BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Whose tennis resume would you rather have? Nobody chooses Nadal's career over Fed's-- probably not even Nadal himself.
SoBad
G.O.A.T.
Carsomyr
Legend
ok
SoBad
G.O.A.T.
ok fein
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
Gursky's large format photos of shopping aisles remind me of Nadal's cross court attacks on Federer's backhand. There is always more where those came from and for that reason OP is wrong, but as was said in another thread recently, the Nutella never runs out.
Both players have holes in their resumes.
Federer's biggest hole is his H2H deficiency to nadal. And these losses didn't just happen in masters or smaller events, well they did, but they also happened at the slams where it counts the most. Now people will be quick to dismiss the losses at the FO, but the 2008 Wimbledon loss is the KO blow for Federer. After Nadal made a mockery of Federer at the FO in 08, the script should have been to get his revenge over Nadal at Wimbledon. That's what Sampras used to do. So to see Federer looking dejected in the dark at Wimbledon after that loss is etched into tennis history. The same for the AO 09 final, a chance to get revenge. So to see Federer looking shattered and weeping after that loss too, again, etched into tennis history. GOAT contenders are expected to win these matches against their nemesis, not lose three straight. And don't worry Nadal, you're next. These losses to Ndal, put them down to whatever you want, mismatch issues (which is baloney), mental, moonballs, whatever...they happened...and if you're staking a claim to be the best ever, then you simply cannot have these demerit points against your name. And AO 17 changes nothing. The horse bolted yonks ago.
As for Nadal, gaping holes are consecutive losses to Djokovic at W, USO and AO before his pet event came to rescue him again. Second hole, too many FOs not enough of everything else. He chose to dominate the least significant slam of the 3 traditional ones where dominating Wimbledon and the USO would have given him more aura. Three losses in the final at the 4th slam have not helped either.
IMO, Djokovic is the best of the three in this era. Beats them both when it really matters, superior H2H when it matters and when it does not, plus the Djokovic slam, and he's still got time up his sleeve to do alot more.
This current era championship is still very much up for grabs.
Federer's biggest hole is his H2H deficiency to nadal. And these losses didn't just happen in masters or smaller events, well they did, but they also happened at the slams where it counts the most. Now people will be quick to dismiss the losses at the FO, but the 2008 Wimbledon loss is the KO blow for Federer. After Nadal made a mockery of Federer at the FO in 08, the script should have been to get his revenge over Nadal at Wimbledon. That's what Sampras used to do. So to see Federer looking dejected in the dark at Wimbledon after that loss is etched into tennis history. The same for the AO 09 final, a chance to get revenge. So to see Federer looking shattered and weeping after that loss too, again, etched into tennis history. GOAT contenders are expected to win these matches against their nemesis, not lose three straight. And don't worry Nadal, you're next. These losses to Ndal, put them down to whatever you want, mismatch issues (which is baloney), mental, moonballs, whatever...they happened...and if you're staking a claim to be the best ever, then you simply cannot have these demerit points against your name. And AO 17 changes nothing. The horse bolted yonks ago.
As for Nadal, gaping holes are consecutive losses to Djokovic at W, USO and AO before his pet event came to rescue him again. Second hole, too many FOs not enough of everything else. He chose to dominate the least significant slam of the 3 traditional ones where dominating Wimbledon and the USO would have given him more aura. Three losses in the final at the 4th slam have not helped either.
IMO, Djokovic is the best of the three in this era. Beats them both when it really matters, superior H2H when it matters and when it does not, plus the Djokovic slam, and he's still got time up his sleeve to do alot more.
This current era championship is still very much up for grabs.
Candide
Hall of Fame
Federer better than Nadal!
Fixed up the typo in your title. As Blocker pointed out Federer has holes in his resume but anyone who didn't wouldn't be a human being - they'd be a cyborg with total domination in every facet and multiple CYGS and 100% percentages etc. etc. So if that's not realistic the next most sane option is the person with smallest holes in their resume. I can't think of anyone within cooee of Federer in all of the metrics that matter. History doesn't give a toss about esoterics like head to heads. As good as Nadal is you could drive a truck through the holes in his career in comparison to Fed. Greater may be on the horizon but if so they're running around in short pants now or not born yet.
Fixed up the typo in your title. As Blocker pointed out Federer has holes in his resume but anyone who didn't wouldn't be a human being - they'd be a cyborg with total domination in every facet and multiple CYGS and 100% percentages etc. etc. So if that's not realistic the next most sane option is the person with smallest holes in their resume. I can't think of anyone within cooee of Federer in all of the metrics that matter. History doesn't give a toss about esoterics like head to heads. As good as Nadal is you could drive a truck through the holes in his career in comparison to Fed. Greater may be on the horizon but if so they're running around in short pants now or not born yet.
SoBad
G.O.A.T.
can you stay in your place or do i need to give you a point finger?
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Federer is better than Nagal.
SoBad
G.O.A.T.
Id rather have nadals any day. Achieved more when his main rivals were at or close go their peak and achived olympic singles gold.
Id probably have djokovics career over federers as well. Federers eternal problem is that for at least half of his career he ayed third fiddle to nadal and djokovic as reflected in major wins and an inferior h2h against both men since 2008 when both became mature all court players.
Candide
Hall of Fame
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LMAO Fed OWNED Djokovic up until 2013 onward when he had a bad back and was 31 years old +... and only by 2016 had Djokovic led the H2H. Djokovic literally has nothing on Fed but 6 extra masters and 1 extra AO (4 less Wimbledons, 3 less USO)
Nadal achieved less because he lost to so many MUGS during his prime. Murrayx2, Ferrerx2, Tsonga, Gonzalez, Youzny, Washed up Hewitt, Rosol, Darcis, Krygios, Brown etc.
And what did Nadal achieve when his rivals were at their peak? 3 RG in 05 - 07. 1 RG in 2011, 1 RG in 2012. ZERO slams outside RG when Federer (04-07) and Djokovic (11-12, 15-16RG) were at their peak. Nadal was owned by Djokovic, thoroughly at his peak. Federer tied Nadal during his peak of 04-07.
Also Fed didn't play second fiddle to anyone... he's 5-6 years older than the above players so their primes didn't overlap. Once he was past his best by 08 Nadal was able to beat him as he was at his peak. 06 Fed wouldn't lose to Nadal at Wimbledon in a million years.
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Stop being a bitter cry baby. Facts are facts. Since 2008 nadal and djokovix have won more than federer. And have superjor h2h . Its just the way it is. U can try and say every loss federer has is irrelevant but it just makes you look very bitter.
I can understand pathetic trolls like yourself clinging on to the 23-12 for dear life as it's literally all you have left as Federer owns Nadal in every other aspect. But the 23-22 that Nole only gained against an old man last year? LOL
I don't give a **** about 2008.. Fed has been winning grand slams since 03... and has won more than either other player in his career.
Service Ace
Hall of Fame
Federer is the GOAT. Nuff said, NO EXCUSES
KineticChain
Hall of Fame
roger federer
Lol calm down. U just lost the argument by your own contradictions. Fact is federer chose to prolong his career he cant say for a decade he was past his prime so every defeat doesnt count. He should have gone out like borg did if he had your attitude. Thankfully federer himself isnt a whining fan boy like you!
I didn't contradict anything. Fed is STILL the GOAT if he had retired straight after 2010 AO.
Playing on for so long meant that Djokovic was able to reverse the H2H and Nadal was able increase his lead by a lot, but it also meant 2 extra GS, breaking the weeks at number 1 record, more titles, more GS finals etc. All of which are 1000 times more important than the meaningless H2H stat.
LOL shut the **** up pathetic troll.
Im aftaid you have contradicted yourself. You us age as an excuse but fail to see nadal and djokovic could well surpass federers tally so any goat discussion is redundant. Sorry but thats just fact mate. Best suck it up and deal
Most if whom reside in switzerland.......
D
Deleted member 743561
Guest
Every Batman needs a nemesis. Fed absorbed the blows, and emerged victorious. Now the sport of tennis... hopefully the damage Nadal's inflicted there can be healed.
Two great players, Roger being five years older. Overall, Federer's record is better than Nadal:
Wimbledon titles 7-2 Federer
US Open titles 5-2 Federer
Australian Open titles 5-1 Federer
YEC 6-0 Federer
French Open 9-1 Nadal
(and an Olympic Gold in singles)
I'd rather have Federer's spread of titles personally. He dominated Wimbledon and the US Open. Nadal dominated just the French and his GS total is a little too clay-heavy. He hasn't successfully defended a Slam title away from Roland Garros and it's been years since he had a really good showing at Wimbledon too, with his recent record littered with early losses.
Nadal has a healthy H2H lead alright. There's no doubt Rafa had a psychological grip on Roger for a long time in big matches. That's why I don't say out and out that Roger is the greatest ever. He's up there in the top tier however, along with Laver, and maybe Gonzales. Roger has a strong claim to be best ever, I'll leave it that.
He definitely should have beaten Rafa at the AO prior to 2017 for instance and never took Rafa to five sets on Paris clay. That's a dent in his resume rather than a hole though. A hole would be if Roger had never won the French for instance or if he'd never beaten Nadal on clay at all, which he has.
We'll see if Rafa can emulate Roger's GS winning longevity in due course...
Wimbledon titles 7-2 Federer
US Open titles 5-2 Federer
Australian Open titles 5-1 Federer
YEC 6-0 Federer
French Open 9-1 Nadal
(and an Olympic Gold in singles)
I'd rather have Federer's spread of titles personally. He dominated Wimbledon and the US Open. Nadal dominated just the French and his GS total is a little too clay-heavy. He hasn't successfully defended a Slam title away from Roland Garros and it's been years since he had a really good showing at Wimbledon too, with his recent record littered with early losses.
Nadal has a healthy H2H lead alright. There's no doubt Rafa had a psychological grip on Roger for a long time in big matches. That's why I don't say out and out that Roger is the greatest ever. He's up there in the top tier however, along with Laver, and maybe Gonzales. Roger has a strong claim to be best ever, I'll leave it that.
He definitely should have beaten Rafa at the AO prior to 2017 for instance and never took Rafa to five sets on Paris clay. That's a dent in his resume rather than a hole though. A hole would be if Roger had never won the French for instance or if he'd never beaten Nadal on clay at all, which he has.
We'll see if Rafa can emulate Roger's GS winning longevity in due course...
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
For a clay court player , it is amazing what Rafa has managed to achieve playing the same way across all surfaces
What are you even talking about now? Age is an excuse/reason for losing yes, players decline with age. Nadal and Djokovic are 5 and 6 years younger than Fed... Had Federer retired after 2010 AO or 2012 Wimbledon he'd have a clear winning record over Djokovic and a better H2H with Nadal. Playing on means 1-2 more grand slam, more masters, more weeks at number 1, more titles, more GS finals at the expense of his H2H vs two guys 5-6 years younger than him. You're essentially saying H2H is more important than actual grand slam titles LOL.
Where's the contradiction?
Fed= GOAT
If Nadal and Djokovic manage to surpass his records they'll be the GOATs too. I predict they won't but at this moment in time, Fed has earned the right to GOAT status.
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Not when they were in their prime. Beating them now is like that saying "a day late and a dollar short", lol. Nice try, though.
http://i.imgur.com/aIWMm.gif
A lot of Federer fans are on cloud 9 because of this guy.
https://twitter.com/rogerfederer/status/833098862218797056/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
Sysyphus
Talk Tennis Guru
Do you have a feeling it won't be the guy with the elegant strokes?
No he has not . Its not that simple as he has such a poor record against nadal and djokovic. He has just won a major so the argument he had declined post 2008 no longer washes. It now looks like he mivjt have stayed his normal level and had to wait for a washed up nadal and tired out of form djokovic to get back to winning ways.
Nonody ages at same rate. Borg quit at 26 as he felt he was in decline. Dimitrov it could be argued is just startinf!
Federer winning AO 17 doesn't change the fact that his level is nowhere at his prime level, except for his serve.
Djokovic only took over the H2H last year and has never dominated Federer. Had they been the same age Fed would very likely dominate their H2H.
Nadal and Djokovic are 5 and 6 years younger than Fed. They're not the same generation. Your H2H is a nothing argument.
Its not just h2h its the fact that for a decade federer has been way behind in terms of major titles won. Question is why?
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Federer has never been behind Nadal or Djokovic in terms of majors won.
Ohhh you mean arbitrarily from 2008? He turned 30 in 2011, was already declining from 2008 and he had to compete with 2 ATG players both 5 and 6 years younger than him.
That should be pretty obvious to anyone with the ability to count and use logic.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Number of slams after 26 for Nadal: 3.
When nadal and djokovic peaked fexerer stopped winning regularly. Therefore he is third on goat list quite obviously behind is two nemesis.
