does natural gut break easily during string job?

[Magic of tennis]

I was stringing my racquet and I broke two strings of natural guts during
string job. It was my first string job with natural gut. I wonder if I was doing something wrong.
Does anybody have similar experience?
I couldn't finish stringing with natural gut because it was keep breaking so I had to use multi to finish.

 

[drakulie]

If you don't have exeprience stringing natural gut, and kink it, it tends to break.

You have to be very careful that the string doesn't fold over or twist. You need to let the string relax by dropping the end to the floor while you are pulling tension.

Make sure your clamps are not too tight.

etc., etc, etc.

Here is a vid that could help you out in stringing natural gut.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpfwDvF3Buk

I'm sure JimE and Irvin will chime in. They both have some great tips at stringing gut.

Good luck.

 

[dancraig]

Also, don't pull too hard when you tie off.
Cheap gut can't be strung very tight, not above about 50-55.

 

[Irvin]

I find gut will break no more than any other string. DON'T BUY CHEAP GUT. There is a reason the price is so low. Here are some ideas you may want to try and not just for gut but any string.

Always string two piece unless you have good reason for one piece. This leaves fresher string for the crosses.

Preweave the top three or four crosses up and tension from the top cross down. This leaves fresher string in the hitting area.

Don't pull gut over high strings and under low strings. Weave one ahead and pull the gut through before you tension the string two above. Only leave enough of a loop to tension the string. Many people leave the tip of the string in just far enough to hold the tip up where they can gab it for the next string. SPEED KILLS - This is a bad practice in my opinion. When you pull a twisted string over high strings and under low strings there is more friction (friction kills too) and because the string is twisted it tends to untwist. When you weave one ahead so you can go under high strings and over the low ones. Pull that string all the way through and let the tip go to the floor. After tension carefully pull the remainder of the string through. ALso allowing the tip to drop lets you now pick up the string and straighten the string out. If you hold the end while you are pulling (and untwisting) the string through the mains you will be weaving a string more likely to kick up on you for the next cross. If you can keep the string as prestine at the bottom as when you started you are doing great.

Then there are the knots. This is going to be the weakest part of the string and you can break gut very easily with you bare hands if you tie it in a knot. If you string two piece you will have twice as many knots. Use a Parnell or pro knot and be careful not to over tighten them.

One last thing if you are using something like a Babolat Hybrid with poly crosses be very careful as the poly can notch the gut in a heartbeat.

EDIT: How could I forget? Make sure your clamps and gripper are clean and adjusted properly.

 

[Clintspin]

I have had no problem with cheaper gut. Maybe I have been lucky but I have put a ton of it in my racquets from newer ones to my vintage and even my wood. I have never had a set of cheap gut break.

 

[Irvin]

When I first started stringing I used to buy some natural gut that came in a rose colored package for $10 a set and I never had a set break on me. I was lucky too.

EDIT: Or maybe we are just that good. No on second thought we were just that lucky.

 

[slice bh compliment]

Great advice from Irvin.
I predict Magic of Tennis will learn from Irvin's skills and use them to replace his magic.

 

[nalvarado]

Incoming account : Magic of Irvin

 

[kingofstring]

Yes you also have to weave slower not to burn the string!

 

[Clintspin]

Magic this is a good article for you:

http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/articles/2006/03/dont_bust_a_gut.html

 

[Irvin]

http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/articles/2006/03/dont_bust_a_gut.html

Very good article but I disagree with some of their points.

Mounting the starting clamp behind the machine clamp does not increase the clamping force.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp3yhJVyPTk

Mounting a starting clamp on the outside of the frame MAY damage the string. You should know what your clamp will and will not do before you ever start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNvcxpJML5s

You can eliminate hard weaves (and all blocked holes) when doing ATW patterns, if you use the short side to run the outside mains and the bottom cross. Complete the short side before you run all the crosses with with long side but do not tension them until you tie off the long side.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Nms1Ss0XeI

If you use the long side for the ATW your short side string will be shorter and your long side will be longer. This will put more stress on the gut string while weaving all the crosses.

If you use the short side for the ATW your short side is longer and your long side is shorter putting less stress on the cross strings because less string is being ran through fewer tensioned mains.

It is my opinion though two piece stringing is better for the frame and the string, so my preference is not to use ATW patterns.

 

[Irvin]

I have been playing around with my starting clamps to see if I could reduce any damage they may cause to the string. I put a small piece of rubber (2.5 cm by 2.5 cm or 1" x 1") around the string where I would clamp it and then put my starting clamp on the rubber around the string.

The rubber gives you a good gripping surface to grip the string and the clamp. The rubber deforms and wraps around the string giving you more contact to the string so it holds better. Because the rubber is a softer surface than the metal starting clamp there should also be less damage. Because of the good grip and more string contact I can place in the starting clamp farther out toward the tip with still no slipping. If it does slip what kind of dame will the soft rubber do anyway?

I used a section of a rubber tire inner tube but you could use a grip band or a small section of a wider rubber band.

 

[Tennusdude]

Do you offer a guarantee on the string jobs when you string with babolat vs gut?
In other words if the person comes back to you a week later with broken strings do you ever offer a restring for free?

 

[Irvin]

Do you offer a guarantee on the string jobs when you string with babolat vs gut?
In other words if the person comes back to you a week later with broken strings do you ever offer a restring for free?

With a set of gut costing almost $50 a set I would not.

 

[Tennusdude]

With a set of gut costing almost $50 a set I would not.

How exactly would you handle it then. I have this one person who has come back to me twice now with broken gut after only one week. I have not had that problem with anyone else. He is an older gentleman who doesnt move well and I am pretty sure he hits near the frame more often than most since he has trouble reach the ball. I have actually played tennis with him and seen this happen.
I dont want to string his rackets with gut anymore but I dont want to insult him by telling him he is not good enough of a player to use gut. He probably thinks it is my fault at this point because I have restrung his racket for a loss both times.

 

[Irvin]

Is this VS gut or a lower grade of gut? I don't string VS gut a lot of the gut I do string is for a few people that bring their own string. I charge $10 to string their racket. If the string breaks before I give it back it's free if it breaks after they play with it it is $10 again. I am just charging to string the racket and there are no guarantees. I make that known before I string the racket.

With that said if someone had a string break within a week and they aren't string breakers I would string it again for free if they supplied the string. As far as I am concerned you don't have to be good to play with gut. If you can afford it and like it go for me. But I'm not going to keep paying for gut in someone else's racket.

I guess the big question is why is the gut breaking. I have seen shearing and understand it but normally that doesn't happen that much with gut unless he is hitting with a lot of spin.

 

[Tennusdude]

Is this VS gut or a lower grade of gut? I don't string VS gut a lot of the gut I do string is for a few people that bring their own string. I charge $10 to string their racket. If the string breaks before I give it back it's free if it breaks after they play with it it is $10 again. I am just charging to string the racket and there are no guarantees. I make that known before I string the racket.

With that said if someone had a string break within a week and they aren't string breakers I would string it again for free if they supplied the string. As far as I am concerned you don't have to be good to play with gut. If you can afford it and like it go for me. But I'm not going to keep paying for gut in someone else's racket.

I guess the big question is why is the gut breaking. I have seen shearing and understand it but normally that doesn't happen that much with gut unless he is hitting with a lot of spin.

It is VS Gut 16g. I have strung many many other with same string and no problem. One racket is the original Wilson Profile 110 and the other racket he has is a Prince Silver O3. I string the Prince using 50/50

 

[Irvin]

That profile is very stiff and could break strings a lot. I can only guess why they are really breaking though so you going to have to judge why and tell the customer what you think he should do.

 

[Virtua Tennis]

Where is the gut breaking if it's in the middle of the string bed then it's just wear and tear. If it's on the side of the frame or on tie offs then check the grommets.

 

[Tennusdude]

Irvin is right on about the Profile, it really can and does break strings more easily than other rackets and I dont believe is a great choice for natural gut. The gut broken on the top near the side but not on a tie off.

The Prince Silver O3 has broken near the throat, not by a tieoff but where the string does not go through a grommet but actually wraps around the frame. This location is right next the the last tall soft rubber throat grommet as well.
I checked for burrs and imperfections the area looks to be smooth.

It leads me to believe it is being caused by striking the ball at the side of the frame right at the grommet area. I have read that natural gut does not have good angular strength compared nylon or poly and is more prone to breakage when ball strikes in these areas of the racket.

 

[Irvin]

I just guessing here mind you but I think the issue is with the grommets. For the old Wilson that has been out of production for over 20 years you probably have a grommet problem. And for the Prince they are well known for allowing the string to slide back and forth near the point at which they bend to go into the stringbed. Isner tubes all his strings because of string breakage.

You have two OS stiff string breakers. That is not a good fit for a multifilament string especially gut unless you have deep pockets and really like natty gut.

EDIT: If he really wants to stick with gut I would replace the grommets with individual grommets unless you can find a full set of grommets. When pulling on the outside mains you put a lot of pressure on the grommets and over 20+ years it could be down to the graphite. I would tube the Prince and/or get new grommets.

 

[Irvin]

This isn't a Siler but it shows what I'm talking about. The string vibrating back and fourth has rubbed through the frame on this racket. I tube these types frame now whether they show wear or not.

 

[Tennusdude]

Thanks Irvin, you have certainly made things clearly for me.

 

[jim e]

Do you offer a guarantee on the string jobs when you string with babolat vs gut?
In other words if the person comes back to you a week later with broken strings do you ever offer a restring for free?

I would offer no guarantee at all especially with nat.gut.

One time many many years back I had a customer that I strung with nat. gut bring a racquet back after 1 week string broke, I restrung it for free, and later found out from another person that this person picked up a stone and hit the racquet with it to pop the strings.After that came back to me I immediately increased my fees across the boards for all strings.Stringers should prepare for issues as such, as I cannot understand why some here only charge $10.00 /labor, as I charged that over 40 years ago.That was when gas was approx. 28 cents /gal,and prices have gone up a great deal on just about everything since then.

Now at present time, I give a lecture to all new gut customers about guts issues and early breakage is their problem not mine, or they can go elsewhere.
And anyone who supplies their own string be it gut or synthetic there is not only no guarantee for longevity, but no guarantee even if it breaks on machine as I have no idea how the string was stored or cared for, where I know my stock is fresh, and kept in good environment.You need to tell them this before you receive the racquet.This is just common sense.

Even some of the players I hit with keep their racquets in trunk of car which is not good for gut or synthetics at any time of year.

Anyone who guarantees a string job is not clearly thinking. The only thing I offer is on a new customer with a synthetic string only is if they do not know exact tension desired I would make best guess on infor obtained from them and tell them if they preferred a higher or lower tension I would redo it for free for 1 time only. No one has yet to take me up on that.

 

[Tennusdude]

I would offer no guarantee at all especially with nat.gut.

One time many many years back I had a customer that I strung with nat. gut bring a racquet back after 1 week string broke, I restrung it for free, and later found out from another person that this person picked up a stone and hit the racquet with it to pop the strings.After that came back to me I immediately increased my fees across the boards for all strings.Stringers should prepare for issues as such, as I cannot understand why some here only charge $10.00 /labor, as I charged that over 40 years ago.That was when gas was approx. 28 cents /gal,and prices have gone up a great deal on just about everything since then.

Now at present time, I give a lecture to all new gut customers about guts issues and early breakage is their problem not mine, or they can go elsewhere.
And anyone who supplies their own string be it gut or synthetic there is not only no guarantee for longevity, but no guarantee even if it breaks on machine as I have no idea how the string was stored or cared for, where I know my stock is fresh, and kept in good environment.You need to tell them this before you receive the racquet.This is just common sense.

Even some of the players I hit with keep their racquets in trunk of car which is not good for gut or synthetics at any time of year.

Anyone who guarantees a string job is not clearly thinking. The only thing I offer is on a new customer with a synthetic string only is if they do not know exact tension desired I would make best guess on infor obtained from them and tell them if they preferred a higher or lower tension I would redo it for free for 1 time only. No one has yet to take me up on that.

I am not thinking clearly because I have given free string jobs to new customers. I will restring if they arent VERY happy. Especially if the new customer is a string breaker and restrings often, meaning from one week to one month. I found this insures return business from these customers. I have had one customer who restrung almost everyday during his heavy practice season. This was a high school kid. I even pick up rackets and deliver whenever the customer calls me from the tennis courts. I also string within one hour at no extra charge. I play tennis everyday and play with many different people and I string 90 percent of their rackets.
I just realized I never think clearly!!! Thanks for reminding me!!! LOL

 

[jim e]

Do you offer a guarantee on the string jobs when you string with babolat vs gut?
In other words if the person comes back to you a week later with broken strings do you ever offer a restring for free?

Well Tennisdude, you asked this question and I gave you my answer.
Even though you do not agree, everyone has their own policy. You do what you feel works for you.

 

[Irvin]

I would have to agree with jim e. If someone wanted to try gut and they said a week later it was no better than their usual string that was half the price I would assume they were not 'VERY happy' with the gut. But I would not restring their racket free because they weren't happy with the gut they wanted to try.

 

[Tennusdude]

Well Tennisdude, you asked this question and I gave you my answer.
Even though you do not agree, everyone has their own policy. You do what you feel works for you.

I did ask the question but it was geared toward natural gut. I am not going to offer any more free stringing on natural gut it is too expensive. I am only charging 40-43 including labor with Babolat VS Touch and Team.

 

[Irvin]

I did ask the question but it was geared toward natural gut. I am not going to offer any more free stringing on natural gut it is too expensive. I am only charging 40-43 including labor with Babolat VS Touch and Team.

With VS Touch costing $46.95/set excluding shipping and labor how do you do that? Or is that Euros?

 

[Tennusdude]

With VS Touch costing $46.95/set excluding shipping and labor how do you do that? Or is that Euros?

I find great deals on craigslist. i buy from people who no longer play tennis or no longer are stringing racket. I buy in bulk and they give me great deals. It takes a good amount of searching.

 

[jim e]

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[Tennusdude]

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After Jim's message, I am at a loss for words!

 

[marosmith]

How exactly would you handle it then. I have this one person who has come back to me twice now with broken gut after only one week. I have not had that problem with anyone else. He is an older gentleman who doesnt move well and I am pretty sure he hits near the frame more often than most since he has trouble reach the ball. I have actually played tennis with him and seen this happen.
I dont want to string his rackets with gut anymore but I dont want to insult him by telling him he is not good enough of a player to use gut. He probably thinks it is my fault at this point because I have restrung his racket for a loss both times.

Tell them to go to hell.

 

[jim e]

How exactly would you handle it then. I have this one person who has come back to me twice now with broken gut after only one week. I have not had that problem with anyone else. He is an older gentleman who doesnt move well and I am pretty sure he hits near the frame more often than most since he has trouble reach the ball. I have actually played tennis with him and seen this happen.
I dont want to string his rackets with gut anymore but I dont want to insult him by telling him he is not good enough of a player to use gut. He probably thinks it is my fault at this point because I have restrung his racket for a loss both times.

I give a lecture to new gut clients, and also when a young hitter comes in and asks for all gut I have them bring in a parent so I can lecture them as well.
In that lecture I tell them just how good nat. gut is , but also let them know just how fragile it is as well, that it can last a long time, but there are times it can snap early, like not properly storing the racquet (You cannot believe how many players that I hit with store their racquets in trunk as that's bad even for synthetics), and also if they are not a clean hitter that the string can snap early due to a shank and that can be the string later snapping in bag due to a mishit earlier.If they are informed of this happening then it does not come back to being a stringer issue. Back in the wooden racquet days, there really was no issue with nat. gut snapping at the frame with mishits like todays racquets do with the grommets.

At this point in time, let him know that some strings are better handeling mishits being more durable and that may be better for his game.
Then again you have Maro's suggestion above, but I would not go that route.

 

[pug]

I am not thinking clearly because I have given free string jobs to new customers. I will restring if they arent VERY happy. Especially if the new customer is a string breaker and restrings often, meaning from one week to one month. I found this insures return business from these customers. I have had one customer who restrung almost everyday during his heavy practice season. This was a high school kid. I even pick up rackets and deliver whenever the customer calls me from the tennis courts. I also string within one hour at no extra charge. I play tennis everyday and play with many different people and I string 90 percent of their rackets.
I just realized I never think clearly!!! Thanks for reminding me!!! LOL

My policy is very much like yours and I think in the long run will pay you back. There will always be a few people who try to take advantage of you, but you can deal with them individually. Most customers will appreciate your policy and tell their friends.

I would tell the fellow with the gut string that he needs to purchase the gut and I will only charge labor to string it, with no guarantee. Or he could try a multi or synthetic and I would guarantee it for one string job only. I would also strongly advise him to get a new racquet and I could offer him my full guarantee.

Good luck!

 

[Tennusdude]

My policy is very much like yours and I think in the long run will pay you back. There will always be a few people who try to take advantage of you, but you can deal with them individually. Most customers will appreciate your policy and tell their friends.

I would tell the fellow with the gut string that he needs to purchase the gut and I will only charge labor to string it, with no guarantee. Or he could try a multi or synthetic and I would guarantee it for one string job only. I would also strongly advise him to get a new racquet and I could offer him my full guarantee.

Good luck!

Thanks for your support!

 

[cartel]

I find great deals on craigslist. i buy from people who no longer play tennis or no longer are stringing racket. I buy in bulk and they give me great deals. It takes a good amount of searching.

wow

just because YOU find a EXCEPTIONAL one time deal to me isnt a reason to pass that on as then the customer will come to expect that-- what happens when you cant get VS for half price and he comes back ? well last week was $43 and today you want $60?

match TW online price for string and charge your labor rate..

maybe the gut you got "on a deal" was old or ??

 

[jim e]

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