Better serves/ more overall power: Oversize vs Extended length

[TripleFault88]

4.5 rated player looking to improve serve and overall power in my game. Currently playing blade 16x19 v7 ( Alu Power 52lbs x nxt 54lbs ) which would help more: oversized players frame or extended length?

More specifically looking at weighting up the upcoming Prince phantom 107g vs Yonex EZONE 98+.

looking to improve serve and overall power without using stiff racquet.
* didn’t connect with Clash demos

 

[tennis347]

4.5 rated player looking to improve serve and overall power in my game. Currently playing blade 16x19 v7 ( Alu Power 52lbs x nxt 54lbs ) which would help more: oversized players frame or extended length?

More specifically looking at weighting up the upcoming Prince phantom 107g vs Yonex EZONE 98+.

looking to improve serve and overall power without using stiff racquet.
* didn’t connect with Clash demos

I have used the Pro Kennex 7G and the Wilson Blade 104 2015 version. Both frames are a 1/2 inch and the extended length definitely gave me a little more power, however technique is more crucial than the racquet itself. I used to play with the Blade v7 98 16 x 19 for a year but found the control to be erratic and the sweet spot to be small. I did find the Blade good for a flatter or slice but not too good for a topspin serve.

If you really like the Blade try 104 v7, definitely will give you some extra reach on the serve and easier spin. However, there will be also be trade off going an extended frame such as maneuverability and the control might not be too good.

I just switched to the Prince Phantom 100p which has a 16 x 18 pattern and is pretty user friendly on the serve and has nice plow to get some decent pop. It will also give you a really nice balance of power and control off the ground. IMO the Phantom 100p is an upgrade from the Blade and is highly recommended. A 107 is too large of a head and you will lose racquet head speed. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Tennisist]

I experienced a huge boost in power, esp. on serve, when I tried Donnay Pro One 105. Those were the most powerful serves I ever produced. That racquet was both XL and OS.

That aside, playing with it was not particularly easy.

Using an OS frame has always been a big challenge for me.
Using XL frame is totally natural. I barely notice.

The OS frames definitely raise the power to the next level -- on all shots. XL, by comparison, only raises the power on serves; everything else stays the same. Just adds a little slow-down/clumsiness effect. For me, it was easy to accommodate the XL, but not the OS.

 

[Tennisist]

I have a regular Dr98 and Dr98+. The plus version improved my serve just by a smidgen. What really improved my serve, was adding weight to the top of regular DR.

Also I do not think you will find an improvement in the serve by transitioning from Blade to Ezone. I would rate the Blade better for serving than Ezone.

Bottom line: I would try adding weight to the Blade first.

 

[TripleFault88]

I have used the Pro Kennex 7G and the Wilson Blade 104 2015 version. Both frames are a 1/2 inch and the extended length definitely gave me a little more power, however technique is more crucial than the racquet itself. I used to play with the Blade v7 98 16 x 19 for a year but found the control to be erratic and the sweet spot to be small. I did find the Blade good for a flatter or slice but not too good for a topspin serve.

If you really like the Blade try 104 v7, definitely will give you some extra reach on the serve and easier spin. However, there will be also be trade off going an extended frame such as maneuverability and the control might not be too good.

I just switched to the Prince Phantom 100p which has a 16 x 18 pattern and is pretty user friendly on the serve and has nice plow to get some decent pop. It will also give you a really nice balance of power and control off the ground. IMO the Phantom 100p is an upgrade from the Blade and is highly recommended. A 107 is too large of a head and you will lose racquet head speed. Just my 2 cents.

thank you. I’ve been eyeing the 100p also.
i do have concern about the racquet head speed of the 107, but the old school flair seems too much to pass up haha

 

[TagUrIt]

I’ve never been a fan of extended length, because tennis requires so much more than power on serves. Coming to to net with an extended length could be a nightmare for volleys. Adding some tungsten or lead tape the head of the frame will instantaneously give you more power and plow through on your serves. You don’t need a lot either, just a few grams on each side. If you do decide to do just make sure it’s distributed equally.

I equate adding tape with different types of hammers. Imagine a plastic, rubber and metal hammer. Which one will drive the nail in faster?

 

[Sardines]

Many variables to consider and generalize. Ceteris Paribus, generally I've found the oversize frames give the boost in spin generation (being more open, steeper contact angle), and if lighter, racquet head speed which results in slight boost of power, assisted by the longer strings.
Extended racquets increase swing weight and very minor increase in height of contact, for any given weight (for eg, EZ98 vs EZ98+), so there will be a noticeable boost in power, and probably a heavier ball. Funnily, I find Babolat's Plus line to be less pronounced to the standard length model. I tried the Aero and Aero Plus with the same strings, and the swing weight was only 13 pts, vs the usual 18-20 pts with Yonex. So it's not all the same.
Still physics rules, and stiffness is what gives the most power boost. I have been tinkering with an Angell TC100 27.5 70RA, specced up to my SV98+ SW,balance etc. With the same strings, I couldn't get the TC100 to match the speed of SV98+ on serve. Groundstrokes were closer in speed and spin. So it's not always about length and head size, but also stiffness. The Angell turns out to be 70RA without grommets and grip etc, and 21mm thick and 63RA, while the SV98+ is 68RA strung, and 22mm. Even with a tighter string pattern, my serves are Playsight proven to be"heavier" in both speed and spin.

 

[Dragy]

Add some mass to 12 o’clock of your current racquet. 2g will already be of effect. Counterbalance at handle with twice as much to keep maneuverability from dropping too low. Get used to swinging it with same speed you did before - power boost guaranteed.
Also experiment with dropping some tension, just couple of lbs to start with.
XL and particularly OS isn’t the ideal solution for a 4.5 player I guess. How old are you?

 

[TripleFault88]

Add some mass to 12 o’clock of your current racquet. 2g will already be of effect. Counterbalance at handle with twice as much to keep maneuverability from dropping too low. Get used to swinging it with same speed you did before - power boost guaranteed.
Also experiment with dropping some tension, just couple of lbs to start with.
XL and particularly OS isn’t the ideal solution for a 4.5 player I guess. How old are you?

I’m 32. Been playing tennis off and on most of my life. Mostly off. This has been my first year ever to play consistently throughout the year.

 

[socallefty]

You are asking about comparing two totally different racquets from the Blade you currently play with - the difference is not only the fact that one is OS and one is extended length, but they both are very different from the Blade. Why don’t you try the Blade 104 first and see how you like it?

In my case, I like the racquet to help with some easy power on serves (heavy, headlight), but give me a lot of control on ground strokes and volleys (thin-beam, not too stiff). So, every racquet I play with is a compromise between having enough power on serves and enough control for other shots.

If you like the v7 Blade, try the Gen 3 Pure Strike Tour and Pure Strike 16x19 - they both give you more power on serves, but the Tour is more headlight and is the better serving racquet.

 

[Dragy]

I’m 32. Been playing tennis off and on most of my life. Mostly off. This has been my first year ever to play consistently throughout the year.

So you are a healthy adult male with 15 more years of being strong enough to speed up a decently hefty racquet... I suggest that you consider the following:
- Nothing gives more punch than mass in the head. If you go with noticeably lower SW, with OS or XL racquet, it's unlikely you get any boost in serve speed. There're exceptions, but doesn't seem like your case.
- Headlight balance might speedup racquet head at the pivot zone around contact, so counterbalancing your Blade migt help your serve. However, not a guarantee: depending on the quality of your techniques higher overall mass may tire your shoulder more; groundstrokes may also be affected.
- Going with stiffer frame with bigger head and otherwise similar specs (SW, balance) will likely improve the pop on serve and give a bit more consistent speed range due to more forgiveness. Consider Prince Textreme Tour 100 (310, 16x18, needs slight SW buff), or Head Graphene 360+ Speed MP, Pure Strike 16x19, and other similar options. Pro Staff 97 might also be an option.
- Loosen your stringbed a bit more in the mains, high 40s is playable for the mains.

Also work on your techniques. I'm quite sure an adult male as good as 4.5 withoout shoulder injuries can develop a great serve with a 16x19 Blade in stock form, provided the stringbed is not overstiffened.

 

[landcookie]

Swing weight = power and spin.

Larger head size = less shanks, but also less control (more erratic string bed).

Extended = more SW. Same string bed consistency.

Better serves = more power + better placement.

Go extended.

 

[kabrac]

As a previous user of POG 107, POG Classic Longbody, and Diablo MP weighted to 12.2oz.....(current choice)....each have their pros and cons

POG 107...great power, spin. Could only hit spin serves with it but could absolutely rip winners and good angles.

POG Classic Longbody....good power on serve. Could hit great angles,shots on the run, really push people back. Approaching net was it only weakness, but had very good touch and stability, so guess it evens things out.

Diablo MP.... probably the best in between of the previous. Very good control, good angles, is 27.25 in. Bad thing is they don't make them anymore.

I will say I'm very tempted with those new phantom graphites. Always wanted to try a POG 107 that was a smig lighter and a couple points lower swingweight.

And the new Longbody is my chance at getting something that is pretty close to my Diablo...or the Phantom Pro100P. Prince has too many phantom choices. Maybe good or bad idk.

 

[Kalin]

Good points. One thing, though, that only @kabrac briefly mentioned - a longer racquet may or may not give you more power but it will give you access to better serving angles which, as we all know, are sometimes even more important than pure power.

Another advantage of longer racquets is that you can always choke down on a handle a bit (when volleying, for example) and it plays like a regular racquet. An OS always plays like an OS.

 

[RickySpanish]

I've never tried an oversized racquet (I stick to 95-98) but I notice a significant improvement in serving when I use my 27.5 inch racquet. I can't say if it is faster since I don't have a radar gun but my confidence hitting any serve in feels much higher.

 

[Chezbeeno]

I used the Juice Pro for a while and it was an extra half inch in length - it was fine for serving, but not a good racquet overall because it was insanely cumbersome. I got far better results using the Blade 98 and even the RF97

 

[Injured Again]

4.5 rated player looking to improve serve and overall power in my game. Currently playing blade 16x19 v7 ( Alu Power 52lbs x nxt 54lbs ) which would help more: oversized players frame or extended length?

More specifically looking at weighting up the upcoming Prince phantom 107g vs Yonex EZONE 98+.

looking to improve serve and overall power without using stiff racquet.
* didn’t connect with Clash demos

4.5 player here, age 59 in three weeks, and two previous racquets were 27.5" Babolat Overdrive 110 and 28" Blade SW104. Power off the ground is relatively the same between the two with the modifications I've made to them, but serving is much better with the SW104. Even though the Overdrive 110 is a slightly extended 27.5" length, the longer hoop places the sweetspot over an inch closer to the handle then the SW104. That extra reach gives a bit of extra speed on the serve, but more importantly gives me a higher bounce height on both first and second serves. In my experience, the extra bounce height is more difficult to handle than any extra couple of MPH.

 

[TripleFault88]

4.5 player here, age 59 in three weeks, and two previous racquets were 27.5" Babolat Overdrive 110 and 28" Blade SW104. Power off the ground is relatively the same between the two with the modifications I've made to them, but serving is much better with the SW104. Even though the Overdrive 110 is a slightly extended 27.5" length, the longer hoop places the sweetspot over an inch closer to the handle then the SW104. That extra reach gives a bit of extra speed on the serve, but more importantly gives me a higher bounce height on both first and second serves. In my experience, the extra bounce height is more difficult to handle than any extra couple of MPH.

Happy early birthday!!

 

[TripleFault88]

As a previous user of POG 107, POG Classic Longbody, and Diablo MP weighted to 12.2oz.....(current choice)....each have their pros and cons

POG 107...great power, spin. Could only hit spin serves with it but could absolutely rip winners and good angles.

POG Classic Longbody....good power on serve. Could hit great angles,shots on the run, really push people back. Approaching net was it only weakness, but had very good touch and stability, so guess it evens things out.

Diablo MP.... probably the best in between of the previous. Very good control, good angles, is 27.25 in. Bad thing is they don't make them anymore.

I will say I'm very tempted with those new phantom graphites. Always wanted to try a POG 107 that was a smig lighter and a couple points lower swingweight.

And the new Longbody is my chance at getting something that is pretty close to my Diablo...or the Phantom Pro100P. Prince has too many phantom choices. Maybe good or bad idk.

never plaid with the diablo but I’ve heard great things. The specs seem like it’d be a nice stick. The new long body may be too much for me but I think I’d like a less extended phantom. With all the other phantoms, why not just add another haha

 

[flex]

As a previous user of POG 107, POG Classic Longbody, and Diablo MP weighted to 12.2oz.....(current choice)....each have their pros and cons

POG 107...great power, spin. Could only hit spin serves with it but could absolutely rip winners and good angles.

POG Classic Longbody....good power on serve. Could hit great angles,shots on the run, really push people back. Approaching net was it only weakness, but had very good touch and stability, so guess it evens things out.

Diablo MP.... probably the best in between of the previous. Very good control, good angles, is 27.25 in. Bad thing is they don't make them anymore.

I will say I'm very tempted with those new phantom graphites. Always wanted to try a POG 107 that was a smig lighter and a couple points lower swingweight.

And the new Longbody is my chance at getting something that is pretty close to my Diablo...or the Phantom Pro100P. Prince has too many phantom choices. Maybe good or bad idk.

Curious is that the Diablo 100sq in, 16x18 pattern you are referencing? Thinking about picking one up. Is there a noticeable flex on ball contact? How is the launch angle?
Thanks

 

[golden chicken]

In addition to comments above, you could free up some power in your current setup by stringing lower or possibly switching strings.

I thought NXT Power was much more powerful than regular NXT in a full bed. It might give you some pop, though I have no experience with hybrids so I can't say for sure.

 

[Jake Speeed]

Flex,

Spin and placement are more important than power. Power for "speed" on the ball?

I could never play a racket strung at 52 or 54 lbs. for me, that's loose. How tall are you? Height has much to do with racket length.

Also, I could never play with a head light racket. I play with head heavy rackets.

But this is me.

 

[WYK]

Many pros use extended racquets for more spin and power. Going from a Blade to an OS is a big ask. Going from a Blade to an Ezone 98 + is a bit less. If the extra 1/2 inch is a bit much to get used to, you can also scalp an Ezone, or like racquet to just 1/4" extended to start. Many pros stay at 27.25. I have been using 27.25 on and off for decades. Some pros swing a 27 1/3 etc.
Extending a stick has several effects over the same stick at 27 inches- if you'll allow me to generalize from my own experience, and some of these effects are more subtle than others:
More power
More spin
More responsive stringbed
More flex for the same lay up - many extended factory racquets have a bit stiffer hoop to counteract this. If the extended and 27inch versions of a factory racquet have the same stiffness, this is likely why. It is also why some of the time you want to modify an extended racquet versus extending a standard one, or vice versa.
More swingweight/plow/stability/better twist weight as a similar weighted 27inch stick
Slightly less vibration/feedback, more dampening on some models I have used
Oftentimes a tighter stringbed or stiffer string feels less stiff
Women think it's sexy

 

[Kalin]

Extended racquet... Women think it's sexy

And I thought my reason for buying that 28.5" Thunderbolt would forever remain a secret...

 

[Jake Speeed]

Many pros use extended racquets for more spin and power. Going from a Blade to an OS is a big ask. Going from a Blade to an Ezone 98 + is a bit less. If the extra 1/2 inch is a bit much to get used to, you can also scalp an Ezone, or like racquet to just 1/4" extended to start. Many pros stay at 27.25. I have been using 27.25 on and off for decades. Some pros swing a 27 1/3 etc.
Extending a stick has several effects over the same stick at 27 inches- if you'll allow me to generalize from my own experience, and some of these effects are more subtle than others:
More power
More spin
More responsive stringbed
More flex for the same lay up - many extended factory racquets have a bit stiffer hoop to counteract this. If the extended and 27inch versions of a factory racquet have the same stiffness, this is likely why. It is also why some of the time you want to modify an extended racquet versus extending a standard one, or vice versa.
More swingweight/plow/stability/better twist weight as a similar weighted 27inch stick
Slightly less vibration/feedback, more dampening on some models I have used
Oftentimes a tighter stringbed or stiffer string feels less stiff
Women think it's sexy

Is it possible the "Extended Racket" is something else?

I'll bet no one here remembers Bancroft? Years ago when volcano's were cooling, this company produced many rackets and for quite some time. I even played them.

Anyway, some guy in R&D, there's always a guy, for whatever the reason, decide Bancroft should produce and market a longer tennis racket. And they did. It was called "The Big Inch." Simply a marketing ploy, to make money. After all, EVERY company who produces product is after the money so don't kid yourself. Will they say anything to get the money? Absolutely.

Well, I'll cut to the chase, the "Big Inch" was useless. Now if only Bancroft ran this program by Jake Speed, I could have saved them time and a good deal of lost money. So, why didn't it work?

I'm 5'6" in height, I have a friend who is 6'6". I will guarantee you our racket choices will be different or they at least should be.

What was happening with the longer racket, The Big Inch, smaller people were, by trial and error and use, actually choking up on them. Why was this happening? Feel, the racket just felt better. Larger players dealt with the inch, but the racket still went to the wayside. And it didn't take long.

Interesting note. Players, rather than tossing the racket or using it for decoration, some actually cut off an inch or so to make the racket more playable for their smaller size.

True.

 

[golden chicken]

My experience was with an oversize AND extended TT Warrior OS 107, so I can't really say that one element or the other gives more power. I will say I believe that a change in strings and tension can make an OS much more powerful than an MP, whereas .5" cannot be adjusted without altering the racket itself. I also noticed the sweet spot slightly closer to my hand when I went back to a standar racket.

 

[kabrac]

Curious is that the Diablo 100sq in, 16x18 pattern you are referencing? Thinking about picking one up. Is there a noticeable flex on ball contact? How is the launch angle?
Thanks

Yes sir it is! I will say yes to the one I have, but I bought another one about 8 hrs ago from TW before they stopped carrying them and that one was crisper. I bought a demo from a local golf/tennis shop and the finish on the black part of the racquet at the throat has some sort of dull glossy finish and it feels more flexible than the one I bought from TW. Now given the one I have had been used before, but not beat up should feel different than a new racquet. But the reason I say the one I bought from TW played crisper, not only was it a new racquet but it's finish had a flat black matte finish which I think gives more feedback.

But yes. It plays with the same feel other than the head size as a POG 107 AND POG Classic Longbody. One of my favorite strings that I used in all those racquets was 4G 16ga. Feels great and I have so much control.

I'm definitely thinking about the new phantom graphites. Only thing is, their flex is 59 and all the others I mentioned have a 63RA. I don't like too soft. The Diablo MP and others give you that feel of in between soft and crisp. Love it!

 

[TripleFault88]

Many pros use extended racquets for more spin and power. Going from a Blade to an OS is a big ask. Going from a Blade to an Ezone 98 + is a bit less. If the extra 1/2 inch is a bit much to get used to, you can also scalp an Ezone, or like racquet to just 1/4" extended to start. Many pros stay at 27.25. I have been using 27.25 on and off for decades. Some pros swing a 27 1/3 etc.
Extending a stick has several effects over the same stick at 27 inches- if you'll allow me to generalize from my own experience, and some of these effects are more subtle than others:
More power
More spin
More responsive stringbed
More flex for the same lay up - many extended factory racquets have a bit stiffer hoop to counteract this. If the extended and 27inch versions of a factory racquet have the same stiffness, this is likely why. It is also why some of the time you want to modify an extended racquet versus extending a standard one, or vice versa.
More swingweight/plow/stability/better twist weight as a similar weighted 27inch stick
Slightly less vibration/feedback, more dampening on some models I have used
Oftentimes a tighter stringbed or stiffer string feels less stiff
Women think it's sexy

Thank you for the detailed response. The final line sold me!

 

[fuzz nation]

4.5 rated player looking to improve serve and overall power in my game. Currently playing blade 16x19 v7 ( Alu Power 52lbs x nxt 54lbs ) which would help more: oversized players frame or extended length?

More specifically looking at weighting up the upcoming Prince phantom 107g vs Yonex EZONE 98+.

looking to improve serve and overall power without using stiff racquet.
* didn’t connect with Clash demos

If you like a more flexible racquet, I recommend trying a Volkl C10. I'm a 54-year-old all court player at a level close to yours. This racquet was an easy switch for me several years ago when I wanted a softer alternative to my old Wilson 6.1 Classics. The C10 has a similar weight and balance as those 6.1's, but I got a good boost in ground stroke control with the greater flex.

The pair of C10's I keep in my bag are a few years old and both have lead added to their handles to give me a more familiar balance. I string them with 16 or 17 ga. syn. gut - currently getting great performance with 17 ga. Gosen OG Sheep Micro at 55-57 lbs. These racquets are also superior for me in terms of arm comfort just as long as I don't dabble with any of the polys.

I'm chiming in here because I tried the Blade 98 a couple years ago. I picked up a pair of the 2015 models (16x19 pattern) from a fellow TT'er thinking that I needed to try something a little less hefty, but it turned out that these frames didn't fit me at all. The biggest issue was simply that I'm accustomed to playing with about a 12.5 oz. racquet with familiar balance (10-11 pts. HL). The lighter Blades coaxed me into swinging harder to compensate for their lighter layout, but that only resulted in a mild shoulder injury that haunted me for a year or so.

When I need to slug at top speed with any of the high school kids I coach or play hard hitting singles, my C10's are the easy choice. They give me what feels like unlimited power with both my strokes and my serves. Lighter options just can't give me the same power or stability that I'm used to with racquets like these.

Not giving you an iron-clad guarantee that the C10 is right for you, but I really think it's worth a look. In my experience, I've never been able to get the "oomph" I want with racquets I've sampled once they get down below 11.8-12.0 oz. As long as a heavier frame has enough head-light balance to keep it from feeling overly sluggish, I think it can be entirely manageable for a lot of us.

The Phantoms look pretty attractive - no surprise that you're trying those out. I also like the look of the ProKennex Ki Q+ Tours, but haven't sampled any of these for myself yet. WAY too many frames stashed away at home these days

 

[Kalin]

Thank you for the detailed response. The final line sold me!

A piece of advice on the mental approach, if I may- a lot of people play fine with extended racquets until they start thinking they're playing with an extended racquet and then their try to 'adjust' to the racquet with often negative results. Just use it like you'd use any other racquet.

One reason, IMO, longer racquets didn't become popular with amateurs is that every time someone bought an extended racquet and didn't like it he/she automatically assumed that it was the extended length that was the reason. As we know, there are many reasons why a certain racquet may not click with a player but, whenever an extended racquet didn't click, it was pretty much always assumed it is the length that was the culprit.