Djokovic's competition in 2011-2015

[RS]

Higher than baby Claydal on grass, Lolddick, Berdych and Slumpovic who was just happy to be in the final.

Bit harsh.

 

[Deleted member 748597]

Bit harsh.

Just kidding.

 

[RS]

Just kidding.

Still yet to reveal true opinions.

 

[Deleted member 777746]

2004-2007 was the strongest era of all time.

Sure, if you were a Smurf.
Probably was quite hard to compete with your fellow blue bottomed peers against someone of normal size.

 

[NoleIsBoat]

Big 4 all playing close to peak tennis means 2011 is the strongest year in open era tennis, with 2012 then 2015 not far behind

 

[RelentlessAttack]

2004-06 were obviously not as strong as 07-13 but it’s pretty funny to hear people trash them as if 2015-present weren’t just as bad.

 

[RelentlessAttack]

Big 4 all playing close to peak tennis means 2011 is the strongest year in open era tennis, with 2012 then 2015 not far behind

2007-13 is actually the strong era. Other than 2010, which is comparable to 2004-06 or 15-16, that stretch featured at least 2 ATGs prime ATGs playing at a high level at all times.

 

[metsman]

And you don’t underrate 2015 no?

not even a little bit.

 

[RS]

not even a little bit.

Good to hear.

 

[Deleted member 779124]

2015 on par with 2006? No year from 2007-2015 is on the level of 2006.

When you look at individual draws the top player was facing things change though.

Federer in 2006 had harder slam draws than Nadal in 2010 for example.

 

[NoleFam]

When you look at individual draws the top player was facing things change though.

Federer in 2006 had harder slam draws than Nadal in 2010 for example.

This is true.

 

[Third Serve]

We’ll never know given that they are here to stay.

Then why entertain the hypothetical in the first place?

 

[Third Serve]

2006 getting underrated as usual

Wasn’t too good of a year, really, but better than some other recent years indeed.

It’s 2004-2005 that get even more underrated because those were actually decent years.

 

[CYGS]

Then why entertain the hypothetical in the first place?

Agreed - hypotheticals are for cry babies.

 

[Third Serve]

Agreed - hypotheticals are for cry babies.

Not really. I’m just saying if you’re going to use one, follow through on it. How would Thiem and Medvedev be ATGs without the Big 3, indeed? Seems to me that there are only a couple of Slams available for them to pick up. Can’t discount the numerous times they lost to players other than the Big 3.

 

[CYGS]

Not really. I’m just saying if you’re going to use one, follow through on it. How would Thiem and Medvedev be ATGs without the Big 3, indeed?

Not interested.

 

[Third Serve]

Not interested.

You were not too long ago.

 

[Deleted member 779124]

Wasn’t too good of a year, really, but better than some other recent years indeed.

It’s 2004-2005 that get even more underrated because those were actually decent years.

To me 2004-2005 and 2007 were strong years. 2006 could have been worse but still a more than good enough year.

 

[D.Nalby12]

W 13 - "lost to British hero". Lol. That is nice way cover up this awful loss. No way prime Federer or Nadal would lose to that overrated hero.

 

[abmk]

Wasn’t too good of a year, really, but better than some other recent years indeed.

It’s 2004-2005 that get even more underrated because those were actually decent years.

2006 was relatively weak, but it does get under-rated. Thread comparing 2006 vs 2015 and showing they were on similar level of competition coming up some time from my side.

 

[Deleted member 779124]

2006 was relatively weak, but it does get under-rated. Thread comparing 2006 vs 2015 and showing they were on similar level of competition coming up some time from my side.

You should target another year like maybe 2010 if anything.

2015 gets so much stick anyway just like years Federer dominated.

 

[NatF]

Wasn’t too good of a year, really, but better than some other recent years indeed.

It’s 2004-2005 that get even more underrated because those were actually decent years.

Weak year but it had it's moments too.

 

[mike danny]

2006 was relatively weak, but it does get under-rated. Thread comparing 2006 vs 2015 and showing they were on similar level of competition coming up some time from my side.

I'd rather not.

 

[CYGS]

much stronger than 2003-2007 without any doubt

 

[TheNachoMan]

2011-13 was GOAT level competition. 14-15 was weaker.

 

[Deleted member 748597]

2011-13 was GOAT level competition. 14-15 was weaker.

2013 overrated again. @NatF

 

[abmk]

I'd rather not.

oh, its absolutely necessary. I've seen some absolute rubbish mega-overrating of 2015 competition wise.

 

[Third Serve]

2011-13 was GOAT level competition. 14-15 was weaker.

2014-2015 wasn’t really weak imo. Just painfully average. 2016 is where it started being outright weak.

 

[abmk]

You should target another year like maybe 2010 if anything.

2015 gets so much stick anyway just like years Federer dominated.

2010 is more readily accepted as weaker. 2015 OTOH isn't as much from what I have seen.
Many say its way better than 2006.

 

[TheNachoMan]

2013 overrated again. @NatF

Let’s give RAFA his credit. 2013 was stronk.
2010 was weak though.

 

[Deleted member 748597]

Let’s give RAFA his credit. 2013 was stronk.
2010 was weak though.

2013 competition was much tougher for Djokovic than for Nadal.

 

[TheNachoMan]

2013 competition was much tougher for Djokovic than for Nadal.

I know. USO 13 was cupcake for Rafa, and he got big help from Stan in the SF. Still though..

 

[mike danny]

oh, its absolutely necessary. I've seen some absolute rubbish mega-overrating of 2015 competition wise.

I'd rather compare 2015 with some other underrated Fed years.

 

[mike danny]

2013 competition was much tougher for Djokovic than for Nadal.

Yeah. How often does that happen?

 

[Third Serve]

2013 competition was much tougher for Djokovic than for Nadal.

Djokovic kinda beat himself up a bit in 2013 tho.

AO was an incredibly good win, regardless.

 

[RS]

oh, its absolutely necessary. I've seen some absolute rubbish mega-overrating of 2015 competition wise.

The thread will be heated and people will fire shots back at Federer but sure go ahead nothing but fun for me.

 

[Deleted member 748597]

Yeah. How often does that happen?

Idk.

 

[abmk]

I'd rather compare 2015 with some other underrated Fed years.

I already compared 2015 with 2004 and 2005 remember? (Just not in the form of threads)

2004 vs 2015 (thread containing post is gone)

2004 vs 2015

2004 AO vs 2015 AO : Safin, Federer, Agassi,Hewitt, Nalbandian, Roddick,Ferrero >> Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Berdych
2004 FO vs 2015 FO : Gaudio, Coria, Nalbandian, Kuerten, Moya, Henman, Federer somewhere b/w < and << Wawrinka, Djokovic, Murray, Tsonga, Federer,Nadal, Nishi
both with good depth atleast, final obviously clearly swings it in favour of 2015 FO

2004 Wim vs 2015 Wim: Federer, Roddick, Ancic, Hewitt, Henman, Grosjean > Djokovic, Federer, Murray, Anderson, Cilic, Gasquet

2004 Fed > 2015 Djokovic
2004 Roddick > 2015 Fed
Hewitt ~ Murray (below par 3rd set from hewitt, but played an exceptional TB to get the 2nd set)
Ancic ~ Anderson (maybe being a bit generous here)
Grosjean ~ Gasquet
Henman ~ Cilic

For Gasquet-Stan in Wim 15, you had Hewitt Moya in Wim 04.

2004 USO vs 2015 USO: Federer, Agassi, Hewitt, Henman, Roddick, Johansson >> Djokovic, Federer, Stan, Cilic, Lopez, Tsonga

2004 Fed > 2015 Djokovic
2004 Agassi > 2015 Fed
2004 Hewitt > 2015 Stan
2004 Roddick > 2015 Lopez
2004 Johansson > 2015 Cilic (thanks to Cilic injury)
2004 Henman < 2015 Tsonga (Edited: Henman played fine in the semi, but struggled in the earlier rounds more than Tsonga did clearly)

So 2 slams in 2004 considerably better than in 2015, one better in 2004 and one significantly better in 2015

2004 YEC vs 2015 YEC : Federer, Hewitt, Safin, Roddick > Djokovic, Federer, Stan, Nadal

Federer > Djokovic
Hewitt ~ Federer
Safin > Stan
Roddick ~ Nadal

--------------

early HC season minus AO : about even
IW 04 had fed, agassi, henman, roddick
IW 15 had djoko, fed, , raonic, murray

fed-agassi in 04 > djokovic-fed in 15 (individually as well)
Henman/Roddick > Raonic in IW 15 and >> 15 Murray

IW 04 somewhere b/w > and >> IW 15

Miami 04 : Roddick beat Moya in QF, Coria beat Gonzo in SF.

Miami 15 : djokovic struggled earlier, barely escaping vs dolgo, then played well in the later matches.
murray played better than in IW clearly, but still nothing great.
nothing else noteworthy

Miami 15 somewhere b/w > and >> Miami 04

Clay season minus RG: 15 better

Monte Carlo 2004 < Monte Carlo 2015: Coria, Safin, Nalby, Moya in 2004 < Djokovic, Berdych, nadal, Ferrer
Rome 2004 << Rome 2015: Moya, nalby, Costa in 2004 << Djokovic,Federer, Stan, Ferrer (crap final from nalby)
Hamburg 2004 >> Madrid 2015
Federer came through a draw of Gaudio, Gonzalez, Moya, Hewitt to get to the final. Final was a good one unlike 15 where Nadal was cra*p.

North America HC season minus USO : 2004 ~ 2015

Canada 04 > Canada 15
djokovic barely escaped vs gulbis, got beat by murray playing well
Roddick came through to the final easily and Fed beat him convincingly.
Fed had 2 Tbs vs Mirnyi (big server) and an entertaining shotmaking match vs arazi in 1st round, lost 1st set vs Johansson

fed of canada 04 > murray of canada 15
roddick of canada 04 ~ djoko of canada 04

Cincy 05 < Cincy 15
Agassi of Cincy 04 < fed of cincy 15
roddick, hewitt in 05; djokovic murray in 05

Indoor season minus YEC : about even

madrid 04 had safin in peak form only slightly lesser than djokovic in shanghai 15
also had agassi clearly better than anyone Djokovic faced in shanghai 15.

paris 04 safin ~ paris 15 djokovic
hewitt in paris 04 ~ Stan in Paris 15

So to sum it up , IMO :

2004 AO >> 2015 AO
2004 RG b/w < and << 2015 RG
2004 Wim > 2015 Wim
2004 USO >> 2015 USO

2004 YEC > 2015 YEC

early HC season minus AO : 2004 ~ 2015
clay season minus RG : 2004 < 2015
North America HC season minus USO : 2004 ~ 2015
Indoor season minus YEC : 2004 ~ 2015


2004 significantly better in slams
2004 better at the YEC
the non major events in 15 is a little better than 2004 (thanks to clay season)

2005 vs 2015 :

how are they even close to being even ? I can understand disageeing with much better and saying just better, but close to even, I don't see it at all.

2005 AO vs 2015 AO : Safin, Federer, Agassi,Hewitt, Nalbandian, Roddick,>> Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Berdych
2005 FO vs 2015 FO : Nadal, Federer, Puerta, Davydenko, Coria ,Canas, Robredo, Ferrer, Gaudio > Wawrinka, Djokovic, Murray, Tsonga, Federer,Nadal, Nishi

2005 Wim vs 2015 Wim : about the same (let me go a bit in detail for this)

Federer 2005 Wim > Djokovic 2015 Wim
Hewitt 2005 Wim ~ Federer 2015 Wim (including the final, maybe a slight edge to 15 Wim fed, but its debatable, longer it goes, more in favour of hewitt)
Roddick 2005 Wim < Murray 2015 Wim
Johansson 2005 Wim ~ Anderson 2015 Wim
Gonzalez 2005 Wim ~ Gasquet 2015 Wim

about even

2005 USO vs 2015 USO : Federer, Agassi, Hewitt, Nalbandian,Blake >> Djokovic, Federer, Wawrinka

YEC : 2005 was affected quite a bit by injuries, but final made up for it. 2005 YEC < 2015 YEC

early HC season minus AO : 2005 > 2015
IW 05 had fed, hewitt, roddick, canas
IW 15 had djoko, fed, , raonic, murray
about the same. Murray was actually worse than canas was.

Miami 05 : federer struggled a little bit earlier, then played really well in QF+SF (henman, agassi)
nadal actually cruised through to final except for ljubicic match.
then that epic final

Miami 15 : djokovic struggled earlier, barely escaping vs dolgo, then played well in the later matches.
murray played better than in IW clearly, but still nothing great.
nothing else noteworthy

I'd say Miami 05 is somewhere in b/w > and >> Miami 15

clay season minus RG : 2005 > 2015
2005 had nadal winning rome+monte carlo. epic 5-setter vs coria at rome. good semi vs gasquet at monte carlo (gasquet upset fed there in an excellent performance)
decent final vs coria
federer dominated hamburg

2015 had djokovic coming through tough draw in rome; fed in final, wawr in semi
madrid wasn't really good in quality. murray played really but, but nadal was poor
monte carlo had a good final, but nothing much else with djokovic playing well in tourney


North America HC season minus USO : 2005 < 2015

Canada 05 < Canada 15
djokovic barely escaped vs gulbis, got beat by murray playing well
nadal beat agassi in 3-setter in 2005 final
no fed in 2005 or in 2015

Cincy 05 < Cincy 15
fed of Cincy 05 < fed of cincy 15
roddick, hewitt in 05; djokovic murray in 05

Indoor season minus YEC : 2005 << 2015
djokovic was on a tear in 2015 indoor season. even players playing some okayish/decent tennis were dismissed - nadal, murray etc
fed-nadal final in basel
no fed in 05 (injured, so out of madrid+paris)
nadal-ljubicic 5-setter in madrid 05 is not enough to cover up for it+paris being depleted of even more players

So to sum it up , IMO :

2005 AO >> 2015 AO
2005 RG > 2015 RG
2005 Wim ~ 2015 Wim
2005 USO >> 2015 USO

2005 YEC < 2015 YEC

early HC season minus AO : 2005 > 2015
clay season minus RG : 2005 > 2015
North America HC season minus USO : 2005 < 2015
Indoor season minus YEC : 2005 << 2015


the non major events in 15 is a little better than 2005 (thanks to indoor season.)
But the difference in slams in 2005 is just too big.

so yeah, I stand by 2005 >> 2015.

 

[abmk]

The thread will be heated and people will fire shots back at Federer but sure go ahead nothing but fun for me.

I say "Bring it on"

 

[Deleted member 748597]

The thread will be heated and people will fire shots back at Federer but sure go ahead nothing but fun for me.

Make some popcorn while you're at it.

 

[RS]

I say "Bring it on"

Gonna make this a thing were you do different years as a thread on a fairly consistent basis if the thread goes sweet?

 

[PETEhammer]

Nole's Main Rival: A 20 time slam winner with 200+ weeks at #1
Nole's Pigeons: A 20 time slam winner with 300+ weeks at #1 and a 3 time slam winner and 11 time finalist with 40+ weeks at #1
Fed's Main Rival at slams during winningest years: A 1 time slam winner with 4 finals and 13 weeks at #1

 

[PETEhammer]

Without Djokodal, Medvedev would be on 1-2 slams tops, Thiem maybe 4-5 slams. Does that qualify as ATGs for you?

4 slams is ATG territory, everyone knows that Courier is the gatekeeper/guardian of the ATG threshold.

 

[RS]

4 slams is ATG territory, everyone knows that Courier is the gatekeeper/guardian of the ATG threshold.

Most people say 6 slams and up.

 

[PETEhammer]

Most people say 6 slams and up.

They're wrong.

 

[Third Serve]

4 slams is ATG territory, everyone knows that Courier is the gatekeeper/guardian of the ATG threshold.

I see more people with the opinion that 6 Slams is the bar.

 

[RS]

They're wrong.

It is subjective but i agree with it.

 

[PETEhammer]

I see more people with the opinion that 6 Slams is the bar.

I see it as a debate with lots of opinions, but Courier stands above the rest of the 3 slammers in that he was a multi-slammer and consistent favorite at 2 slams, dark horse at the other 2, and he had his own little era of dominance prior to the emergence of a GOAT contender, Petros and higher ranking ATG Andre.

 

[Third Serve]

I see it as a debate with lots of opinions, but Courier stands above the rest of the 3 slammers in that he was a multi-slammer and consistent favorite at 2 slams, dark horse at the other 2, and he had his own little era of dominance prior to the emergence of a GOAT contender, Petros and higher ranking ATG Andre.

Would put Murray slightly above Courier honestly, but they’re in roughly the same tier. Muzz’s title haul and incredible consistency at the big events has to stand out here.

 

[Towny]

4 slams is ATG territory, everyone knows that Courier is the gatekeeper/guardian of the ATG threshold.

Consensus on this board would be 6 slams minimum. Some would add Murray to that, some might have the bar at 7 slams or higher. I think you would be the first I've seen who would include Courier and not Murray as an ATG