How awful must Karlovic's "game" be to still be so little success with that serve.

[anointedone]

Ivo Karlovic has an amazing serve. Most experts would probably say the best serve in mens tennis today. In fact maybe one of the best serves of the open era. Yet he recently hit his career high ranking of #40. In the last 3 years he has a 3-11 record in grand slams, equating to 8 first round losses and 3 second round showings/defeats. The best thing I can say about his career is he does have 2 career titles in singles, and he has a couple very nice Wimbledons, 4th round in 2004 (lost to Federer), and a first round upset over Hewitt in 2003 there.

Andy Roddick's second best shot is his forehand, yet he probably does not have a top 30 forehand in todays game. No other shot outside his forehand is even a top 50 shot in todays game. Yet on his serve primarily even he is #4 in the World. Even he has minimal enough game outside the serve, with the apparent importance of the serve today, to have that success. Yet Karlovic arguably has an even greater serve then Roddick and still has spent about 10 weeks in the top 50.

So how awful must the rest of his game be to not even be able to take advantage of that unbelievable serve to have more success, particularly when you look at what even Roddick has done on the basis of pretty much only a serve.

 

[coloskier]

At 6'10", mobility is his biggest problem. You can have the best strokes in the world, but if you can't get to them to hit them, it doesn't matter much. Roddick's mobility is not as good as a lot of people, but much better than Karlovic.

 

[anointedone]

At 6'10", mobility is his biggest problem. You can have the best strokes in the world, but if you can't get to them to hit them, it doesn't matter much. Roddick's mobility is not as good as a lot of people, but much better than Karlovic.

His groundstrokes and returns look dreadful though. He just pokes at them, and pushes alot into the net. Part of his problem might be he is too tall to bend properly and get on balance to hit them though.

His volleys are not too bad actually.

 

[Hot Sauce]

You make very good points. I don't usually watch him play, but could it be a lack of mental focus?

 

[anchorsteamer]

Ivo Karlovic has an amazing serve. Most experts would probably say the best serve in mens tennis today. In fact maybe one of the best serves of the open era. Yet he recently hit his career high ranking of #40. In the last 3 years he has a 3-11 record in grand slams, equating to 8 first round losses and 3 second round showings/defeats. The best thing I can say about his career is he does have 2 career titles in singles, and he has a couple very nice Wimbledons, 4th round in 2004 (lost to Federer), and a first round upset over Hewitt in 2003 there.

Andy Roddick's second best shot is his forehand, yet he probably does not have a top 30 forehand in todays game. No other shot outside his forehand is even a top 50 shot in todays game. Yet on his serve primarily even he is #4 in the World. Even he has minimal enough game outside the serve, with the apparent importance of the serve today, to have that success. Yet Karlovic arguably has an even greater serve then Roddick and still has spent about 10 weeks in the top 50.

So how awful must the rest of his game be to not even be able to take advantage of that unbelievable serve to have more success, particularly when you look at what even Roddick has done on the basis of pretty much only a serve.

Roddick forehand is without a doubt top 15. Karlovic has a serve, with the rest of his game being 500 level tennis. The question: How awful does that make the rest of his game? The answer: quite a bit less awful than anyone else on this board. Rip Roddick all you want but the guy has a lot of heart on the court, a ridiculous serve, a great forehand, decent movement and an ability to win 80% of his breakers. Tennis is tough...For Karlovic to make tje top 50, even with a top 3 serve is impressive...just shows you how complete the rest of the guys on tour really are.

 

[Marius_Hancu]

He's fine, for his height. Good hands.

 

[tricky]

The question: How awful does that make the rest of his game? The answer: quite a bit less awful than anyone else on this board.

Quoted for truth.

 

[big ted]

Most experts would probably say the best serve in mens tennis today. In fact maybe one of the best serves of the open era. .

dont mean to offend u but what experts are u talking about here ? federer, roddick and johanson all have better serves than he.. and... "one of the best serves of the open era " ?????? are u sure about this ??????

 

[Andres]

dont mean to offend u but what experts are u talking about here ? federer, roddick and johanson all have better serves than he.. and... "one of the best serves of the open era " ?????? are u sure about this ??????

No, they don't. Specially Federer and Roddick. You may have a point with Joachim Johansson being closer to Ivo's, but Karlovic easily out-serves both Fed and Roddick.

 

[big ted]

No, they don't. Specially Federer and Roddick. You may have a point with Joachim Johansson being closer to Ivo's, but Karlovic easily out-serves both Fed and Roddick.

do u mean speed wise or overall better,.. becuz id personally rather have federer's or roddick's serve

 

[Andres]

do u mean speed wise or overall better,.. becuz id personally rather have federer's or roddick's serve

Overall. I'm actually not really interested which one you'd personally want, but I'm trying to be objetive. Karlovic is a better server than Federer. We may have a point about they're 2nd serves, but there's no doubt about it.

 

[Moose Malloy]

Todd Martin said Karlovic had the best serve he's ever faced & he's faced a lot of great servers.

The guy's slow. Really, really slow. So a lot of that serving prowess is negated. Thank god some of these super-agile 6'8" basketball players didn't choose tennis or they'd have to change the rules.
Imagine a guy with Karlovic like serves having Nadal's speed.

 

[Andres]

Todd Martin said Karlovic had the best serve he's ever faced & he's faced a lot of great servers.

The guy's slow. Really, really slow. So a lot of that serving prowess is negated. Thank god some of these super-agile 6'8" basketball players didn't choose tennis or they'd have to change the rules.

Imagine a guy with Karlovic like serves having Nadal's speed.

Scottie Pippen, or Tracy McGrady, perhaps?

 

[theballboy]

do u mean speed wise or overall better,.. becuz id personally rather have federer's or roddick's serve

What a joke.

http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/matchfacts/

Ace count:

Karlovic- 593

Roddick- 472

Federer- 306

Ivo played 30 matches so far this year, Roddick's played 40, Federer 41. One hundred more aces in ten less matches played. Nearly THREE HUNDRED more than Federer. That's three hundred free points off of serve alone, and you'd switch with Fed?

 

[Thor]

Karlovic's serve is overrated.The only reason he's getting so many aces is that he never plays top 20(even top 50)players which can return WAAAAY better than any player on the little tournaments he's playing.
He is lucky to be that tall otherwise he wouldnt be a tennis player

 

[Andres]

What a joke.

http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/matchfacts/

Ace count:

Karlovic- 593

Roddick- 472

Federer- 306

Ivo played 30 matches so far this year, Roddick's played 40, Federer 41. One hundred more aces in ten less matches played. Nearly THREE HUNDRED more than Federer. That's three hundred free points off of serve alone, and you'd switch with Fed?

Plus being #1 at Points won on the 1st serve, and #1 at Service games held. And of course, serving at 66%

 

[ferocious4hand]

What a joke.

http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/matchfacts/

Ivo played 30 matches so far this year, Roddick's played 40, Federer 41. One hundred more aces in ten less matches played. Nearly THREE HUNDRED more than Federer. That's three hundred free points off of serve alone, and you'd switch with Fed?

This is not a fair comparsion, Aces alone don't tell the whole story. What are Ivo's breakpt conversions, 1st serve%, % won on 2nd?

Fed has a good serve, Ivo's hits more aces because he is massive and is able to hit down on the ball

 

[Andres]

Karlovic's serve is overrated.The only reason he's getting so many aces is that he never plays top 20(even top 50)players which can return WAAAAY better than any player on the little tournaments he's playing.
He is lucky to be that tall otherwise he wouldnt be a tennis player

Top50s he's played so far this year (he only played 30 matches). I'm not counting any Challenger match.

Carlos Moya: 21 aces - LOST
Jurgen Melzer: 27 aces - LOST
James Blake (#6): 29 aces - WON
Mardy Fish: 17 aces - WON
Benjamin Becker: 27 aces - WON
Andy Murray (#13): 26 aces (great return of serve) - LOST
Benjamin Becker: 16 aces - WON
Tommy Haas (#10): 12 aces - WON
James Blake (#8): 22 aces - WON
Jonas Bjorkman: 32 aces - LOST
Mardy Fish: 19 aces - WON
Marat Safin: 22 aces - WON
Arnaud Clement: 16 aces - LOST
Stanislas Wawrinka: 10 aces - WON
Dmitry Tursunov: 16 aces - WON
Arnaud Clement: 21 aces - WON

11 wins, 5 loses.

 

[theballboy]

This is not a fair comparsion, Aces alone don't tell the whole story. What are Ivo's breakpt conversions, 1st serve%, % won on 2nd?

Fed has a good serve, Ivo's hits more aces because he is massive and is able to hit down on the ball

Karlovic's second serve % won is surprisingly low. He's 21st on the list. Good thing he has high first serve percentages: He wins 94% of service games. That's the best in the ATP. He also leads in first serve points won (84%) and break points saved (73%)

Fed may have better mechanics and whatnot, but the simple fact is that when the action you're discussing is tossing a ball into the air, and smashing it down from over your head, height gives you an advantage. What I find crazy is that most of the time, Karlovic doesn't even look like he's trying.

 

[Andres]

This is not a fair comparsion, Aces alone don't tell the whole story. What are Ivo's breakpt conversions, 1st serve%, % won on 2nd?

Fed has a good serve, Ivo's hits more aces because he is massive and is able to hit down on the ball

Breakpoints saved: at the top
1st serve % : 66% , one of the best
2nd serve points won: 21th
1st serve points won: 1st
Aces: 1st
Service games held (THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE): 1st.

 

[The Gorilla]

he's actually playing brilliant, he moves very well, is very consistant and has a big forehand, simple fact is that serving and volleying and slice backhands just don't work on slow surfaces.

 

[Moose Malloy]

right, karlovic lost 1st round wimbledon 3 years in a row(while serving like 50 aces each match) because surfaces are too slow.

the guy would be pretty bad in any era, regardless of court speed. he makes becker, philippoussis & rusedski look like michael chang, you do have to be able to move a little to win matches, even on fast surfaces. and even more importantly you have to be able to return decently. I can't think of any other really big server who returns as poorly as Karlovic. Ivanisevic looks like Agassi compared to Karlovic.

 

[tricky]

So that's the thing with Karlovic. Mechanically, his serve is actually not that great. Folks at TP.net were looking at footage breakdown, and neither his racquet drop nor in-out execution is there with the elite servers. Also, there was speculation that his pace vs. topspin ratio isn't as "balanced" as, say, with Roddick or Sampras, which could explain why his 2nd serve isn't higher percentage.

That said, he's so tall AND his arms are so long that it mitigates most of that. You're constantly getting bombed from the sky. That by default makes his 1st serve most lethal in the game.

 

[hewittboy]

Roddick forehand is without a doubt top 15.

Without a doubt? Who without a doubt does Roddick possess a better forehand then out of:

Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Davydenko, Gonzalez, Blake, Berdych, Youzhny, Ferrero, Baghdatis, Moya, Safin, Mathieu, Tursonov, Soderling, Calleri, Almagro, Verdasco, Andreev, Del Potro, Lopez, or Acasuso.

Those are atleast 22 guys who I would definitely not feel that you could say Roddick has "without a doubt" a better forehand then currently, and in fact all guys who I believe he doesnt.

 

[The Gorilla]

right, karlovic lost 1st round wimbledon 3 years in a row(while serving like 50 aces each match) because surfaces are too slow.

the guy would be pretty bad in any era, regardless of court speed. he makes becker, philippoussis & rusedski look like michael chang, you do have to be able to move a little to win matches, even on fast surfaces. and even more importantly you have to be able to return decently. I can't think of any other really big server who returns as poorly as Karlovic. Ivanisevic looks like Agassi compared to Karlovic.

you've obviously haven't seen him play recently, I followed his progress through nottingham and you couldn't be more wrong.

 

[theballboy]

he's actually playing brilliant, he moves very well, is very consistant and has a big forehand, simple fact is that serving and volleying and slice backhands just don't work on slow surfaces.

Karlovic wins 94% of his service games, better than anyone else on tour. He's as close to perfect on serve as you can get. Holding serve is not a problem for him.

His return game, however, is horrible. IMO, speeding up the surfaces would help his opponents far more than it helps him.

 

[The Gorilla]

he can't win any points on a slow surface, he's very adept at winning points on fast surfaces.

 

[ferocious4hand]

Breakpoints saved: at the top
1st serve % : 66% , one of the best
2nd serve points won: 21th
1st serve points won: 1st
Aces: 1st
Service games held (THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE): 1st.

Those are impressive stat for some1 who's ranking in the 40's.

Image if he were a lefty...

 

[anointedone]

I have to wonder why he doesnt work on the rest of his game. With that amazing serve he only needs to be adequate in some other key areas to have some real success. However maybe he does work hard on the rest of his game, and this is as much as he can get out of it. Maybe he is just too big, unathletic, uncoordinated, to ever move faster then a cement block, or return better then Rusedski with two broken wrists.

Still if he isnt putting in some serious work on the rest of his game then shame on him. Since with that serve, and how important the serve is in todays game, he only would need to be decent in a few other key areas and he could do some major things. It is sad to waste all the potential of that amazing serve.

 

[dukemunson]

He's probably already getting everything out of his game that he can. It's not a matter of simply working on something and you'll definetely get better at it, look at the thousands of guys grinding in the futures 45 weeks a year working like crazy to get better, or "adequate".

 

[dukemunson]

Without a doubt? Who without a doubt does Roddick possess a better forehand then out of:

Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Davydenko, Gonzalez, Blake, Berdych, Youzhny, Ferrero, Baghdatis, Moya, Safin, Mathieu, Tursonov, Soderling, Calleri, Almagro, Verdasco, Andreev, Del Potro, Lopez, or Acasuso.

Those are atleast 22 guys who I would definitely not feel that you could say Roddick has "without a doubt" a better forehand then currently, and in fact all guys who I believe he doesnt.

Your list is ridiculous...Baghdatis? Calleri? Youzhny? Wow..

 

[Jonny S&V]

Your list is ridiculous...Baghdatis? Calleri? Youzhny? Wow..

Now don't go dissing the Baghdatis forehand, that thing is way better then Roddick's (certainly more winners). It seems like when Roddick switched to a hybrid strings, he started to hit his forehand with more spin, which meant it didn't penetrate enough. Back in 2003, he was hitting flat forehand winners all the time, now how many times do you see him hitting a flat forehand?

 

[ivo#1fan]

he can't win any points on a slow surface, he's very adept at winning points on fast surfaces.

He won the US Clay Court Championships this year

 

[stormholloway]

Ivo played 30 matches so far this year, Roddick's played 40, Federer 41. One hundred more aces in ten less matches played. Nearly THREE HUNDRED more than Federer. That's three hundred free points off of serve alone, and you'd switch with Fed?

You miss a point. If anyone "had" Ivo's serve then they would have to be 6'10". His serve is great mostly because he is tall, and secondly because it's a good motion.

 

[Jonny S&V]

You miss a point. If anyone "had" Ivo's serve then they would have to be 6'10". His serve is great mostly because he is tall, and secondly because it's a good motion.

It's an okay motion, not say Ivanisevic up there (although they are similar), but it's not a great motion really.

 

[fps]

Karlovic wins 94% of his service games, better than anyone else on tour. He's as close to perfect on serve as you can get. Holding serve is not a problem for him.

His return game, however, is horrible. IMO, speeding up the surfaces would help his opponents far more than it helps him.

Someone made the point earlier- who is he winning these 94% of service games against? Karlovic doesn't play the top top players in the world very often because he doesn't get far enough in tournaments.

I saw him at Wimbledon the round after he knocked out Hewitt. Watching him serve is awesome, the ball hits the back wall 2/3 the way up!

 

[ivo#1fan]

Someone made the point earlier- who is he winning these 94% of service games against? Karlovic doesn't play the top top players in the world very often because he doesn't get far enough in tournaments.

I saw him at Wimbledon the round after he knocked out Hewitt. Watching him serve is awesome, the ball hits the back wall 2/3 the way up!

Did you miss the earlier post. Here are his results against top 50 players this year.

Carlos Moya: 21 aces - LOST
Jurgen Melzer: 27 aces - LOST
James Blake (#6): 29 aces - WON
Mardy Fish: 17 aces - WON
Benjamin Becker: 27 aces - WON
Andy Murray (#13): 26 aces (great return of serve) - LOST
Benjamin Becker: 16 aces - WON
Tommy Haas (#10): 12 aces - WON
James Blake (#: 22 aces - WON
Jonas Bjorkman: 32 aces - LOST
Mardy Fish: 19 aces - WON
Marat Safin: 22 aces - WON
Arnaud Clement: 16 aces - LOST
Stanislas Wawrinka: 10 aces - WON
Dmitry Tursunov: 16 aces - WON
Arnaud Clement: 21 aces - WON

11 wins, 5 loses. That's quality opponents. Compare that to 0 wins against top 40 opponents for James Blake. Who's Ivo beating? Answer: a hell of a lot of the best players in the game. In his career his got a lot of wins over top 10 players. Not getting deep enough in tournaments?!! He's won 2 ATP tournaments this year and was runner up another time.

I admit he ain't the greatest player out there, but he's having a damned good year 21-10 in singles, and he's probably the most dangerous player for the top seeds in any tournament. I know ROddick has said that the first thing he looks at in the draw is to see where Ivo is.

 

[Jonny S&V]

ivo#1fan, just to help fix your add. info, Tsonga isn't over 6'6", he's 6'2".

 

[ivo#1fan]

ivo#1fan, just to help fix your add. info, Tsonga isn't over 6'6", he's 6'2".

No, I well realize that, neither are Tripp Phillips nor Nicholas Monroe, thus just both played for UNC. Canas is short too. Those are the list of the players that I like and on top of that I like most players over 6'6". How would you suggest I reword my tag to satisfy you?

 

[Jonny S&V]

No, I well realize that, neither are Tripp Phillips nor Nicholas Monroe, thus just both played for UNC. Canas is short too. Those are the list of the players that I like and on top of that I like most players over 6'6". How would you suggest I reword my tag to satisfy you?

Sorry, I just saw Tsonga and I had seen Tsonga in person, and I was very ignorant and didn't look at the rest of them. Sorry, jeez.

 

[stormholloway]

It's an okay motion, not say Ivanisevic up there (although they are similar), but it's not a great motion really.

Depends on how you define great. I think it's a great motion but I wouldn't say it's "one of the great" motions historically speaking. It's very Goran-like though you're right, just like all the other Croats.

 

[Moose Malloy]

Goran had a lot more knee bend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXffgXOaSvE

 

[tricky]

Ivo doesn't set up the trophy position until well late into the motion (his racquet drop is relatively "high" compared to other players.) His coil turn isn't as great as most of the other elite servers, including Goran.

 

[dukemunson]

Now don't go dissing the Baghdatis forehand, that thing is way better then Roddick's (certainly more winners). It seems like when Roddick switched to a hybrid strings, he started to hit his forehand with more spin, which meant it didn't penetrate enough. Back in 2003, he was hitting flat forehand winners all the time, now how many times do you see him hitting a flat forehand?

He may not be hitting as many outright winners as before but over the course of a match/year but I'll still take over Baghdatis...its much more consistant for him then Baghdatis's forehand.

 

[helloworld]

Karlovic has the best serve ever.

 

[helloworld]

Oh and super agile basketball players does not always equal great server. Just look at Monfils. He's super agile and tall, but his serve is just good and his success is rather average...

 

[The Gorilla]

Oh and super agile basketball players does not always equal great server. Just look at Monfils. He's super agile and tall, but his serve is just good and his success is rather average...

monfils has an unbelievable serve.

 

[coloskier]

monfils has an unbelievable serve.

Yes, that is why he got beat in the 1st round at Cincinnati by a nobody.

 

[helloworld]

Yes, that is why he got beat in the 1st round at Cincinnati by a nobody.

LOL !!!! that's funny

 

[The Gorilla]

Yes, that is why he got beat in the 1st round at Cincinnati by a nobody.

he got beat because his tennis iq is about the same as your regular iq.