Could Stanimal beat prime Nadal at the FO?

[tennis_pro]

We all know how good Stanislas is when he's at his best. We've seen him beat prime Nadal and peak Djokovic in Slam finals. But how about him facing prime Nadal on clay in 2005-2014(2013) at the FO? Is he capable of doing a second Soderling on Nadal?

 

[LazyNinja19]

Lol just lol.

 

[Russeljones]

He might win a set.

 

[NextGeneration]

I think a redlining Stan would have had a shot in 2014. Nadal was not that good that year. Anytime before that I doubt it.

 

[Numero Uno]

hahaha im a nole fan,but this is funny,nobody can beat prime nadal at clay...

 

[IamGroot]

Peak Stan can beat anyone. Look how he dismantled Nadal in the AO final and on clay this year. When he is in the zone, it's very hard to beat him. He is the aggressor in the matchup so it depends on him against Rafael.

 

[Murrayfan31]

Of course. He beat Nadal at Rome. He's got a great game on clay when redlining.

 

[D.Nalby12]

2013-14 versions of Nadal were highly beatable compared to earlier but Djokovic failed to capitalize it with usual lacklustre performance in later stages of GS tournaments. Zoning Wawr definitely stands a chance against anyone on slow courts and I think he would have defeated Nadal at least once at French if he wasn't such a head case late bloomer.

 

[IamGroot]

Of course. He beat Nadal at Rome. He's got a great game on clay when redlining.

Remember Nadal making pathetic excuses for that? Every single loss he has he says stupid things afterwards. As if him trying to take Stan's AO victory away with the MTO crap wasn't bad enough.

 

[BringBackSV]

Hmmm, hahaha.

 

[Deleted member 77403]

If he is in full Stanimal mode, and I mean he is just zoned in completely, then he will fancy his chances. One thing I noticed about Stanimal, he doesn't fear anyone and hits like a sledgehammer from both sides. Brutal hitting. I still pick Nadal to win the majority of the matches, but I don't think Nadal would be unbeatable against Stanimal.

 

[IamGroot]

If he is in full Stanimal mode, and I mean he is just zoned in completely, then he will fancy his chances. One thing I noticed about Stanimal, he doesn't fear anyone and hits like a sledgehammer from both sides. Brutal hitting. I still pick Nadal to win the majority of the matches, but I don't think Nadal would be unbeatable against Stanimal.

Yeah that's what I love about Stan. These days he fears no one and goes into every match believing he can win. It's incredible.

 

[NatF]

He'd have a shot against 2006 and 2014 Nadal IMO. Most other versions of Nadal would be too much for him across 5 sets.

 

[MichaelNadal]

 

[swizzy]

nadal at his best in paris..sure, it could happen.. 10%

 

[Sentinel]

Not likely.

But considering Soderling did beat a healthy Nadal, one can't totally write off Stan. We'll never know now, will we ?

 

[TheFifthSet]

I don't like speaking in absolutes, so I'll just say that I can't imagine a scenario in which Wawrinka beats 2008 Nadal at the French Open, with both at full health.

 

[Enga]

To stay boring but truthful, it would be a good match.

 

[vanioMan]

Nobody beats Peak Nadal on clay at Roland Garros.

To all the people who even make a case for it, please check yourself. A set is all I can give him, two at most if he is facing Nadal playing worse than usual (2006/2011/2013). Maybe he'd have a shot against 2011/2014 Nadal, but it would be a very long shot.

No need to even discuss Wawrinka vs Nadal of 2007/2008/2010/2012.

 

[Chanwan]

If he is in full Stanimal mode, and I mean he is just zoned in completely, then he will fancy his chances. One thing I noticed about Stanimal, he doesn't fear anyone and hits like a sledgehammer from both sides. Brutal hitting. I still pick Nadal to win the majority of the matches, but I don't think Nadal would be unbeatable against Stanimal.

This is how I see it too. In the past five years, he would have fancied his chances in 2011 and 2014 in particular. 2013 to some degree. 2012, I doubt it. 2010, doubt it as well.

 

[Flash O'Groove]

No. I don't think he could beat peak Fed either, and many former great clay courters too. Because of match-up.

Djokovic is a great match-up for Wawrinka because Djokovic is at his best in rhythmic rallies from the baseline, that's when he is the most comfortable. The problem for Djokovic is that this situation it also the one that Wawrinka favors. Stan is at his best when he can hit several relative similar balls in a row, adjust his aim and power, and deliver very powerful shot.

Against peak Nadal, he wouldn't be in this situation because Nadal would apply his usual strategy against one-handed backhand, and it would work, because Stan wouldn't be in comfortable position to deliver his backhand as he can against Nole, and he would make too many errors. It would be the same against peak Fed, who would use all his variety to beat Stan. It is not a coincidence that many of Stan best matches in slams in recent years have been played against Djokovic: AO 2013, USO 2013, AO 2014, AO 2015, RG 2015.

RG 2013 against Nadal is a much better indication of what would happen should they play at their peak than Rome 2015, because Stan was actually playing very well in RG 2013 (he had already had is mental breakthrough against Novak at the AO), while Nadal at Rome was simply an average player.

 

[Tennis wizard]

godmode Stanimal can beat anyone ! this is fact

 

[The Green Mile]

It would be one hell of a match for sure. I doubt it. Depends on how well Rafa is playing.

 

[vanioMan]

godmode Stanimal can beat anyone ! this is fact

Peak Nadal at Roland Garros is the toughest challenge in tennis. This is a fact

 

[Prabhanjan]

Can somebody post me the detailed H2H between these two players before AO14? Thanks in advance.

 

[The Green Mile]

Can somebody post me the detailed H2H between these two players before AO14? Thanks in advance.

LOL...

2013 ATP World Tour Finals 11 Hard Rafael Nadal Stan Wawrinka 7-6(5) 7-6(6)
2013 Shanghai Masters QF Hard Rafael Nadal Stan Wawrinka 7-6(10) 6-1
2013 French Open - Roland Garros QF Clay Rafael Nadal Stan Wawrinka 6-2 6-3 6-1
2013 Madrid Masters F Clay Rafael Nadal Stan Wawrinka 6-2 6-4
2012 Monte Carlo Masters QF Clay Rafael Nadal Stan Wawrinka 7-5 6-4
2010 Shanghai Masters R32 Hard Rafael Nadal Stan Wawrinka 6-4 6-4
2010 Canadian Masters R32 Hard Rafael Nadal Stan Wawrinka 7-6(12) 6-3
2010 Rome Masters QF Clay Rafael Nadal Stan Wawrinka 6-4 6-1
2009 Miami Masters R16 Hard Rafael Nadal Stan Wawrinka 7-6(2) 7-6(4)
2007 Paris Masters R16 Hard Rafael Nadal Stan Wawrinka 6-4 6-3
2007 Stuttgart Outdoor F Clay Rafael Nadal Stan Wawrinka 6-4 7-5
2007 Australian Open R32 Hard Rafael Nadal Stan Wawrinka 6-2 6-2 6-2

 

[Deleted member 77403]

This is how I see it too. In the past five years, he would have fancied his chances in 2011 and 2014 in particular. 2013 to some degree. 2012, I doubt it. 2010, doubt it as well.

Some years you just have take your hat off to Nadal. Under those conditions, with that equipment, he was simply the best. But there are years that he looked less than invincible, and it is not beyond the realm of possibility that Stanimal - The fully God Mode engaged version of Stan - can beat Nadal in at least one of those years.

 

[Chanwan]

Can somebody post me the detailed H2H between these two players before AO14? Thanks in advance.

0-26 in sets to Rafa.
I have no doubt the best Rafa would be too much a handful for Stan at the RG. But Rafa wasn't a complete beast in each and every RG-final he won. He was just so much better than the rest and had the mental edge over Fed in particular, but also Nole (who DF MP down twice) that he didn't need to be at his very best to win.

If Stanimal showed up, he wouldn't be mentally scared or fragile at all. That's part of the definition of what it means to be a Stanimal Hence he would have his chances in any of the years, where Rafa wasn't at his superior best. Especially in those of the finals where the conditions weren't so sunny and bouncy.

Some years you just have take your hat off to Nadal. Under those conditions, with that equipment, he was simply the best. But there are years that he looked less than invincible, and it is not beyond the realm of possibility that Stanimal - The fully God Mode engaged version of Stan - can beat Nadal in at least one of those years.

Exactly

 

[The Green Mile]

Stan wasn't even half the player he was now then. He was terrible against Nadal. Once he reached his peak, he absolutely dismantled Nadal in AO. So much that Nadal faked an injury and got booed for his troubles

Last time they played Stan destroyed him. People used to fear Nadal because of his gamesmanship. He intimidated them. But once Novak destroyed peak Nadal and ignored all his ********, others did he same. Hence Nadal not doing as well results wise. He actually has to win matches with his tennis, rather than with his mind games.

Peak Stanimal would seek and destroy The Bull again.

Rafa was only a set and a break down in that AO match. Don't know why Rafa would suddenly fake an injury and also in a Grand Slam Final. Which if he would have won btw, would have completed the Double Career Slam. Only player since Laver.

I don't share the same optimism as you with this match up. Trust me, I would have loved to see Wawa defeat Rafa at RG, but Rafa of right now is a completely different version of the Rafa of RG all those years ago (Not to mention anywhere). He has declined, it's easy to see. The forehand, the speed, etc... People like or just tend to forget the past. Or just don't wanna admit it!

 

[Prabhanjan]

0-26 in sets to Rafa.
I have no doubt the best Rafa would be too much a handful for Stan at the RG. But Rafa wasn't a complete beast in each and every RG-final he won. He was just so much better than the rest and had the mental edge over Fed in particular, but also Nole (who DF MP down twice) that he didn't need to be at his very best to win.

No doubt, phully agree

If Stanimal showed up, he wouldn't be mentally scared or fragile at all. That's part of the definition of what it means to be a Stanimal Hence he would have his chances in any of the years, where Rafa wasn't at his superior best. Especially in those of the finals where the conditions weren't so sunny and bouncy.

Exactly

I think Stanimal proved that like Fed in 2002-03, he too can lose in the first round and come back to win the whole slam

 

[Deleted member 77403]

Rafa was only a set and a break down in that AO match. Don't know why Rafa would suddenly fake an injury and also in a Grand Slam Final. Which if he would have won btw, would have completed the Double Career Slam. Only player since Laver.

I don't share the same optimism as you with this match up. Trust me, I would have loved to see Wawa defeat Rafa at RG, but Rafa of right now is a completely different version of the Rafa of RG all those years ago (Not to mention anywhere). He has declined, it's easy to see. The forehand, the speed, etc... People like or just tend to forget the past. Or just don't wanna admit it!

That AO 14 is not without controversy. I think Nadal was extremely tense heading into that match, which I think lead to the problems he felt in his lower back. All that extra tension being on the edge of history probably didn't allow his muscles to relax. Add to that that Stanimal was present in the final and was ready to take the title and you have the elements for a perfect storm that would derail Nadal. I also mark that match as the official end of Nadal's prime, he was never the same after that night.

 

[Gazelle]

Might have a chance against Nadal of 2014 (and maybe 2013), but not against the earlier versions of the Spaniard.

 

[Tennisanity]

It really depends on the weather. If it's wet then even 2008 Nadal would lose in 4 set to peak Stan. But if it's dry and sunny, 2008 Nadal would likely then beat Stan, probably in 4.

 

[Levi_Ackerman]

Not likely.

But considering Soderling did beat a healthy Nadal, one can't totally write off Stan. We'll never know now, will we ?

Healthy?!

 

[Levi_Ackerman]

Peak Nadal at Roland Garros is the toughest challenge in tennis. This is a fact

@tipsa...don'tlikehim! would agree:

Especially @ 2:20 mark.

 

[vanioMan]

@tipsa...don'tlikehim! would agree:

Especially @ 2:20 mark.

So @tipsa...don'tlikehim! is actually Tipsa?

Tipsaception!

 

[The Green Mile]

@tipsa...don'tlikehim! would agree:

Especially @ 2:20 mark.

LOL, Tipsa did get a beating on Clay from Rafa at Davis Cup one year, I remember.....

 

[Levi_Ackerman]

LOL, Tipsa did get a beating on Clay from Rafa at Davis Cup one year, I remember.....

Was it Davis Cup? I went looking but all I found was this:

Still a beat-down though: 6-2, 6-2.

 

[Levi_Ackerman]

Was it Davis Cup? I went looking but all I found was this:

Still a beat-down though: 6-2, 6-2.

2012 Claydal was just awesome. He was an absolute beast. I dare say, he'd have straight-setted Djokovic had it not been for the rain.

 

[xan]

Djokovic is a great match-up for Wawrinka

Im just going to nitpick this because i dont think you are aware of their h2h which is 19/4 in favor of novak.

Now maybe in your book thats a great matchup, not in mine.

 

[Sentinel]

Healthy?!

LOL... Did he take an injury break ? No.

Did he wince in pain, or clutch his knee/groin/calf/shoulder ? No.

Was he playing on grass AFTER the FO loss? Yes.

So if there was an injury, it was incurred during grass practice not during the match.

Or do you have some evidence to the contrary ? Because, in 2009, the only thing i heard here from others was that he MUST have been injured to have lost. And the fact that he beat Soderling the next year proves that he was injured.

Since you are a reliable poster, I'd like you to tell me what I've missed. I'll be happy to change my stance.

 

[Antonio Puente]

Stan never won a set off prime Nadal. He was 0-26. So, it's a tough decision, but I'll have to go with no.

 

[IamGroot]

LOL... Did he take an injury break ? No.

Did he wince in pain, or clutch his knee/groin/calf/shoulder ? No.

Was he playing on grass AFTER the FO loss? Yes.

So if there was an injury, it was incurred during grass practice not during the match.

Or do you have some evidence to the contrary ? Because, in 2009, the only thing i heard here from others was that he MUST have been injured to have lost. And the fact that he beat Soderling the next year proves that he was injured.

Since you are a reliable poster, I'd like you to tell me what I've missed. I'll be happy to change my stance.

Don't engage with that guy, he's an absolute troll of the highest order.

Nadal was not injured against Soderling. Soderling just schooled him. End of.

 

[Flash O'Groove]

Im just going to nitpick this because i dont think you are aware of their h2h which is 19/4 in favor of novak.

Now maybe in your book thats a great matchup, not in mine.

Yes, but Djokovic has been a far, far better player than Wawrinka for the bigger part of their careers. Novak was a top player since 2007 until today. Meanwhile, Wawrinka had a few peak around N°10 but spent most of the time between lower top 20 or top 30. I expect a top 3 player to beat a top 30 player, whatever the match-up. Verdasco has huge topspin on the lefty forehand but he could never execute Nadal's game plan against Federer because he isn't at their level at all.

However, since Wawrinka has entered a trully top level, the match-up matter. Wawrinka is still inferior to Djokovic, but he is able to disturb him a lot, as seen in his 5 sets loss or victories.

 

[swordtennis]

If stan was redlining it could happen just blow nadal back 20 feet behind the baseline. But I think nadal would find a way to dig it out wear stan down.

 

[Antonio Puente]

Nadal was not injured against Soderling. Soderling just schooled him. End of.

In those years, Soderling was much more competitive vs. Nadal than Stan was. He beat Nadal twice in 2009 and took him to 4 and 5 sets at Wimbledon. Just because Soderling did it, it certainly doesn't follow that Stan, who never won a set off prime Nadal, would have.

 

[Deleted member 77403]

Stan never won a set off prime Nadal. He was 0-26. So, it's a tough decision, but I'll have to go with no.

Peak Nadal, no, he didn't. Prime Nadal, yes he did imo. That happened the last night that Nadal was in his prime.

 

[Antonio Puente]

Peak Nadal, no, he didn't. Prime Nadal, yes he did imo. That happened the last night that Nadal was in his prime.

For numerous reasons, that's open to debate.

 

[xan]

Yes, but Djokovic has been a far, far better player than Wawrinka for the bigger part of their careers. Novak was a top player since 2007 until today. Meanwhile, Wawrinka had a few peak around N°10 but spent most of the time between lower top 20 or top 30. I expect a top 3 player to beat a top 30 player, whatever the match-up. Verdasco has huge topspin on the lefty forehand but he could never execute Nadal's game plan against Federer because he isn't at their level at all.

However, since Wawrinka has entered a trully top level, the match-up matter. Wawrinka is still inferior to Djokovic, but he is able to disturb him a lot, as seen in his 5 sets loss or victories.

Everything you say is true, but i cant call that a great matchup (no matter how you spin it 19/4 is brutal). For all we know wawa might never win again vs novak, ever.
Matchup was always there, its not like suddenly someone decided to become good and matchup changed exponentially.

 

[Deleted member 77403]

For numerous reasons, that's open to debate.

Sure. Maybe Nadal's prime lasted longer than AO 2014.

I personally think that from post AO 2013, when Nadal returned, all the way to AO 2014 was the final chapter of his prime. He got three slam finals, won two of them, played six masters finals, won five of them, and played in the WTF final. That is prime tennis. After that loss, I think his prime officially ended. It was almost symbolic, that trophy ceremony.

As for his peak, when he was at the true height of his powers, I think that probably ended 2010/2011.