Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Haha, NatF's posts often have me in stitches - he has to be one of the cattiest straight guys I've ever come across on an internet forum. Lovin' it!
Fed has 10 hard court majors and Nadal 10 clay majors so
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NoleFam
Bionic Poster
But we now enter Federer's fun house.
With seemingly no one to stop him unless Raonic gets hot again or Kyrgios maybe. With Djokovic's body in Monte Carlo and his brain mediating on a hilltop, I'm not sure if he will be ready.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
I thought you ment TTW hahahahaBut we now enter Federer's fun house.
It was nice here for an hour earlier when we (and @NoleFam) highjacked this thread for a while
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Novaks serve will be exposed on grass. He will be outpowered quickly w good servers, which its a lot of in SW19.
Novak needs a better serve! The perfect coach (not only for him, but a dream coach for Rafa too i believe) would be Sampras! Too bad Sampras will not coach.
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Deleted member 77403
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And have you ever seen that USO gives a pretty good bounce? I have
Its not only FH a massive weapon for Rafa, its the BH too. And did you see how early he takes the ball on BH?? Its pretty darn early and cross court bullets he changes from defense to offense very fast. Boom. He is pretty much a difficult player to play now, w more weapons than ever, best serve he ever had too
Rafa was a huge inspiration for Federer after injury break. Maybe Rafa will be an inspiration for Novak too, it is possible Novak has to make a few changes in his game to be able to play high level being older. (he is more injury prone now)
I have seen everything, but I am focused on Wimbledon right now, not USO. That is what is next and that is where I want to see exactly how much more improved from the start of the year his shots are, because they were pretty good back then too, so lets see how more miraculously better they are now, as you so eloquently stated. Rafa is an inspiration for all players, he is one of the greatest players that ever lived, so I am sure Novak will look to how Nadal turned it around to do so himself.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Well his game is general is not where it needs to be at the moment, not just the serve. His backhand is off, he is not generating the spin on the forehand he was a year ago, etc. Novak has to get his head back in the game first and the rest will fall into place.
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With Kyrgios it is kind of frustrating, I see such exceptional talent, but it is his attitude that gets to me. He openly stated he tanked 8 events this year, that is horrible. And he hurt himself also, which is why he was almost absent from the clay season. Not sure where he stands come Wimbledon.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Not sure how hungry Rafa is on a Wimbledon title. Toni said something not that long time ago Rafas work ethics on grass not like other surfaces. he has to really want it.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
He has a serious chip on his shoulder and openly disrespects the game and certain players. You have to win **** before you can talk ****. That's just how I feel about that. So not really feeling Kyrgios right about now but I will say when he's on and playing well, he shows great talent.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Federer and Rafa had to make some changes to get back on top. I think he will do something little different than his peak form when he gets back. He has been more injury prone too. He has to shorten points a bit to keep up with his body. One can see some changes in his physical form and it started in 2016, before RG. But without a serve he is getting nowhere.
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I think he will be hungry this time round. He has a lot of momentum, Djokovic and Murray are out of sorts, this is a great chance, even if it is his worst surface. He has nothing to lose and everything to gain, and if he wants that slam record, he needs to do his best to make sure Federer does not win SW19.
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Yeah, I just don't get why he has such an appalling attitude, he is really good to watch when he gets going. Hate to say it, but he stepped up against Djokovic twice this year, that match in IW was such a high level, he was unplayable on serve, and that Miami match was instant classic. I would really like to see him get on a run, because I think he is box office.
Maybe, but these BP's is something else. 7 of 7 missed in third set, and 1 of 1 to Haas. His return is good enough to get him to 7 BP's in third set, but he cant convert. Its almost as if he doesnt want to.Its because his return is not that good anymore, and it gets exposed on grass.
Would LOVE Lucas to play Federer in Halle. And in Wimbledon for that matter
I like Pouilles game, but i dont think he can hurt Roger, especially in BO5's.
at your avatar. As if it was any doubt you were Norwegian
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NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Well he had some injuries last year probably because of all the playing he had been doing for a year and a half. He was virtually in the final of every tournament and that wears you down after a while. I could see him going back to the style of play that made him most successful but even more aggressive. I don't see a serious decline physically, but he looks like he is not training as much as he was and not quite in the best shape.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
I lived in Wimbledon from 2011 and onwards 4-5 years, pretty bad timing as a Rafa fan, hahaha. been to Wimbledon many times but never saw him there. So my expertations are so low really. Been dissapointed for some years now. Sometimes I get a light of hope because of his game different now than before. But I mean.... how many matches has he had on grass for 6 years? Like 10 matches or something maximum?
He is practicing now on grass, but he will have no match training before SW19. He probably plays a bit with Moya, but really... thats not the same. Dont know the grass he practice on is similar to London either.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Haha, NatF's posts often have me in stitches - he has to be one of the cattiest straight guys I've ever come across on an internet forum. Lovin' it!
My girlfriend calls it sassy
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Yea he really did step up in both his matches against Djokovic this year. He's good to watch play but not to listen to, as his attitude is off the charts. We will see if he will mature in future. I do hope so.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
I saw him in Paris, he did look weak and not in shape physically.
Yes to play more aggressive! But to do that he has to feel confident.. and strong! But for all we know maybe he is building up some strength as we speak. Its like he needs to literally start to get more muscles on his body. Think he has a smaller chest than before, he needs more to hit that lethal BH. But it can be injuries too that made his serve worse (which I think is the reason), one can get insecuries in serving after injuries.
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I was a bit unsure in Nadal's intentions for grass earlier myself, I thought it might be half hearted approach, but after learning more, I think he is just preparing while keeping his own body in check. Nadal is looking for a full season long full of success, his eyes are on that year end number one ranking now. I think he will go to boodles to get some match play in, and then if he gets a good draw, he will try to sink his teeth in. The most important thing for him is that his serving has improved, and he has great variation and disguise on the serve and serving patterns, this bodes well for him holding serve at Wimbledon. And if had truly improved his strokes on the lower bouncing surfaces, then he does have a serious shot at it.
He will also know Murrovic are not quite there yet, and if for any reason Federer gets upset, then you have to ask, who will stop him in the latter stages of the event.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Well I don't like him so small and wish he would pick up his diet and his training but I guess he knows what's best for him. But to me, he's got to add some more strength workouts to his training. Yea he had an elbow injury and shoulder issue last year that affected his serve. It hasn't been the same since.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Would still have 20 titles including 5 Slams and 8 Masters. Hardly what you'd call 'almost nothing'.
I still dont quite understand it. With that little success sinse 2010, and if the low bounce is that tough on his knees, why risk it? With a decent late HC season, he is a big favourite finishing YE1 anyway. But of course, if he reach that final, or even wins it......
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Im a health freak myself and totally support his gluten free thing. I believe its really good against inflammation and injuries and a reason how he for so long been so consistent and injury free! Same w milk products(except coletstrum and raw milk). He eats eggs, thats good. Some raw eggs in the smoothie is like a vitamin bomb. It is possible to get enough protein without eating meat, but its much more difficult. Meat is such an easy way to get it. But its possible. But he needs more workout for sure. Will maybe help for his injuries too, use power from muscle rather than joints.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Well said and couldn't agree more.
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I think he will have the lets have a go and see. After 2010, he did get to Wimbledon 2011 final, with a much tougher draw, in form Del Potro, and a much better version of Murray compared to 2010, despite Murray losing his way in that match, he just got beat by a GOATing Djokovic. As for the other years, yes, he has under performed, and I think somewhere inside, it annoys him, being the competitor he is, he probably feels he has unfinished business there, even if that means have a more respectful loss by his ATG standards. And I do think he does not want Federer to pull ahead again, because there is a real danger the gap can go back to four in a month. Slam count is more important at this stage, the YE1 will take care of itself.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Watching Lucas now vs Paire. His serve is better and better match by match. Playing and winning TBs. Better returner than Federer I would think. Lucas has a chance vs Fed.Maybe, but these BP's is something else. 7 of 7 missed in third set, and 1 of 1 to Haas. His return is good enough to get him to 7 BP's in third set, but he cant convert. Its almost as if he doesnt want to.
I like Pouilles game, but i dont think he can hurt Roger, especially in BO5's.
Lucas er halvt finsk og nærmeste vi kommer en viking blant top spillere
Men Lucas har et spill som er morsomt å se på! Jeg tenkte faktisk du var norsk... Jonas. Men torde ikke å spørre. Er ett par nordmenn her inne, og en kvinne
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Well, I am certified personal trainer, and nutritionist and competitive muscle and fitness model, so I know a thing or two about nutrition. Yes, meat is an easy way to get all nine essential amino acids, but with supplementation these days, even if you are vegetarian, it is not that difficult to get them from non-meat products. And Djokovic I believe is having eggs and fish again, so he is easily getting everything he needs. He probably just needs higher concentrations of CLA, which he can supplement.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Yes, I have no hesitation about Novak having the information available for getting his nutrition. With so little bodyfat he will build fast! Dont think it will take long time if he goes for it. I have similar bodytype and I build fast. Cant gain much fat so if I want some curves I have to get it in other ways. In the beginning it goes fast.
Very much this, but is it the smart thing to do? Of course, i dont know exactly what his knee troubles are. I agree it's the slam count his after, but there are three other slams with better chances. Im thinking risk vs winning chances here; 31y old at his worst surface, both regarding injuries and chances. Highly unlikely he will get through the first 3-4 rounds without losing sets like on clay, might be several 4-5 set matches. As a Federer-fan, im aware i sound afraid of a 2008 repetition here
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TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
I hope you are right about Rafa. For sure his type of play now should be more suitable for grass than before. Live and die by his BH until he get used to low bounce FH shots
Hope it doesnt take more than one match At least he probably thinks serving can be pretty cool now! he is a good serve and volley player. Was excellent at the net on clay. If he dear to be super aggressive But if he goes low confidence far back... he is not so fun to watch. Maybe his serve will give him some confidence on grass that can translate into his game.
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Very much this, but is it the smart thing to do? Of course, i dont know exactly what his knee troubles are. I agree it's the slam count his after, but there are three other slams with better chances. Im thinking risk vs winning chances here; 31y old at his worst surface, both regarding injuries and chances. As a Federer-fan, im aware i sound afraid of a 2008 repetition here
Big difference between 2008 and 2017 for these two. Going into Wimbledon 2008 the H2H for the season was Nadal 3 - Federer 0. Going into Wimbledon 2017 the H2H for the season is Nadal 0 - Federer 3. It is the exact opposite, a slam and two masters, this time going Roger's way. In 2008, Federer has zero momentum going into SW19, everything was on Nadal's side, this time round, while both are very good, they are past their primes and Nadal has fallen much further down than Federer on this surface. Conditions are different also, court has a much more enclosed feel than when Fedal last played, when roof was still being built. Federer not vulnerable on the backhand either, Nadal needs to change tactics....Interesting Wimbledon for sure.
Fairly even overall. 2-2 at Miami 2-1 to Fed at IW
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I hope you are right about Rafa. For sure his type of play now should be more suitable for grass than before. Live and die by his BH until he get used to low bounce FH shots
I hear people often say that if Nadal is hitting the FHDTL he is difficult to beat...I tend to disagree a bit. For me, if Nadal is hitting the backhand deep cross court, he is almost impossible to beat on any surface. That is the shot that really makes him unbreakable, and when he starts making those, it is serious trouble for his opponent.
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And Federer converted those wins into titles each of the four times. Nadal only once. Shows how important H2H really is.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
I remember during USO 13 the interviewer talked about his FH, then Rafa said it was the BH that really did it. Part of Rafas problem last year was injury FH side so he had to play more BH, and he got better at it. He played more than 50% BH last year, and thats unusual for him. And now his BH better than in13. He does a better and more secure BH cross court than FH cross court now. But he needs his FH too to be on top, its a very important weapon. But yeah, its difficult for his opponents when his BH and FH are lethal. Little bit like Federer and his better BH too. Rafa has a lot of strength in his right hand since he is a right hander, he has good control of both hands. He really needs his BH too now that he is older and has to shorten points. One BH cross court and he has changed from defense to offense. Its beautiful
Det visste jeg faktisk ikkeWatching Lucas now vs Paire. His serve is better and better match by match. Playing and winning TBs. Better returner than Federer I would think. Lucas has a chance vs Fed.
Lucas er halvt finsk og nærmeste vi kommer en viking blant top spillere
. He is entertaining to watch, but still too inconsistent. Typical for these young guys to play 2-3 good matches, then totally flop in the next, especially in BO5's. I have my doubts Fed and him will meet at Wimbledon. Ny guess; Paire will lose tomorrow.Dont know what to expect from Fed. He reached the SF last year, and was in control vs Milos until he got injured. At the time i thought he would be crushed by Andy if he reached the final, but now im not so sure anymore. If he keeps his AO-IW level, i think he will be better at Wimbledon this year than the last.
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I remember during USO 13 the interviewer talked about his FH, then Rafa said it was the BH that really did it. Part of Rafas problem last year was injury FH side so he had to play more BH, and he got better at it. He played more than 50% BH last year, and thats unusual for him. And now his BH better than in13. He does a better and more secure BH cross court than FH cross court now. But he needs his FH too to be on top, its a very important weapon. But yeah, its difficult for his opponents when his BH and FH are lethal. Little bit like Federer and his better BH too. Rafa has a lot of strength in his right hand since he is a right hander, he has good control of both hands. He really needs his BH too now that he is older and has to shorten points. One BH cross court and he has changed from defense to offense. Its beautiful
See, even Rafa agrees that his money shot is that backhand. I have seen him use that backhand to hit deep cross court penetrating backhands to Federer, Djokovic and Murray, which pulls them out further to their forehand side than they would like, he then steps in and hits his massive in side out forehand to take over the rally, the shot is normally flatter and deeper but it normally ends with him winning more often than not. So, when he gets that shot going, he forces his opponent off their baseline position, steps in, and takes over.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
@TheGhostOfAgassi, @Hitman and @NoleFam, thanks for turning this thread into a very balanced one. A thread which should have easily descended into fanboyism from the moment I read the title.
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TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Last year Lucas reached QF in USO and Wimbledon. He is 23 years old and a great talent, most improved player by the ATP last year. He is a good clay courter too. He is so near in a way beating top guys (he beat Rafa last year in USO). He played the best match imo in RG(of all matches I saw) which he unfortunately ran out of gas and lost in 5th set. He needs to get to be a better front runner, but he can play good under pressure if he is under. I hope he can take the last step and get up there!Det visste jeg faktisk ikke
Dont know what to expect from Fed. He reached the SF last year, and was in control vs Milos until he got injured. At the time i thought he would be crushed by Andy if he reached the final, but now im not so sure anymore. If he keeps his AO-IW level, i think he will be better at Wimbledon this year than the last.
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mike danny
Bionic Poster
Only if you look at the finals. He faced different final opponents because of how the draws were made. Examples: 2004 USO final vs Hewitt - faced him in the semis in 2005, 2006 USO final vs Roddick - faced him in the QF in 2007, 2007 USO final vs Nole - faced him in the semis in 2008.
So he faced some guys more than once, just not in multiple finals because of the draw factor.
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@TheGhostOfAgassi, @Hitman and @NoleFam, thanks for turning this thread into a very balanced one. A thread which should have easioy descended into fanboyidsm from the moment I read the title.
It isn't the first time we've done it either.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Regarding the premise of this thread, how is Fed's record skewed towards HC, since HC cover half the majors and 70% of the ATP tour?
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
... When it comes to Federer I believe he has more competition than last year. But then again, he is better than last year.. maybe it will even out. BUT- We dont really know his grass court game as I believe his "new" game is best on HC, not grass. His return is not better since last year in general, which will be exposed easier on grass.Det visste jeg faktisk ikke
Dont know what to expect from Fed. He reached the SF last year, and was in control vs Milos until he got injured. At the time i thought he would be crushed by Andy if he reached the final, but now im not so sure anymore. If he keeps his AO-IW level, I think he will be better at Wimbledon this year than the last.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Feds game is brilliant on HC now. The perfect game for a man of his ageRegarding the premise of this thread, how is Fed's record skewed towards HC, since HC cover half the majors and 70% of the ATP tour?
So quite "economic" for his body to do it this way if he wants to win a lot of tournaments. Better for HC than grass. Why perfection on grass when its only a month a year? let the younger take care of that. (many of them have actually a better grass game than HC! So Federer has an even better shot at HC now)(dont want to get into a surface discussion, I covered that earlier in the thread
)
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Good times! Thank you @Hitman and @NoleFam. So nice with some decent people@TheGhostOfAgassi, @Hitman and @NoleFam, thanks for turning this thread into a very balanced one. A thread which should have easily descended into fanboyism from the moment I read the title.
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His return will be exposed, but his slice will become venomous also. Only Nadal is immune to Federer's deadly slice on grass, or an absolute GOATing Djokovic.
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TheGhostOfAgassi
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Do you think people are ready for another Fedal fight?
probably... I kind of wish someone else would step up Bring on the slice Fed! hehe
But how can Rafa beat Federer now?
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Do you think people are ready for another Fedal fight?
Bring on the slice Fed! hehe
But how can Rafa beat Federer now?
Well, I am not saying Fedal is a 100% certainty, but for sure a probable scenario this year, especially if Murrovic continue to under perform and Zverev and co just do not step it up.
Fed won't be using that slice on Nadal, that is for sure! It will be top spin drive backhands.
Nadal will have to be uber aggressive in the match, counter punching will simply not work. Federer will be much more content this time round to play from the back, instead of doing suicide runs into the net and getting passed. He trusts his backhand to hold up now. Nadal needs to angle those cross court backhands, keep them short, but pacy, so pulling Federer off the baseline. He also needs to inject more pace into his over rally shot and lower the net clearance. Variations on serve, do not always go into backhand and do not be so predictable with serves to the forehand on big points...Federer can read those now. More attacks into the body, both with serves and ground strokes to kill off angles that Federer can produce, and venture to net whenever possible. Show Roger, he is comfortable up there, so Federer doesn't float balls back from defensive positions.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Such a good analysis!
Federer built up some serious confidence vs Rafa now too, and this time maybe play in Federers livingroom. Will be very tough mentally for Rafa if the match happens. Its extra nice w Moya at the bench. Has to serve like he has never done before. Also made Rafa flatten out shots a bit. Wish Rafa had added him before Waited so long. So stubborn.Similar threads
