is a genetic freak. A once in a lifetime athlete , IMO.
You wont see many other players contest slam finals into their late 30s.

So, yes, Nadals decline has been much steeper, as he relied on his athletic abilities , as much as his tennis skills, to be able to beat Federer on every surface when he was younger.

I think everyone knows that Nadal since 2014 was declining in that sense, and if you want to believe something else, then you're just a Fed fanboy.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Do you mean immediately after AO 09 ?
Cos Fed beat nadal the very next meeting after that ON CLAY, in Madrid.
Then the following year they met indoors, Fed won, but then into 2011, I don't think theres any excuses for losing in Miami so easily. Or was Fed having issues then?

Nadal was then beating Fed at Indian Wells, Cinci, WTF, and AO twice until 2015, when Fed beat a barely there Nadal in Basel.

I don't believe that those meetings I mentioned , all had Rafa the favourite.
Talking about slam meetings only, not overall. Not expecting Fed to beat Nadal everywhere LOL. If in Basel 2015, Nadal was barely there, same for Fed at IW and Cincy 2013.

My point was that, while Fed wouldn't have taken control of the match-up overall, even one slam win would have done wonders to his confidence against the Spaniard. And that kind of slam win could have only come at Wimb or USO, kinda like Nadal against Djokovic at RG post AO 2012.

RG 2011, AO 2012 and AO 2014 were all meetings favoring Nadal, but still full credit to him for winning those.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Age has nothing to do with this.
Its a well known fact that Nadal was getting success as a tennis player much younger than Fed. Plus everyone's body is different.
Federer is a genetic freak. A once in a lifetime athlete , IMO.
You wont see many other players contest slam finals into their late 30s.

So, yes, Nadals decline has been much steeper, as he relied on his athletic abilities , as much as his tennis skills, to be able to beat Federer on every surface when he was younger.

I think everyone knows that Nadal since 2014 was declining in that sense, and if you want to believe something else, then you're just a Fed fanboy.
Fed too has been declining, hence Djokovic taking control of their rivalry.
 

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
Talking about slam meetings only, not overall. Not expecting Fed to beat Nadal everywhere LOL. If in Basel 2015, Nadal was barely there, same for Fed at IW and Cincy 2013.

My point was that, while Fed wouldn't have taken control of the match-up overall, even one slam win would have done wonders to his confidence against the Spaniard. And that kind of slam win could have only come at Wimb or USO, kinda like Nadal against Djokovic at RG post AO 2012.

RG 2011, AO 2012 and AO 2014 were all meetings favoring Nadal, but still full credit to him for winning those.

I realized after I posted, that you probably meant slam meetings LOL sorry dude!

You don't feel Fed was in any shape for Nadal at either those AO meetings?
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I realized after I posted, that you probably meant slam meetings LOL sorry dude!

You don't feel Fed was in any shape for Nadal at either those AO meetings?
Well, in 2014 he wasn't, IMO. Too early to face Nadal after his horrible 2013 season.

At the 2012 AO, the surface was simply the slowest HC known to mankind. 30 year old Fed was never going to beat 25 year old Nadal on that slow as molasses HC.
 

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
Well, in 2014 he wasn't, IMO. Too early to face Nadal after his horrible 2013 season.

At the 2012 AO, the surface was simply the slowest HC known to mankind. 30 year old Fed was never going to beat 25 year old Nadal on that slow as molasses HC.

You can’t reason with Kevaninho. His judgement is skewed towards Nadal in all debates.
 

Roddickulous1

Semi-Pro
I thought he served big the entire match, at 69% for the match, and even served 71% in the second set where he got routined. I thought he picked up his ground game which made the difference and allowed him to challenge Djokovic. He also returned better in the final two sets.
There was definitely a difference in his serve. 1st serve percentage doesn't paint the full picture. In the first set, he had 0 aces and 3 doubles. In the second set, he just had 2 aces. 2 aces, 3 doubles in the first 2 sets and 13 aces, 4 doubles in the last two. That right off the bat should tell you there was some difference. There's multiple articles about the match that will tell you he was serving better in the last two sets, whether that's due to better placement or serving bigger, I cannot say as I don't remember the match in that detail.

It was a combo of bigger serving and a much more aggressive ground game that let him back into the match. In the fourth set especially, he was dictating rallies and had Novak on the defensive end. This was a pattern in some of Roddick's matches in the latter half of his career. He only became aggressive when he was down big. Some of the best tennis he ever played at the AO was in third and fourth set vs Cilic in the 2010 QF after he was down two sets.

As for the choke, Roddick served two consecutive doubles when serving for the 4th set up 30-0. He also made a terrible decision at 5 all in the tiebreak when he was dictating the rally, making Novak move side to side and went for a dropshot which he netted. Novak was playing some great defense to his credit but a dropper was a terrible decision in that situation. That said, Roddick making a bad decision or tightening up on big points was a staple in his career so not too surprising.

I probably would favor Novak in the fifth simply because I think he would have handled pressure better.
 
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