Mainad
Bionic Poster
How brave of you but he says "Hi" to you as well.
Does Murray have the ugliest game ever among ATGs?
- Thread starter UnforcedTerror
- Start date
How brave of you but he says "Hi" to you as well.
am1899
Legend
Agreed. Also…
The grip Nadal uses for BH slice is a lot closer to eastern forehand than it is continental, causing the racquet face to be extremely open during the swing. It works for him, and it’s obviously effective. But nothing in the realm of “textbook.”
-snake-
Hall of Fame
@Nole Slam , school this guy.
Booger
Hall of Fame
Mainad
Bionic Poster
It's heartwarming to know how well you get on together.
I don't have the stats with me but I remember Petchey showing it on TV. It was clearly Nadal purely on success rate. There was a thread about that too on TTW.
Booger
Hall of Fame
Can't wait to not call him and not send him a christmas card this year. It's tradition for us.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
I never call him or send him a Christmas card either. Isn't it amazing how much we have in common?
am1899
Legend
Success rate at net is not necessarily indicative of “best volleyer of the big 3.”
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
@bjsnider Not a snarky question but a legit one:
Your thesis: Andy Murray is among the 12 greatest players of the OE when he has three major titles.
One would assume most tennis historians would list the men listed below as so far ahead of Murray it would be laughable, and I'm omitting Emerson who won 12 slams. I'm also omitting Tilden and Perry, since all are pre-OE. Hell, I'm even ignoring Rosewall since a portion of his 8 slams were won pre-OE. I'll restrict my list to all OE players:
Djokovic/Fed/Nadal: 60 slams total between them
Pete: 14 slams
Borg/Laver both 11 majors
Connors/Agassi/Lendl : each won 8 slams
Wilander: 7 slams
Becker, Edberg/Newcombe: each won 6 slams (Newcombe won more in non-OE).
Adding this up, we have 13 guys with more than DOUBLE the slams Muzz has. I'm not even mentioning players with 4 slams like Courier or Vilas (who won twice as many titles as Murray in addition).
But Murray's an ATG? Care to justify that he's one of the 12 greatest in the OE? Who do we toss out of the list above to slam Murray into ATG status with 3 major titles? Again, not being b-tchy, I just have no clue how anyone justifies such an assertion.
goldengate14
Professional
You are not a fan of Sir Andy Murray then it is reasonable to infer perhaps?
goldengate14
Professional
You missed Mcenroe so that is 14.
However Murray is an ATG. As his Hewitt and Wawrinka and Kuerten. And Rafter and Stich. And Delpo. None were fluke winners like Kraijeck Gomes Johannson and Thiem and probably Mededev
STRONGSTYLE
Rookie
Mats Wilander is 10x more boring.
Jokervich
Hall of Fame
Not a fan but I don't dislike him either.
nolefam_2024
G.O.A.T.
Murray is much more muscular than average ATP player. He is also one of the pushy players who counterpunched his whole life. Maybe few matches here and there he was attacking. That's not enough over his entire career.
Booger
Hall of Fame
Rafa is the poster boy for PED's in tennis, Andy Murray isn't far behind, though. If that matters.
RaulRamirez
Legend
What type of sandwich did you literally eat?
Booger
Hall of Fame
Oh man, it was a vegan sandwich since I was there with my vegan friend. Tofu, fake cheese, arugula, peppers, tomato. It was..ok.
Subway Tennis
Legend
Agree
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Neither of them won the premier Slam, Wimbledon (Lendl had to coach Murray to do it, Wilander never even made a final). Wilander never even won the YEC. So who feels insulted?
ghostofMecir
Legend
lol no he’s not
nolefam_2024
G.O.A.T.
Lendl has 8 slams total. 5 more than Murray. He is number one 5 more years than Murray.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Who's saying he wasn't better overall? But he still didn't win Wimbledon (despite busting a gut to do so).
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Def not, just the hardest to watch. All that agonizing is such a turn off. If I wanna watch someone look like they hate what they do that much I'll go to Subway
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Def not, just the hardest to watch. All that agonizing is such a turn off. If I wanna watch someone look like they hate what they do that much I'll go to Subway
Yep, he hates tennis so much he's risking his metallic hip just to try and stay competitive in it!
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Yep, he hates tennis so much he's risking his metallic hip just to try and stay competitive in it!
Oh I knew you were gonna defend
But he's the biggest buzzkill in all sports to watch. I literally don't know how you do it.
All that agonizing for 3 slams
Booger
Hall of Fame
Yep, he hates tennis so much he's risking his metallic hip just to try and stay competitive in it!
I always thought he hated tennis and was just doing it so mummy would give him some GBP (Good Boy Points), but bionic hip murray must have found a little love for the game afterall.
He is. His success rate is unmatched. John Mcenroe says so https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...l-is-the-best-volleyer-in-the-top-100.504363/
Petchey presented the stats on tv and he showed that Nadal is the most successful volleyer of his generation. There was a thread about that too.
It's not a traditional volley but more like " set up, is that good enough?, yes, come to the net". Traditionally, players just went to the net regardless of the quality of previous shot. His superior movement allowed him to do so.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
Some would say the proverbial bowling shoe is more attractive than Murray's game.
Olli Jokinen
Hall of Fame
Forgot McEnroe.
TheFifthSet
Legend
You know, in just about every other sport being a Top 40ish player of all time will net you the label of all-time great. Curious that this doesn’t tend to be so in tennis. Probably a function of the lack of parity at the top.
NatF
Bionic Poster
I'll make that deal if I can call Hewitt an ATG.
RS
Bionic Poster
Your man played at a ATG level in the USO 01 SF/F but not quite good enough for a ATG career.
RS
Bionic Poster
Do you think Hewitt would have at least one more major if not for all the health issues?
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
Lendl's backhand was stunning.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Probably not with Fed around, I think he has a good shot at the YEC in 2005 with Fed injured and an ok shot at the AO in 2006 with Fed not at his best. IMO he makes the odd slam final and lots of slam SF's for a few more years, maybe grabs a couple of masters etc...I think if he had his 04-05 slam consistency in 01-02 there's a good chance he wins a couple more slams in those years.
bjsnider
Hall of Fame
I am also using total number of slam finals, titles, etc. and certainly total time spent as world number one. You are only using one criteria, which is a curious choice for someone who spent so much time composing that post.
Olli Jokinen
Hall of Fame
... and forgot McEnroe.
RS
Bionic Poster
It actually thinking that maybe Hewitt played at his AO 05 SF/F level maybe he could upest AO 06 Fed.
bjsnider
Hall of Fame
This is how Bodo sized up an ATG in Courts of Babylon, speaking of Lendl:
Ultimately, Lendl would win eight Grand Slam titles, one more than his lifelong tormentor, John McEnroe, and the same number as his other major rival, Jimmy Connors. He would contest nineteen Grand Slam finals, appearing in the championship match in at least one of the Big Four tournaments for a solid decade beginning in 1981. Lendl led Czechoslovakia to a Davis Cup victory in 1980...
Lendl was ranked in the top ten for 13 consecutive years, a streak surpassed only by Connors (16 successive years). He won 94 sanctioned titles in his career, 17 more than McEnroe but 15 fewer than Connors. Between 1985 and 1988, Lendl held the world’s number one ranking for 157 consecutive weeks, second only to Connors’s 160-week run. But Lendl has spent the most total weeks in the number one position (270 weeks—2 weeks longer than Connors). Thus, he has a legitimate claim to being the top player of the Open era.
Judge Murray on that basis rather than merely how many slams he won.
Ultimately, Lendl would win eight Grand Slam titles, one more than his lifelong tormentor, John McEnroe, and the same number as his other major rival, Jimmy Connors. He would contest nineteen Grand Slam finals, appearing in the championship match in at least one of the Big Four tournaments for a solid decade beginning in 1981. Lendl led Czechoslovakia to a Davis Cup victory in 1980...
Lendl was ranked in the top ten for 13 consecutive years, a streak surpassed only by Connors (16 successive years). He won 94 sanctioned titles in his career, 17 more than McEnroe but 15 fewer than Connors. Between 1985 and 1988, Lendl held the world’s number one ranking for 157 consecutive weeks, second only to Connors’s 160-week run. But Lendl has spent the most total weeks in the number one position (270 weeks—2 weeks longer than Connors). Thus, he has a legitimate claim to being the top player of the Open era.
Judge Murray on that basis rather than merely how many slams he won.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Oh I knew you were gonna defend
Forget how he appears on court, he loves playing. Fretted like mad when his injuries kept him off the tour. Just wanted to get back as soon as possible.
I just think Federer is the best volleyer.
Nevertheless, he is the only ATG nowadays who like approach the net.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Murray is someone who loves to compete rather than loves to win.
TennisLurker
Professional
Lendl didn't have an ugly game
