Interesting comment about Sampras and his racquet
- Thread starter sureshs
- Start date
He may have thought he could tell--but he couldn't. I do know that he always wanted the stencil on the same side. He always held the racquet the same way meaning for example when he served he was always striking the ball with same side of the racquet face. He always wanted the little points on the W pointing up when he did his signiture start to his serve holding the ball in the open throat. If the stencil was done on the wrong side the racquet had to be restrung.
AAAA
Hall of Fame
A typical tea spoon holds 5 ml of water. That's 5 grams. Does the article mean ink or the paint that is used to stencil logos? When my stringer stencilled my racquets I noticed how thick the layer of ink was when it started chipping from ball impact. considering the size of the logo I say it's reasonable to use at least a tea spoonful of ink so 5 grams is noticable.
Mad iX
Semi-Pro
The guy wouldn't even switch shoes. I'm surprised he suddenly started wearing wristbands. Whether or not he could actually feel the difference is irrelevant. If he thought he could, then it would've affected him regardless. Most of us know once you start worrying about your equipment, you stop thinking about your game.
Never thought of it that way. 5 g is quite significant, considering that professional racquet techs use grams and not fractions of ounces because it is more accurate. Do they compensate for the weight of the stencil then?
TheKingOfClay
Rookie
man... what a freak... ink weight... what next???
abenguyen
Hall of Fame
shock absorber weight. even the little stickers some shops put on the throat of their racquets to tell what its strung with
Forehand Forever
Professional
I really wish I was getting these issues of Tennis magazine...
They've stopped sending them to me for some reason. But that's pretty funny that Sampras would do that.
They've stopped sending them to me for some reason. But that's pretty funny that Sampras would do that.
Terre Battu
Rookie
Ego............
Years ago, I attended a coachs' seminar with Annacone and Gilbert. Annacone was asked, of course, what he did to fine-tune Sampras' game. He replied, "Well, how do you fine-tune a well-tuned Ferrari?" But he did offer Pete some advice when his serve felt alittle off, suggesting that he adjust his toss abit, which worked. And once when Pete thought his racquet tension felt wrong, he got em restrung, didn't like em, got em restrung again, and still didn't like em. So his stringer (don't know if it was Nate F.) re-calibrated his machine and saw that it was off by a pound. Pete felt that pound difference, which is pretty cool. But the stencil ink? That's gotta be just superstition.
VGP
Legend
I heard a while back that Pete could discern a 1 gram difference in weight.
So, given AAAA's point, it's feasible. Moreso if the weight affects the balance and in the case of stencil ink it would make it more headheavy.....
For me, I can tell about a 3 gram difference. That's the difference in my frames that I'm using now. I've tested myself without looking and using a scale. If I were a bit anal I'd try and adjust one, but I'm not Pete Sampras and my bank account doesn't depend on it.
So, given AAAA's point, it's feasible. Moreso if the weight affects the balance and in the case of stencil ink it would make it more headheavy.....
For me, I can tell about a 3 gram difference. That's the difference in my frames that I'm using now. I've tested myself without looking and using a scale. If I were a bit anal I'd try and adjust one, but I'm not Pete Sampras and my bank account doesn't depend on it.
You have to get a subscription, or be a USTA member in which case they will send it to you free.
goosala
Hall of Fame
Three words describe his condition: Obessive Compulsive Disorder. I understand wanting all of your racquets to be strung, weighted, balanced and even stenciled the same way but a tad too much ink? Sampras' OCD is why the St. Vincent Pro Staffs are making some collectors a ton of money these days. I find it interesting that the older SV Staffs which a lot of people here claim were manufactured "out of spec" are claimed to be the best version of the PS85, PS6.0 or whatever you want to call it. People here have stated that the older SV molds were worn and made the overall thickness of the beam to be 18 mm instead of 17 mm which was the correct spec. Sampras liked the older SV's because they were heavier and stiffer if this explaination holds true. Also, the paintjob changed to 6.0 around 1994 or so. He does not like change. I could have sworn that I saw it to have an SI of 6.1 at one time. Oh, well.
Chauvalito
Hall of Fame
We should all be happy Pete had an ego, otherwise he might not have done as well as he did...
That is, unless your not a Sampras fan...
dragonxking
Rookie
sampras just loves to complain. and by the way, he's not the GOAT, he's the GOHT(greatest of his time)
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
He didn't. The Sampras frame measured by GR is 6 pts HL, but about 13.6 oz.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Mad iX
Semi-Pro
I do that and I always know when I'm holding the racket the wrong way, and it bothers me when I have to hit the ball on the "wrong side".
Probably just one of those things.
oh really
i always thought the go was that sampras had a heavily customised racket, so much that it ended up at even balance
Morpheus
Professional
OCD is a serious disorder and Pete does not suffer from it.
Tennis_Monk
Hall of Fame
Peter Sampras wouldnt notice weight difference by Ink. Its psycological.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
If it is fx 2 grams, I think even I can feel it. Just changed strings from 16 gauge to 17 gauge, the difference is a couple of grams and the racket swings differently.
johnathan smith
Rookie
Not claiming to be in the same galaxy as Sampras, but I recently changed from ALU power 16g to Super Smash 17g in my "FXP" pro tour 630's and can feel the difference. My frames swing MUCH lighter.
VGP
Legend
For those who asked about Roger's stencil ink application.....
Forehand:
Backhand:
I think it's been that way at least he's won Wimbledon in 2003. If you look through pics over the last few years, I don't think it's a coincidence.
As for his racket spinning when returning serve, perhaps he spins it the same every time.
Me, I'm that anal too. I wrap my overgrips in a way that it feels the way that I like it. I start the overgrip on the side opposite where the base of my palm I don't like how it feels when I turn the racket 180 degrees. I hit forehands and serves with one side of the racket, backands with the other side.
Forehand:
Backhand:
I think it's been that way at least he's won Wimbledon in 2003. If you look through pics over the last few years, I don't think it's a coincidence.
As for his racket spinning when returning serve, perhaps he spins it the same every time.
Me, I'm that anal too. I wrap my overgrips in a way that it feels the way that I like it. I start the overgrip on the side opposite where the base of my palm I don't like how it feels when I turn the racket 180 degrees. I hit forehands and serves with one side of the racket, backands with the other side.
lethalfang
Professional
Except for the fact that, for 5 mL of ink, vast majority of the weight is water.
Water evaporates.
Jonny S&V
Hall of Fame
For those who asked about Roger's stencil ink application.....
Forehand:
Backhand:
I think it's been that way at least he's won Wimbledon in 2003. If you look through pics over the last few years, I don't think it's a coincidence.
As for his racket spinning when returning serve, perhaps he spins it the same every time.
Me, I'm that anal too. I wrap my overgrips in a way that it feels the way that I like it. I start the overgrip on the side opposite where the base of my palm I don't like how it feels when I turn the racket 180 degrees. I hit forehands and serves with one side of the racket, backands with the other side.
I use a Dunlop M-fil 200, and with the way I wrap my overgrips and replacement leather grips, I always have to have the little Dunlop arrow pointing up. Going along with the op, Sampras was notorious for being extremely nit-picky about his equipment, but he deserved to. After all, this is THE Pete Sampras we are talking about.
Oh ffs!!! If that's true the guy is a freak.
In various interviews Pete and Nate have given over the years, it was Nate's grip work that Pete liked and why Nate ended up on Pete's "team". We all know Pete had a custom handle, which is part of the reason he could buy up St Vincents - any grip size would do because the handle would be changed. The way an overgrip is wrapped can create grooves, which might give a preferred side to the racquet, but also, Pete's custom handle might have been moulded in a way that suited being held one way rather than the other. I have no idea if that is right, but take a look at some close ups on Getty; the grip is not symmetrical. That could be because of the way the Tournagrip is wrapped, or it could be the mould.
retrowagen
Hall of Fame
There are many high-calibre players who always play with one particular side of the racket "up", and know instinctively (even when spinning the racket between points or between shots during a rally) which side "up" is. Lendl was one of the first who publicly admitted this; his rationale was that the way the grips wrap, there is always one side with a larger lump of grip material beneath and around the butt cap taper, so one side tends to feel better or more natural in the hand than does the other for forehands, serves, and volleys, and backhands (to a lesser extent). Grips are asymetrical, no matter what you do, short of having only a grip sleeve in lieu of a wrapped grip of some sort. McEnroe also weighted his Max 200g's asymetrically, so having the racket a certain side up was crucial to it feeling right in his hand. In earlier days of the sport, trebling was woven across the mains below the bottom cross, and players would tend to keep one finger of the "non-racket" hand extended on the trebling to sense whether one side of the racket was up or the other was. Wood rackets tended, due to their natural composition and wide manufacturing tolerances, a slight difference in mass from one half of the racket to the other; a discerning player would find one side hefted better "down" and the other side felt better "up."
Everyone has their preference. Some don't care at all.
I am sort of Obsessive-Compulsive with my equipment as well. I balance all my frames so that a certain logo on the side edge of the racket is up (less conspicuous than a logo on the other side I don't like as well), align butt caps, and custom wrap grips so that they are entirely uniform from racket to racket. I always play with the same side of the racket down. An interesting result of this practice is that my bumper guards only receive wear on one side.
Everyone has their preference. Some don't care at all.
I am sort of Obsessive-Compulsive with my equipment as well. I balance all my frames so that a certain logo on the side edge of the racket is up (less conspicuous than a logo on the other side I don't like as well), align butt caps, and custom wrap grips so that they are entirely uniform from racket to racket. I always play with the same side of the racket down. An interesting result of this practice is that my bumper guards only receive wear on one side.
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Very true--it is easy to tell without looking what side of the racquet you are hitting with based on the way the grip wraps around the butt end of the racquet. Also one could add that Connors used to add lead tape to his T-2000s and subsequent racquets asymetrically. He would add lead to the racquet at 12 o'clock, then at 3 o'clock and then on the throat but only on the 'top' side of the racquet. There was no lead at 9 o'clock or the other side of the throat. Seemed to work for him just fine. Also, players like Haas and Becker, who like to cradle their racquets with the forefinger of their left hands on the string bed have to have their racquets strung the same side up on the machine everytime so that the knots from the strings won't poke their fingers.
But having said all that I still think the bit about the difference in weight of stencil ink is a bunch of hooey.
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Excellent point that too.
AAAA
Hall of Fame
Depends what type of ink. Writing ink for fountain pens is very liquid but the stuff used for stencils is much thicker and I really don't think 5ml is enough to paint two big 'W' logos onto the strings so even accounting for evaporation I still think the weight increase is at least 4 grams and I can easily feel a 4 gram weight difference when sticking 4 grams of lead tape at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions.
Well I was going to shed some light on this but the battery in my digital scale is dead. Anyone with a digital scale and some stencil ink can quickly calculate how many grams we are talking about here. Just weigh the bottle and then apply a normal stencile to a racket and weigh the bottle again. I'll be surprised if it's even two grams.
retrowagen
Hall of Fame
How about weigh the RACKET before and after? Some quantity of stencil ink is wasted as spray that comes off the fuzzy bottle applier. Do this over an unprotected table or desk and you'll know what I mean.
I used to think that having a stencil on my strings helped me find the centre of the strings more consistently - seeing the centre of the stringbed more clearly with my peripheral vision - thus play better, but I now believe it was merely a mental prop and now makes no difference at all. I'd suspect that the weight of the ink of a stencil on a set of strings would be so negligible that it would not make any tangible [non-mental] difference to even the most sensitive pro.
P
PrestigeClassic
Guest
Yes, it would make more sense to weigh the frame before and after, which would also solve the mystery of how much water evaporates as the ink dries. A frame can be quickly stenciled on both sides and immediately placed again on a scale.
Yes, I've heard before that Sampras could tell the difference of a gram in mass. Just because some of you posters can't feel the difference of a gram doesn't mean anybody else in the world has the exact same level of sensitivity. Everybody is different. However, Sampras had no problems playing without a Wilson stencil during the times he was out of a Wilson contract. That brings up the question, if a light stencil has as much as a gram of mass, were those frames modified to compensate for lack of stencil? My guess is that a nice light stencil application has less than a gram of mass.
Actually, I think the bad point of a liberally-applied stencil is its sloppy nature. For those who feel a difference with a thicker stencil, it probably is at least partly due to the increase of wind resistance, not mass per se. Also, with too much gunk, the strings are a bit more stubborn to lock back into place and feel different in one's hand while doing so.
I still have my bottles of Gamma ink from around 1999 and have applied only nice light stencils in those times I didn't mind giving free advertising :twisted:
By the way, that's interesting that the practice of playing with the same side of the frame went back to the days of trebling
AAAA
Hall of Fame
huh, you have spray on ink? In that case 5 grams is a lot. The stencil ink i'm talking about is thick and comes in a tube and is brushed onto the strings.
I don't see it on tv now but in the 90s the players were sometimes seen on tv touching up the logos with ink on a tube. Any one remember this?
Azzurri
Legend
Have you ever hit with a SV?
I could easily tell you why Pete refused to play the newer Taiwan/China model...FEEL. The SV feel completely differet than the models produced in Asia. I have a few SV's and also had a brand new China model...sold it after a few sets because it felt nothing like the SV. Its a pretty simple reason why Pete chose to play only the SV. I agree people pay too much for the racquet if the reason is Pete played it, but for people that love how it feels than paying a high price is understandable.
P
PrestigeClassic
Guest
I think retro was referring to a stencil ink bottle, too, pretty much the only form of stencil ink application that is used. There is usually overspray, which is why newspaper or similar is commonly placed under a frame as it is stenciled. Do you stencil frames directly over your grand piano
I don't remember 90's players touching up stencils unless they were applying whole stencils before a match. If you saw this between points, then what you likely saw was a string-saver tool, which was common to use in the time of gut string.
MaximRecoil
Rookie
I'd forgotten all about that stuff, and I never knew it was called "trebling". I remember seeing it on wooden rackets when I was a kid. What was the purpose of it?
