Alcaraz is actually not an ATG but a TTG

[Watch The Ball]

So we have been told that Djokovic losing the 2023 Wimbledon Final is the passing of the torch, the beginning of Alcaraz dominance who is the new ATG. I would say that Alcaraz isn't actually the new ATG but the new "Transitional-Time Great" which I call TTG. He has yet to truly dominate the current ATGs Djokovic and Nadal. If they had played the Wimbledon 2023 Final on Rod Laver Arena, I think there is no question Djoker takes the match since he has an extra gear to go to at the AO compared to Wimbledon given that the final was so close. Just like all past ATGs, Alcaraz will need to beat the current ATGs Djoker and Nadal at all the slams in dominant fashion with no more than 4 convincing sets with 3 sets preferably given the 16 year age gap. Otherwise Alcaraz won't be able to truly dominate and will end up like other TTGs like Lleyton Hewitt and Marat Safin who couldn't truly dominate and shut out their respective older ATGs of Sampras and Agassi but still were able to win many matches against them. A real ATG will completely shut out an older ATG at all the slams which Alcaraz hasn't shown at all against Djokovic and Nadal. I don't think Alcaraz has the level to completely shut out Djokovic at Australia and Nadal at Roland Garros which will prevent him from becoming an ATG.

 

[Arak]

He’s still 20.

 

[roysid]

Let's see

 

[Spencer Gore]

He's an ATG in waiting. I thought the general consensus was 6 slams is the threshold? Four to go!

 

[Watch The Ball]

He is 20 but Nadal and Novak are way over the hill so that negates his young age. The age gap is still 16 years regardless.

 

[duaneeo]

No one has called Alcaraz an ATG.

 

[Watch The Ball]

We have seen lots of people say potential ATG which is what I am referring to. A potential ATG has to shut out an older ATG on their best surface to actually send them into retirement. Federer in AO 2005 did that exactly to Agassi beat him in straights on his best surface. Agassi knew he was done winning after that.

 

[FeroBango]

He isn't for now but it's clear as a day that his ceiling is the sky itself. He'll be in the ATG conversation amongst everyone by the time he's 22.

 

[Watch The Ball]

If his ceiling is the sky he should be straight setting Djoker and Nadal. I don't see this happening at the moment.

 

[FeroBango]

If his ceiling is the sky he should be straight setting Djoker and Nadal. I don't see this happening at the moment.

Who sets these rules lmao? Djokovic is still no mug and there's no shame in actually serving out a five setter against a walking God like Nole. There was no shame in Djokovic winning it in five against Federer either. These are generational talents going at each other producing close spectacles.

He's already worthy of Hall of Fame. Watch him have his place in GOAT conversations sooner than you think.

 

[Watch The Ball]

Carlos is definitely TTG now, but ATG potential is in question because he has to send Nadal and Djokovic into retirement in order to rack up slams to be an ATG. All previous generations failed and he is the best so far but he is gonna need more to send the Djokodal titan to sleep like Federer did to Agassi when he stomped him on his best court with no five sets needed.

 

[Hawaiian grip]

The desperation in some haters is so strong they're now clinging to anything, ridiculous though it might be. You're all in for a tough ride.

 

[LaVie en Rose]

He isn't for now but it's clear as a day that his ceiling is the sky itself. He'll be in the ATG conversation amongst everyone by the time he's 22.

One never knows with future.Might end up Thiem /DelPotro like His game is incredibly physical alredy has some psychosomatic issues(many forgot he had cramps in his whole body,starting in hand in Miami Sinner pressure Masters SF shortly after winning IW.Then Rio …Better watch and enjoy(you seem to be genuine fan) than predcting this or that.

 

[Mediterranean Might]

To put him in the same category as someone like Hewitt is an insult.

Do you all even watch the matches? Eye test alone shows how obvious of an ATG talent this kid is, and that’s without even going into the statistical argument. Double digit slams is all but a guarantee

 

[Watch The Ball]

The desperation in some haters is so strong they're now clinging to anything, ridiculous though it might be. You're all in for a tough ride.

Not hating but looking at things objectively. Can Carlos straight set Novak and Nadal at AO and RG respectively yet? I don't think so.

 

[Sampras-Bruguera 1993]

Too early to say.. And Nole isn't done winning yet

 

[Watch The Ball]

To put him in the same category as someone like Hewitt is an insult.

Do you all even watch the matches? Eye test alone shows how obvious of an ATG talent this kid is, and that’s without even going into the statistical argument. Double digit slams is all but a guarantee

Not saying he plays like Hewitt lol cuz he doesn't and at least matches him in achievement so far at a young age. But looking at how Carlos can become an ATG he has to have the level to put Djokodal to bed at their best slams convincingly. Wimbledon 2023 level of carlos unfortunately was not enough

 

[Benf15harp]

Tiny is a turd. He’ll get crushed in uso by Kevin Anderson or Thiem.

 

[FeroBango]

One never knows with future.Might end up Thiem /DelPotro like His game is incredibly physical alredy has some psychosomatic issues(many forgot he had cramps in his whole body,starting in hand in Miami Sinner pressure Masters SF shortly after winning IW.Then Rio …Better watch and enjoy(you seem to be genuine fan) than predcting this or that.

You're correct. Since no one knows what the future holds in life, I'm hoping/predicting that his body will hold up and will allow him to achieve everything that his gifts should help him achieve.

I actually think he has a pretty fluid game. He's a fast-twitch athlete and speediness is inherent to his nature. His adaptability, as Nole put, should keep him good. He essentially copied the Federer style of movement and stroke mechanics to achieve grass greatness this season, ans with experience, he'll get a lot more efficient as he doesn't really need to learn to be extra offensive to help offset decline as Rafa did. He needs to work more on anticipation and it will come with time to aid his unreal athleticism. I have no doubt about this.

Fingers crossed on health as it is indeed a concern for all of us. But I'm optimistic anyway. Should health hold up, sky indeed is the limit as I've always maintained since the time I saw him play at RG 2021.

 

[Shaolin]

So we have been told that Djokovic losing the 2023 Wimbledon Final is the passing of the torch, the beginning of Alcaraz dominance who is the new ATG. I would say that Alcaraz isn't actually the new ATG but the new "Transitional-Time Great" which I call TTG. He has yet to truly dominate the current ATGs Djokovic and Nadal. If they had played the Wimbledon 2023 Final on Rod Laver Arena, I think there is no question Djoker takes the match since he has an extra gear to go to at the AO compared to Wimbledon given that the final was so close. Just like all past ATGs, Alcaraz will need to beat the current ATGs Djoker and Nadal at all the slams in dominant fashion with no more than 4 convincing sets with 3 sets preferably given the 16 year age gap. Otherwise Alcaraz won't be able to truly dominate and will end up like other TTGs like Lleyton Hewitt and Marat Safin who couldn't truly dominate and shut out their respective older ATGs of Sampras and Agassi but still were able to win many matches against them. A real ATG will completely shut out an older ATG at all the slams which Alcaraz hasn't shown at all against Djokovic and Nadal. I don't think Alcaraz has the level to completely shut out Djokovic at Australia and Nadal at Roland Garros which will prevent him from becoming an ATG.

Literally no one calls him an ATG yet. Way to make up an imaginary argument.

He will most likely be an ATG but that will take a little while.

 

[Watch The Ball]

You're correct. Since no one knows what the future holds in life, I'm hoping/predicting that his body will hold up and will allow him to achieve everything that his gifts should help him achieve.

I actually think he has a pretty fluid game. He's a fast-twitch athlete and speediness is inherent to his nature. His adaptability, as Nole put, should keep him good. He essentially copied the Federer style of movement and stroke mechanics to achieve grass greatness this season, ans with experience, he'll get a lot more efficient as he doesn't really need to learn to be extra offensive to help offset decline as Rafa did. He needs to work more on anticipation and it will come with time to aid his unreal athleticism. I have no doubt about this.

Fingers crossed on health as it is indeed a concern for all of us. But I'm optimistic anyway. Should health hold up, sky indeed is the limit as I've always maintained since the time I saw him play at RG 2021.

Carlos has the elements of all Big 3 but problem I see is he doesn't possess a greater weapon than them at the moment. This he will need to put Big 3 down permanently.

 

[helterskelter]

Which player beat an older great player at all slams in dominant fashion?

 

[Watch The Ball]

Literally no one calls him an ATG yet. Way to make up an imaginary argument.

He will most likely be an ATG but that will take a little while.

I meant potential ATG which everyone is saying, but right now he is TTG until he has level to straight set Big 2 cuz then they will retire lol.

 

[LaVie en Rose]

You're correct. Since no one knows what the future holds in life, I'm hoping/predicting that his body will hold up and will allow him to achieve everything that his gifts should help him achieve.

I actually think he has a pretty fluid game. He's a fast-twitch athlete and speediness is inherent to his nature. His adaptability, as Nole put, should keep him good. He essentially copied the Federer style of movement and stroke mechanics to achieve grass greatness this season, ans with experience, he'll get a lot more efficient as he doesn't really need to learn to be extra offensive to help offset decline as Rafa did. He needs to work more on anticipation and it will come with time to aid his unreal athleticism. I have no doubt about this.

Fingers crossed on health as it is indeed a concern for all of us. But I'm optimistic anyway. Should health hold up, sky indeed is the limit as I've always maintained since the time I saw him play at RG 2021.

Ok.I doon’t agree with all of your observatiions,but as tennis fan I certainly hope he remains injury free as every other player.

 

[Watch The Ball]

Which player beat an older great player at all slams in dominant fashion?

I mean I don't younger ATGs usually have a chance to play a dominant match against an older ATG at every slam because once the younger ATGs plays one dominant match against an older one on one of their good surfaces they know they are done like Federer vs Agassi at AO 2005. Agassi knew he was done after that match especially since he had a lot of close matches with TTGs like Safin and Hewitt. But Fed the ATG put the nail in Agassi's coffin.

 

[Kralingen]

What a ridiculous premise.

Which older ATG did Agassi dominate and put in his place exactly? 37 year old versions of Connors and McEnroe who were outside the top 25 at the time? What older ATG did Borg dominate and put in his place as well, aside from Connors at Wimbledon (his 3rd best Slam, while Connors was beating him at the USO)?

By your criterion Borg and Andre are transitional era mugs. Which is legitimately up there with the dumbest takes ever.

 

[Benf15harp]

He’ll end up in the thiem category
Basically thiem had to deal with the real big 3
So even if Tiny’s achievements are 2/3x better than thiem’s it’ll be solely due to being born at the perfect time to take advantage of the all time weakest era with aging legends

 

[Dominic & Andrey]

Lmao.

 

[Watch The Ball]

What a ridiculous premise.

Which older ATG did Agassi dominate and put in his place exactly? 37 year old versions of Connors and McEnroe who were outside the top 25 at the time? What older ATG did Borg dominate and put in his place as well, aside from Connors at Wimbledon (his 3rd best Slam, while Connors was beating him at the USO)?

By your criterion Borg and Andre are transitional era mugs. Which is legitimately up there with the dumbest takes ever.

Yes Agassi did dominate Connors and Mcenroe as he should have if he didn't he wouldn't have been able to be ATG cuz he he can't handle them how can he handle Sampras.. Borg did handle the much older ATGs before him as well until Mac came along which sent him into retirement lol. Borg was interesting case in that he quit early so he didn't get a series of complete beatdowns but it was obvious the younger ATGs were handling him better and better.

 

[Eureka]

CA is a great player with an exceptional skill set. He is currently doing very well and all else being equal, should continue to do so. But he has a long way to go to come close to the achievements of the 3 Maestros, especially ND. As he has said himself, he is not in the same conversations as ND / RN / RF. I would go further and say that at present, he is not in the same league ( on achievements) as all those that have won more than 2 GS'.

However, in terms of skills and the genius he has displayed, I will go with all those that have said, including ND, that he has a combined skill set of the 3 Maestros and is uniquely a player unlike any other.

One never knows with future.Might end up Thiem /DelPotro like His game is incredibly physical alredy has some psychosomatic issues(many forgot he had cramps in his whole body,starting in hand in Miami Sinner pressure Masters SF shortly after winning IW.Then Rio …Better watch and enjoy(you seem to be genuine fan) than predcting this or that.

Excellent comment, in that the moment is the place to be. Who knows what will happen and it is important to enjoy what we like now. However, I will add that it is natural for sports fans to speculate, and it can be really interesting to do so. I doubt if people are claiming to read the future when they do so - it is discussional.

 

[Kralingen]

Yes Agassi did dominate Connors and Mcenroe as he should have if he didn't he wouldn't have been able to be ATG cuz he he can't handle them how can he handle Sampras.. Borg did handle the much older ATGs before him as well until Mac came along which sent him into retirement lol. Borg was interesting case in that he quit early so he didn't get a series of complete beatdowns but it was obvious the younger ATGs were handling him better and better.

Agassi played Connors twice when he was 18 and 19 in matches that saw a literally 37 year old Jimmy on his last legs.

That was 3 years before he ever won a Slam by the way. And he didn't dominate Lendl, ever, I might add.

It's equivalent to saying Hurkacz dominated an older ATG by bagelling Federer in 2021, or Tiafoe dominated an older ATG by beating Nadal at USO 22

 

[Watch The Ball]

CA is a great player with an exceptional skill set. He is currently doing very well and all else being equal, should continue to do so. But he has a long way to go to come close to the achievements of the 3 Maestros, especially ND. As he has said himself, he is not in the same conversations as ND / RN / RF. I would go further and say that at present, he is not in the same league ( on achievements) as all those that have won more than 2 GS'.

However, in terms of skills and the genius he has displayed, I will go with all those that have said, including ND, that he has a combined skill set of the 3 Maestros and is uniquely a player unlike any other.


Excellent comment, in that the moment is the place to be. Who knows what will happen and it is important to enjoy what we like now. However, I will add that it is natural for sports fans to speculate, and it can be really interesting to do so. I doubt if people are claiming to read the future when they do so - it is discussional.

Carlos has a combined skillset of big 3 but problem is he doesn't have a better weapon than them which will limit him overtaking the Big 2

 

[BeatlesFan]

So we have been told that Djokovic losing the 2023 Wimbledon Final is the passing of the torch, the beginning of Alcaraz dominance who is the new ATG.

Nobody on the planet has said Carlos is a new ATG. He needs 6 slams before he's even eligible for that status.

Nobody's an ATG with 2 slams, but the "new user" already knew that.

 

[Torben]

So we have been told that Djokovic losing the 2023 Wimbledon Final is the passing of the torch, the beginning of Alcaraz dominance who is the new ATG. I would say that Alcaraz isn't actually the new ATG but the new "Transitional-Time Great" which I call TTG. He has yet to truly dominate the current ATGs Djokovic and Nadal. If they had played the Wimbledon 2023 Final on Rod Laver Arena, I think there is no question Djoker takes the match since he has an extra gear to go to at the AO compared to Wimbledon given that the final was so close. Just like all past ATGs, Alcaraz will need to beat the current ATGs Djoker and Nadal at all the slams in dominant fashion with no more than 4 convincing sets with 3 sets preferably given the 16 year age gap. Otherwise Alcaraz won't be able to truly dominate and will end up like other TTGs like Lleyton Hewitt and Marat Safin who couldn't truly dominate and shut out their respective older ATGs of Sampras and Agassi but still were able to win many matches against them. A real ATG will completely shut out an older ATG at all the slams which Alcaraz hasn't shown at all against Djokovic and Nadal. I don't think Alcaraz has the level to completely shut out Djokovic at Australia and Nadal at Roland Garros which will prevent him from becoming an ATG.

A far better term, as the all time great label is more than a little inappropriate for a 20 year old player who has been on tour for a few years.

The word all time great is a term for someone who has already finished their career or near the end.

 

[BeatlesFan]

but it was obvious the younger ATGs were handling Borg better and better.

No they weren't, you just completely invented this. Who were the younger ATG's playing Borg? There were only 2 of them, Mac and Ivan. Neither "handled" Borg. Ivan was 2-6 against him and Mac was 7-7.

Troll better, since this is a desperately pedestrian level.

 

[Watch The Ball]

Agassi played Connors twice when he was 18 and 19 in matches that saw a literally 37 year old Jimmy on his last legs.

That was 3 years before he ever won a Slam by the way. And he didn't dominate Lendl, ever, I might add.

It's equivalent to saying Hurkacz dominated an older ATG by bagelling Federer in 2021, or Tiafoe dominated an older ATG by beating Nadal at USO 22

Look I am saying that an ATG must have the level to dominate an older ATG in a slam match particularly especially one that is over 10 years plus older. Lendl was less than 10 years older than Agassi so not a complete generation above and they didn't play a lot of matches. Sampras on the other hand was 11 years younger than Lendl and did handle Lendl. Both Agassi and Sampras had the level to dominate the older ATGs 10 years older than them.

 

[Watch The Ball]

No they weren't, you just completely invented this. Who were the younger ATG's playing Borg? There were only 2 of them, Mac and Ivan. Neither "handled" Borg. Ivan was 2-6 against him and Mac was 7-7.

Troll better, since this is a desperately pedestrian level.

Like I said Borg was interesting case cause he quit early. He was losing his dominance over them when he quit though. And he also was a lot closer in age to Mac and Lendl, much less than 10 years.

 

[Watch The Ball]

Nobody on the planet has said Carlos is a new ATG. He needs 6 slams before he's even eligible for that status.

Nobody's an ATG with 2 slams, but the "new user" already knew that.

I was referring to the ATG potential people were claiming. He is a TTG with questionable ATG potential definitely.

 

[Kralingen]

No one has called Alcaraz an ATG.

I have, and I am 100% correct. He already is an ATG.

 

[Watch The Ball]

Not when he has a losing record to 17 years older Nadal..

 

[Watch The Ball]

I have, and I am 100% correct. He already is an ATG.

Not when he has a losing record to 17 years older Nadal and and a loss to 16 years older Djokovic at RG.

 

[Lleytonstation]

He's an ATG in waiting. I thought the general consensus was 6 slams is the threshold? Four to go!

3 if your Murray.

 

[Kralingen]

Not when he has a losing record to 17 years older Nadal and and a loss to 16 years older Djokovic at RG.

Only because Nadal has been hurt and ducked him since then.

Let’s say Andre injured his back in 03 when he had a winning H2H and never played Fed again. This is the same situation Carlos and Nadal are in.

By your definition, had Andre retired in 2003 and never played Fed again, this would mean Fed is a transitional great who fluked his way into 20 Slams and just got lucky. Which is obviously the stupidest take possible.

 

[Gary Duane]

Not hating but looking at things objectively. Can Carlos straight set Novak and Nadal at AO and RG respectively yet? I don't think so.

When you think something will or will not happen in the future, that's not objectivity. That's projection. Objectivity is analyzing what has already happened, not attempting to predict something they can go either way in the future. I don't understand the incredible hype around Carlos, and I also don't understand the negativity. For the time being I am content to watch what he's doing right now, which frankly seems nothing less than tremendously exciting. This could be his best year ever, or it could be the start of an amazing career.

 

[Watch The Ball]

Only because Nadal has been hurt and ducked him since then.

Let’s say Andre injured his back in 03 when he had a winning H2H and never played Fed again. This is the same situation Carlos and Nadal are in.

By your definition, had Andre retired in 2003 and never played Fed again, this would mean Fed is a transitional great who fluked his way into 20 Slams and just got lucky. Which is obviously the stupidest take possible.

It would mean that before 2003 when Agassi was playing Fed did not have ATG potential which is true. Only after Fed dominated Agassi did he become ATG. As of now Carlos has not dominated 17 years older Nadal, his ATG potential is in question. Of course he can go on to dominate the other ATG Djokovic or win more slams but based on current evidence his ATG potential is in question

 

[Watch The Ball]

When you think something will or will not happen in the future, that's not objectivity. That's projection. Objectivity is analyzing what has already happened, not attempting to predict something they can go either way in the future. I don't understand the incredible hype around Carlos, and I also don't understand the negativity. For the time being I am content to watch what he's doing right now, which frankly seems nothing less than tremendously exciting. This could be his best year ever, or it could be the start of an amazing career.

Not trying to be negative. Carlos is cool but is he ATG potential is in question. He is TTG though definitely at the moment.

 

[Shaolin]

People are calling Albot an ATG as well...needs 6 more slams to get there though.

Until then he's a TTTG (Transitional Talk-Tennis GOAT).

 

[Watch The Ball]

People are calling Albot an ATG as well...needs 6 more slams to get there though.

Until then he's a TTTG (Transitional Talk-Tennis GOAT).

TTGs got at least a slam. Once they get to 6 they can become ATGs.

 

[Mike Sams]

So we have been told that Djokovic losing the 2023 Wimbledon Final is the passing of the torch, the beginning of Alcaraz dominance who is the new ATG. I would say that Alcaraz isn't actually the new ATG but the new "Transitional-Time Great" which I call TTG. He has yet to truly dominate the current ATGs Djokovic and Nadal. If they had played the Wimbledon 2023 Final on Rod Laver Arena, I think there is no question Djoker takes the match since he has an extra gear to go to at the AO compared to Wimbledon given that the final was so close. Just like all past ATGs, Alcaraz will need to beat the current ATGs Djoker and Nadal at all the slams in dominant fashion with no more than 4 convincing sets with 3 sets preferably given the 16 year age gap. Otherwise Alcaraz won't be able to truly dominate and will end up like other TTGs like Lleyton Hewitt and Marat Safin who couldn't truly dominate and shut out their respective older ATGs of Sampras and Agassi but still were able to win many matches against them. A real ATG will completely shut out an older ATG at all the slams which Alcaraz hasn't shown at all against Djokovic and Nadal. I don't think Alcaraz has the level to completely shut out Djokovic at Australia and Nadal at Roland Garros which will prevent him from becoming an ATG.

You've never played a sport in your life. Armchair expert

 

[FeroBango]

You've never played a sport in your life. Armchair expert

Betting is a sport, no?