Help w/approach shot off high, no pace backspin shot

[EddieBrock]

I played a guy that I beat that was basically hit no pace slice in no man's land, moonball, or drop shot. He wasn't a traditional pusher in that he'd go for a winner after a few shots in a rally if he moonballed instead of hitting drop shots or no man's land shots. His basic strategy was to draw me in off a weak approach, then lob or pass.

With this backdrop I was surprised how bad my approaches were off his shot that landed short, with no pace, and backspin. I wasn't missing the approaches and actually beat him pretty easily, but I just couldn't get the pace on them I wanted. Even though I had plenty of time to setup a forehand I'd be set for the shot and then reach either in front or up high so I wouldn't get the pace I wanted.

M< approaches were good enough against him, but against a better opponent is there a trick to time these when you have no rhythm from the rally? I've never had a problem attacking high short balls before. Maybe it's the backspin that messed me up?

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

See if these videos help at all:

 

[LeeD]

I seldom go for winners against high, mid NML shots, even soft ones. Usually chip DTL low and deep, trying to keep the ball low over all else and get to inside service line positioning. I recommend using a volley stroke. If it's at short NML, it often becomes a winner, even though I wanted to volley to create the winner.
If you insist on killing the short high ball at mid or deep NML, better practice it a few thousand times.

 

[EddieBrock]

I seldom go for winners against high, mid NML shots, even soft ones. Usually chip DTL low and deep, trying to keep the ball low over all else and get to inside service line positioning. I recommend using a volley stroke. If it's at short NML, it often becomes a winner, even though I wanted to volley to create the winner.
If you insist on killing the short high ball at mid or deep NML, better practice it a few thousand times.

What do you mean by using a volley stroke?

I'm not trying to kill the approach, just get as much on it as I do without thinking about it when I get a short ball in a "normal" rally.

The videos helped. I used the left foot hop on some of my approaches and it seemed to help. I've never tried rotating the right side around my left leg for more power on high balls before. That could be something I need to try against those floating underspin shots with no pace.

 

[Christian Nguyen]

I just turn my grip to a very extreme grip and hit it as hard as I can

 

[bitcoinoperated]

This should be a put away rather than an approach shot

 

[LeeD]

What do you mean by using a volley stroke?

I'm not trying to kill the approach, just get as much on it as I do without thinking about it when I get a short ball in a "normal" rally.

The videos helped. I used the left foot hop on some of my approaches and it seemed to help. I've never tried rotating the right side around my left leg for more power on high balls before. That could be something I need to try against those floating underspin shots with no pace.

Can you volley? It helps to be able to volley in order to hit side/underspin approach shots.
If you're standing at the baseline, not much chance for a clean winner with a mostly underspin shot.
If you're running up to contact the ball at short NML, a good percentage will be clean winners, if you go deep and corners.
If you're standing inside your service box, a better than 50/50 will be winners, if you just volley stroke them deep and to a corner.
And no matter WHERE you stand, if you volley stroke, or Nadal Loop, your approach shot short and to the forhand side, you will lose the point. Placement is key in approach shots.

 

[LeeD]

All this bravado talk about crushing an inside out forehand for a clean winner from deep NML position is just posturing and bravado.
It's done all the time in WTA and ATP tennis, done at D-1, but once you get down to 4.5 levels, which MOST of us are in, that putaway becomes a 50 % loser.
And at 4.0 and down, that "putaway" is more a brave attempt than a winning proposition.
If you're 5.5 or better, you don't need to listen to advice on any tennis forum, you already know how to strategize and pick your best shots.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

... I'm not trying to kill the approach, just get as much on it as I do without thinking about it when I get a short ball in a "normal" rally.

The videos helped. I used the left foot hop on some of my approaches and it seemed to help. I've never tried rotating the right side around my left leg for more power on high balls before. That could be something I need to try against those floating underspin shots with no pace.

Great to hear that the videos I posted were helpful. These techniques can be employed whether you intend to "kill" the short ball or not.

 

[Power Player]

All this bravado talk about crushing an inside out forehand for a clean winner from deep NML position is just posturing and bravado.
It's done all the time in WTA and ATP tennis, done at D-1, but once you get down to 4.5 levels, which MOST of us are in, that putaway becomes a 50 % loser.
And at 4.0 and down, that "putaway" is more a brave attempt than a winning proposition.
If you're 5.5 or better, you don't need to listen to advice on any tennis forum, you already know how to strategize and pick your best shots.

You are right and even at high collegiate levels they brush it a sharp angle. I know this because I played a current College all american girl last night that was fantastic at putting away short balls. I knew if I gave her one that I was pretty much screwed because she would not miss. She did not pound the ball away, but just brushed it at a sharp angle that was either behind me or at an angle that would pull me wide off the court if I got to it.

 

[LeeD]

You are right and even at high collegiate levels they brush it a sharp angle. I know this because I played a current College all american girl last night that was fantastic at putting away short balls. I knew if I gave her one that I was pretty much screwed because she would not miss. She did not pound the ball away, but just brushed it at a sharp angle that was either behind me or at an angle that would pull me wide off the court if I got to it.

Yeah, I used to get to play a high ranking Junior Girl 12's, and she tries to put the ball way much too often, and almost any reply puts her in a bad position, if the opponent can anticipate in the right direction. Since most groundies are hit a moderately high pace, a short putaway attempt just goes into the groove of the opponent, and it's easier to block for direction than to hit both direction AND create pace off a low backspinning, wierdo sidespin approach shot.
For pros, that's not true, of coruse. But I'm assuming none of us are pros, or have pro level passing shots.

 

[Power Player]

The most important thing is - don't miss your approaches - use spin more than power. The best players put away short balls at a very high %. This is extremely important as over the time of a match it puts doubt in your opponent and causes them to over hit instead of coughing up a short ball.

 

[EddieBrock]

I'm around the 4.0 level and have never had much trouble with approach shots as far as making them, but am trying to put more on them to setup an easy volley. My tendancy is to use too much spin to give me time to come in because against most players I can volley pretty well. Against the pros and people at 4.0 or above I'm getting burned far too often. My problem with the guy I played the other day had more to do with timing it due to the heavy backspin. I'm sure if you were watching it would look like a very easy shot, but the ball had no pace and felt like it went straight up or back towards the net so it was tough to hit with authority. Just a very different shot than what I'm used to as most guys are trying to overpower me so I'm not used to having to create my own pace on a shot like that.

Now I'm beginning to see why playing matches against different styles is so important to be a well rounded player.

 

[LeeD]

As a 4.0, you WILL lose to everyone 4.5 and better, and you will lose to a lot of other 4.0's.
The only sure wins you get is when you play against a 3.5.
Simple practice for you. Stand at NML, drop feed yourself 50 ball that you have to pummel for a putaway, no more than 4' from the sidelines, hit as hard as you can control
Up the 50 to 50 sessions of 50, and you will be able to pummel no pace high bouncing balls from NML.

 

[Limpinhitter]

This should be a put away rather than an approach shot

Correct!

 

[LeeD]

There is no "correct" answer because it depends on the strengths and weaknesses of the player involved.
A what "putaway" shot? You can pummel a topspin ball very fast, and within a foot of the sideline, landing within a foot of the baseline. Nice putaway.
You can drop angle or drop to within 5' of the net, second and third bounce still inside the service box, your opponent expecting a deep ball. Nice putaway.
You can slice a hard low short angle to the intersect of the service box and sideline, or even hit a topspin ball there. Nice putaway.
Which can YOU do most often and consistent, with good accuracy and controlled pace?

 

[coupergear]

I think its an important shot to learn...I think if you can hit this shot consistently you'll improve your ntrp more than many other improvements. I don't think its a pro-level only stroke. I think its like volleys, mostly mental and not rushing. Slow down your mind and your swing...you don't need to pound it, just solid. Most people faced with the sitter try to hit it 100mph. It's like swinging at a volley...all training goes out the window and people swat at it with all their might. Its more mental discipline.

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