How can Nadal dominate one surface and become GOAT?
- Thread starter Shady_Sawyer
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mike danny
Bionic Poster
Borg and Sampras are not lefties. Tennis is a game of match-ups.
And Borg as well did not solve Mcenore so it is useless to mention him
objectivity
Banned
but lendl solved mcenroe. ;-)
objectivity
Banned
which is especially noteworthy considering
1) according to these forums, courts in the late 70s to 80s were "much faster". i.e. it favored McEnroe's S&V game.
2) Lendl were less than a year younger than McEnroe only.
so i wonder is Fed's failure against Nadal more a function of Fed's failure as a player to find an appropriate solution, or is it really structural as his fans would like to believe? I think the former is more likely, since Lendl has shown that it IS possible to defeat the left hander convincingly despite overwhelming odds.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
What I meant is that not solving Nadal is not going to tell us how he would fare against Borg or Sampras. They would simply be different match-ups
NatF
Bionic Poster
A couple of things, this was the period when graphite racquets entered tennis. This benefited Lendl's power baseline game and hurt McEnroe who was a touch player.
McEnroe was also done contending seriously for slams after 1984 with just one final appearance the next year.
Not surprised by your superficial analysis ignoring the context of the era and McEnroe's career path thereafter.
Exactly, Rafa has beaten the HC GOAT and the grass GOAT, so not an acceptable excuse for Roger. The fact that Rafa has dominated a surface much more thoroughly than Fed has and for a much longer time is a credit to him.
Thriller
Hall of Fame
Federer has a fantastic record against lefties. If a certain Mr Nadal never existed, Federer would have a 89 - 18 record against lefties putting him second on the all time list behind Pete Sampras.
Nadal being a leftie isn't a problem for Federer. Nadal being a more complete player with a hard-as-nails mentality is Federer's problem.
Actually, frankly that is everyone's problem. There is no one in the Top 100 with a positive H2H with Nadal.
If that isn't domination, what is?
As for dominating on hardcourts are we forgetting Nadal's clean sweep of the US hardcourt season last year already?
objectivity
Banned
excellent point. Fed's career % win vs left handers is basically the same as against right handers.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Nadal dominated on HC for only 1 season. Fed did it on multiple seasons. Did you forget how he used to win both HC slams in a season multiple times? And he also won the AO-IW-Miami triple, similar to what Nadal did last year in the US.
As for the first part, my point still stands. Not solving Nadal is not any indicative on how he would fare against Sampras or Borg. They would just be different match-ups
beast of mallorca
G.O.A.T.
Against the likes of one dimensional players in Roddick/Gonzalez/Philippoussis, party going Safin, Big Fat Dave and injury prone Hewitt/Ferrero........sure why not.
Thriller
Hall of Fame
Well 1 is better than 0 which is the number of times that Federer has dominated a claycourt season.
And how many times has Nadal dominated a claycourt season. 8 times. This year without total domination he still secured a ninth FO.
Federer has never dominated hardcourts to that extent.
SublimeTennis
Professional
He can't. But it's MUCH MORE than just clay. ALL COURT surfaces have slowed radically, thereby helping him while simultaneously hurting Federer.
Nadal is in my opinion the greatest of the slow court era, but GOAT is short for greatest of ALL TIME, not of "SLOW COURT ERA".
If Nadal played at any other time, IE 90's you would never had heard of him. He had a horrible time with Rosol SOLELY because the grass was fresh and therefore faster, although much slower than Wimbledon used to be. You can see easy by watching that much what would have happened to him in the 90's or any other era. In addition with his high percentage swing, he wouldn't be able to keep the ball in court because he would be using Gut, so even if he strung it at 70lbs, he would have to adapt and hit much much flatter.
So most people don't understand this, don't worry about those who don't do research but pop off as if they have a clue.
I love Rafa, he hasn't done anything wrong, but think about it, turn pro JUST AS they are slowing down the courts, simultaneously Federer just as he starts to dominate they slow down the courts. If they met in the 90's, Nadal wouldn't get near Federer, it would be a joke, Federer would toy with Nadal.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Well that's better than beating the likes of Verdasco, Youzhny, Gasquet and Robredo, guys Nadal had to beat in HC slams.
Hewitt and Roddick were better in 2004-2005 on HC than all the guys above Rafa faced.
EDIT: Nalbandian, Safin, Davydenko as well were much better than the guys above
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mike danny
Bionic Poster
And you call yourself a fan of Federer. But you just tarnish his legacy like most Nadal fans
Nadal had to beat either Federer or Djokovic to win any of his hardcourt slams. Two of the greatest hardcourters in history. You can't really claim he had weak HC opposition.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
And Federer had to beat Hewitt, Roddick, Safin, all of them having won HC slams. That's not weak HC opposition either. Also he beat Djokovic and Murray as well. Again, not weak HC opposition. He had to contend with 5 guys who have won HC slams
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Bud
Bionic Poster
Djokovic has more HC slams than all three of those guys together.
beast of mallorca
G.O.A.T.
I'm a fan of buttpicker, time wasting Nadal and attention seeking Djoker as well. And so is that injury prone tennis ninja Kei. I can diss anyone of them and their fans. It's just me. Nothing personal. I just say the truth. Federer's legacy will never be tarnished by anything a mere fan like me will say. It is etched in stone my friend.
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