Flat Hitters: Open pattern to add spin or close pattern to accentuate flat shots?

[JackB1]

Wondering what the overall opinion on this is?

If you are a naturally flattish hitter, do you go for a racquet that will give you more spin, like a super open patter or even just a regular 16x19 or....

do you go for a racquet that allows you to hit flat with control, like a 18x20 pattern?

I have heard both sides of the argument on this and would like to hear more opinions on what is the best move here.

 

[LeeD]

Wouldn't that depends on the specific needs of the player?
Flat hitters who constantly go for winners might want more string for more control, while hitting flat fast balls.
Flat hitters who depend on rallying to win points might want fewer strings to enhance their spin, like slow the ball a little, to be able to sustain longer rallies.
By the way, got some good hitting with Hank last week. He hit's more solid and consistent with his g/f's racket than his own PrinceOSRedLS with spin tech.

 

[sma1001]

Great question. I am a relatively flat hitter and I have both patterns in different racquets. I find i adjust to, and enjoy, each. However, if pushed to have one only pattern I think i'd default to 16*19, if only for the higher launch and spin which I think gives me a fraction more margin for error to both get the ball over the net and to bring the ball down into court. But it's a pretty marginal thing because (as has been said elsewhere) you can get good spin with an 18*20 (I do on my IGPMP) and suffer fewer "flyers". I just think that sometimes i can be hitting so flat that an 18*20 pattern launch angle means i'm hitting the tape more than i'd like. Not much in it though.

PS: Those inclined to tell me that i should stick to one racquet are absolutely correct. It's (for me) just fun to mix it up a little. One day i will reach perfection...

 

[ringwraith]

I don't think super open patterns work for flat hitters. Until 16*19 might work though if the headsize is not too big (>95). Greater than 100 sq. inch with a 16*19 won't work for a flat hitter who hits with enough racquet head speed.

 

[ed70]

Maybe tinker with strings before changing to a more open pattern

 

[Govnor]

I've had this thought before (as a pretty flat hitter). I don't know the answer!! Like Lee says, probably depends on the type of player we're talking about. I've played with a 16x19 Volkl for a while now and recently got to hit a couple of times with a 18x20 Six.one. I don't know how much is the stick itself or the pattern, but the 18x20 gives a lot of confidence with flat shots, you get a lot of depth (naturally) and my flat serve is just more consistent and feels more predictable. I could see myself switching.

 

[nirianto]

16x20 for me is a good compromise...playing my best tennis with PK5G + Cyclone at 48/46

 

[dje31]

I've been toying with this in my mind, but haven't committed yet.

I typically have two matched racquets in my bag right now, but at slightly different tensions, depending on how I'm hitting that day.

I have a few demos in mind which have the option of both 16x19 and 18x20. I've used both string patterns in the past, with good success.

I'm thinking, if I were to switch, instead of tweaking tension on the same string pattern as I have in the past, possibly getting one 16x19 and one 18x20 of the otherwise identical sticks.

 

[WhiteStripes]

Prefer the feel of a 16x19, but play much more effective with more control and confidence in going for my shots with my Strike 18x20 compared to my Strike 16x19, both modified exactly except for the string pattern. But like another poster, the 16x20 pattern in the Pure Storms/Control, Fischer MPro/Pacific XForce, and Ki5s is by far my favorite pattern.

 

[ultradr]

I'm also trying out 16x20. I did not feel like I need to adjust for 16x20 coming from 18x20 so far (I needed conscious adjustment with 16x19).

This 16x20 I'm trying right now happens to be Yonex by the way (VCORE tour 97), which is "supposedly" known for its spin capability.

 

[JackB1]

16x20 for me is a good compromise...playing my best tennis with PK5G + Cyclone at 48/46

16x20 is really not much different than 18x20. Just 2 extra crosses and if they spread them out on the ends, the inside squares where you hit will be the same size.

 

[JackB1]

I'm also trying out 16x20. I did not feel like I need to adjust for 16x20 coming from 18x20 so far (I needed conscious adjustment with 16x19).

This 16x20 I'm trying right now happens to be Yonex by the way (VCORE tour 97), which is "supposedly" known for its spin capability.

There won't really be any adjustment necessary.

 

[MAPE]

My 2 cents

Go for 18x20 and a thing gauge soft textured poly @ 55-57 lbs (mid plus), and you will have the best of two worlds, I promise !! I'm a flat hitter and open string pattern does not work well at all compared to closed pattern since as a flat hitter I need control more than spin. My opinion.

 

[JackB1]

My 2 cents

Go for 18x20 and a thing gauge soft textured poly @ 55-57 lbs (mid plus), and you will have the best of two worlds, I promise !! I'm a flat hitter and open string pattern does not work well at all compared to closed pattern since as a flat hitter I need control more than spin. My opinion.

^^^^^^
I tend to agree with this line of thinking. MAPE I noticed a 99S in your sig. Don't you struggle with that thing?

Do you think it's because open patterns tend to be more "launchy" and powerful?

As far as spin goes, I don't get any noticeable spin increase when going from 18x20 to 16x19.

 

[smalahove]

18x16 in a smaller head.

I can flatten out shots with my 6.1 95s when I want, while being able to generate the same kind of moonballs as my 16x16 Princes (or ps 95s).

16x15 works great in the PS 95s, esp. if you like to generate your own pace. Flat shots with pace need more work then on the 6.1 95s, but the control is epic, esp. dropshots and fh/bh slices with varying length. I contribute that to the frame though, and not the pattern. Control with the Prince Tour Pro 100 ESP and Tour 98 ESP is mediocre, compared to the PS 95s.

 

[SpinToWin]

it depends on the frame.

 

[SOY78]

I am a semi flat hitter and played with the Volkl C10 Pro Tour in the recent past which were 16x19.
That is until my friend let me try his Head Prestige which was 18x20.
The rest is history. I bought 5 prestiges of my own and haven't looked back.
There is less action on the ball but my consistency with flat shots has gone up two fold.
The 16x19 gives you more spin and flat shots weren't that controllable. With 18x20 prestige and 18g string it has both great spin of my old Volkls and control of the tight string pattern.

 

[MAPE]

^^^^^^
I tend to agree with this line of thinking. MAPE I noticed a 99S in your sig. Don't you struggle with that thing?

Do you think it's because open patterns tend to be more "launchy" and powerful?

As far as spin goes, I don't get any noticeable spin increase when going from 18x20 to 16x19.

Yes, the 99s was an experiment that did not work out. I keep it just for fun! With an open string pattern and a big frame you need to string really tight. Nonetheless the launch is too unpredictable for my taste. I've tried so many racquets, strings and tensions, and all I can say is that Wilson Nblade MP, strung with Tier 1 FireWire 1.25 @ 56 lbs, total weight 346 g, balance 31.9 is the ****!!!

 

[Power Player]

I am a semi flat hitter and played with the Volkl C10 Pro Tour in the recent past which were 16x19.
That is until my friend let me try his Head Prestige which was 18x20.
The rest is history. I bought 5 prestiges of my own and haven't looked back.
There is less action on the ball but my consistency with flat shots has gone up two fold.
The 16x19 gives you more spin and flat shots weren't that controllable. With 18x20 prestige and 18g string it has both great spin of my old Volkls and control of the tight string pattern.

With the 18 gauge string do you notice any change in trajectory? I was considering thinner gauges in my Prestige.

 

[SOY78]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A little change yes, but not to the point that it is very hard to adjust to it.
I just bought a used Prestige Pro also just to try the 16x19 prestige.
Will report back my findings when I get the new grommets installed and a fresh string job put in

 

[Power Player]

Sorry, posted in wrong thread.

 

[ultradr]

I am a semi flat hitter and played with the Volkl C10 Pro Tour in the recent past which were 16x19.
That is until my friend let me try his Head Prestige which was 18x20.
The rest is history. I bought 5 prestiges of my own and haven't looked back.
There is less action on the ball but my consistency with flat shots has gone up two fold.
The 16x19 gives you more spin and flat shots weren't that controllable. With 18x20 prestige and 18g string it has both great spin of my old Volkls and control of the tight string pattern.

Which version of prestige if I may ask?

I've been playing with prestige mp for last decade or so but I'm recently experimenting
with others. Main reason is actually Federer's switch to a frame with bigger head.
Federer is 33 and switched to 97 sq in head frame and who am I who still play with smaller frame ?
I really hope Head produce prestige MP with true 98 sq in head size....

 

[SpinToWin]

Which version of prestige if I may ask?

I've been playing with prestige mp for last decade or so but I'm recently experimenting
with others. Main reason is actually Federer's switch to a frame with bigger head.
Federer is 33 and switched to 97 sq in head frame and who am I who still play with smaller frame ?
I really hope Head produce prestige MP with true 98 sq in head size....

You cannot even see the difference between two square inches in head size…. By the way, the RF97 is closer to a 95.5 square inch racquet according to some measurements. Just stick to what is working… Or tail-weight a Blade 98...

 

[tlm]

16x20 is really not much different than 18x20. Just 2 extra crosses and if they spread them out on the ends, the inside squares where you hit will be the same size.

I don't get what you are saying here. To me there is quite a difference between a 16x20 vs a 18x20. There are 2 extra mains in the 18x20 with the same amount of x's. With the added mains it definitely tightens up the pattern which makes it quite a bit different than the 16x20.

 

[juan carzola]

I don't get what you are saying here. To me there is quite a difference between a 16x20 vs a 18x20. There are 2 extra mains in the 18x20 with the same amount of x's. With the added mains it definitely tightens up the pattern which makes it quite a bit different than the 16x20.

I agree with this. The spacing of 18 mains is simply more dense and makes for a tighter string pattern. Not sure why there's any debate over that. The trajectory of a ball off a 16x20 Pacific X-Force Pro is different to an 18x20 Pacific X-Force Pro for instance.

 

[JackB1]

I agree with this. The spacing of 18 mains is simply more dense and makes for a tighter string pattern. Not sure why there's any debate over that. The trajectory of a ball off a 16x20 Pacific X-Force Pro is different to an 18x20 Pacific X-Force Pro for instance.

Depends on the racquet. I have a 16x20 Si98, a 16x19 Pure Strike and a
18x20 Prestige and they all have roughly the same size squares in the center drill pattern of the racquet.

The 2 XForce racquets you mention have an obvious difference between them because they are the same model, with 2 different patterns, so it makes sense that they would be noticeably different.

My point was that there are some 16x20s that can be very similar to some 18x20s depending on how the mains are spaced.

 

[Muppet]

I'm faithful to the Dunlop 200 series, which has 18x20. But with them doing different things with their racquets, next time I may go for a 16x20 just so I can always get two main strings from a single set when hybriding.

 

[tlm]

I agree with this. The spacing of 18 mains is simply more dense and makes for a tighter string pattern. Not sure why there's any debate over that. The trajectory of a ball off a 16x20 Pacific X-Force Pro is different to an 18x20 Pacific X-Force Pro for instance.

Exactly to me the difference between a 16x19 And 16x20 is not really noticable. But there is always a big difference when going from a 16 main racket to an 18 main.

 

[juan carzola]

some 16x20s that can be very similar to some 18x20s

Such as?

*rolleyes*

 

[JackB1]

Exactly to me the difference between a 16x19 And 16x20 is not really noticable. But there is always a big difference when going from a 16 main racket to an 18 main.

in the same model, yes of course. But it's about the spacing in the center....not the # of mains. Some mfgs space them very close to the sides and some leave a large open space on the sides.

 

[JackB1]

Such as?

*rolleyes*

The Yonex Si98 or Xi98. Hold that next to the 18x20 Graphene
Prestige MP and you won't see a difference in the center.

 

[ultradr]

Exactly to me the difference between a 16x19 And 16x20 is not really noticable. But there is always a big difference when going from a 16 main racket to an 18 main.

Maybe it was just racquet then. My main is 18x20 Prestige. When I tried Volkl C10 pro 16x19, the launch angle was clearly higher.
But Yonex VCore 97 (330) 16x20 did not give me such a high launch angle and I did not
need adjustments in my swing.

 

[coloskier]

Wondering what the overall opinion on this is?

If you are a naturally flattish hitter, do you go for a racquet that will give you more spin, like a super open patter or even just a regular 16x19 or....

do you go for a racquet that allows you to hit flat with control, like a 18x20 pattern?

I have heard both sides of the argument on this and would like to hear more opinions on what is the best move here.

I would think an open pattern would tend to turn a racket into a trampoline if you are a flat hitter.

 

[LeeD]

Depends.
Flat hitters with long fast swings might need the closed pattern.
Flat hitters with short, direct slow swings might use the open patterns to add some control and spin.
Not all flat hitters swing the same.
I know, for most slicer dicers, low tension is preferable.

 

[tlm]

in the same model, yes of course. But it's about the spacing in the center....not the # of mains. Some mfgs space them very close to the sides and some leave a large open space on the sides.

There could be some from the spacing but I have always noticed a big difference when going to a 18 main racket, to me completely different feel, launch angle, spin production and power level.

 

[Shroud]

in the same model, yes of course. But it's about the spacing in the center....not the # of mains. Some mfgs space them very close to the sides and some leave a large open space on the sides.

Yep.

Here is a thread detailing it all. Look at post #16. 18x20, 16x19, etc are essentially meaningless...

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=504151&highlight=density

 

[tlm]

Yep.

Here is a thread detailing it all. Look at post #16. 18x20, 16x19, etc are essentially meaningless...

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=504151&highlight=density

This is the kind of nonsense that just makes me wonder what some are thinking. There is always a meaningful difference when going from a 18 main racket to a 16 main.

You would have to have no feeling to not be able to tell the difference. When I use a 16 main racket I usually use at least 60 lbs. of string tension, but when I use an 18 main racket I barely go over 50 lbs. to get similair power and control as the 16 set up. So that would be considered by me as a meaningful difference.

 

[Shroud]

This is the kind of nonsense that just makes me wonder what some are thinking. There is always a meaningful difference when going from a 18 main racket to a 16 main.

You would have to have no feeling to not be able to tell the difference. When I use a 16 main racket I usually use at least 60 lbs. of string tension, but when I use an 18 main racket I barely go over 50 lbs. to get similair power and control as the 16 set up. So that would be considered by me as a meaningful difference.

It depends on the rackets and the string density. Try reading the thread especially post #16.

Its possible to have a different experience than you did depending on the rackets involved.

I recall a post where the PS85 with its 16/18 pattern was more open than some 16/19 frames.

You simply can't tell from the pattern description....

 

[ed70]

Just moved to the 2014 wilson six one 95 18x20, having tried several open pattern racquets including six one 95s, pro staff 95 and 95s, head youtek extreme pro 2.0, bab pure strike, pro staff 97 and rf97.....I can say from experience there is a noticeable difference moving to the 18x20. I still have some adjustments to make as I am hitting the net tape more often, but wow never hit such a solid ball. Luckily I hit top spin off both sides and this 18x20 allows me to arrow the ball for more clean winners than any other racquet.great for slice too

 

[ShahofTennis]

Flat hitters would first want to have an racquet in the appropriate weight/swingweight class for their RHS. So first and foremost its a matter of stability. Now considering the majority of flat shots must originate from a point lower than the contact point: even a perfect flat shot must at one point gain height. Given the increasing launch angles; as string beds become more open the net clearance will increase up until the point where a flat shot may not be so flat anymore. But because stability and RHS are the more important factors behind a flat shot I would say an 18x20, 16x19, and an 16x20 are pretty much the same except the 18x20 has the lowest LA of the 3(Launch Angle), while the 16x19 has the highest LA of the 3.
I myself don't have a preference since my strokes look and feel the same with any 16x19 or 18x20 I play with, this is because I make adjustments with tension and weight/SW to make all my racquets play like each other.

 

[Backhanded Compliment]

It really depends on the stick...it isnt jsut about string pattern. I use both flat and heavy topspin and chose a stick that provides both, Pacific x feel pro 95. Prestige Pros etc are also good at this. Both are dense in the center 16x19's

 

[dominikk1985]

closed pattern. an open pattern will only help with spin if you Change your swing path and swing fast.

if you want to continue a flat swing use a closed pattern to Keep the Launch angle down.

 

[SpinToWin]

It really depends on the stick...it isnt jsut about string pattern. I use both flat and heavy topspin and chose a stick that provides both, Pacific x feel pro 95. Prestige Pros etc are also good at this. Both are dense in the center 16x19's

This really.

Dense and open is such a relative term. I have an acquaintance who has been using Prestige Mids for years. If you were to give him a Prince Tour 100 18x20, you can bet that he will call the string pattern too open relative to his racquet.

Similarly I use a 16x18 racquet, but it's a PS85. When I get a 16x19 in a 100 square inch racquet, it feels too open and seems to lack precision.

I switched away from the Prestige Pros because their 16x19 string pattern was too dense for me.

Dense and open has more to do with string spacing than anything else, as tension can account for the extra strings most of the time. That is unless you have flawed technique….

 

[PeteUSA]

Poly makes it easy for flat hitters to hit with 16/18 in 100 sq. inch. The poly has to be strung only tighter.

 

[SOY78]

Which version of prestige if I may ask?

I've been playing with prestige mp for last decade or so but I'm recently experimenting
with others. Main reason is actually Federer's switch to a frame with bigger head.
Federer is 33 and switched to 97 sq in head frame and who am I who still play with smaller frame ?
I really hope Head produce prestige MP with true 98 sq in head size....

I play with the PT57A which is the pro stock version of the Pro Tour 280/630.
Also going from a 95 to a 98 is not that noticeable.
I say stay with the prestige and experiment with strings

 

[juan carzola]

Depends on the racquet. I have a 16x20 Si98, a 16x19 Pure Strike and a
18x20 Prestige and they all have roughly the same size squares in the center drill pattern of the racquet.

The trajectory of the ball of the strings and the amount of spin you can generate between a open pattern Pure Strike and a closed pattern Prestige MP are absolutely nothing alike.

 

[JackB1]

The trajectory of the ball of the strings and the amount of spin you can generate between a open pattern Pure Strike and a closed pattern Prestige MP are absolutely nothing alike.

have you actually tried both side by side? Now I don't know about past Prestige MPs, but am talking about the current model.

Again...it's not the pattern that aids the spin, it's the size of the squares in the center of the racquet where you hit the ball. If both are equal on 2 different racquets, spin potential will also be equal. That is if all other variable are constant.

 

[JackB1]

This really.

Dense and open is such a relative term. I have an acquaintance who has been using Prestige Mids for years. If you were to give him a Prince Tour 100 18x20, you can bet that he will call the string pattern too open relative to his racquet.

Similarly I use a 16x18 racquet, but it's a PS85. When I get a 16x19 in a 100 square inch racquet, it feels too open and seems to lack precision.

I switched away from the Prestige Pros because their 16x19 string pattern was too dense for me.

Dense and open has more to do with string spacing than anything else, as tension can account for the extra strings most of the time. That is unless you have flawed technique….

^^^^ somebody gets it

 

[hrstrat57]

I toyed a bit with moving from my beloved Head 18x20 frames to capture a bit more spin. Tho I can and often do hit flat for winners I would not call myself an exclusively flat hitter....I was just looking for a bit more spin for when I wanted more net clearance/safety.

I went so far as actually putting a PDR+ into play for a couple of weeks and I liked the easy power and slightly greater spin potential....then I discovered from a couple of trusted posters here the ideal compromise....thin gauge poly at low tension.

MSV Focus Hex 18 at 42# is the ticket, wicked spin when wanted, flat power as always.....and serves amazing too.

PDR+ in the closet.....

 

[juan carzola]

have you actually tried both side by side? Now I don't know about past Prestige MPs, but am talking about the current model.

Again...it's not the pattern that aids the spin, it's the size of the squares in the center of the racquet where you hit the ball. If both are equal on 2 different racquets, spin potential will also be equal. That is if all other variable are constant.

You do realize that there's a 18x20 Pure Strike? Babolat haven't produced that because the 16x19 Pure Strike plays like the Prestige MP. *rolleyes*

And yes, I've played with every Pure Strike in the range (my son is sponsored by Babolat) and also virtually every MP going back to the PT630.