Has anyone played with a Vantage 90 with a 70 flex rating?
- Thread starter Cavaleer
- Start date
I have hit with both 63 and 70 flex Vantages. I believe both to be slightly "softer" than the specified flex. The 63 felt like it was 60 or less and the 70 seemed perfect for me...which is about a 66 or 67 flex. The 70 had good power and allowed for crisp volleys and fantastic pop on serves/overheads. It was also fine for my arm, which had experienced some problems with other racquets stiffer than 67. I also believe that Vantage frame stiffness ratings are based on the racquet before the handle and grip are in place. This might decrease the stiffness rating when the dust settles to a mid 60 or slightly higher. Bottom line.........Vantage makes a quality stick and the stiffness ratings IMO end up being a bit lower than stated. Definitely my racquet of choice for the long term. Give it a go and good luck!
Vantage_User
New User
I had a brief 30 mins hitting session against a 4.0 player, with a Vantage 90 70 flex, 27.25, 330 10 HL, original Vantage string @ 58 lbs. The whole spec. is actually very very close to my dream spec. except for the unstrung 10 pt HL balance, which results a bit higher SW than what I want. Still, I got into the glove very quickly. Here is my impression from hitting groundstrokes, sorry no time to serve with it:
The small headsize and *firm* flex of the racquethead, results a very solid and clean feel on impact. The stability is good, kind of remind me the stability of Pure Control and HPS5.0. While the throat does feel as stiff as 68 + to 70. However, I have to say, this racquet is not harsh to hit with. The overall feeling resulting from the high stiffness is a firm, soild, clean feeling and very littile vibiration even on off centre hit. The feeling on ball impact is a bit different from say, 6.0 85, 6.1, Prestige Classic, which all have a mix of other material. The Vantage is pure graphite ... hard to describe the difference for me. Anyway, it feels real soild.
On forehand, however, the stiff throat does affect imparting spins. I have to shift my grip from in-between eastern and semi-western to a bit more semi-western and adjust my swing in order to get more spin. Especially for low fast pace ball, I have a hard time to impart enough spin to the ball to get pass the net. I believe it can be improved by lower the string tension or using a thinner string. Other than that, everyting on FH and BH is good. Good power, more powerful than other classic thin beam small headsize racquet. Very good directional control. Swings a bit lighter than I expected. I hit my single BH very good with this bat.
Others: same experience as other vantage user, hit like a more forgiving 90, more powerful than usual midsize racquet, swings a bit lighter than its spec suggested.
If you are an attracking all courter, sure you'll love the combination of small headsize, open pattern and firm stiffness. Just pick your right length, weight/balance and very importantly a comfortable grip. Then enjoy hitting the court.
P.S. I just order 2 Vantage BUT with 63 flex looking to get more feel. But I just found it is more demanding and less stable to play with for me. I'm a Wilson guy and long time user of 6.0 and 6.1. So I'm selling these 2 and going back to 70 flex. A soft string at high tension plus a damper on the 70 flex will make the whole thing works our beautifully. Hope this help.
The small headsize and *firm* flex of the racquethead, results a very solid and clean feel on impact. The stability is good, kind of remind me the stability of Pure Control and HPS5.0. While the throat does feel as stiff as 68 + to 70. However, I have to say, this racquet is not harsh to hit with. The overall feeling resulting from the high stiffness is a firm, soild, clean feeling and very littile vibiration even on off centre hit. The feeling on ball impact is a bit different from say, 6.0 85, 6.1, Prestige Classic, which all have a mix of other material. The Vantage is pure graphite ... hard to describe the difference for me. Anyway, it feels real soild.
On forehand, however, the stiff throat does affect imparting spins. I have to shift my grip from in-between eastern and semi-western to a bit more semi-western and adjust my swing in order to get more spin. Especially for low fast pace ball, I have a hard time to impart enough spin to the ball to get pass the net. I believe it can be improved by lower the string tension or using a thinner string. Other than that, everyting on FH and BH is good. Good power, more powerful than other classic thin beam small headsize racquet. Very good directional control. Swings a bit lighter than I expected. I hit my single BH very good with this bat.
Others: same experience as other vantage user, hit like a more forgiving 90, more powerful than usual midsize racquet, swings a bit lighter than its spec suggested.
If you are an attracking all courter, sure you'll love the combination of small headsize, open pattern and firm stiffness. Just pick your right length, weight/balance and very importantly a comfortable grip. Then enjoy hitting the court.
P.S. I just order 2 Vantage BUT with 63 flex looking to get more feel. But I just found it is more demanding and less stable to play with for me. I'm a Wilson guy and long time user of 6.0 and 6.1. So I'm selling these 2 and going back to 70 flex. A soft string at high tension plus a damper on the 70 flex will make the whole thing works our beautifully. Hope this help.
As mentioned the vantage sticks play softer than the rating due to multiple factors but good to know going in. Also there is more flexiblity in some areas than the webiste shows. Weight, balance, and grip size can be customized outside the options shown on the website. Head size and string patterns can't right now.
Good luck with your quest if you know what you want Vantage should be able to help you out and very happy with mine.
Good luck with your quest if you know what you want Vantage should be able to help you out and very happy with mine.
monologuist
Hall of Fame
I haven't tried the 90", but I've tried the 100" in both flexes. I think the 63 RA plays pretty much the way I'd expect it to, but the 70 RA definitely was not as stiff as I thought it would be. I was coming from stiff tweeners like the Wilson Surge, Pure Drive, etc., and it definitely felt less stiff than those. The thing is, even though it is very firm at 70 RA, the Vantage racquets have a dampened enough hit to them that you don't get a lot of excess vibration being sent to your arm. It's a strange thing...they have tons of feel, but yet are so comfortable and dampened....not dampened in the way the new PRince O3 racquets are where you get NO feel.
anyway, even their 63 RA frames have more than enough power for me, in fact, surprising amount of power for their specs, so I definitely don't see myself needing 70RA...
anyway, even their 63 RA frames have more than enough power for me, in fact, surprising amount of power for their specs, so I definitely don't see myself needing 70RA...
LafayetteHitter
Hall of Fame
I have a 100" Vantage in a 70 flex and I also don't find it plays as stiff as I expected it to and I have found it to be very easy on my arm as well. I haven't played with it alot but enough to know it does everything it's supposed and does it well. I think the 100" Vantage frames should be more popular than they are as they have a nice edge in the market of these 100" frames once you try them you get to see what I mean.
monologuist
Hall of Fame
L-Hitter...which weight and balance do you have? Mine is 63 RA, 27.5" , 11.4 oz./12 pts headlight, and it's pretty much as powerful as all these tweener 100" frames, if you can generate a fast swing. In fact, sometimes it seems almost too powerful for my strokes, so I'm looking into some alternative stringing setups to tame the power. I has assumed that if I went with the 70 RA, it would have been even more power!
Vantage_User
New User
Vantage 90 w/ 70 flex is a good skeleton to start with
*** Deleted due to double posting ***
*** Deleted due to double posting ***
Vantage_User
New User
Vantage 90 w/ 70 flex is a good skeleton to start with
Let me start by saying the PS6.0 85 is so so unique on its own. It is the chemistry of the mix and match of small headsize, thin straight box shape beam, heavy mass, headlight balance, and braided Kevlar construction , etc …. that results such a great racquet. It is that unique combination which makes this racquet shines. Before switching to Vantage, I used the SRD Tour 90 for couple of years. Before that I used the China white butt cap version 85 for about 3 years. Like many others, I’ve been searching for a racquet that feels and plays very much like a 6.0 85, but a bit more forgiving. And again like many other 85 users, it seems that I always play my best when I came back to the 6.0 85. So why am I still looking for a change? Even now, when I found my Vantage 90 w/ flex 63 doesn’t feel so right, and I immediately think about going back to 6.0 85…but still I decided to change, change to Vantage 90 w/ 70 flex. Why go for a change?
It is simply because I realize my game has been evolving to a more attacking all court style. Throughout the years, I changed my grip from eastern to in-between eastern and SW, my swing style changed, I do more work out, and more importantly my mindset changed as well. I’m now open to changes that leads to improvement. However, some fundamental and crucial elements remain the same, such as I still need a racquet plays much like a 6.0 85, but bit more forgiving, I still play single-BH… Uh… so am I going back to the same circle? Yup, very likely, but this time I have a new perspective towards my search of a new racquet. And it is started by Des-construction of “Why the 6.0 85 let me play my best, expect because I grow up with it?” A racquet is just a racquet, a racquet that make me play the best. A construction of my dream racquet starts by des-construction of my dream racquet 6.0 85.
Okay, I mentioned a lot of stuff, but finally going back to the start point, right? Yup, BUT I have to tell you guys, once I realize to take this new perspective to my racquet, I can feel the peace in my heart. I now really focus on working out my game with my best tool. I have a lot more desires to hit the court in the aim of improving my game. Not in the aim of trying to figure out how a racquet plays, whether it will suit me or not. I don’t even tempted to try all those either fancy or classic racquets and looking to hopefully improve my game, simply because most of them don’t even have a close spec. to my 6.0 85. Now a racquet is just a tool to me. This must be a personal tool crafted specially for me yet have enough flexibility to resemble most of the figures of my 6.0 85. Custom made is the only way to go.
Cavaleer said:
Let me start by saying the PS6.0 85 is so so unique on its own. It is the chemistry of the mix and match of small headsize, thin straight box shape beam, heavy mass, headlight balance, and braided Kevlar construction , etc …. that results such a great racquet. It is that unique combination which makes this racquet shines. Before switching to Vantage, I used the SRD Tour 90 for couple of years. Before that I used the China white butt cap version 85 for about 3 years. Like many others, I’ve been searching for a racquet that feels and plays very much like a 6.0 85, but a bit more forgiving. And again like many other 85 users, it seems that I always play my best when I came back to the 6.0 85. So why am I still looking for a change? Even now, when I found my Vantage 90 w/ flex 63 doesn’t feel so right, and I immediately think about going back to 6.0 85…but still I decided to change, change to Vantage 90 w/ 70 flex. Why go for a change?
It is simply because I realize my game has been evolving to a more attacking all court style. Throughout the years, I changed my grip from eastern to in-between eastern and SW, my swing style changed, I do more work out, and more importantly my mindset changed as well. I’m now open to changes that leads to improvement. However, some fundamental and crucial elements remain the same, such as I still need a racquet plays much like a 6.0 85, but bit more forgiving, I still play single-BH… Uh… so am I going back to the same circle? Yup, very likely, but this time I have a new perspective towards my search of a new racquet. And it is started by Des-construction of “Why the 6.0 85 let me play my best, expect because I grow up with it?” A racquet is just a racquet, a racquet that make me play the best. A construction of my dream racquet starts by des-construction of my dream racquet 6.0 85.
Okay, I mentioned a lot of stuff, but finally going back to the start point, right? Yup, BUT I have to tell you guys, once I realize to take this new perspective to my racquet, I can feel the peace in my heart. I now really focus on working out my game with my best tool. I have a lot more desires to hit the court in the aim of improving my game. Not in the aim of trying to figure out how a racquet plays, whether it will suit me or not. I don’t even tempted to try all those either fancy or classic racquets and looking to hopefully improve my game, simply because most of them don’t even have a close spec. to my 6.0 85. Now a racquet is just a tool to me. This must be a personal tool crafted specially for me yet have enough flexibility to resemble most of the figures of my 6.0 85. Custom made is the only way to go.
Vantage_User
New User
Vantage 90 w/ 70 flex is a good skeleton to start with...cont'
So what’s my result of des-construction of 6.0 85? Actually nothing really new, small headsize, thin beam, heavy weight, open string pattern, somewhat stiff, leather grip, must be a Wilson grip shape. One important thing to me that really affect how the racquet feels during swings is the shape, angle and length of the throat, as well as the proportion of length of the throat to the length of where the throat merge and join with the handle.
Taking all these into account, I have to repeat my title for this reply saying that Vantage 90 w/ 70 flex is a good skeleton to start with, especially for the lower part of the racquet, from the throat down to the handle. Vantage’s design is very similar to that of 6.0 85, except Vantage has a round throat beam. Be sure to prepare that it will be different from your trusty 6.0 85, but if you are open to changes and in the wish of looking for changes that leads to improvement, then you should give it a try. Choose your other parameters carefully, have some in depth conversations with people from Vantage or RacqetMaxx, adjust the string tension a bit, then go and enjoy hitting the court.
So what’s my result of des-construction of 6.0 85? Actually nothing really new, small headsize, thin beam, heavy weight, open string pattern, somewhat stiff, leather grip, must be a Wilson grip shape. One important thing to me that really affect how the racquet feels during swings is the shape, angle and length of the throat, as well as the proportion of length of the throat to the length of where the throat merge and join with the handle.
Taking all these into account, I have to repeat my title for this reply saying that Vantage 90 w/ 70 flex is a good skeleton to start with, especially for the lower part of the racquet, from the throat down to the handle. Vantage’s design is very similar to that of 6.0 85, except Vantage has a round throat beam. Be sure to prepare that it will be different from your trusty 6.0 85, but if you are open to changes and in the wish of looking for changes that leads to improvement, then you should give it a try. Choose your other parameters carefully, have some in depth conversations with people from Vantage or RacqetMaxx, adjust the string tension a bit, then go and enjoy hitting the court.
Vantage_User
New User
Cont'
Here is my short comparison between 6.0 85 and Vantage 90 27.25 70 flex unstrung 330-10HL original VST string:
Ball impact – sweetspot feeling: Same solid no question, but definitely feels different. Vantage has a firmer and more forgiving feel. To my surprise, Vantage seems to have a cleaner feel on impact. While 6.0 85 seems to cup the ball a bit longer.
Topspin: 6.0 85 has a better spin potential due to its lower 66 flex.
Stability: For this given Vantage, it is more stable than 6.0 85. Generally speaking, I think Vantage will also have an edge in stability because of its thick beam 19mm and wider head surface. Please also note that Vantage doesn’t have much mass at the throat, while 6.0 85 seems to have more mass at the throat. This could also result a feeling of difference in stability.
Stiffness: Vantage has an overall firmer feeling than 6.0 85. To me, the throat part of Vantage 70 does feel like 68 or stiffer than 6.0 85. Other than that, the difference in beam construction and material (Kevlar in 6.0 85) contribute to the most differences in stiffness and feel.
Power: Vantage has a lot more penetrating power than 6.0 85.
Maneuverability: For this given Vantage, sure it does have a higher SW than 6.0 85. As other Vantage user commented, Vantage racquet usually swings at the light side of the SW suggested. A bit of lead around the balance point can easily increase the SW to your comfortable range.
Control: Both offer pinpoint accuracy, but still 6.0 85 seems to have better control especially on slice and compact-fast approach shot.
I think if you want to resemble the greatness of 6.0 85, the closest spec would be 90, 27inch, 70 flex, 335g /11 pt unstrung (yes it is not available on the web, but they can built for you), Black, Wilson grip shape. One last word, I’m not sure if RacquetMaxx offer demo or not. If yes, try the VT001 to see how you feel about Vantage.
Here is my short comparison between 6.0 85 and Vantage 90 27.25 70 flex unstrung 330-10HL original VST string:
Ball impact – sweetspot feeling: Same solid no question, but definitely feels different. Vantage has a firmer and more forgiving feel. To my surprise, Vantage seems to have a cleaner feel on impact. While 6.0 85 seems to cup the ball a bit longer.
Topspin: 6.0 85 has a better spin potential due to its lower 66 flex.
Stability: For this given Vantage, it is more stable than 6.0 85. Generally speaking, I think Vantage will also have an edge in stability because of its thick beam 19mm and wider head surface. Please also note that Vantage doesn’t have much mass at the throat, while 6.0 85 seems to have more mass at the throat. This could also result a feeling of difference in stability.
Stiffness: Vantage has an overall firmer feeling than 6.0 85. To me, the throat part of Vantage 70 does feel like 68 or stiffer than 6.0 85. Other than that, the difference in beam construction and material (Kevlar in 6.0 85) contribute to the most differences in stiffness and feel.
Power: Vantage has a lot more penetrating power than 6.0 85.
Maneuverability: For this given Vantage, sure it does have a higher SW than 6.0 85. As other Vantage user commented, Vantage racquet usually swings at the light side of the SW suggested. A bit of lead around the balance point can easily increase the SW to your comfortable range.
Control: Both offer pinpoint accuracy, but still 6.0 85 seems to have better control especially on slice and compact-fast approach shot.
I think if you want to resemble the greatness of 6.0 85, the closest spec would be 90, 27inch, 70 flex, 335g /11 pt unstrung (yes it is not available on the web, but they can built for you), Black, Wilson grip shape. One last word, I’m not sure if RacquetMaxx offer demo or not. If yes, try the VT001 to see how you feel about Vantage.
Vantage User...thanks for the in-depth review and info. Good stuff.
Monoloquist: My Vantage spec (and game) seems similar to yours and I have many of the same feelings regarding the power vs flex issue. However I will be hitting with a 70 flex version of my spec later in the week and will post feedback.
Monoloquist: My Vantage spec (and game) seems similar to yours and I have many of the same feelings regarding the power vs flex issue. However I will be hitting with a 70 flex version of my spec later in the week and will post feedback.
monologuist
Hall of Fame
rory, how are your Vantages strung? I had Laserfibre Supreme 17 in mine at about 62 lbs. and it was a little too powerful. Thinking of going up or using a poly hybrid.
monologuist said:
Mono, I have found a couple of good setups. One is a full Bi-Phase 18 string job at 63 lbs. I can get a good grip on the ball, very good power, but retain the control. I am not a big string breaker so the 18g is not a problem. The other good setup was Klip K-Boom 18g poly mains at 56 lbs. and gut (I forget which brand) crosses at 60 lbs. Both of these work for me. I am interested in seeing the difference with a 70 Vantage flex.
I use Vantage 90" 63RA sticks... currently I've got one still with the Vantage VTS1 string in, and another where I've switched from full Lux TIMO 1.1mm @52lbs, to TIMO/VTS1 hybrid @52lbs.
The full TIMO had AMAZING bite, but the feel wasn't there, and not a lot of power surprisingly. The hybrid is much better, lots more feel, still with some bite, and more power, though both strings are not the most powerful, the low tension makes up for this... oh and no problems with control at all, the Vantage 90" is awsome. The extra power is welcome as were hitting winter here in the UK, and playing at night when its cold and damp means the balls are starting to get real heavy.
I will still experiment with string, but I deffinitly will use a very thin mains, I use to break the Vantage VTS1 string a lot, but thats because i hit hard and its a very soft string... with the TIMO mains, they just don't move, so they are lasting much much longer.
The full TIMO had AMAZING bite, but the feel wasn't there, and not a lot of power surprisingly. The hybrid is much better, lots more feel, still with some bite, and more power, though both strings are not the most powerful, the low tension makes up for this... oh and no problems with control at all, the Vantage 90" is awsome. The extra power is welcome as were hitting winter here in the UK, and playing at night when its cold and damp means the balls are starting to get real heavy.
I will still experiment with string, but I deffinitly will use a very thin mains, I use to break the Vantage VTS1 string a lot, but thats because i hit hard and its a very soft string... with the TIMO mains, they just don't move, so they are lasting much much longer.
monologuist
Hall of Fame
Rory G said:
How do you like all those 18 gauge strings vs. 17 and 16 in the 100" head? I haven't had a lot of luck with 18g. in a 100" frame : feels like there isn't enough string touching the ball b/c of the extremely open pattern! Was just wondering if you felt like you had more or less power/control with such a thin gauge in such an open pattern.
Mono....I really prefer 17 & 18g strings for open patterns (and dense for that matter). I haven't found any problems with the gauge versus pattern/size of the frame. Frankly, the 18g in the 100" head has provided great spin/power combo. I don't feel a control difference between 16/17 and 18 though in this frame. I am also a fan of Laser Supreme 17 and going up to an 18 doesn't feel like there is a lack of string on the ball as you say.
monologuist
Hall of Fame
Rory G said:
I had the Supreme 17 in my Vantage for a while. It was a decent match....actually the Supreme, after being strung, is almost as thin as an 18 gauge.
I will also try a poly/gut hybrid soon...I like the Kboom/Legend combo in my Yonexes, so maybe will try the same in the Vantage. Also have some Signum Plasma and Polystar Energy lying around that I might try in it.
I absoultely love gut in the Vantage, but it may be a touch too powerful...but I may try gut at like 64 lbs. or something to see if that will tone it down.
Vantage/RacquetMaxx has been great about discussing swingweights relative to the custom specs that I have built. I don't know about a list, but simply contacting them regarding a certain spec will get you a good swingweight estimate. In my 25 years of playing I have not encountered better customer service from a racquet company.
LafayetteHitter
Hall of Fame
Oti, I would contact Vantage for and idea on a good setup combining the two frames you have used. It could be figured out here for a few good options but I think Vantage customer service would be more than a pleasing option for you in figuring out the perfect frame specs. Just a heads up here, but I hear rumors of a gunmetal grey color as a POSSIBILITY in the future along with white and black. I'd be one of the first to buy a couple more for sure in grey. What do you guys think about grey?
monologuist
Hall of Fame
oti said:
That's a pretty drastic difference between those two frames....the HPS 6.1 Stretch is probably around 12.5 oz., 95", and swingweight 340 or above, while a Surge X is like 11 oz., 100", and swingweight of 315 or so right? Maybe you could tell us more about how you play with each....
