Halle Final (spoilers)

[Docalex007]

Thank you, somebody who actually is not blind to reality.

Well, its a true observation. Since I am in Europe right now, i had the pleasure of watching most of his matches from the Gerry Weber Open. If I were to compare the Fed on grass last year (circa Wimbledon) and Fed this year (Pre-Wimbledon), all i am saying is he is not playing God-like tennis thus far.....do I believe he will get there later in the month.....I have no doubt

 

[The tennis guy]

You make no sense. The match that just finished was between Safin and Federer on grass, thus a current accessment is based partially on Safin's ability on grass.

Well, did you watch the match? Or you simply watch in your head about Safin's history on grass? You can talk about Safin's history on grass before the final all you want. Once the match is played, history meant nothing. It is how they were playing in that match matters. Safin played quite well in that match, and all week long.

 

[The tennis guy]

Well, its a true observation. Since I am in Europe right now, i had the pleasure of watching most of his matches from the Gerry Weber Open. If I were to compare the Fed on grass last year (circa Wimbledon) and Fed this year (Pre-Wimbledon), all i am saying is he is not playing God-like tennis thus far.....do I believe he will get there later in the month.....I have no doubt

Do you think it is fair to compare his play at W last year and his play at GW this year? He had more than three weeks to prepare for grass last year, he had two days.

 

[davey25]

Yes Roger's opponents will always play better against him than they do any other time, on that surface, at that event, whatever. That is why he wont get the results, it will have nothing to do with the fact he just isnt as good as he was last year, and anybody who thinks that is just a troll.

 

[The tennis guy]

Yes Roger's opponents will always play better against him than they do any other time, on that surface, at that event, whatever. That is why he wont get the results, it will have nothing to do with the fact he just isnt as good as he was last year, and anybody who thinks that is just a troll.

Well, I guess that's all you can resort to making grand statement.

He is not as good as last year. Compare to what point last year? If you compare his result at the same point last year, he is about the same, didn't win AUS but did better at RG. His play at GW is as good as he did last year at GW. It is not fair to compare his result at GW this year to W last year. After another week of preparation on grass, then you can compare.

 

[davey25]

He is not as good as last year. Compare to what point last year? If you compare his result at the same point last year, he is about the same, didn't win AUS both did better at RG. His play at GW is as good as he did last year at GW.

Am I reading right, did you just say he didnt win the AUS both this year and last year. My for somebody who seems to potray himself as such a dean of tennis knowledge, this is a glaring error, Roger Federer did win the Australian Open last year. :mrgreen: No his play at the Gerry Weber this year does not even touch his play at the event last year, look at the scores throughout the event compared to last, and you will see their is no comparision, almost every match is a struggle this year.

 

[Docalex007]

Do you think it is fair to compare his play at W last year and his play at GW this year? He had more than three weeks to prepare for grass last year, he had two days.

Of course its "fair" to compare the two. Also, its quite predictable that his play thus far on grass is not up to par with his Wimbledon play last year.....thats common sense of course since he just came off clay and last year at W he had been on grass several weeks. However, giving an assessment or comparison is not exactly a bad thing to do, since it informs us on "where" he is on the Federer progression scale comparing it to his last year.

 

[The tennis guy]

Am I reading right, did you just say he didnt win the AUS both this year and last year. My for somebody who seems to potray himself as such a dean of tennis knowledge, this is a glaring error, Roger Federer did win the Australian Open last year. :mrgreen: No his play at the Gerry Weber this year does not even touch his play at the event last year, look at the scores throughout the event compared to last, and you will see their is no comparision, almost every match is a struggle this year.

Go back read it again.

 

[davey25]

His play at the Halle event is not close to what it was last year, forget about Wimbledon. I fully expect his Wimbledon play also to be down from last year, just as the Wimbledon trophy plate is something he will be handing down as well.

 

[davey25]

Last year Halle was also right after the French wasnt it?

 

[The tennis guy]

....thats common sense of course since he just came off clay and last year at W he had been on grass several weeks.

Unfortunately some people do not have common sense.

 

[davey25]

Unfortunately some people do not have common sense.

Yes like somebody who stated Federer did not win the AO Open this year or last year, and if it was typo, still has not corrected himself. :mrgreen:

 

[The tennis guy]

Last year Halle was also right after the French wasnt it?

He lost early at RG, didn't he? He went further at RG this year. Someone said he isn't doing as well as last year. He played on grass for more than a week before GW last year, while only 2 days this year.

 

[davey25]

Awww, you corrected it by editing your post, clever.

 

[The tennis guy]

Yes like somebody who stated Federer did not win the AO Open this year or last year, and if it was typo, still has not corrected himself. :mrgreen:

Go back read my posting again. BOTH to BUT.

 

[davey25]

Fair enough, at Wimbledon there should be no excuses then, since he will have had sufficient preparation by then. There will be an excuse though, when he loses in the semis or finals his opponent will simply have been "too good".

 

[Docalex007]

His play at the Halle event is not close to what it was last year, forget about Wimbledon. I fully expect his Wimbledon play also to be down from last year, just as the Wimbledon trophy plate is something he will be handing down as well.

I must disagree with you on that one. Regardless of his play now, Federer will play on his best surface in his fav tournament going for 3 in a row. Its one thing to say he's not the favorite at say a FO.....but to say he's doing down at W is clearly intermediate type II sociopathatic behavior.

 

[The tennis guy]

Fair enough, at Wimbledon there should be no excuses then, since he will have had sufficient preparation by then. There will be an excuse though, when he loses in the semis or finals his opponent will simply have been "too good".

I guess you are coming to your sense now. Yes, 3 weeks of preparation for W last year shouldn't make that much of difference to 2 weeks of preparation this year. However, 2-day preparation of GW this year is different.

Judge Federer by the end of the year, judge Nadal by the end of year. Two seminfinal lost at slams this year doesn't mean Federer is bad all sudden; Nadal winning on clay doesn't mean the result will translate to other surfaces.

Look at the difference between commenting on Federer and Nadal, Nadal reaching final at Miami meant he could play on hard court, while Federer winning GW on grass but not in straight sets in all of his matches meant he isn't good anymore.

Just by reading this type of posting, without even looking at Federer's play, I know he is doing quite great!

 

[illuminati817]

davey, and the same goes for all other fed-bashing clones....are you a failed athlete and hate to see someone be great out of sheer envy or is all that pent-up resentment and malintent for the guy coming from elsewhere? Ill tell you the same thing i told twistserve, get some perspective and get your head checked man.

It's people like you why some people (like me) would rather not post on these boards; better not to run into insanity and blatant disregard for common sense.

 

[The tennis guy]

I must disagree with you on that one. Regardless of his play now, Federer will play on his best surface in his fav tournament going for 3 in a row. Its one thing to say he's not the favorite at say a FO.....but to say he's doing down at W is clearly intermediate type II sociopathatic behavior.

I agree. There are a few intermediate type II sociopathatic on this board, in other words, twisted mind.

 

[Grimjack]

Fair enough, at Wimbledon there should be no excuses then, since he will have had sufficient preparation by then. There will be an excuse though, when he loses in the semis or finals his opponent will simply have been "too good".

Don't understand the point. The only reasons player A ever can ever lose to player B are: 1) Player A wasn't good enough, or 2) Player B was too good. It's not a cop-out. It's the way competition works.

In France, Federer wasn't good enough. He was, in many respects, amazing, because he's by no means a natural dirtballer, and still had chances against the Spanish juggernaut. But ultimately, the deciding factor seemed, objectively, to be that he (Fed) wasn't able to get it going. Nadal didn't blow him off the court, he was just more consistent, and let Fed beat himself. (Which is, indeed, often the nature of excellent clay-court play.) It's not a tribute to Nadal, it's not an excuse for Fed. It's what happened, plain and simple.

In Australia, on the other hand, Federer was plenty good enough. But Safin was too good. Fed played more than well enough to beat any player that day -- unless that player happened to be a truly great player who was also playing at the top of his game. I don't see how saying Safin was "too good" on that day comes off as either Federer apologism or as Safin fanboyism. It's just how reality shaped itself that day.

Neither is an excuse; both are real, legitimate analyses. Every match can be described in this way. Where's the beef?

 

[davey25]

Whenever I read people saying Safin is the worlds-second-best player, referring to him in a grass court final in that context, when he is:

a)ranked #4, not #2; #4 in the Champions race as well, not #2. So not even #2 in any official ranking measurement.
b)they are playing on grass where he isnt even in the top ten.

and then gush over Roger's supposably brilliant performance beating the supposably second best opponent Safin in three sets, I actualy take insults from people on this thread a compliment.

 

[Fedubai]

Look, no one cares what Safin's ranking is. That's because he is probably the 2nd most talented player on the planet. It doesn't matter what surface he's on, if his head is in the game it's going to take a great effort to take him down.

 

[davey25]

Yes, surfaces mean nothing. If Nadal were to beat Roddick in tough 3 sets in a clay court tournament, it would be an incredable peformance on Nadal's part, since Roddick is so highly ranked.

 

[illuminati817]

Whenever I read people saying Safin is the worlds-second-best player, referring to him in a grass court final in that context, when he is:

a)ranked #4, not #2; #4 in the Champions race as well, not #2. So not even #2 in any official ranking measurement.
b)they are playing on grass where he isnt even in the top ten.

and then gush over Roger's supposably brilliant performance beating the supposably second best opponent Safin in three sets, I actualy take insults from people on this thread a compliment.

You must know nothing about tennis then, because clearly everyone knows safin is the 2nd best in the world, and his talent-amount is second only to Roger's. But then again, you have problems so nothing better is expected of your thinking as proven by all the ridiculous posts already in this thread.

 

[illuminati817]

"Yes, surfaces mean nothing. "

Surfaces mean nothing? I don't even have to rhetorically ask, you're insane.

 

[The tennis guy]

Whenever I read people saying Safin is the worlds-second-best player, referring to him in a grass court final in that context, when he is:

a)ranked #4, not #2; #4 in the Champions race as well, not #2. So not even #2 in any official ranking measurement.
b)they are playing on grass where he isnt even in the top ten.

and then gush over Roger's supposably brilliant performance beating the supposably second best opponent Safin in three sets, I actualy take insults from people on this thread a compliment.

Safin is in top 4 on grass this year, isn't it?

Who are gushing over Roger's supposably brilliant performance beating the supposably second best opponent Safin in three sets? It is in your own twisted mind mostly.

 

[davey25]

"Yes, surfaces mean nothing. "

Surfaces mean nothing? I don't even have to rhetorically ask, you're insane.

LOL! You are the idiot! I wrote that in a rhetorical context. The fact you could not read that, and recognize that, is amusing to say the least, since a 6-year old probably would have recognized it. :mrgreen:

 

[Fedubai]

Safin is probably 2nd best when he's dedicated.

And davey25, I think you are complicating the simple. I don't think Roddick is as good on clay as Safin is on grass.

 

[slice bh compliment]

To borrow a phrase from Peter Bodo, a lot of you people are 'negative posters'.

 

[davey25]

And davey25, I think you are complicating the simple. I don't think Roddick is as good on clay as Safin is on grass.

Really, except for Safin's quarterfinal in 2001, where he benefitted from a cakewalk draw, his Wimbledon record is basically the same as Roddick's FO record. Roddick has actually won small events on clay, there are not as many events on grass, but Safin has entered his share of small grass court events with weak fields before, and won none. I would say there isnt much difference between the two on their worst surface up until now.

 

[The tennis guy]

Yes, surfaces mean nothing. If Nadal were to beat Roddick in tough 3 sets in a clay court tournament, it would be an incredable peformance on Nadal's part, since Roddick is so highly ranked.

Actually is was true. Nadal beat Roddick in tough 4 sets in last year's Davis Cup on clay, it was hailed as an incredible performance on Nadal's part.

Any top players can rise on their worst surfaces once in a while, the difference is they are not consistent on it. Safin this week proved he can play on grass. Juan Carlos Ferrero who was highly ranked two year ago could smoke Agassi on fast US Open hardcourt on a given day, the difference is he is not consistent on that surface.

 

[illuminati817]

LOL! You are the idiot! I wrote that in a rhetorical context. The fact you could not read that, and recognize that, is amusing to say the least, since a 6-year old probably would have recognized it. :mrgreen:

so who's the one saying that all fed fans will be making excuses when he supposedly loses everything.....you should know better than to make excuses yourself. cute way to try and turn things around though.

 

[davey25]

Actually is was true. Nadal beat Roddick in tough 4 sets in last year's Davis Cup on clay, it was hailed as an incredible performance on Nadal's part.

I was fully aware of that, however that was then and this is now. Nadal was far from established as the worlds dominant clay courter then, he was unproven as even a serious contender on tour, just a highly touted prospect at that point. Do you really believe if the same thing happened now it would be hailed as an incredable performance on Nadal's part in the same way? I doubt it.

 

[The tennis guy]

Really, except for Safin's quarterfinal in 2001, where he benefitted from a cakewalk draw, his Wimbledon record is basically the same as Roddick's FO record. Roddick has actually won small events on clay, there are not as many events on grass, but Safin has entered his share of small grass court events with weak fields before, and won none. I would say there isnt much difference between the two on their worst surface up until now.

When did Safin enter small grass events with weak fields? He only entered GW or Queens which generally attract strong grass court players. You are twisting fact to fit your pathetic theory.

By the way, revise your book on Safin on grass, he has demonstrated he can play on grass this year.

 

[davey25]

so who's the one saying that all fed fans will be making excuses when he supposedly loses everything.....you should know better than to make excuses yourself. cute way to try and turn things around though.

I am not making excuses for anything, nor do I need to. If you read my whole statement, it is blatantly obvious my surface statement was rhetorical, and the point of my post was that surfaces are a huge factor. The fact that you fail to recognize such a basic simple truth, and now fail to acknowledge it even as it has been pointed out, is your own problems with elementary reading.

 

[Grimjack]

Really, except for Safin's quarterfinal in 2001, where he benefitted from a cakewalk draw, his Wimbledon record is basically the same as Roddick's FO record. Roddick has actually won small events on clay, there are not as many events on grass, but Safin has entered his share of small grass court events with weak fields before, and won none. I would say there isnt much difference between the two on their worst surface up until now.

I would agree with this. I would say, however, that just based on the relative strengths and weaknesses inherent in each player's style, it's not unreasonable to suggest that Safin has the tools to achieve more on grass than Roddick does on clay.

 

[illuminati817]

I am not making excuses for anything, nor do I need to. If you read my whole statement, it is blatantly obvious my surface statement was rhetorical, and the point of my post was that surfaces are a huge factor. The fact that you fail to recognize such a basic simple truth, and now fail to acknowledge it even as it has been pointed out, is your own problems with elementary reading.

You might wanna consider the fact that all your previous posts have been ridiculous. As the famous line goes "from such a history of mental instability..." one can't know what to expect. Maybe if your credibility were up a little higher people would actually take you seriously or know how to judge your comments. Sorry thats not the case.

 

[Fedubai]

And while we were talking Federer and Allegro just beat Marat and JJ in the doubles final 7-5, 6-7(6), 6-3.

Congrats guys.

 

[davey25]

You must know nothing about tennis then, because clearly everyone knows safin is the 2nd best in the world.

Everybody? So John McEnroe, Bud Collins, and all the experts on the game would unaminously agree that Safin is the 2nd best in the world too right? I dont get that impression from anything they have said, oh well I guess they just arent idiots like yourself.

 

[The tennis guy]

Agree. We should just leave davey25 alone to his own pathetic twisted mind. I wish he doesn't have to end up in a mental hospital someday if he keeps this up.

I hope Federer doesn't play too well for the rest of year, otherwise, both TWISTSERVE and DAVEY25 will end up in a mental institute. Please, Roger, save them! Only you can.

 

[illuminati817]

good on Roger(and Allegro of course), lets go W three-peat!

 

[illuminati817]

Everybody? So John McEnroe, Bud Collins, and all the experts on the game would unaminously agree that Safin is the 2nd best in the world too right? I dont get that impression from anything they have said, oh well I guess they just arent idiots like yourself.

Read the rest of the post, nutcase. And while on that, call a shrink.

 

[illuminati817]

Agree. We should just leave davey25 alone to his own pathetic twisted mind. I wish he doesn't have to end up in a mental hospital someday if he keeps this up.

I hope Federer doesn't play too well for the rest of year, otherwise, both TWISTSERV and DAVEY25 will end up in a mental institute. Please, Roger, save them! Only you can.

Alas that they should be there already, but oh well. You're 100% right, man.

 

[davey25]

You might wanna consider the fact that all your previous posts have been ridiculous. As the famous line goes "from such a history of mental instability..." one can't know what to expect. Maybe if your credibility were up a little higher people would actually take you seriously or know how to judge your comments. Sorry thats not the case.

Really, this is coming from somebody who is too stupid to read such a simple statement, as the one below and recognize the 'surface mean nothing' was meant to be rhetorical. Perhaps the elementary schools in your area have a few spaces free to help you with basis English understanding.

Yes, surfaces mean nothing. If Nadal were to beat Roddick in tough 3 sets in a clay court tournament, it would be an incredable peformance on Nadal's part, since Roddick is so highly ranked.

 

[davey25]

Read the rest of the post, nutcase. And while on that, call a shrink.

Actually it is quite a simple post. You claimed matter-of-factly that everybody recognizes Safin is the second-best-player in the world today. I am not surprised you are backtracking however, since you know this is clearly not the case.

 

[illuminati817]

Really, this is coming from somebody who is too stupid to read such a simple statement, as the one below and recognize the 'surface mean nothing' was meant to be rhetorical. Perhaps the elementary schools in your area have a few spaces free to help you with basis English understanding.

"basis" english understanding huh? mmm....right. And ill repeat myself, insane people are unpredictable, normal people don't know how to take the absurdities coming out of their mouths. With that said, the tennis guy was right, you should be left alone, if only to wallow in your misery and malintent for someone you most likely sickly envy. Again, talk to a shrink. I'm done talking to you.

 

[Fedubai]

Come on, this was a good argument to begin with. Bottom line, we'll see how Federer and Safin perform at Wimbledon. But you can't deny that this was a good win against Safin. He isn't that bad on grass afterall. It's not like Roddick on clay, I don't think.

 

[joesixtoe]

federer is still the best tennis player on the planet, and the most feared, just since the people in the top ten have beaten him(safin, nadal), people arent as afraid anymore when they step on court. as we all know confidence is a huge thing when it comes to playing a sport.

 

[davey25]

"basis" english understanding huh? mmm....right. And ill repeat myself, insane people are unpredictable, normal people don't know how to take the absurdities coming out of their mouths.

That is the best defense you can come up with. Pathetic, although I would not have expected anything more from you. :mrgreen: