Guillermo Coria... Gone forever???

[thalivest]

I never said I was a fan of Kuznetsova. I said she was talented and had a terrible record in finals.

Did you watch any of the '05 Coria/Nadal matches? Nadal had two tight wins over Coria 6-3, 6-1, 0-6, 7-5 in Monte Carlo and 6-4, 3-6, 6-3, 4-6, 7-6 in Rome. I highly doubt he would get mauled by Nadal if they both played in their prime today.

You're discrediting a great clay court player.

Yes I saw the 2005 Coria/Nadal matches. Coria was clearly outplayed in the Monte Carlo final despite that it got more competitive in the latter half, and the Rome final was extremely close with Nadal being too tough and determined in the end. As I said Federer was playing Nadal atleast that close on clay in 2006-2007 when Nadal was already much improved from 2005 so that doesnt exactly impress me much in the big picture. Nadal of 2008-2009 is light years better than Nadal of 2005. Nadal was just getting started in 2005 and was actually fairly vurnerable with a # of losses that year on clay (the last year that would happen) and probably would have lost to Federer in the French Open semis that year if Federer had kept his head together. The Nadal of today would probably maul the Nadal of 2005 on clay, the same Nadal that Coria couldnt even beat at his peak.

The main point I was making is that your statement: Aside from Nadal I don't see anyone really threatening 2003-2005 Coria. is stupid and completely baseless. It even tops your other ridiculous assertion that Djokovic is clearly the best hard court player in the world today. Here are some "facts""

- Coria was 0-2 vs Federer on clay from 2003-2005, Coria's "prime" according to you. So obviously he was "really threatened" by Federer on clay when they met even then, and in fact there is no basis at all for suggesting him being better on clay.

-He lost to Davydenko at the 2005 French Open (again in his 2003-2005 according to you) when Davydenko was merely a top 15 player who had never before made the semis of a grand slam event, and only 1 quarterfinal. Now Davydenko is a top 5 player who has been in 4 grand slam semis and multiple additional quarterfinals. So Coria couldnt beat Davydenko at the French Open then yet he would not be vurnerable to a much stronger Davydenko today, LOL!

Coria of 2003-2005 would not even be the 2nd best clay courter today, he would be around the 4th or 5th if he were lucky and there are many players that would be a threat to beat him. Yeah if he were at his absolute best he would start dominating Robredo again on clay, but that alone wouldnt ensure him much.

I am not disrespecting him. He is what he is. In his prime a very good clay courter, not great, couldnt win the French even amongst a weak field and suffered poor losses at the French Open each year even in his short prime. If the field on clay is weak now it was even weaker than, and at his best he still isnt even in the league of a beast like Nadal on clay, or even Federer who would have won a horde of clay court titles without Nadal. He does not deserve to be recognized as a "great" clay court player, like I said very good, never great. He couldnt even beat Verkerk, Gaudio, or Davydenko at the French Open in his prime, has 2 Masters title on clay for his career, and 1 French Open final. That doesnt qualify anyone as great on a surface. If Coria were great on clay than Federer who has accomplished tons more than Coria ever has on the surface (along with being 2-0 vs prime Coria on it like I said) must be a legend, and I am not even sure if Federer deserves to be considered a great clay courter.

 

[Fintendo]

Coria might not of been as good as Rafa but he was still a fine player in his own right. You silly sausage.

 

[thalivest]

Coria might not of been as good as Rafa but he was still a fine player in his own right. You silly sausage.

Feel free to justify a statement such as Aside from Nadal I don't see anyone really threatening 2003-2005 Coria with some solid reasoning then we can talk. Ripster enjoys making these sort of statements he is ill equiped to back up.

 

[Fintendo]

Don't rag on me man. All I'm saying is Coria was a great player, maybe not the greatest but he was still good, good enough that a lot of people want him to come back. Just because you don't like him and rightly state he wasn't the greatest play in history doesn't mean he wasn't a good solid pro.

 

[Ripster]

Yes I saw the 2005 Coria/Nadal matches. Coria was clearly outplayed in the Monte Carlo final despite that it got more competitive in the latter half, and the Rome final was extremely close with Nadal being too tough and determined in the end. As I said Federer was playing Nadal atleast that close on clay in 2006-2007 when Nadal was already much improved from 2005 so that doesnt exactly impress me much in the big picture. Nadal of 2008-2009 is light years better than Nadal of 2005. Nadal was just getting started in 2005 and was actually fairly vurnerable with a # of losses that year on clay (the last year that would happen) and probably would have lost to Federer in the French Open semis that year if Federer had kept his head together. The Nadal of today would probably maul the Nadal of 2005 on clay, the same Nadal that Coria couldnt even beat at his peak.

The main point I was making is that your statement: Aside from Nadal I don't see anyone really threatening 2003-2005 Coria. is stupid and completely baseless. It even tops your other ridiculous assertion that Djokovic is clearly the best hard court player in the world today. Here are some "facts""

- Coria was 0-2 vs Federer on clay from 2003-2005, Coria's "prime" according to you. So obviously he was "really threatened" by Federer on clay when they met even then, and in fact there is no basis at all for suggesting him being better on clay.

-He lost to Davydenko at the 2005 French Open (again in his 2003-2005 according to you) when Davydenko was merely a top 15 player who had never before made the semis of a grand slam event, and only 1 quarterfinal. Now Davydenko is a top 5 player who has been in 4 grand slam semis and multiple additional quarterfinals. So Coria couldnt beat Davydenko at the French Open then yet he would not be vurnerable to a much stronger Davydenko today, LOL!

Coria of 2003-2005 would not even be the 2nd best clay courter today, he would be around the 4th or 5th if he were lucky and there are many players that would be a threat to beat him. Yeah if he were at his absolute best he would start dominating Robredo again on clay, but that alone wouldnt ensure him much.

I am not disrespecting him. He is what he is. In his prime a very good clay courter, not great, couldnt win the French even amongst a weak field and suffered poor losses at the French Open each year even in his short prime. If the field on clay is weak now it was even weaker than, and at his best he still isnt even in the league of a beast like Nadal on clay, or even Federer who would have won a horde of clay court titles without Nadal. He does not deserve to be recognized as a "great" clay court player, like I said very good, never great. He couldnt even beat Verkerk, Gaudio, or Davydenko at the French Open in his prime, has 2 Masters title on clay for his career, and 1 French Open final. That doesnt qualify anyone as great on a surface. If Coria were great on clay than Federer who has accomplished tons more than Coria ever has on the surface (along with being 2-0 vs prime Coria on it like I said) must be a legend, and I am not even sure if Federer deserves to be considered a great clay courter.

From 2003-2005 Coria was one of the most dominate players on clay. Through that period he had a number of close matches on clay with two of the current best players in the world Federer and Nadal. In '04 he was the clear favourite to win the French but lost a heartbreaker to Gaudio despite having a number of match points. Verkek got hot and played once in a lifetime tennis in 2003 even beating another clay court great Carlos Moya in the quarterfinals.

And no, I do not think Davydenko would consistently beat prime Coria on clay. I'll give you Federer (although they had some very close matches). Aside from Federer and Nadal, who are both going into the history books as legends of the game - I don't see anybody else being more of a threat on clay than 2003-2005 Coria. I stand by my statement.

 

[Fintendo]

I agree. 10 char.