Has anyone else run into this? What even is the point for them of playing? It's incredibly frustrating as a middle-aged legit middle-of-the-road 4.5 to spend about 4 hours (match + travel both ways) mid-day on a weekend to get blown off the court in an hour by someone who's probably at least a 5.5. It seems like a waste of time for them too.
Good current D2 college players playing USTA 4.5.
- Thread starter Goof
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Kobble
Hall of Fame
It is sports. Some people have no integrity.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
Same experience here in Texas as Atatu, I was one of 3 old guys on a team that had 8 division 2 players on it in their mid 20's at 4.5. We didn't win the city lol, couple older teams that were wiser at doubles beat us out in the end. I can see how it would be frustrating, but the format of 3 doubles should give good "adult" teams a chance at beating a college player heavy younger squad.
Oh, but you said current, that's silly, why are they wasting their time if they are still in college? Had one guy do that, was an opponent in the Texas tri-level final, it was bizarre.
Oh, but you said current, that's silly, why are they wasting their time if they are still in college? Had one guy do that, was an opponent in the Texas tri-level final, it was bizarre.
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TimeToPlaySets
Legend
Most people pay $100/hr to hit with 5.5 players.
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
Have my son hitting with a UTR 12+ for a lot less. Gotta love AZ and those summer college kids.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
Current college players even playing 4.0 in some areas. I mean, I’m not a hater when it comes to sandbagging, but seeing a current college player out there playing an old guy with a knee brace who is junk balling him is something else. Gotta make states however you can I guess.
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
All that said, some D2 schools are not that good and 4.5 may be appropriate. Hard to say.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
I signed up for a 4.5 local tournament, looking forward to playing up against some 4.5s and get some good experience. After that i found out there were a couple 5.0+ in that tournament. They all play single for a nearby D3 school. At one point, its not fun to play up.
Wait until you see who plays 5.0+...
J
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I welcome the chance to play someone that much better than I; where else would I get this opportunity?
wings56
Hall of Fame
This is an understatement. Especially at sectionals
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Been to 5.0 sectionals, got the T-shirt. Going for nationals this year.
Believe in Jolly.
@OnTheLine better come cheer for me.
J
wings56
Hall of Fame
Nationals at 5.0 plus? 18 and over?
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
wings56
Hall of Fame
Good luck!
Former pro???? I have no idea the caliber of a 5.5 player be like.
The reigning champ of my town 4.5 tournament is a former ATP 50 year old pro. No 4.5 could take a set off him.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
OnTheLine
Hall of Fame
I already promised didn't I?
I just took a 1&1 loss at 5.0 to a former 692 atp player. Felt bad he had to drive out for the match.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Right but if you can keep your 5.5s rated 5.0 then you can have some true hustlas on the team with 5.5 ratings. Tell me that you think my buddy who you played at nationals was a 5.0.
J
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
I don't think I am wrong, because I was on a team stocked full of mid 20's pretty much fresh out of division 2 tennis and even though if we got to play 8 singles matches they would easily have beaten every team every week 8-0, the doubles matches didn't go that way and we finished 3rd at the 4.5 level. There is a nuance to doubles that can close the gap in skill, but singles really doesn't offer that. Maybe my experience was a fluke, but I really think there was enough of a sample size to convince me 3 lines of doubles gives some different skill sets a better chance at beating players that would destroy the same players if matched up in singles only matches.
wings56
Hall of Fame
Well absolutely. Same is true at ATP level.
winchestervatennis
Hall of Fame
But aren’t those guys all 7.0s? OP suggested players in question should be 5.5 so they’re playing two levels down. I believe I’d put my money on 5.5 singles specialist paired with even a low 4.5 vs two upper level 4.5 doubles specialists.
And i could be wrong about this, but doesnt D2 play a format where each doubles court is a point vs only a point for majority of doubles like D1 plays? If so, you’d think the D2 5.5 would probably know his way around the doubles court fairly well.
TahoeTennis
Legend
Git gud
I guess my frustration is with the NTRP system. It just seems odd to me that two players with nearly a 6 point gap in UTR could be considered in the same NTRP level for travel team tennis. If I was younger and had more time to play/practice, I'd take it as a challenge to "git gud" enough to hang better with a top notch D2 player half my age, but I'm in my mid-thirties now and can't really play/practice intense singles back-to-back days due to physical limitations and don't have the time to play more than about twice a week anyway. Also probably a little salty that at 36 years old I'm now old enough to face players in Adult leagues who are half my age!
OnTheLine
Hall of Fame
I guess my frustration is with the NTRP system. It just seems odd to me that two players with nearly a 6 point gap in UTR could be considered in the same NTRP level for travel team tennis. If I was younger and had more time to play/practice, I'd take it as a challenge to "git gud" enough to hang better with a top notch D2 player half my age, but I'm in my mid-thirties now and can't really play/practice intense singles back-to-back days due to physical limitations and don't have the time to play more than about twice a week anyway. Also probably a little salty that at 36 years old I'm now old enough to face players in Adult leagues who are half my age!
Wait another few years and when you can face players who are 1/3 your age ... it is even better.
Vox Rationis
Professional
I'm headed to 4.5 districts in a month. Amongst the other 3 teams we are playing against there are 3 top high school seniors in the state (each a UTR 11). Another great high school player (UTR 10). A DII player who plays 2 singles for his school (UTR 10). And a DIII player who plays 3 singles for his (UTR 9). Not to mention all the teaching pros and former college players, several of whom were recently 5.0s. Fair or not, it's pretty common to find those type of guys on 4.5 teams in contention for sectionals/nationals.
Meanwhile my team's average UTR is like a 7 and we have 15 guys below a 4.10 on tennis record. This will be fun.
Meanwhile my team's average UTR is like a 7 and we have 15 guys below a 4.10 on tennis record
. This will be fun.
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J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
I guess my frustration is with the NTRP system. It just seems odd to me that two players with nearly a 6 point gap in UTR could be considered in the same NTRP level for travel team tennis. If I was younger and had more time to play/practice, I'd take it as a challenge to "git gud" enough to hang better with a top notch D2 player half my age, but I'm in my mid-thirties now and can't really play/practice intense singles back-to-back days due to physical limitations and don't have the time to play more than about twice a week anyway. Also probably a little salty that at 36 years old I'm now old enough to face players in Adult leagues who are half my age!
36!!!
You're not old, you are out of shape.
J
It is the USTA's fault for all this... having, incrementally over many years, reduced competitive Amateur tennis to these endless amounts of different, micro age/skill levels where the culture has evolved into.. god-forbid anyone play anyone else that might be a 0.5 Level better or worse.
I am, emphatically, not out of shape (I'm actually in far better shape now than I was at 18). The 18 year old was just a lot better at tennis than me, and when I learned after the match that he was 18, the thought of that made me feel old, psychologically.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I'm headed to 4.5 districts in a month. Amongst the other 3 teams we are playing against there are 3 top high school seniors in the state (each a UTR 11). Another great high school player (UTR 10). A DII player who plays 2 singles for his school (UTR 10). And a DIII player who plays 3 singles for his (UTR 9). Not to mention all the teaching pros and former college players, several of whom were recently 5.0s. Fair or not, it's pretty common to find those type of guys on 4.5 teams in contention for sectionals/nationals.
Meanwhile my team's average UTR is like a 7 and we have 15 guys below a 4.10 on tennis record
If you had to pick a time to play like Federer, this is it!
Good luck!
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
At 36 you're no further from your potential physical peak than an 18 year old.
I'm in my prime.
J
wings56
Hall of Fame
I'm headed to 4.5 districts in a month. Amongst the other 3 teams we are playing against there are 3 top high school seniors in the state (each a UTR 11). Another great high school player (UTR 10). A DII player who plays 2 singles for his school (UTR 10). And a DIII player who plays 3 singles for his (UTR 9). Not to mention all the teaching pros and former college players, several of whom were recently 5.0s. Fair or not, it's pretty common to find those type of guys on 4.5 teams in contention for sectionals/nationals.
Meanwhile my team's average UTR is like a 7 and we have 15 guys below a 4.10 on tennis record
What is UTR supposed to be at 4.5? Men's obviously
BounceHitBounceHit
Legend
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I'm in my prime number.
FiReFTW
Legend
From UTR6 to UTR9
wings56
Hall of Fame
6!? Lol
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
Why is that ? is it cause there just isn't any leagues or teams above 4.5 ? You would think they should at least play 5.0 division. True, that there isn't as many teams in 5.0 division but there are enough players and teams get on if you searched
FiReFTW
Legend
Yes, the lowest 4.5 is utr6.0+
Probably doubles rating and some weak 4.5s moving down or so.
I think ur average legit 4.5 is around UTR8~
4.0 chart also says from 4.5utr to 7.5utr, yet 4.5 starts at 6.0utr.
Its a bit odd.
wings56
Hall of Fame
Thanks for the info
There are only about 300 men rated 5.0 in Texas. If you aren't in one of the five largest cities, you won't have a league.
AtTheNet
New User
Vox Rationis
Professional
There isn't much of a consensus on that. UTR is kind of all over the place within NTRP rating levels. We had a thread about that with a lot of differing opinions on what the range is. https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...utr-to-ntrp-conversion-chart-accurate.622306/
The official UTR conversion chart says 4.5 men is 6.0-8.5 but I'd push that up to 6.0-9.5. That should cover 90% including your good but still appropriately rated college players.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Problem is 4.5 and 5.0 are too wide of a skill gap.
Mid level players crush bottom players and are crushed by top players.
If 4.5 goes from 6-10 and 5.0 goes from 8-13 that's too big of a gap.
J
