Having trouble at NET, FH volley good -- but BH volley is unstable and not punching..

[plum]

I think it is my grip, when at the net, I might favor the forehand by cheating toward eastern instead of true continental. I can not think of what else it could be. My serve and overheads seem to use the continental OK. But when i get to the net my BH volleys seem to slice to much or something. IT is tricky to get a good BH punch volley.
Any suggestions... I got one practice!
Have a friend drill the BH at the net and play around with the grip until find a good compromise between the BH and FH volley grip.

 

[LeeD]

Lots of pros, top volleyers, used a grip that is favored closer to eForehand than true conti. They just compensate on the backhand volley with a longer swing, more shoulder turn, and more punch forward body movement.
Look at vids of Edberg, Rafter, Cash, Sampras, even Federer. There is a forehand grip bias in them, along with Becker and lots others.

 

[plum]

Thanks for mentioning that.
I just realized that I never think about my rotation on BH volleys.
I'm sure on the forehand side especially when time presents itself that I rotate.
But on the BH side I usually feel a little rushed and since I play -- with the exception of the slice BH, a THBH, maybe I need to think about my shoulder and hip rotation more.
Also maybe I could adjust my wrist angle to help make up the offset angle caused by the slight FH grip.

 

[boramiNYC]

Conti grip and your pelvis must face left side of the court as you volley bh, thus closed stance and as you step. This posture allows both your large front and back muscles to stabilize and control arm. Practice moving your feet quickly so your pelvis can face sideway as you hit.

 

[LeeD]

Try a 2handed volley, power coming from your left hand, like a forehand volley.
A few OK players used it. JimmyConnors during his ascension, FrewMcMillian when he was no.l in doubles, GeneMayer when he was top 4 in doubles, some obscure bloke named Segura.....

 

[LeeD]

No adjusting wrist. You can't replicate the angle in play. Instead, turn shoulders fully so you're sideways to the opponent as you hit your backhand volleys, and remember to take it LATE, just 6" ahead of your hitting shoulder.
Since your volley grip is conti towards eFOREhand, you gotta compensate to hit your backhand volleys.

 

[plum]

THV that'd a good idea.
I'm supposed to keep both hands on the racquet anyway when I'm in stand-by mode.
I have however seen some just keep a left hand on the throat...

OH Late that makes sense. I always try to hit them early like FHV...

 

[Chyeaah]

If the backhand volley is not stable when you hit it in the middle/sweetspot, either

Switch to a 2 handed volley (terrible idea, your reach goes down by alot)
Heavier Racquet (heavier racquets are more stable)
Get stronger (too get it more stable)

If you're a rec player I can see the problem of the opponent hitting to soft to get a good forcing volley but generally if you get your racquet on the ball (you don't even need to swing, just block it) it goes deep.

Also, in obvious cases learn to read the shot, like if someone is preparing to hit on the outside of the ball it will go cross court while inside goes down the line.

 

[charliefedererer]

I recently posted the following about volleys.

It involves a comparison between the forehand and backhand volley.

Perhaps you will find this helpful.

"When you watch the pros, the rhythmic quality of their volleys is apparent:
Roger Federer Slow Motion volleys http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qju-1MOj9cg&feature=related
Andy Murray - Volleys in Slow Motion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7YJxNvH_mI&feature=relmfu

It's not a full swing, but it's not just a punch either.

The key seems to be the early shoulder turn, transferring the weight onto the back foot so the step into the ball can occur.

But the racquet is never just pushed in the direction of ball flight. The racquet is kept in continuous motion back to the center.

The follow through on the volley is essential for recovery of body balance to be ready for the next shot.




As the ball approaches, turn your shoulders (turning your entire upper torso) away from the ball, and power volleys above the net by stepping into the ball.

In the sequence above, Serena rotates only 45 degrees away from the ball, then rotates back only to neutral as she directs her racquet straight forward in her stroke.
Note the shoulder turn precedes the step, with the step into the ball indeed essential as you yourself mentioned above.
Note the racquet travels pretty far; it's not just a punch, but a shortened stroke bringing the racquet around back to the center in the follow through (rather than just leaving the racquet pushed straight in the direction of the ball path.)
That continued movement of the racquet in the follow through is essential for a quick rebalancing of your body in recovery for the next volley.



Same thing on the backhand volley. The early shoulder turn precedes a step, with a follow through bringing the racquet back to the center of the body to aid in recovery of balance for the next shot:

This sweeping motion of the arm into the follow through is even more pronounced on the low volley. Sweeping the arm through and up on the follow through is essential to pull our upper body up out of the low vollwy position to recover for the next shot.

Tennis instruction from Tennis Oxygen: The Volley swing path http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQMLW2Szcb0



Tip #2: Almost point the butt of the racquet at the ball.

On groundstokes we are taught to "aim the butt of the racquet at the ball".

It's more subtle in the volley, but we should start to point the butt of the racquet at the ball (lay the racquet back) in the initiation of the forward swing. See pic 4 of Serena above and pic 3 of Djokovic.


Tennis instruction volley secret #1 by tennisoxygen.com The need to lay the wrist back when hitting a forehand volley. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9RAtTP5SYg



Tip #3 The footwork on the volley follows from the early shoulder turn.

If you are split stepping each time your opponent hits the ball, and your first reaction is an early shoulder turn away from the ball for the appropriate forehand or backhand volley, the proper footwork should follow.

Square quickly to be ready for the next split step/volley.

If you think you have gotten in too close to the net, step back and split step.

If you are on the way to the net, take another step or two in, but be spit stepping as your opponent strikes the ball.

Always move in at a diagonal, never straight across for volleys to your side.

It's often been said "You volley with your feet".

Good volley practice should involve nonstop motion, rebalancing and split stepping.
Bryan Brothers Warmup Volleys Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0ER3qLf91I&feature=relmfu "

- http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=6427599#post6427599

 

[plum]

Actually in the Fed video it looks like on the BHV he is adjusting his wrist right before contact to take the slice out of it. maybe he is supinating his hand and maybe it is more that just the wrist doing it. Maybe the wrist is leading but the whole forearm is supinating to take the slice angle out of the BH.

 

[charliefedererer]

Actually in the Fed video it looks like on the BHV he is adjusting his wrist right before contact to take the slice out of it. maybe he is supinating his hand and maybe it is more that just the wrist doing it. Maybe the wrist is leading but the whole forearm is supinating to take the slice angle out of the BH.

By "slice angle" I assume you mean the racquet face is less open at contact.

This is a natural consequence of starting with the racquet head "laid back" as if starting to "aim the butt of the racquet at the ball" as the initial move in the forward swing, but having the racquet face less open to have a bigger "sweet spot" at contact.

While having an open face contributes to slice on a ball, it is the movement of the racquet face from high to low that provides most of the backspin on high volleys. (Too open a racquet face on high volleys would contribute to popping the ball up.)

On low volleys, having the racquet face more open will be more important to provide the elevation to get the ball up and over the net.

 

[10sLifer]

Wow great observation Lee! Did you come up with that observation on your own?

Lots of pros, top volleyers, used a grip that is favored closer to eForehand than true conti. They just compensate on the backhand volley with a longer swing, more shoulder turn, and more punch forward body movement.
Look at vids of Edberg, Rafter, Cash, Sampras, even Federer. There is a forehand grip bias in them, along with Becker and lots others.

 

[TheCheese]

If your BH volley isn't stable, make sure you're contacting the ball far enough out in front. You need more leverage on the BH side than FH, since there's less strength there.

 

[tennisfreak3]

Practice your bh slice a lot. When I'm at the net, my bh volley is better after. Try it. You'll feel the contact point on the bh volley better. P.S. The bh volley is very similar to the bh slice.

It's like federer. He switched to a 1 hand bh to have better volleys.

 

[tennisfreak3]

When do you split step?

The question seems stupid but I just saw a video on youtube saying to split step after the recognition of the ball path. Every pro is doing that. They are not split stepping when contact. They are even doing that on the serve return.

So I was thinking. What about doing the little jump of the split step at the contact? So when I'll be on my toes, the timing will be perfect.

 

[tennisfreak3]

nevermind my last message...

 

[Ballinbob]

charliefedererer, that point the racket butt at the ball tip really helped me out today. How do you handle high backhand and high forehand volleys though? I feel like I struggle on those most, especially the high bh volley

 

[escii_35]

This...

Try a 2handed volley, power coming from your left hand, like a forehand volley.
A few OK players used it. JimmyConnors during his ascension, FrewMcMillian when he was no.l in doubles, GeneMayer when he was top 4 in doubles, some obscure bloke named Segura.....

As soon as I get tight to the net the second hand comes out for stability. On the first volley of an S&V sequence the one hander works fine because all my weight is -really- moving forward.

 

[LeeD]

High volleys...
Since it's high, it's a slow mover. A fast mover goes long.
Slow mover, you turn shoulders, hit it either deep DTL or short sharp angle CC, inside the service line. The high ball allows you more angle, since contact point is well higher than the net.
If you have tons of time, step in after turning shoulders for more pace, but you don't need lots of pace if you go short angle sharp CC.

 

[charliefedererer]

charliefedererer, that point the racket butt at the ball tip really helped me out today. How do you handle high backhand and high forehand volleys though? I feel like I struggle on those most, especially the high bh volley

LeeD gives good points above.

I just wanted to add that I often see players instinctively "stand tall" when the ball is higher.

But to "load" to hit any shot, even a high backhand volley, you have to have at least some knee bend, even if you are preparing by keeping your arms relatively high:

The following link goes through the "Michael Llodra's High Backhand Volley"
http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/instruction.aspx?articleid=344&zoneid=14

(Now his back swing and subsequent follow through are way bigger than you will want to use (even though you will want some back swing and follow through). But he does demonstrate the importance of the early shoulder turn, knee bend, "volleying with his feet" by getting into the right spot - all what you want to do in in every volley.)


Another point on high volleys is that by continuing to close while hitting the high volley often gives you a better rhythm than coming to a complete stop, as emphasized in this article:
High Backhand Volley http://tennis.about.com/od/playersmale/ss/murraysbs_8.htm

 

[corbind]

I suspect you unknowingly learned your hybrid grip and now it's just habit. Switch to a Continental / Hammer grip. Your BH volleys immediately improve and your FH volleys will take a little more time to adjust.

Your current grip for FH volleys can work well but it sucks for low balls. Further, your modified grip for BH puts a lot more strain on the muscles and is slightly slower to get in position. Yet the reality is, if it works, continue with it. But you notice something is not right which is why you posted.

 

[BevelDevil]

^^^ that's a good point about the hammer grip. It seems like most good volleyers use some type of hammer on the bh, and some type of pistol grip on the fh side.

As for the OP, if he switches to a conti on both sides there's a good chance he'll have the exact same problem, but on the fh side instead. As LeeD pointed out above, some of the best volleyers out there use a semi-conti, so it's probably more an issue of his stroke production.

Also, a cont+hammer is probably much stronger than necessary.

 

[corbind]

As for the OP, if he switches to a conti on both sides there's a good chance he'll have the exact same problem, but on the fh side instead.

Agreed, but something needs to be done no matter how you look at it. The BH has much less power so it needs the benefit of a hammer/continental grip even if it costs power on the FH.

It's really amazing how many players have idiosyncrasies and are still able to play well. Looking back when I started playing guitar a decade ago, among my decent technique, I developed a few bad habits. Two I dread because they are so ingrained now that I won't spend the months to relearn. I'm effective but it could have been better if I had learned a different fingering to have freedom to add more notes which I can't the way I learned.

 

[TennisCJC]

If you are a 2HBH player, you may be making contact a little late. For 1 HBH volley be sure that your are contacting the ball in front of your racket shoulder. For R handed player, your BH volley contact is out in front of R shoulder. Your hand will be about a foot+ out front of shoulder at contact but the racket head may not be quite as far out as it will likely trail the hand a bit at contact.

Also, move forward to volley and don't wait on the ball to come to you. Moving forward, a bit of shoulder turn when you have time, and contact out front should add some punch.