Defining a "Stringer"

Masamusou

Semi-Pro
This probably belongs in the rant section, and if so I’m sure someone will move it there. One thing that has been annoying me is how easily people throw around the phrase, “I’m a stringer.” Buying a stringing “device” does not make one a “stringer”, it simply means they own a device that can be used to install a new set of strings into a racquet. Perhaps I should preface my argument with a few definitions:

Person Capable of Stringing: This is a person who knows HOW to install the strings, but nothing more. They know the motions, but do not understand the concept of consistency; much less how to actually actually apply it. This person will be able to string 3 racquets for a customer (same frame, string, tension, etc.) but the results will not be similar.

Stringer: This is a person that not only knows HOW to install the strings, but also can effectively cover all the necessary basis of racquet service. This includes being able to give a customer consistent results. A true stringer will be able to string 3 identical racquets at the same tension with the same strings and the customer will not be able to tell a difference between the three (not counting for manufacturing tolerances such as flex which we have no control over).

You will see a lot of people complain on these boards about how bad the stringing is at the “big box” stores, and for a majority they are probably right. For instance there are three stores belonging to a known Golf (& Tennis) chain in the Denver area. One location (which is the largest) has two people available to do stringing, who are both self-taught and from what I have seen are incapable of producing consistent string jobs. Another location only has one person available, who also appears to be self-taught and will install the pattern incorrectly (for instance, one-piece, crosses throat up on a LM 4), and cannot produce consistent string jobs. The last store has the two best stringers in the group available, one being an MRT, and one with years of experience from a major tennis retailer in California. Not all “big box” stores are the same. Some will have very good stringers, and some will have very bad people theoretically capable of stringing. This will be seen at almost any place. I’ve seen a local place that will very boldly advertise its “MRTs” but a random lower employee will be the one doing the actual stringing (and doing it very wrong in addition).

Of course my main rant still focuses on the “stringer” versus “person capable of stringing” argument. I have noticed that a large percentage of people that buy a $200 device like an SP Swing immediately think that after three or four jobs they are not only more consistent, but flat out better than people that have been doing it for years. Perhaps some of these people have had very bad stringers in the past and their jobs feel more “consistent” because they are “less inconsistent”. For reference, a deviation of +/- 5 is still not precise, but it’s “more precise” than +/- 10. I don’t intend this as an actual numerical example, simply a comparative basis by what I mean when I say “less inconsistent”. As most people will say, the first job takes awhile (some up over 2 hours), and yet the ones after that quickly dropped down in time. Let’s be honest, there is VERY LITTLE chance that a job done in an hour and a half will feel consistent with a job done in 45 minutes. I’m not going to say it’s completely impossible, but I very seriously doubt the legitimacy of any such claims.

A number of people on this board make a big deal about speed when they really shouldn’t. CONSISTENCY IS KEY! Personally, I will spend between 16 and 22 minutes of “stringing time” depending on the frame/string. This is going at a very steady pace with almost no effort on my part. If necessary, I can crank out sticks in less time, but most of the time, it’s not needed. My main goal is to hand a customer back a frame that feels exactly like it is supposed to. When I string for someone for the first time, I take a baseline on the resulting job and log it into my spreadsheet. After that, unless the customer changes tension or string or frame, I will make sure that the string jobs after that first one line up with the baseline reading. This is the consistency I’m talking about. I take it to a bit of an extreme, but I’m very consistent with everything I do. I always mount the frame the same way (buttcap logo up), I always use the same side for the short side if one-piece, etc. I take a lot of pride in the work that I do and my customers appreciate that. Sure, there are other home stringers around that charge less than me, but a couple extra bucks for the quality of service I provide is a no-brainer to my customers. My customers like the fact that they can come to me in a jam and I can get them consistent frames back in a short amount of time, and they are willing to pay extra for that premium.

Last year I was hitting with a friend of mine, and he popped a set of strings, and I popped two sets of strings. A guy on a neighboring court walked over and pronounced that he was a “stringer” and that he would string our frames for $10 apiece if we provided the strings. After looking over to the person I was hitting with, I began laughing. This guy had just purchased a Gamma X-2 two weeks before and had strung a total of two frames. This is of course an extreme example of what I’m talking about, but the point remains that in my mind, a “stringer” is a completely different entity than a “person capable of stringing”.
 

goober

Legend
I am not sure what your upset about. Do you call yourself a tennis player? Well I bet some professional players would laugh at the notion and label you as a noob - uh maybe someone that is able to hit the ball but nothing more.

There are a lot of people who call themselves tennis coaches when all they do is feed balls with no instruction. There are all kinds of unqualified people giving advice on the tips section. Not a big deal you have to sift through posts like any other forum.

Why should it be different for stringing? You can differentiate yourself from the rest of the stringers by getting certification MRT or CS. But ultimately who cares what people call themselves? If you are good your reputation will follow. It's funny how you complain but the really respected stringers on this forum just let their knowledge and experience speak for itself.
 

SFrazeur

Legend
This does belongs in the stringing section.

I have strung five times with the Gamma X-2 I bought last week; I am not a stringer, nor am I a person capable of stringing, I am a person capable of stringing my racquets. That is what I am, that is what most here are.
 

SFrazeur

Legend
When a professional sees other non professionals posing under terms that might be associated with their profession trade they are protective of it.

I have seen other "instructors" that have been working for longer than I have been alive that are a joke as professionals. I feel very much the same as Masamusou does, but with my own trade.
 

Nuke

Hall of Fame
Person Capable of Stringing: This is a person who knows HOW to install the strings, but nothing more. They know the motions, but do not understand the concept of consistency; much less how to actually actually apply it. This person will be able to string 3 racquets for a customer (same frame, string, tension, etc.) but the results will not be similar.

Stringer: This is a person that not only knows HOW to install the strings, but also can effectively cover all the necessary basis of racquet service.

OK, I'm not a racquet technician. I string my own racquets, but I don't call myself a stringer. For sure, I'm no pro.

But you're generalizing when you say a person "capable of stringing" does not understand how to perform the job consistently. No, I can't crank out a job in 16 minutes, but I'm not trying to. In fact, I can make a job more consistent by letting the string stretch under tension for a little longer before clamping it off. Perhaps if you watched me do it, you would call me a poor stringer because I take an hour instead of 16 minutes like you.
 
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raiden031

Legend
Sorry, but in my eyes, a stringer is someone who strings tennis racquets, regardless of how often they do it, who they do it for, or the quality in which they do it.

I have strung my own racquets maybe 12 times and will continue to do so as long as I am playing tennis and have the time to do it. I am a stringer, but I'm not a skilled or certified stringer, because I'm not confident that paying customers would necessarily be happy with my string jobs.

Bottom line is, I'm a stringer whether you like it or not.

I think of stringer to be the same as the word 'guitarist'. Someone who plays guitar is a guitarist, even if they suck at playing guitar.

I hate this arrogant attitude people have that in order to be eligible for a noun to describe an activity you do (stringer, guitarist, pianist, etc.), you have to be good. That is absurd.
 

Nuke

Hall of Fame
Yeah, raiden, it's like saying anyone who's not at least a 5.0 is a "person who plays tennis" instead of a "tennis player." It's elitist. But I understand where Masamusou's coming from. Might make it more palatable if he catagorized it as "pro stringer" and "amateur stringer." But I'd still argue that a careful amateur could produce a consistent job.
 

raiden031

Legend
Yeah, raiden, it's like saying anyone who's not at least a 5.0 is a "person who plays tennis" instead of a "tennis player." It's elitist. But I understand where Masamusou's coming from. Might make it more palatable if he catagorized it as "pro stringer" and "amateur stringer." But I'd still argue that a careful amateur could produce a consistent job.

If you are offering stringing services to someone, I agree that you should be specific as to your skill level, aka. experienced stringer, pro stringer, certified stringer, etc. in order to avoid misleading someone, but I don't agree with his complaint of the use of the word 'stringer'.

Just like if I were trying to join a band, I would say, I am a novice or intermediate guitarist, rather than saying I am an accomplished guitarist.
 

diredesire

Adjunct Moderator
We're starting to argue semantics here. I think Mas's point is very clear, and I agree for the most part. I see a lot of bad advice flung around here because of the "he said she said" sort of arguments. If you really want to get nit-picky, you can equate his "person capable of stringing" with a bad stringer, and a "stringer" with a good stringer.
 

lethalfang

Professional
When a professional sees other non professionals posing under terms that might be associated with their profession trade they are protective of it.

I have seen other "instructors" that have been working for longer than I have been alive that are a joke as professionals. I feel very much the same as Masamusou does, but with my own trade.

There are tennis players. The very best among them are the professional tennis players.
There are stringers. Among those, there are professional stringers.
If I teach my 10-year old cousin to play tennis, I would act as her coach. Of course, there are professional tennis coaches.
What's the big deal?
 

Nuke

Hall of Fame
The big deal is that the OP asserts that if you are not on the pro (stringer) level, then you can't understand how to string a racquet consistently. It's like saying if you're not an ATP pro, then you can't know how to hit a serve. It's a bit insulting to us "capable of stringing" folks.
 

Masamusou

Semi-Pro
Well, I'm really not sure how everyone seems to have misinterpretted the meaning of my original post. Perhaps I just define things differently than most people. In no way am I saying that you HAVE to be an MRT to be considered good. I'm simply stating that there are some people (probably not so much on this board as in other places) that simply don't care about the work they do. It's something they have to do for wherever they work or something. All I'm advocating is taking some pride in one's work. Trust me, just take a little pride in what you do, eventually it will all come. I strung at least 50 frames of my own before I touched another person's frame. That's just me, other people obviously feel comfortable quicker. That's a personal thing. I'm not sure how Nuke is getting so offended by my original post. In no way am I saying that you have to be a CS or MRT in order to understand and produce consistent jobs. It's all up to the individual whether they want to learn how to do it. The fact is that some people are happy just to put the frame on the machine, get strings in there and get it over with. They don't really care if this job feels different compared to the last. Again, I'm not quite sure how my original intention got so misinterpretted, but perhaps it's just how I think of things is different than most people.

As far as the speed goes. Again, that has nothing to do with it. It's all about consistency. It just happens that I've been doing this long enough that there isn't any "wasted motion". I strung two frames for a guy last night, doesn't matter how long they each took. What matters is that after stringing, they had identical stringbed readings. The guy doesn't care how long it takes me, he cares that his racquets come off feeling the same. Consistency is all I'm advocating. Like DD said, perhaps I should have defined a few more terms, or changed the semantics up a bit. If one is working towards consistency, then awesome, it's a learning process and it takes time. I'd like to think that all stringers on some level are equal but at different stages along the learning curve, but the truth is that some people just don't care enough. There is no one out there that is incapable of learning to be a good stringer, it's just a matter of whether they want to or not.
 
Let me add some perspective. There are indeed varying levels of stringing experience. Some "stringers" are more accomplished than others. Agreed that speed and consistency can be different issues, but not always mutually exclusive of one another. A very fast stringer can also be spot-on consistent. I believe anyone who strings is a "stringer" and can identify him or herself as such. The distinctions really come when "stringers" begin performing services for others.

Those with professional level experience and credentials are at the top of the profession. They know they are consistent because they have tools, like the Babolat RDC or an ERT to measure consistency. They often have a database with goo-gobs of data stored on each customer so they can measure consistency from string job to string job. When a racquet is strung by someone at this level it will be consistent time and time again. It will be verified as such with a diagnostic device. The stringing equipment is first-rate and kept calibrated and clean.

From here there is a dip. i.e. Stringers with hobby level equipment. This equipment makes achieving consistent results more difficult. Not impossible, but more difficult. Then there are stringers who attempt to measure consistency with a $20.00 stringmeter. They do get some bonus points for effort, but the stringmeter is not the type of diagnostic equipment that can be trusted. Finally there is the stringer who has limited experience and no way of measuring the consistency of his/her results other than a "ping" test. It is not possible to know if the consistency is there, but if I were a betting person, I would bet against it.

So there it is. Anyone can be a "Stringer" but only a few are accomplished and professional. The professionals will be easy to spot as they will be infinitely more detailed than an average everyday stringer and will likely charge an appropriate rate for their level of service. A rate much higher than a guy with a stringing machine in his basement that says "give me a Hamilton and a pack of strings and I'll string your racquet for you." Ultimately the buyer will choose the level of quality he/she wants from their string job.
 
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TonyB

Hall of Fame
Bottom line: Who cares?


If you can string your own racquets and you enjoy it, then bully for you.

Who the hell cares what you call yourself?

To the OP: I'm calling myself a stringer!! Nah nah nah nah nah.
 

nickb

Banned
Why does it matter who's a better stringer etc etc. If you pride yourself on doing consistent stringjobs good for you and im sure the home stringers are happy with their stringjobs and wouldnt notice a difference if you strung for them. I taught myself to string and work at a big tennis club in England, I use the best babalat machine money can buy, i just string the rackets....i just so happens ive never had a complaint...even when ive strung 5 of the same frame for a pro. I just put the string in the racket, i dont care which way up the stick is etc etc but im a STRINGER.
 

diredesire

Adjunct Moderator
like i said before, you guys are getting carried away and taking Mas's post the wrong way. If you've been around stringing for a long time, you'll have a good perspective on what he says. He also argues that it's not whether or not you are happy with your own work, but also if others are happy, and would remain happy given a long period of time with you. The rapport you develop with a customer is valuable no matter which way you slice it.

to TonyB: He's not talking specifically about you. If you stick with your own frames, that's one thing. If you advertise your services to another, you should at least have some working knowledge of your craft. I don't think you should be offended if you're happy stringing your own frames and saving money.

nickb: Obviously it matters if someone is "better" (which in my eyes, as well, is measured by consistency). You make the same argument, there is a difference between home stringers and others. You guys, as far as I can tell are saying the same things, in two different ways. If a customer knows what they want, that's easy enough. You can install the string per instructions (xx tension). I agree which way up a racquet is makes little difference, but in the same respect, it's not a bad idea. Just because you don't get complaints, doesn't mean you're doing the best job you're capable of.

I think you guys are getting really riled up about something that should be brought up. Do you guys have the same respect for a pro-shop worker who blindly recommends popular frames versus someone who is willing to talk with you and find the best frame for your game? It's the same concept. Sure, anyone can sell you a racquet because Joe Pro is using it, but I have much more respect for the shop owner/shop worker who asks you questions about your game, and tells you why XX racquet is better suited for you.

If you've got a customer that doesn't care, that's one thing, but you shouldn't make assumptions like that.
 
Thanks to the OP for bringing this up. I agree with a lot of what you said, and I agree with DD as well. It isn't that you can string, it's how well you string. For the at home stringers who strings for themselves it's fine to be happy with the jobs they do, but the picture changes when paying customers are involved. Let me say this so it's out there: Good for anyone who wants to learn to string and picks it up. There is NOTHING wrong with being a recreational stringer. But too many people string 4 or 5 sticks "mistake free" and feel like they are ready to string for any person at any time. I have seen too much bad advice given in the stringing forum to let it slide. I think there is some overreaction to the OP, maybe stemming from the honest truth that many people think they are incredible stringers, but would be eaten alive in a pro shop setting.

Again, props to anyone who wants to learn to string. It's a great skill to have, but it takes a lot of frames to get great at it. Don't let this discourage you from wanting to learn, but get really proficient at it before you offer your services to other players and give advice to other stringers.
 

goober

Legend
I think there is this misplaced perception that there are a lot of people claiming to be expert stringers after stringing a few racquets. I think that is an exaggeration. I honestly haven't seen that on this forum. I have seen some people say that want to string racquets for others maybe with not enough experience. I don't see the problem. If they don't do a good job they won't get much return business. Maybe some people overestimate their skill in stringing, but unless you have personally inspected their work I don't it is fair to judge somebody on this forum.

I don't string for other people, but I don't have a problem with others that do regardless of skill level. It is a free market. The strong or in this case the skilled will survive. You want to clean up something in tennis? Clean up coaching. There are many more garbage coaches out there than garbage stringers.
 

Cruzer

Professional
Many posters on these boards equate stringing expertise with the quantity of racquets they have strung. I have been stringing racquets for a large number of people for several years and I guess I do a good job because they keep asking me to string their racquets or I happen to string for a bunch of people that have no idea what a good string job is. I don't even solicit stringing business. Literally everyone I string for has approached me about stringing their racquets.
There certainly is some skill involved to get good/consistent results but I don't consider racquet stringing to be all that difficult expecially when guys say they can string a racquet in 15 minutes or less. I still spend 40-55 minutes to string a racquet and I am not interested in churning out racquets in the 10-15 minute range. Sure, maybe some guys buy a stringer, string a half dozen racquets and consider themselves experienced stringers but who really cares? With the exception of a couple of posters like Thomas Martinez or Richard Parnell I take all other posts with a very big grain of salt.
 
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chrisplchs

Professional
Nice.


Not

So, I guess Chuck, Randy, Albert and some other guys I see here who are not only "MRTs" but have done those little events such as "Wimbledon", "US Open" or "top college team" or "ATP tournaments", I guess they aren't qualified enough for you to consider their postings.

Seriously, but usually, there is little correlation between quantity and skill. Having done a lot of racquets doesn't make you skilled. Not having done many racquets doesn't make you unskilled either. However, the most skilled stringers have usually done the most racquets as people keep coming back to them over and over.

As for the time issue, stringing a racquet in under 15 minutes (open packaging, mounting, stringing) is not as easy as you think. If everybody could do it, then everybody could stringing for tournaments. The focus is often unreal and the motion is precise. Can somebody do a great of a job in 15 minutes as one can do in 45 minutes? Yes. Is it something I want to do everytime? No.

I agree with some of the posters here about bad coaches/teachers. Getting your certification in PTR or USPTA is too easy nowadays.
 
N

ne1410is

Guest
I wish I had a pro stringer around here that took pride in his work like you do. Its nice to see passion in what you do and that your devotion is towards the customer.
 

chrisplchs

Professional
Funny story from today

I went to "O M E G A" sports (chain store in Carolina) to get me some sweat pants as I love to wear them and it isn't that warm yet and they were like 75 percent off.

I noticed that their guy stringing racquets was there so I decided to chat for a little bit while perusing their tennis and string selection.

Here's a recap of the convo:
Me: "Aren't the crosses supposed to be straight when you string them?"
Him: "It doesn't make any difference. It all plays the same and takes too long. Plus it doesn't come out straight"
Me: "Do you usually go bottom to top on your crosses (he was stringing a LM radicial or something to that extent, BOTTOMS TO TOP)?"
Him: "I go from when the vertical strings end"
Me: "I thought you pull tension after every cross and main(he would string four and then pull)"
Him: "It takes less time this way"
Me: "You obviously don't seem very good at this"
Him: "I'm an experienced professional. We have certification (points to the USRSA member paper). This machine is the best (Star 5 which I can agree to somewhat). I'm so good I can do racquets in 20 minutes (to which i chuckle)"

Phenomenal. I hope they keep on doing that so I can get more customers when one of them cracks a yonex or head.

But this is the problem with most big box stores and a lot of "stringers" I meet. This is why people think it doesn't f'ing matter where you take your racquets as it all feels the same. This is why I get more and more business
 

LMW

Rookie
Stringing a tennis racquet is about as complicated as changing a tire on a car. It is NOT an extraordinary skill!
 

Sakumo

Semi-Pro
Stringing a tennis racquet is about as complicated as changing a tire on a car. It is NOT an extraordinary skill!

Wow, you are so wrong. You probably do a crappy 3 hour job with knots that loose 20 lbs of tension. Stringing is like tennis. ANYONE can play it, but it takes time and effort to become good. I understand the OP's argument, but I also see others. But really, who cares. If you are happy with stringing your own rackets then do it. Call yourself a stringer. This is just like people cutting their own hair. And then when you go into a barber shop, they are offended because you cut your own hair instead of seeing them.
 

John Galt

Rookie
Wow, you are so wrong. You probably do a crappy 3 hour job with knots that loose 20 lbs of tension. Stringing is like tennis. ANYONE can play it, but it takes time and effort to become good. I understand the OP's argument, but I also see others. But really, who cares. If you are happy with stringing your own rackets then do it. Call yourself a stringer. This is just like people cutting their own hair. And then when you go into a barber shop, they are offended because you cut your own hair instead of seeing them.

Sakumo, do not try to judge someone that doesn't equate stringing with brain surgery. Stringing a tennis racquet does not take "extraordinary" skill. LMW is correct. Of course it takes "time and effort" but wholly cow, stringing a frame "good" isn't that tough. Don't make it out to be some engineering feat.
 

Sakumo

Semi-Pro
Sakumo, do not try to judge someone that doesn't equate stringing with brain surgery. Stringing a tennis racquet does not take "extraordinary" skill. LMW is correct. Of course it takes "time and effort" but wholly cow, stringing a frame "good" isn't that tough. Don't make it out to be some engineering feat.

Yea it was just a little offending what he said. So then I assume you can string a proportional pattern, ATW style? a 50/50 pattern? and I assume you can do it in all under 15 minutes? Until then don't tell me stringing is easy. What you are saying is "I can serve a tennis ball" and then Andy Roddick asks "Really can you serve at 150 mph?" You think you can play tennis, well pro's think your a newbie. Tons of people think tennis is "easy" but I bet you don't think that is true do you? You know that tennis takes perfecting. Just like stringing.

BTW: You spelled holy wrong.
 

thejackal

Hall of Fame
stringing, at least IMO, is easy to learn, but hard to perfect. i've been stringing for a bit under 2 years now. i average about 45 minutes per racket not going full speed. i dont mess up and do a good job for all my customers, but i know that there's a of room for improvement.
 

chrisplchs

Professional
I'm not trying to make stringing racquets sounds like rocket science. Anybody can do it, once to learn how.

However, if you are going to get hired and get people to pay you to do it, you should know a little more. If you want to an analogy, I'll give you one. Just because you know how to change a tire and have changed a few tires, doesn't mean you are going to change tires for a NASCAR team.
 

Sakumo

Semi-Pro
I'm not trying to make stringing racquets sounds like rocket science. Anybody can do it, once to learn how.

However, if you are going to get hired and get people to pay you to do it, you should know a little more. If you want to an analogy, I'll give you one. Just because you know how to change a tire and have changed a few tires, doesn't mean you are going to change tires for a NASCAR team.

Exactly :D

stringing, at least IMO, is easy to learn, but hard to perfect. i've been stringing for a bit under 2 years now. i average about 45 minutes per racket not going full speed. i dont mess up and do a good job for all my customers, but i know that there's a of room for improvement.

Another good point :D
 

John Galt

Rookie
Yea it was just a little offending what he said. So then I assume you can string a proportional pattern, ATW style? a 50/50 pattern? and I assume you can do it in all under 15 minutes? Until then don't tell me stringing is easy. What you are saying is "I can serve a tennis ball" and then Andy Roddick asks "Really can you serve at 150 mph?" You think you can play tennis, well pro's think your a newbie. Tons of people think tennis is "easy" but I bet you don't think that is true do you? You know that tennis takes perfecting. Just like stringing.

BTW: You spelled holy wrong.

Thanks for the spelling correction but we both know that pointing out such things in a debate is pretty juvenile.

Of course there are different levels of "quality" of stringer..there is no need to discuss the obvious is there? My point was that you disagreed that stringing is not an "extraordinary" skill and you therefore decided that the poster must be a "crappy" stringer. To answer your question, yes I can string frames in several different ways and have been stringing frames for quite a while and doing a decent job (and managed to actually "figure out" ATW, wow ;) ) but I do not see your correlation that by doing it in under 15 minutes must make someone a better stringer. BTW, I do not have any extraordinary skills I just put in a little time and effort. Of course (pointing out the obvious again) we can all get better at what we do; but that does not enter in to this question of defining a stringer. It not a big deal.

Using your non-relative analogy....is not a player on a high school tennis team a "tennis player" even though he cannot hit a 130 mph serve like Andy Roddick? I think that that you are arguing about the quality of a stringer; or the abilities of a stringer...rather than the OP re: "define a stringer".
 

DrewB

New User
This is an interesting topic. I've been seriously thinking buying my own stringer but am now reconsidering.

dancraig's post above, "Most anybody can string a tennis racquet, but do you want most anybody stringing yours?" really explains why I was thinking it would be a good idea to get my own stringer. My instinct agrees with the thought that if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself. Stringing myself might even be a way to improve my game. More frequent stringing, experiments with materials and tension, etc.

I might still go for it and buy a machine at some point, but with adjusted expectations. That's probably not a bad thing.
 

goober

Legend
Most anybody can string a tennis racquet, but do you want most anybody stringing yours?

No I'll string my own just fine :D

I have strung my model of racquet close to a 100 times. I feel I am pretty consistent on it. I seriously doubt if I strung 2 racquets and the local proshop strung 2 racquets at the same tension with the same string and I went out and randomly hit with all 4, I would be able to tell the difference in which racquets were strung by whom.
 

Offshore

Rookie
I agree with John Galt. You can become a decent stringer with some time and effort and I believe that, with practice, you can develop very good skills. I believe that a "stringer" is someone that can string a frame at the right tension with solid capability (knots, technique, consistency). I don't think that being able to string a racquet in "under 15 minutes" matters at all. It certainly is not brain surgery and I would recommend most tennis players to at least consider stringing their own frames. A good stringer doesn't have to be the "Andy Roddick" of the stringing world, LOL.
 

WChiang

Rookie
Stringer: This is a person that not only knows HOW to install the strings, but also can effectively cover all the necessary basis of racquet service. This includes being able to give a customer consistent results. A true stringer will be able to string 3 identical racquets at the same tension with the same strings and the customer will not be able to tell a difference between the three (not counting for manufacturing tolerances such as flex which we have no control over).

I agree with this definition. A "stringer" to me is someone that is consistent, knows his/her way around a racquet, has some experience, and has good knowledge about strings. Galt is correct in that to get to this level you need to put in some time, effort, and practice....but it is not an extraordinary skill and the amount of time it takes to string a racquet well (within reason) is irrelevant. There are some 16 year olds at our academy that play a decent game of tennis but think that if they can string a frame in 15 minutes then that makes them special - it usually just makes them inconsistent. We just chuckle.
 

jonolau

Legend
I totally agree with Masamusou's post. Perhaps I should add another dimension to his statements.

One of the main reasons why I started to do home stringing was that I had come to a point where I was getting frustrated with commercial stringers here. Go to any pro shop to string your racquet here, ask them for a recommendation, and chances are they will try and promote the strings with highest margin or the ones they are obliged to sell.

When I was still an equipment greenhorn, I never understood the dynamics of strings and racquets, and after a while of asking around the shops, I always went away with different conflicting answers, and some of it was bogus and/or vague.

I made it a point to never depend on these people again and took the plunge to get my own stringing machine. But it didn't end there. I made it a point to learn about the technicalities, dynamics and nuances of all string types. I also made it a point to learn about the "customer's" style of play, issues with current string setup and expectations, so that I could recommend a setup that is tailor-made to his/her needs.

I do not sell strings. I do not sell a stringing service. I sell hope. I give them something that will give them more hope in improving their game. Once they can get it out of their mind to stop worrying whether the string setup is suitable, they can now focus the bulk of attention on improving their game and technique. This is the imperative motivation of a good stringer.
 

Sakumo

Semi-Pro
Thanks for the spelling correction but we both know that pointing out such things in a debate is pretty juvenile.

Of course there are different levels of "quality" of stringer..there is no need to discuss the obvious is there? My point was that you disagreed that stringing is not an "extraordinary" skill and you therefore decided that the poster must be a "crappy" stringer. To answer your question, yes I can string frames in several different ways and have been stringing frames for quite a while and doing a decent job (and managed to actually "figure out" ATW, wow ;) ) but I do not see your correlation that by doing it in under 15 minutes must make someone a better stringer. BTW, I do not have any extraordinary skills I just put in a little time and effort. Of course (pointing out the obvious again) we can all get better at what we do; but that does not enter in to this question of defining a stringer. It not a big deal.

Using your non-relative analogy....is not a player on a high school tennis team a "tennis player" even though he cannot hit a 130 mph serve like Andy Roddick? I think that that you are arguing about the quality of a stringer; or the abilities of a stringer...rather than the OP re: "define a stringer".

Really? I thought it was quite juvenile of you to spell it wrong in the first place. I would expect a 7th grader to have the attributes of spelling holy correctly.

As for the reference of the 3 hour job. I'm sure you wouldn't want someone who has changed one tire on a car before, changing your tire, would you? If he thinks things like this, I do assume things like he is a crappy stringer, and shouldn't be doing others rackets.

The 15 minutes part comes with time and experience. Which is why I put it in there. Actually, being able to serve 150 is a "quality", as you put it, of Andy. Which is what the OP talks about. Quality of stringing. Learning the game style of the person whom you are stringing for. People try to go out and string when they don't know truly what the other person should be playing with.

Anyway, I am done with this "argument" if you can call it that. We both see different ways, so leave it that way. I have no intention of changing my mind, and I can see you don't. Sorry if I offended you. It just happens to offend me by what you say.
 
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I totally agree with Masamusou's post. Perhaps I should add another dimension to his statements.

One of the main reasons why I started to do home stringing was that I had come to a point where I was getting frustrated with commercial stringers here. Go to any pro shop to string your racquet here, ask them for a recommendation, and chances are they will try and promote the strings with highest margin or the ones they are obliged to sell.

When I was still an equipment greenhorn, I never understood the dynamics of strings and racquets, and after a while of asking around the shops, I always went away with different conflicting answers, and some of it was bogus and/or vague.

I made it a point to never depend on these people again and took the plunge to get my own stringing machine. But it didn't end there. I made it a point to learn about the technicalities, dynamics and nuances of all string types. I also made it a point to learn about the "customer's" style of play, issues with current string setup and expectations, so that I could recommend a setup that is tailor-made to his/her needs.

I do not sell strings. I do not sell a stringing service. I sell hope. I give them something that will give them more hope in improving their game. Once they can get it out of their mind to stop worrying whether the string setup is suitable, they can now focus the bulk of attention on improving their game and technique. This is the imperative motivation of a good stringer.

Great post, Jonolau. You put many of the things I was thinking into words far better than I was able to. Your customers are lucky to have you.
 

John Galt

Rookie
Really? I thought it was quite juvenile of you to spell it wrong in the first place. I would expect a 7th grader to have the attributes of spelling holy correctly.

.......... Sorry if I offended you. It just happens to offend me by what you say.

You certainly did not offend me with your posts. Its just your opinion, and in reality our disagreements regarding the definition of a stringer are basically semantics (or it could be your failure to grasp what many of us are talking about in this thread).What surprises me is that you think it is "juvenile" when someone mis-types a word on a message board and you are "offended" when someone disagrees with you. Hopefully you will mature when you move on from your teen years and learn how to debate issues like a big boy.
 
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Alley Cat

Rookie
As for the reference of the 3 hour job. I'm sure you wouldn't want someone who has changed one tire on a car before, changing your tire, would you? If he thinks things like this, I do assume things like he is a crappy stringer, and shouldn't be doing others rackets.

Dude, you missed his point entirely. Did you even read the guy's post? He did not equate being a good stringer with someone who has "changed one tire" as you put it. He said that stringing a frame is like changing a car tire. A valid point. I've become a MRT and string dozens of sticks a month - and do a good job. Some of the other posters here have made some great points. The OP, John Galt, jonolau to name a few. After you learn how to string well and know your racquet technologies, etc. ....stringing a racquet can become like changing a tire. This analogy does not minimize the skills learned to be able to string...but it also points out that it is not brain surgery, it just takes practice. Lighen up, Timmy.
 

Sakumo

Semi-Pro
Dude, you missed his point entirely. Did you even read the guy's post? He did not equate being a good stringer with someone who has "changed one tire" as you put it. He said that stringing a frame is like changing a car tire. A valid point. I've become a MRT and string dozens of sticks a month - and do a good job. Some of the other posters here have made some great points. The OP, John Galt, jonolau to name a few. After you learn how to string well and know your racquet technologies, etc. ....stringing a racquet can become like changing a tire. This analogy does not minimize the skills learned to be able to string...but it also points out that it is not brain surgery, it just takes practice. Lighen up, Timmy.

What:confused: I'm thinking further along the lines. Just like I an change one tire. But I'm not ready to change nascar tires, as someone has already said. You pretty much just said the same thing. If you can explain I might understand. But to me you just said it's not like changing tires. But it is like changing tires :confused:
 

Sakumo

Semi-Pro
You certainly did not offend me with your posts. Its just your opinion, and in reality our disagreements regarding the definition of a stringer are basically semantics (or it could be your failure to grasp what many of us are talking about in this thread).What surprises me is that you think it is "juvenile" when someone mis-types a word on a message board and you are "offended" when someone disagrees with you. Hopefully you will mature when you move on from your teen years and learn how to debate issues like a big boy.

Lol this coming from someone who spells holy, wholly. Come back and talk to me again once you graduate from Highschool. Until then enjoy your Taco bell job. I'm done discussing things you don't understand. As for saying I'm offended when someone disagrees. No I am offended when someone says something I love to do and perfect is easy. How would you feel if someone compares playing tennis with getting dressed, and to top it off they have no supporting reasons.

BTW: You didn't "mistype" holy. You had no idea how to spell it. No one mistypes that badly.
 

John Galt

Rookie
Thanks for making my point with your last two posts. You just don't get it. As I mentioned, hopefully you will mature after your teen years and learn how to debate issues like a big boy. Until then, keep posting about grammar, Taco Bell job nonsense, and misrepresenting what people are saying...anything to avoid the main issues in this thread. As Alley Cat stated...once you learn how to string a frame, spend some time practicing and work on your skills - it's like changing a tire. We can all get better at it- but I hate to burst your bubble, junior, there are many more difficult things in life to worry about. You will learn that as you grow up. See you at the mall ;)
 

LoveThisGame

Professional
There have been some very fine comments in this thread. Jonolau, we agree; twenty years ago I stated that what I sell is hope. You are the only person I've heard make this statement.

Yes, many folks can learn to string, most of them wanting to string their own frames. Where the term stringer comes in, in my way of thinking, is when the person acts in a professional manner.

No, this isn' high faluting stuff. It's that you care about doing a good job, seeking to learn as much as you can, possessing knowledge and experience to fair depth and breadth, becoming a problem solver, avoiding problems, being able to walk in the customer's shoes, and being able to suggest better solutions for a customer. It is good if you are task oriented.

It's nothing to do with speed. (It does mean providing reasonable turnaround for the customer, though.) But it does mean having a good approach to stringing. I once taught someone to string, and I remember remarking that every thing I do while stringing is done for quality and/or efficiency. Quality includes consistency.

I've strung for a long time and for a wide variety of customers with what seems to be a widely recognized regard, which makes me happy.

Self-stringers, hobby stringers, stringing for close friends, et al are fine and in many case do an adequate job. They may well not have all the aspects I mentioned for professional stringing.
 

jonolau

Legend
Great post, Jonolau. You put many of the things I was thinking into words far better than I was able to. Your customers are lucky to have you.

Dude, you missed his point entirely. Did you even read the guy's post? He did not equate being a good stringer with someone who has "changed one tire" as you put it. He said that stringing a frame is like changing a car tire. A valid point. I've become a MRT and string dozens of sticks a month - and do a good job. Some of the other posters here have made some great points. The OP, John Galt, jonolau to name a few. After you learn how to string well and know your racquet technologies, etc. ....stringing a racquet can become like changing a tire. This analogy does not minimize the skills learned to be able to string...but it also points out that it is not brain surgery, it just takes practice. Lighen up, Timmy.


Thanks for the comments.

To borrow the tire changing analogy, it is mind-boggling to understand how tires are changed, and even after observing how it's done, it will be a totally different thing to actually change them yourself. I used to work in a garage to pay my way through univeristy, so I understand what it's all about.

It's not just about the tire, but recommending one to the customer that would suit his driving style and the types of roads and conditions he normally faces. Some drive aggressively, so they need something that offeres good road grip and cornering capabilities. Others face wet roads, and that requires another type of tyre. Then there are those who are only more concerned about fuel efficiency, so that is another different requirement.

Same thing with strings. A racquet is not a racquet. Each different type of frame has different characteristics.

A stringer should have the basic minimum of stringing a racquet consistently and also not crack the frame in the process.

But a good stringer take pride in their job and goes the extra mile to be innovative and do an ace job in service.

I don't just string racquets, but I treat them with loving care as if my own. I repair misshaped grommets and replace damaged ones without customers asking. I regrip overgrips that were done incorrectly. I also gently clean up frames that have build up a layer of dirt and grime on the paintwork and make it look as new and shiny as possible. I touch up paint chips etc.

If you want to do a job, do it with passion. Otherwise it becomes tedious and a chore, and will become immediately apparent to the customer.
 

jonolau

Legend
There have been some very fine comments in this thread. Jonolau, we agree; twenty years ago I stated that what I sell is hope. You are the only person I've heard make this statement.

Yes, many folks can learn to string, most of them wanting to string their own frames. Where the term stringer comes in, in my way of thinking, is when the person acts in a professional manner.

No, this isn' high faluting stuff. It's that you care about doing a good job, seeking to learn as much as you can, possessing knowledge and experience to fair depth and breadth, becoming a problem solver, avoiding problems, being able to walk in the customer's shoes, and being able to suggest better solutions for a customer. It is good if you are task oriented.

It's nothing to do with speed. (It does mean providing reasonable turnaround for the customer, though.) But it does mean having a good approach to stringing. I once taught someone to string, and I remember remarking that every thing I do while stringing is done for quality and/or efficiency. Quality includes consistency.

I've strung for a long time and for a wide variety of customers with what seems to be a widely recognized regard, which makes me happy.

Self-stringers, hobby stringers, stringing for close friends, et al are fine and in many case do an adequate job. They may well not have all the aspects I mentioned for professional stringing.
Thank you for the kind words. I've also picked up a number of things from your post.

It's nothing to do with speed. (It does mean providing reasonable turnaround for the customer, though.) But it does mean having a good approach to stringing. I once taught someone to string, and I remember remarking that every thing I do while stringing is done for quality and/or efficiency. Quality includes consistency.
This is so true. Consistency is only a component of quality. Quality is holistic.

If I'd come across a stringer like you before, I probably would've been extremely chuffed with your service and not bothered to learn myself.
 

Mulligan

Rookie
jonolau you have really hit the definition of a "real stringer" on the head along with Masamusou, LoveThisGame, John Galt, Alley Cat, & others. (Sakumo I think a lot of this stuff went over your head or you missed the point of some of the posters). Almost anyone can learn how to string a be a decent stringer. The changing a tire analogy, especially when put in perspective by jonolau, is also quite appropriate. But it is the holistic approach of fine tuning the entire racquet with thought and precision, based on one's experience, that completes the equation. Excellent posts.
 

OrangeOne

Legend
But a good stringer take pride in their job and goes the extra mile to be innovative and do an ace job in service.

I don't just string racquets, but I treat them with loving care as if my own. I repair misshaped grommets and replace damaged ones without customers asking. I regrip overgrips that were done incorrectly. I also gently clean up frames that have build up a layer of dirt and grime on the paintwork and make it look as new and shiny as possible. I touch up paint chips etc.

Jon, I liked most of your post, but the above para worried me a little....

There was a story we were told when I was doing my personal-training course. An experienced PT was teaching at the time, probably in a 'business principles' style module. She said she had one client she really enjoyed training, they were friendly, chatted while training etc etc, and that this client had the last slot in her day, and she had nothing on that weeknight. Often she would go overtime in this session by 15mins or so, as she just enjoyed the session, enjoyed the training she was getting, and she figured the client was getting extra value for free - at $50 an hour, an extra 15mins is great, right?.

Eventually the client said that she no longer wanted the services of the trainer....and the reason? Because the trainer couldn't stick to the time schedule, and the client had a family to get home to / other commitments to attend to. The extra 15mins was inconveniencing her to the point where she ended the training relationship.

I have never forgotten that story, I find it's often relevant as a 'both sides of the story' investigation - one person's 'favour' / 'excellent service' / 'freebee', can be another person's pain in the butt. I'm not really saying that you're doing this to much of an extent, eg. I can't think of anyone who would complain about having their frame cleaned when being strung!

But I know (for example) that I wouldn't want paint chips touched up on my frames. I really don't care how my frames look, but in reality, I'd rather a few chips than some touch-up paint. Just my preference, but the racquet is my asset, and come to sell time, i'd rather sell with chips than touch-up paint (especially as touch-up paint could be used to hide a crack). Maybe sometimes someone that has 'badly gripped' a racquet in one person's opinion....just grips it very differently, or maybe they're learning to grip and sourced pride in that effort and would be bummed that someone else effectively told them it was crap?

Just my thoughts, and really just my thoughts from the devil's advocate stance. Obviously most of the services you're offering as 'bonuses / extra-mile' activities are great - but maybe sometimes it might be best to ask first and just make sure it's ok with the customer. Maybe you already do this, and maybe I'm telling you to suck-eggs. My bad if so...
 

Steve Huff

G.O.A.T.
I agree with Masamusou's post, and I'd even add more. A REAL stringer is someone that can not only string rackets, but competently know how to change a racket's playing characteristics using different strings, tensions, weights, or even knowing when to suggest a different frame. A stringer needs to be able to interpret a customer's comments, or even watch a customer play, and make recommendations that will help the customer play better and enjoy his equipment more. I know some "stringers" just go around to stores and pick up rackets and string them with whatever is written on the order. There's nothing wrong with this. They're making a living, and filling someone's need (usually the store's). But, to me, they still are lacking in a key ingredient of a true stringer.
 
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