It is scary how they are going after this poor guy. Sure it may have been a pretty harsh penalty but anyone can see how you could argue that the penalties were by the rules. He’s being attacked viciously in the media and by people who don’t watch tennis and didn’t watch the match. The man made $450 for this match and doesn’t have the power structure under him or platform to defend himself. This is extremely worrisome. Hope he is ok.
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I don't think it's that bad. A lot of the articles I've read were bashing Serena and praising Ramos.
Very true. If Serena had lost without the meltdown this wouldn't be getting the traction that it is now. I'm seeing this story everywhere.Come on, no one would even discuss this if the "victim" wasn't Serena Williams.
Because when you are obscenely wealthy and incredibly famous, it is hard to make the case of a power imbalance, or that you are hard done by, especially when the other person is neither.I don't understand when people are bringing up the pay of umpires now when this could be brought up years ago. It probably has been brought up but I don't know what him being paid $450 has to do with it when other officials in other sports probably get paid lightly more or less depending on the sport.
Because when you are obscenely wealthy and incredibly famous, it is hard to make the case of a power imbalance, or that you are hard done by, especially when the other person is neither.
No, you misunderstood. I am not making the case of a power imbalance - Serena is, and others are.The two are not in a personal conflict. Ramos is the USTA's appointee so they will and have supported him. There is no power imbalance, so the class card does not work.
What if a black female umpire had made the exact same call?
Serena is almost lucky, argument-wise (even though her argument is facetious), that the umpire was indeed male and white.
We're going down a dangerous path if we assume umpires make rule-based decisions based on race or gender. What then would prevent a white player from accusing a female black umpire of discrimination or unfair treatment under the same assumption that she's black, a female, and has a chip on her shoulder?
Making the accusation of race based bias is cause for disqualification. Medvedev was disqualified on those grounds from a match in 2016.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...r-disqualified-from-us-tournament-for-saying/
Yeah, so how isn't an accusation based on misogyny also cause for punishment?
She did mention the "fight for women's rights" in her press conference, which implies an accusation of misogyny.
What if a black female umpire had made the exact same call?
Serena is almost lucky, argument-wise (even though her argument is facetious), that the umpire was indeed male and white.
We're going down a dangerous path if we assume umpires make rule-based decisions based on race or gender. What then would prevent a white player from accusing a female black umpire of discrimination or unfair treatment under the same assumption that she's black, a female, and has a chip on her shoulder?
She's not making an accusation of misogyny (without foundation IMO) so much as unconscious bias I think. IE that men and women are treated differently for doing the same thing. The different treatment depending on who's doing the accusing and who is accused is a relic of who has been discriminated against historically.
Not to steer this way off course, but what black female chair umpire? What black umpire? ...qualified to chair a Major final...aka ITF Gold Badge?
...yeah, there hasn’t been one for a while. And I can only think of one Gold Badge
What bothers me is there is no statement from ATP or from the Official Board to support him...
Serena is a megastar of tennis. Ramos is just an employee who can be replaced.
The ATP/WTA don't want to do anything to upset their stars who make them money. That's also to blame for the lack of effort to produce a proper drug testing programme.
It's all about the Wonga.
Most women’s matches last about an hour. So he is paid $450 /hr. Not badFormer umpire Richard Ings has confirmed Carlos Ramos was paid $450 for officiating the final of richest tennis tournament in the world.
That's right. Carlos Ramos, the elite tennis umpire, was paid 450 bucks while Serena received nearly $2 million. No wonder the players show them no respect.
This is more outrageous than Serena or Katrina's disgraceful behavior.
https://twitter.com/ringsau
I've read before the chair umps don't make that much. I wonder if ATP/WTA cover travel/hotel costs? I'd think they'd about have to or they wouldn't make anything.
Most women’s matches last about an hour. So he is paid $450 /hr. Not bad
Women scream a lot during tennisWomen always say men finish sooner.
Everything’s relative. I don’t think they make close to enough. The tours are huge businesses - they should be paying the chairs more; in addition to linespeople, physics, etc.If you put it like that yeah but don't forget he officiates tens of matches throughout a tournament and gets paid for every single one of them.
The top 10 umpires in the world or so make a good living. The problem is when you're not in that group.
Jokovic should donate half his prize money to Ramos.So Serena Williams now gets blamed for what the USTA pays Ramos?
Ok, but the issue is what happens on the court.
I'm not discussing discrimination in society at large or why fewer black people apply for umpiring jobs.
I'm just saying that we presuppose an umpire doesn't see race or gender (or religion), otherwise the whole thing would be compromised.
Every decision a player finds unfair would, in one way or the other (because we're all a minority in something or deviants according to some standard of normality), become attached to a social justice cause of some kind.
Making the accusation of race based bias is cause for disqualification. Medvedev was disqualified on those grounds from a match in 2016.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...r-disqualified-from-us-tournament-for-saying/
No, no, no I get it...and I agree with you.
Ramos was correct in his decisions in this match. There was blatant obvious coaching, yes every coach does it, and aside from Uncle Tony, the majority are much more clandestine in their on-court coaching....that was a good call. Also when watching the match in real-time I noticed Serena looking at her box more frequently and longer than usual...(so I suspect her claim of ignorance in this is not entirely true...once again they all do it)
The heightened emotional response to the chair that “I never!,” squeal should’ve been a clue to her (as a 23 time major champion that it’s time to collect yourself or this match will quickly get away). Alas she choose to let the emotionals snowball out of control...she could’ve at that time asked for the referee to come out (he could have rescinded that Code and the her coach still would’ve gotten the message to stop...but the phrase hindsight is 20/20 exists for a reason)...the onus on that mistake rests squarely on Serena’s shoulders.
She obliterated her racquet...wep, she knew there was a code coming...I’m sure she thought it was just going to be a warning... she became unglued further...again hindsight, she should’ve seen a light come on and recognized that it’s an oncoming train...23 major winner, and professional tennis player for 20 years...she knew better....onus again on her.
The game penalty, where the claims of gender bias extend from...she called the umpire a liar, and a theif...meaning what exactly? He can’t be trusted and he has a personal agenda against her....that is what the verbal abuse was about. If a male player said that to a chair umpire the same result would happen. Period. Now have they been profanity laced tirades hurled at chair umpires by male players? Yep. But most haven’t crossed the line to question the umpires ingegrity....their ability? Yes...their judgement? Yes....their understanding? Yes...integrity? Not without a consequence.
So the gender bias and double standard in this instance is a smokescreen..is there a double standard? Yes...was it at play in this situation? I don’t believe so.
I regret the derailing comment about Black umpires....I apologize...a separate issue for another discussion.
What if a black female umpire had made the exact same call?
Serena is almost lucky, argument-wise (even though her argument is facetious), that the umpire was indeed male and white.
We're going down a dangerous path if we assume umpires make rule-based decisions based on race or gender. What then would prevent a white player from accusing a female black umpire of discrimination or unfair treatment under the same assumption that she's black, a female, and has a chip on her shoulder?
TRUE! Serena pulls these tactics when losing at the USO because she has most of the fans rooting for her. IMO, by continuing to argue with Ramos and delay play, she was hoping that Osaka would lose focus or get rattled and lose her playing edge. She tried these tactics with Stosur and Clijsters when things were not going her way. No doubt Serena is one of the very greatest female players of all time, but she is also great at gamesmanship.Come on, no one would even discuss this if the "victim" wasn't Serena Williams.
...by continuing to argue with Ramos and delay play, she was hoping that Osaka would lose focus or get rattled and lose her playing edge. She tried these tactics with Stosur and Clijsters when things were not going her way.
Not enough to be abused by a player and several newspapers of being an incompetent bigot, then have no public support from your employer.
There is no display of skills, just an understanding of the rules. He does not train every day nor anyone comes to see him. He is doing a job for which he is getting paid $150 p/h or the same as an industrial designer who has a load of skills to display.I would say for the level of skill he displays that is actually a pretty small pay.
The men's final finished in 3 hours 15 minutes, so that makes less than $150 an hour before taxes.
Ramos should donate his $450 to NOW, and publically challenge Serena to follow his example and donate her runner-up check.Carlos Ramos paid 450 bucks
Ramos should spend $450 on a gift for the daughter!Ramos should donate his $450 to NOW, and publically challenge Serena to follow his example and donate her runner-up check.
Serena's daughter is not allowed to associate with sexists (or peasants).Ramos should spend $450 on a gift for the daughter!
What kind of witnesses is she going to be allowed to associate with then?Serena's daughter is not allowed to associate with sexists (or peasants).
So Serena Williams now gets blamed for what the USTA pays Ramos?
That's right. Carlos Ramos, the elite tennis umpire, was paid 450 bucks
I read it somewhere that he has 4 kids. I am sure at least one of them is a girl.Does Carlos Ramos have a dotter? If not, this disparity in pay scale is OK.