And the best tweenerish frame out there that won't shred your arm to pieces is...?

[Ross K]

By tweener I mean something like my APD Original... 100" head-size, lightish, designed for power/spin/baseline play.

As well as a tad more control, feel, solidness and build quality, the important aspect for me is frame stiffness, RA. I know the way frames are categorized in this regard can be imprecise or up for debate whatever, but FWIW, 67 or 68 or so, that seems to be a stiff as I like a frame.

Reports on the APD 2013 having a 74 RA scares me... The Juice 100 appeals to me, but the 72 RA does not... There are certain frames I've played in the past (TF 315, MG Extreme Pro, PDR) that all seem to be about 70 RA and I just haven't been able to tolerate the harsh vibrations etc... The new Extreme 2.0 slightly intrigues me (though memories of that older Extreme are bad)... but The Yonex 100S is kind interesting me again.

Anyhow, there seems to be a fair number of tweenerish frames out there that would probably suit me - but a lot of them are like 70 or 70+ stiffness.

So... and the best tweenerish frame out there that won't shred your arm to pieces is...?

TIA

 

[Hi I'm Ray]

Hey Ross. Didn't realize you had any adversions to stiff rackets. I thought you were fine with them since you used TB16 and that the Pro#1 issues were because of the extra stiff customized frame. Where would you rank the APD OG in terms of stiffness/harshness?

Being a racketaholic, it might be easier to know which tweeners you've already tried. Also, are you going for more power, or is feel more important?

Have you tried the Exo3 Tour, 400T, or BB London?

 

[RollTrackTake]

tougher question than I thought with some people putting certain racquets in sub-categories but...

1. BLX Pro Open
2. Warrior EXO3
3. Formula 100

 

[Bartelby]

I can't see a need for a racquet over about 68 RA.

 

[Shaochieh]

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Yonex_EZONE_Xi_98/descpageRCYONEX-YEZX98.html

 

[Ramon]

I haven't tried it yet, but the new Pro Kennex Q5 is 67 RA. They made it quite a bit stiffer than the Ki 5, and that was probably done to differentiate from the QTour. It's really looking more like a tweener on specs.

 

[Xonemains]

Donnay Formula. Best feel out of all of them. Very comfy too.

 

[smirker]

By tweener I mean something like my APD Original... 100" head-size, lightish, designed for power/spin/baseline play.

As well as a tad more control, feel, solidness and build quality, the important aspect for me is frame stiffness, RA. I know the way frames are categorized in this regard can be imprecise or up for debate whatever, but FWIW, 67 or 68 or so, that seems to be a stiff as I like a frame.

Reports on the APD 2013 having a 74 RA scares me... The Juice 100 appeals to me, but the 72 RA does not... There are certain frames I've played in the past (TF 315, MG Extreme Pro, PDR) that all seem to be about 70 RA and I just haven't been able to tolerate the harsh vibrations etc... The new Extreme 2.0 slightly intrigues me (though memories of that older Extreme are bad)... but The Yonex 100S is kind interesting me again.

Anyhow, there seems to be a fair number of tweenerish frames out there that would probably suit me - but a lot of them are like 70 or 70+ stiffness.

So... and the best tweenerish frame out there that won't shred your arm to pieces is...?

TIA

Think you have played it before but the Prince Ozone Tour gets my vote for performance and comfort combined. Was hitting with it last night and it provides just the right amount of power and tons of spin. Nice serve/volley frame too. Trialling a Yonex Xi 100 too but the jury's out on that one.

 

[ollinger]

Q5....they actually tout its medical benefits on the inner aspect of the shaft, and I understand why after using it.

 

[goherd27]

Q5....they actually tout its medical benefits on the inner aspect of the shaft, and I understand why after using it.

Are you using the 315 version? Do you have thoughts on how it compares to the Ki5?

 

[Ross K]

Hey Ross. Didn't realize you had any adversions to stiff rackets. I thought you were fine with them since you used TB16 and that the Pro#1 issues were because of the extra stiff customized frame. Where would you rank the APD OG in terms of stiffness/harshness?

Being a racketaholic, it might be easier to know which tweeners you've already tried. Also, are you going for more power, or is feel more important?

Have you tried the Exo3 Tour, 400T, or BB London?

Re RA I prefer crisp/soft but seem to do better with stiff, if you follow me, eg being I've played a lot over the years with various Babs and 6.1's and they seem to fit with my requirements. Softer frames (like the Exo 100) I find it harder to access that put away/serve power. But I wouldn't say I have an aversion to stiff rackets, just some of them; the arm-kilers like I mentioned before (TF 315, Extreme, PDR), and I suspect I'd have the same problem with some of the newer, stiffer frames out there...

Yes, that specially modded custom frame did cause me some lingering problems...

APD/O is pretty much at the edge of my limits for stiffness tolerance. I also string low, plus this frame is just a tad softer than most Babs....

Re TB I moved away from that earlier this year and started hybriding. I'm now looking at a bunch of options including gut/poly. That said, whilst it indeed lacked in feel a bit for me, it's my fav ever bar none poly for power/spin/control...

Basically, Ray, I'm considering something very much along the lines of my APD/O but with, ideally, better feel/control/solidness/build but isn't a major drop off in oomph/power - and crucially, isn't too jarring either.

 

[michael valek]

anything Kneissl. white or black star, especially.

 

[Ross K]

^^^ Thanks everyone. It's a PITA hassle demoing here in the UK, so it's great to have this feedback. Food for thought then...

1. BLX Pro Open
2. Warrior EXO3
3. Formula 100
4. Yonex's (various)
5. Pro Kennex's
6. 400T
7. BBLondon

QSN. How does the Yonnie 100S play stiffness-wise in ppl's opinions?

 

[MikeHitsHard93]

I can vouch for the pro open. It's a good racket for just about anything. It's been a great racket.

 

[Ross K]

I can vouch for the pro open. It's a good racket for just about anything. It's been a great racket.

You (or others) hit with the Juice 100? If so, just how harsh/stiff did you find it?

 

[tennismonkey]

for my sensitive arm, wrist and elbow it's been the following sticks. all five are comfy enuff that i can play full bed of poly:

1 - exo3 tour. about 11.5 ounces strung.
2 - becker londons. about 11.1 to 11.5 ounces strung.
3 - exo3 tour team. about 10.7 ounces strung.
4 - donnay x-dual black (10.7 ounces) and x-dual silver (11.3 ounces)

 

[smirker]

How about Pacific X-Fast if you can get hold of one? Tweener spec but with Fischer tech.

 

[Ross K]

How about Pacific X-Fast if you can get hold of one? Tweener spec but with Fischer tech.

Well, I really liked the X Force Pro but in truth it was way too good for me (too demanding), so, yes, good call.

 

[Power Player]

Ross I dont think any of those sticks besides the PKs will give you anything you don't have currently. The Warrior is going to be softer but id wait to see the new stuff prince rolls out since they are ditching the Oports.

 

[Ross K]

Ross I dont think any of those sticks besides the PKs will give you anything you don't have currently. The Warrior is going to be softer but id wait to see the new stuff prince rolls out since they are ditching the Oports.

Interesting, PP. Hmm...

 

[RollTrackTake]

^^^ Thanks everyone. It's a PITA hassle demoing here in the UK, so it's great to have this feedback. Food for thought then...

1. BLX Pro Open
2. Warrior EXO3
3. Formula 100
4. Yonex's (various)
5. Pro Kennex's
6. 400T
7. BBLondon

QSN. How does the Yonnie 100S play stiffness-wise in ppl's opinions?

I would have to add the Donnay Pro 1 to the list since weight wise it is in the tweener range and head is 1 sq inch less than a bb London, which I agree should be on the list. some will argue the Pro 1 is more of a players racquet or 'tweenerish' players stick though.

 

[Power Player]

Ross it is a shame you can't get PKs. They really are the sticks you want to try. Best feel, amazing comfort..etc. I'd pick PK over anything on your list just because the 7G is so good, I have to figure the 315 Q5 would be as well.

 

[McLovin]

How about Pacific X-Fast if you can get hold of one? Tweener spec but with Fischer tech.

Ross_K, I've got a demo of the X Fast this week for some of my high school girls, so I'll take a hit with it & let you know what I think. You already know my feelings on the X Force Pro, so I can at least let you know how it hits in comparison.

My impression just from holding it is it's a Pure Drive-clone, and I never liked the Pure Drive (Pure Control 'Swirly', however...), so this should be an interesting hit.

 

[rlau]

I would have to add the Donnay Pro 1 to the list since weight wise it is in the tweener range and head is 1 sq inch less than a bb London, which I agree should be on the list. some will argue the Pro 1 is more of a players racquet or 'tweenerish' players stick though.

I agree, the Donnay Pro One 97 16x19 is a great stick with tweener-like attributes: excellent power and spin, but with more comfort and control.

I'm currently playing it with the 10 gram buttcap (that's another plus Donnay has: weighed buttcaps in +5 and +10 grams to tweak the balance) and 3 grams at 12. Excellent for baseline bashing and powerful on serves.

 

[souledge]

Head Youtek IG Extreme 2.0 Pro?

 

[keithfival]

Try Donnay

I tried virtually all of the tweeners for the very same reason, to find a less stiff and better feeling APDC+. I'd say the only one that gives you similar playability features (easy fast swing, spin-based control, high margin for error, racket seems to do a lot of the work) which is significantly less stiff/harsh are the Donnays. I tried the x-dual silver and gold and both had that super-easy, spinny response, extremely soft, plus a trillion times better touch/feel. Maybe a bit less power but I think the power is there to be dialed in. That said, there was something about the very soft feel that I just didn't like but I think for many it would be a dream stick, it was really impressive. Definitely worth a spin.

Of course there are many APD types that perform similarly and are somewhat more comfortable- Pro Open, Technifibre, 4D AG500 Tour, etc. but I think they are all in the same league of stiffness and over time you still feel it even if they are more muted or solid feeling than the APD. I think these are ultimately lateral moves as far as arm health.

And there are others that are indeed more comfortable but just don't do what the APD does for you with such ease- Exo Tour 100 (not nearly as whippy), Becker (less spin, less whippy), 400T (don't get me started).

Just my findings from trying 100 tweeners to specifically replace an APDC+.

 

[BlueB]

Prince O3 White.
O3 Shark MP can do too, but has a bit more power and less plush feeling.

Now something unortodox:
Find an old POG OS 4-stripe, prefferably one that's a bit on the lighter side already, static and swing. I was able to find ones that are about 327 - 326 SW and sub 350g static. Then ditch the heavy leather grip and replace with 2 lightest overgrips. Shawe the bumper a bit if you wanted further reduction in SW. You'll end up with a 330+g, 320+ SW, ~4 HL, medium stiffness... Pretty tweenerish, isn't it? Added bennefit is that you'll still have that solid POG feel on flatter, fuller strokes, while the racquet will play like a tweener when you want.

 

[coolblue123]

Pacific XFast Pro 100
BB London's
BB NYC w/ Lead
Yonex EZone XI 100 (not bad, if you can have a slower swing and like the boxy headshape)
Had a Vantage BC30 as well. Kinda regret selling it now. Even though some folks complain of shoulder pain because it's too soft, I didn't noticed it when I had it.

I've played with all the above except for the XFast Pro (which I still can't find much research on...)

 

[smirker]

Ross it is a shame you can't get PKs. They really are the sticks you want to try. Best feel, amazing comfort..etc. I'd pick PK over anything on your list just because the 7G is so good, I have to figure the 315 Q5 would be as well.

We can get PK's here. Demoing just isn't as easy as stumping up $10 to TW. it usually involves buying the racket and paying two lots of postage to send it back if you don't like it. one site offers demos but will only take them back if in an unplayed state! How does that work?

Good shout from the previous poster on the POG. Now to find one with a lighter spec.

 

[dgoran]

Hi Ross

Dont get scared of Babolat flex numbers thanks to +- 7 tolerance you can literary "tailor" your new apd. To your liking imagine 74-7 and your back to original apd territory.
I am starting to consider Babolat qc a "feature" kind of like reverse "no tolerance" feature that fisher had lol

 

[Fed Kennedy]

By tweener I mean something like my APD Original... 100" head-size, lightish, designed for power/spin/baseline play.

As well as a tad more control, feel, solidness and build quality, the important aspect for me is frame stiffness, RA. I know the way frames are categorized in this regard can be imprecise or up for debate whatever, but FWIW, 67 or 68 or so, that seems to be a stiff as I like a frame.

Reports on the APD 2013 having a 74 RA scares me... The Juice 100 appeals to me, but the 72 RA does not... There are certain frames I've played in the past (TF 315, MG Extreme Pro, PDR) that all seem to be about 70 RA and I just haven't been able to tolerate the harsh vibrations etc... The new Extreme 2.0 slightly intrigues me (though memories of that older Extreme are bad)... but The Yonex 100S is kind interesting me again.

Anyhow, there seems to be a fair number of tweenerish frames out there that would probably suit me - but a lot of them are like 70 or 70+ stiffness.

So... and the best tweenerish frame out there that won't shred your arm to pieces is...?

TIA

Yonex ezone xi. Smooth frame with a lot of power, feels good loaded with full poly.

 

[smirker]

Yonex ezone xi. Smooth frame with a lot of power, feels good loaded with full poly.

Ah, thats where I am going wrong. Gut/poly too powerfull. Got some PS Energy on its way so think I will re-string although it pains me to cut out gut!

 

[KenC]

The PK Ki5 315 is the usual successor to most APD and Pure Drive users who develop arm problems. And when you talk to Ki5 users, once the arm problems go away they never go back to the predecessor.

Even though it has tweenerish specs, it plays more like a players frame. Power is about in the middle between the Pure Drive and the typical players frame, like say the Head Prestige MP. Good spin technique yields great spin, but the most impressive thing about the Ki5 is the level of control that can be had, even at relatively low string tensions.

I came from the opposite end of the spectrum since I used the Pure Storm Ltd. GT, so for me I get more power, maybe a tad more spin, but the control is surprisingly the same. And even if the PK is much more stiff than the PSLGT, it just feels more arm friendly for some reason. It really is a great racquet.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Forget about using RA numbers to tell you if a racquet is arm-friendly. The Volkl V1 Classic has an RA of 69 and yet is the most arm-friendly frame still on the market. It even felt softer than the newer Organix series with lower RA numbers from Volkl. OTOH, I've hears some reports of racquets with RA numbers way down in the 50s that are brutal on the arm.

If think that I'm blowing smoke up your shorts, demo the Volkl V1 Classic racquet from TW. While stiff racqets tend to produce more frame shock, it does not tell the whole story. In the end it is not the stiffness that will determine if the frame will be harsh on your arm -- it is how well the frame shock is dampened or how well it is prevented from reaching your arm.
.

 

[Ross K]

PP - Have to say I've fancied hitting with a 7G for a while - it does seem to have got great reports.

McLovin - Yes, let me know your thoughts re the X Fast.

Roll, Rob, Keith - I'll read up on my Donnays.

Blue - 03 White... another frame I like sound of and have wondered about before.

Cool - I'll read up on my BBs... BTW, you just reminded me, despite it being mega-soft, the Vantage BC30 was ultimately very harsh for me... go figure!

goran - haha!...

FK - not sure I'm up for a box beam ATM. Hmm...

Ken - right, I'm about to check the TT feedback posts on the 315.

 

[Ross K]

Forget about using RA numbers to tell you if a racquet is arm-friendly. The Volkl V1 Classic has an RA of 69 and yet is the most arm-friendly frame still on the market. It even felt softer than the newer Organix series with lower RA numbers from Volkl. OTOH, I've hears some reports of racquets with RA numbers way down in the 50s that are brutal on the arm.

If think that I'm blowing smoke up your shorts, demo the Volkl V1 Classic racquet from TW. While stiff racqets tend to produce more frame shock, it does not tell the whole story. In the end it is not the stiffness that will determine if the frame will be harsh on your arm -- it is how well the frame shock is dampened or how well it is prevented from reaching your arm.
.

Well... as I said re the Vantage BC30 above ^, that frame killed my arm and I think that was in the 50s RA. Still, even if the odd anomalies exist, how else can we get at least a general idea of racket stiffness?

 

[Fed Kennedy]

PP - Have to say I've fancied hitting with a 7G for a while - it does seem to have got great reports.

McLovin - Yes, let me know your thoughts re the X Fast.

Roll, Rob, Keith - I'll read up on my Donnays.

Blue - 03 White... another frame I like sound of and have wondered about before.

Cool - I'll read up on my BBs... BTW, you just reminded me, despite it being mega-soft, the Vantage BC30 was ultimately very harsh for me... go figure!

goran - haha!...hi

FK - not sure I'm up for a box beam ATM. Hmm...

Ken - right, I'm about to check the TT feedback posts on the 315.

Ross, not sure what you mean by box beam...the xi looks almost identical to the apd except for the iso head...the throat is aero...

 

[smirker]

Ross, not sure what you mean by box beam...the xi looks almost identical to the apd except for the iso head...the throat is aero...

Correct, the beam is not full aero like the APD but more of a hybrid of the PD/APD beam shape. Quite a thick beam, similar to PD. Also looking at the new PK Q5 rackets.

 

[JackB1]

tougher question than I thought with some people putting certain racquets in sub-categories but...

1. BLX Pro Open
2. Warrior EXO3
3. Formula 100

perfect suggestions!

especially the Formula 100

Ross, you keep ignoring the folks suggestion the Donnay F100.
Seriously, just get one. I promise you its exactly what you are
looking for.

 

[ArliHawk]

Would love to try the Formula, but wonder if Donnay will be around for a while. Would hate to love it, but not be able to get any grommets for it down the road.

 

[Xonemains]

perfect suggestions!

especially the Formula 100

Ross, you keep ignoring the folks suggestion the Donnay F100.
Seriously, just get one. I promise you its exactly what you are
looking for.

Lol, jackb1, if he does demo them with he right string set up, we both know which he will decide to go with, formula beats the original APD hands down. Just doesn't feel as solid cause of the lower flex feeling but gets the job done.

 

[Xonemains]

Would love to try the Formula, but wonder if Donnay will be around for a while. Would hate to love it, but not be able to get any grommets for it down the road.

You can a few grommet sets for safety but you'll probably switch sticks again b4 you need the second set of grommets

 

[Ramon]

Would love to try the Formula, but wonder if Donnay will be around for a while. Would hate to love it, but not be able to get any grommets for it down the road.

After a couple of years, you'll be tired of your racquet anyway and ready to switch.

 

[Johnny-Cage]

BLX Blade Team, Pronce EXO Tour, Dunlop Biomimetic 200 Lite, & K six one 95 Team

 

[JackB1]

Would love to try the Formula, but wonder if Donnay will be around for a while. Would hate to love it, but not be able to get any grommets for it down the road.

I've never had a racquet long enough to need new grommets...lol.
But I can't believe that would be a consideration anyway. The Formula 100 is a best seller and you could pick up some spare grommet sets now if u try it and really like the racquet. How long do grommets usually take to wear out anyway? I have had a few racquets for around 2 years and the grommets are still fine.

 

[KoaUka]

From my experience, I would say prince rebel 98 with some added weight.
Used to play babs but switched cause of the stiffness and soreness.
So far it's magic. There was about a three week adjustment period, but glad I stuck it out.

 

[Ross K]

Fed - sorry yes seem to have got that Yonex mixed up with something else.

Jack and X - you're making a strong case for the Formula 100... as long as it's got that put away/serve oomph... BTW, great racketaholic line here jack:

I've never had a racquet long enough to need new grommets

 

[Murray_fan1]

I really enjoyed the 400t and the Volkl Organix 8 315 and I can vouch for the IG Extreme Pro 2.0, specs are defied with this stick, very comfortable.

 

[Ross K]

Everyone,

Okay, I've done my research now, the positive comparisons/similarities to the Pro Open, PD, 100S are too eye-catching, and I can safely say the Formula 100 is a frame I'd definitely like to test out... if I can get it in the UK, that is...


Muzza,

That's funny because all 3 of the frames you've name-checked have appealed to me and I've been interested in before. If you don't mind, could you pass a few brief comments on how these all match up IYO, like most powerful, best feel, best spin, etc. Thx

 

[Ross K]

tougher question than I thought with some people putting certain racquets in sub-categories but...

1. BLX Pro Open
2. Warrior EXO3
3. Formula 100

QSNS for RollTrackTake (or others):

. Which one of the above serves with the most pop?
. Which one suits medium-swing, loopy motion etc?
. Which is the easiest to swing?

TIA