Hybrid using same poly but different gauge

[OrangePower]

I was given some sets of MSV Co-Focus in both 1.27 and 1.18 gauges to experiment with...

Full bed 1.27 was a bit too stiff for my liking, so I figured to try 1.27 in mains and 1.18 in crosses (same tension for both). Idea was that the thinner cross would soften up the stringbed a bit. It does feel better, but made me think whether I would get even better results with the thinner gauge in the main and thicker in the cross.

Before I cut out and restring, anyone have general observations about gauge sizes in mains vs crosses?
Less durable with thinner mains? Or maybe more durable if the thicker cross cuts into the mains less and causes less notching than a thinner cross? What about stiffness of stringbed either way? Spin production?

 

[esgee48]

It depends. If both are at the same tension, thinner mains will slide along the thicker cross even though both are at same ref tension. The thin mains though are really at an effective higher DT. Let's consider thin mains and thick crosses at different ref tensions. Lower tension mains will not slide as well across higher tension crosses. This will feel stiff or boardy or not as plush [whatever term you want to use.] The opposite would yield a more spinny string job. Keep in mind these are generalized since the ref tension plays into this. Too high and the crosses will not deflect at all. Now let's consider thick mains and thin crosses. Lower tension mains may or may not slide across thin crosses. Whether they slide or not depends on which has the higher DT. They should slide, if the interstring friction is not removed, the crosses may be effectively 5-8# lower, which means sliding will occur. If the strings are at ref tension, they may not slide as well because the thinner crosses have a higher DT. Long winded, but you did ask. [Assuming the strings are new and not notched and at ref tension. The thinner string will also lose tension faster than the thicker one, so at some point, the string bed locks up.]

Durable? Thicker will win out tension wise. Notching? Thicker mains will be better then thin mains.

 

[esgee48]

You did not mention what frame and tensions were used in your 1st trial. Based on your remarks, sound like they were strung too high.

 

[OrangePower]

It depends. If both are at the same tension, thinner mains will slide along the thicker cross even though both are at same ref tension. The thin mains though are really at an effective higher DT. Let's consider thin mains and thick crosses at different ref tensions. Lower tension mains will not slide as well across higher tension crosses. This will feel stiff or boardy or not as plush [whatever term you want to use.] The opposite would yield a more spinny string job. Keep in mind these are generalized since the ref tension plays into this. Too high and the crosses will not deflect at all. Now let's consider thick mains and thin crosses. Lower tension mains may or may not slide across thin crosses. Whether they slide or not depends on which has the higher DT. They should slide, if the interstring friction is not removed, the crosses may be effectively 5-8# lower, which means sliding will occur. If the strings are at ref tension, they may not slide as well because the thinner crosses have a higher DT. Long winded, but you did ask. [Assuming the strings are new and not notched and at ref tension. The thinner string will also lose tension faster than the thicker one, so at some point, the string bed locks up.]

Durable? Thicker will win out tension wise. Notching? Thicker mains will be better then thin mains.

Thanks, I think I understood all that, maybe

One thing I didn't quite get... you're saying thinner gauge will have higher DT than thicker at same ref tension? Why is that? I always thought thinner should be strung at a bit higher ref to get similar feel?

Back to my original scenario, originally I had 1.27 for both mains and crosses, both at 48. It was a bit stiff, so I tried going down in tension (still both 1.27) but didn't like it. Now I'm trying 1.27 mains and 1.18 crosses, both still at 48, which feels better but not perfect. If I try 1.18 main and 1.27 crosses both at 48, how in theory would that compare? And/or would you recommend a different combination of tensions? My main goal is increased comfort and feel, without losing too much control. Durability is probably not as important, unless it goes totally out of the window.

 

[OrangePower]

You did not mention what frame and tensions were used in your 1st trial. Based on your remarks, sound like they were strung too high.

Yeah, added tensions in my previous reply. Frame is a medium flex 95 16x20.
MSV Co-focus is not my usual string; I usually string poly anywhere between 43 and 52 depending on the string.
I started with the MSV at 48 and found it a bit stiff, but control was good.
When I tried full bed at 43 I was hitting consistently long due to increased launch angle.
So trying to soften up the string bed without impacting the launch angle too much.

In the more general sense I got curious as to the way the following setups would play/feel relative to each other, assuming all the same string, and all at the same ref tension:
- Thicker full bed
- Thicker main thinner cross
- Thinner main thicker cross
- Thinner full bed

 

[esgee48]

Thicker string has larger diameter or larger cross section. To support ref tension in a string, the tension is supported by the cross section of the string as well as the length. So a thinner string has the same amount of force supported by smaller cross section than thicker string which means it is effectively under more tension. You are confusing ball impact and string deflection when you say 'need same feel' because the thin string will stretch/deflect more upon impact, even with higher DT. This gets confusing because when people move from thin polys to thicker polys, they need to actually increase the ref tension for DT. But this increase may be offset by the difference between string stiffness.

Based on comments, sounds like 46# for the full bed 1.27. For the full bed 1.18, you need to drop the tension ~5# for the same DT as the 1.27. However since the string is less stiff because there is less cross sectional area, I would actual leave it at 48# or 46#. The TWU data shows that generally smaller dia strings are less stiff than larger dia ones, which means more deflection.

- Thicker full bed - see above
- Thicker main thinner cross - not recommended unless thin cross is strung lower by at least 5#
- Thinner main thicker cross - not recommended unless thick cross is strung lower by at least 2#-3# to offset stiffness
- Thinner full bed - see above

This is what I would do. Others may disagree.

 

[OrangePower]

Thicker string has larger diameter or larger cross section. To support ref tension in a string, the tension is supported by the cross section of the string as well as the length. So a thinner string has the same amount of force supported by smaller cross section than thicker string which means it is effectively under more tension. You are confusing ball impact and string deflection when you say 'need same feel' because the thin string will stretch/deflect more upon impact, even with higher DT. This gets confusing because when people move from thin polys to thicker polys, they need to actually increase the ref tension for DT. But this increase may be offset by the difference between string stiffness.

Based on comments, sounds like 46# for the full bed 1.27. For the full bed 1.18, you need to drop the tension ~5# for the same DT as the 1.27. However since the string is less stiff because there is less cross sectional area, I would actual leave it at 48# or 46#. The TWU data shows that generally smaller dia strings are less stiff than larger dia ones, which means more deflection.

- Thicker full bed - see above
- Thicker main thinner cross - not recommended unless thin cross is strung lower by at least 5#
- Thinner main thicker cross - not recommended unless thick cross is strung lower by at least 2#-3# to offset stiffness
- Thinner full bed - see above

This is what I would do. Others may disagree.

Thanks. I'm tempted to try 1.18 main at 48 / 1.27 cross at 45. Will see if any other input but that's what I'm currently thinking.
I want to like this string since a friend recommended it and it's cheap! But maybe it's not to be.

 

[esgee48]

Ah, a string journey. @graycrait embarked on one a long long time ago and he thinks he has finally settled on the ONE combo. If cost is beginning to be a concern because you like Lux or Bab strings, then I would suggest looking at Pros Pro, Genesis or Clarke. You can ignore that last piece if desired. Good luck.

 

[OrangePower]

Ah, a string journey. @graycrait embarked on one a long long time ago and he thinks he has finally settled on the ONE combo. If cost is beginning to be a concern because you like Lux or Bab strings, then I would suggest looking at Pros Pro, Genesis or Clarke. You can ignore that last piece if desired. Good luck.

Was not intending to embark on a string journey! Have been happy with Signum Pro Hyperion at 48.
MSV recommended by a friend as a similar somewhat soft co-poly, at half the cost. Not a huge deal but I go through 2-3 reels a year so...

 

[graycrait]

I didn't really like MSV Focus-Hex when compared to Tour Bite. I'm trying Tier 1 Boost right now as well as Black Code 4GS in mains vs Black Magic in the crosses. Hard to beat Tour Bite x Black Magic, especially at about $5.50/set. Once I use up the Tier 1 Firewire and T1 Boost sets I have as well as the Cyclone, Max Power and BC 4GS I'll fall back on my really low priced poly, Genesis Pro Advantage, Tourna Premier Poly to try and figure out some way to get something that is satisfying with that stuff.

 

[Startzel]

Was not intending to embark on a string journey! Have been happy with Signum Pro Hyperion at 48.
MSV recommended by a friend as a similar somewhat soft co-poly, at half the cost. Not a huge deal but I go through 2-3 reels a year so...

Impressive. How quickly do you pop your string?

 

[OrangePower]

Impressive. How quickly do you pop your string?

I don't usually break them; I typically cut out after 12 hours or so, by which time the feel has changed and the mains are notched maybe 1/3 of the way through. I could probably get another 8 hours before breaking them, but just don't enjoy the feel at that point.
I play about 12 hours per week so end up restringing about once a week.
Not particularly impressive... I have friends who pop strings every 4 hours or so.

 

[bxr]

Thin cross definitely cuts the main a lot quicker. If you use a 1.15 or 1.20mm cross on a 16x19 frame, it won’t last more than 6 hours of hitting (serious notching on the main).

 

[Folsom_Stringer_Musa]

Almost done with half set of MSV Focus-Hex 1.10mm.
Very stiff string even at 1.10mm from my experience. Next time, I will get the softer version. The other half of the set might be my last one as well.
So many other good polys on the softer side, no need to try stiffer polys.

 

[EasternRocks]

It depends. If both are at the same tension, thinner mains will slide along the thicker cross even though both are at same ref tension. The thin mains though are really at an effective higher DT. Let's consider thin mains and thick crosses at different ref tensions. Lower tension mains will not slide as well across higher tension crosses. This will feel stiff or boardy or not as plush [whatever term you want to use.] The opposite would yield a more spinny string job. Keep in mind these are generalized since the ref tension plays into this. Too high and the crosses will not deflect at all. Now let's consider thick mains and thin crosses. Lower tension mains may or may not slide across thin crosses. Whether they slide or not depends on which has the higher DT. They should slide, if the interstring friction is not removed, the crosses may be effectively 5-8# lower, which means sliding will occur. If the strings are at ref tension, they may not slide as well because the thinner crosses have a higher DT. Long winded, but you did ask. [Assuming the strings are new and not notched and at ref tension. The thinner string will also lose tension faster than the thicker one, so at some point, the string bed locks up.]

Durable? Thicker will win out tension wise. Notching? Thicker mains will be better then thin mains.

So, which one is going to offer more of the feedback -- "want to get that ball feel and comfort of the thin, but a bit more of a firmer and solid overall stringbed"? Would it be thinner mains / thicker crosses, where the ref tension is higher in the mains than crosses?