Is the DHH knot a sign of inexperience/laziness?

[ryushen21]

I was restringing racquets for a few of my players who had their racquets strung by the store where they bought them. My first concern was when I saw some of the tie-off locations were questionable and then I saw the knots and they were almost all DHH.

I understand DHH is probably the easiest knot to use when starting out. However, it feels like most stringers switch to different knots at some point as they find a better or more stable knot to use.

What do you guys think?

 

[kkm]

I don't use the DHH, but IMHO it's about how it's tied. I've seen a few well-done DHHs, and I've also seen DHHs, such as on a racquet a customer brought me recently, on which the first loop of the DHH is sucked waaay deep into the grommet. Tieoff locations are also important.

 

[Bambooman]

It's a sign of knowing when something is good enough and leaving it at that.

 

[dgdawg]

I don't use the DHH, but IMHO it's about how it's tied. I've seen a few well-done DHHs, and I've also seen DHHs, such as on a racquet a customer brought me recently, on which the first loop of the DHH is sucked waaay deep into the grommet. Tieoff locations are also important.

I've been stringing for 20+ years and I've always used a double 1/2 hitch. Personally, I feel it's as or more secure than others and looks better. Both "knots" need to be threaded on the same side of the anchor string and in the same direction.

 

[kkm]

I've been stringing for 20+ years and I've always used a double 1/2 hitch. Personally, I feel it's as or more secure than others and looks better. Both "knots" need to be threaded on the same side of the anchor string and in the same direction.

That’s why I don’t think there’s a problem with the knot but with people often not tying it properly.

 

[dgdawg]

That’s why I don’t think there’s a problem with the knot but with people often not tying it properly.

I've had discussions with other stringers about this very thing. I typically get something like "yeah, it's the newest thing" or "if so & so developed it & uses it, it must be better"
In my personal opinion, a double half hitch tied correctly is an attractive and secure knot.

 

[ryushen21]

That’s why I don’t think there’s a problem with the knot but with people often not tying it properly.

That’s a fair point. I just know that of the knots that I’ve seen done poorly or that are coming undone, about 90% of them have been DHH. There haven’t been a whole lot of examples of well executed DHH knots for me.

I am partial to the Parnell myself.

 

[LOBALOT]

I prefer the pro knot as after the hitch everything is above the racquet face which I find easier with the fixed clamp right there.

 

[esgee48]

I can tie all three properly. However my 1st preference is the DHH. If I have to do multiple frames, I will identify them with different knots. They like that cuz they don’t need to mark them 1-3.

 

[Cobra Tennis]

It's probably the first tie-off knot most stringers learn as it is easily passed down.

Nothing wrong with it, and there's a lot of ways to skin a cat.

 

[SavvyStringer]

I was restringing racquets for a few of my players who had their racquets strung by the store where they bought them. My first concern was when I saw some of the tie-off locations were questionable and then I saw the knots and they were almost all DHH.

I understand DHH is probably the easiest knot to use when starting out. However, it feels like most stringers switch to different knots at some point as they find a better or more stable knot to use.

What do you guys think?

I would say inexperience or longevity. Easy knots for most starter stringers but also many older stringers that was the accepted knot and it's what they've used their whole careers. There's a proshop owner locally that has been stringing 50 years and uses double half hitch on everything. That's what he was taught and what he's been doing the whole time. I wouldn't necessarily call it lazy, its's basically the same amount of movement to tie a DHH as it is to do a parnell or pro knot. It's just knowledge, comfort, and preference.

 

[struggle]

No. Not lazy, but I prefer a Parnell or pro knot.

 

[jim e]

The only knot I have ever seen come completely untied, was back in early 1970's, on a wooden racquet, it was a different stringer, not me, that just tied a single half hitch. Usually, knots don't come untied. Now I have seen plenty of double hh knots where the end hh was very loose, looking to come undone, but that's it.

 

[loosegroove]

I don’t think a double half hitch is a sign of laziness or inexperience, as others have said, some stringers just prefer it. However I do feel like a properly cinched Parnell does demonstrate that the stringer at some point had taken the initiative to learn beyond the basics, or was taught by someone who had.

 

[stapletonj]

IMHO - DHH OK - X needs a bulkier knot to start so no pull through.

 

[ryushen21]

The only knot I have ever seen come completely untied, was back in early 1970's, on a wooden racquet, it was a different stringer, not me, that just tied a single half hitch. Usually, knots don't come untied. Now I have seen plenty of double hh knots where the end hh was very loose, looking to come undone, but that's it.

As I've thought about it more, most of the DHH I have seen coming undone were syn gut or nylon. I've rarely seen it be an issue with poly unless there was something else wrong with the knot.

I don’t think a double half hitch is a sign of laziness or inexperience, as others have said, some stringers just prefer it. However I do feel like a properly cinched Parnell does demonstrate that the stringer at some point had taken the initiative to learn beyond the basics, or was taught by someone who had.

Fair point.

IMHO - DHH OK - X needs a bulkier knot to start so no pull through.

I use a Parnell for all of my knots.

 

[AM Stringing]

I was restringing racquets for a few of my players who had their racquets strung by the store where they bought them. My first concern was when I saw some of the tie-off locations were questionable and then I saw the knots and they were almost all DHH.

I understand DHH is probably the easiest knot to use when starting out. However, it feels like most stringers switch to different knots at some point as they find a better or more stable knot to use.

What do you guys think?

In my opinion, it's not a sign of laziness or inexperience as others have mentioned. However, in a recent poll that I posted, here are the results of the tie-off knots used by stringers.

10% - Double Half-Hitch​

22% - Wilson Pro Knot​

68% - Parnell Knot​

Here's the video where I share my experience and insight of these knots.

 

[aussie]

Nothing wrong with the DHH knot, it looks neat, is bulky enough and won't come undone if tied correctly but I prefer the Parnell for one important feature - it's easier than the DHH to remove the slack when tieing off.

I use a bulky starting knot when starting the crosses and one more important knot to have in your armory is the Iknot. It is a very bulky tie off knot used when the tie off grommet is so enlarged that a DHH or Parnell will partially pull through.

The Iknot is quite a tricky knot to tie and is ugly because of it's bulk and I have to thank @Irvin for sending me a video of him doing it. I made a diagram from his video of how to tie it and refer to it when the need arises.

Those are all the knots the home stringer needs IMO - keeping it simple, effective and enjoyable to string.

 

[Wes]

The Iknot Sash Weight Knot is quite a tricky knot to tie and is ugly because of it's bulk...

There.
Fixed that for you.

BTW, it's certainly no trickier to tie than the "standard" starting knot (which, in turn, is actually just half of a Grapevine/Double Fisherman's Knot/Double Fisherman's Bend).

 

[Irvin]

Not true, the sash weight knot is like the starting knot where the twist and the tag end go down the anchor string.

 

[swb]

Not true, the sash weight knot is like the starting knot where the twist and the tag end go down the anchor string.

From memory of a long time ago, the knots on my sash weights were tied like Wes's video. By the way I use yours.

 

[Wes]

...my sash weights were tied like Wes's video.

I don't have a knot video... nor did I post a link to any knot video.

 

[swb]

I don't have a knot video... nor did I post a link to any knot video.

Good morning. I'm a little more awake now. I went from your sash weight knot reference to

 

[LOBALOT]

Sure looks like iknot not iknot.

Either way I not iknot

 

[Irvin]

Good morning. I'm a little more awake now. I went from your sash weight knot reference to

That video to found is a stopper knot or a double overhand knot.

 

[LOBALOT]

Either way you call it (other than iknot) it sure looks like the knot.

 

[Rabbit]

A sash knot is a sash knot and would be a sash knot by any other name, with apologies to William Shakespeare.

 

[LOBALOT]

A sash knot is a sash knot and would be a sash knot by any other name, with apologies to William Shakespeare.

Awesome! Very well put William the Rabbit!

 

[austintennis2005]

I do the dhh but honestly to me it seems the first hh is enough to hold the knot.
I’ve run out of string before and done a single hh and never had it come undone

 

[Sardines]

I'm not sure if it's unprofessional but it is very practical to minimize wastage. My kids use a DHH knot on their sticks because they have very short tails. They use pliers to secure the knot. They squeeze 38 restrings from a 200m reel for the crosses. They use a little more with mains at 37 half sets from a 200m. This is only possible because of the Pro Stringer we have, which pulls from the frame.

 

[WYK]

When I have run nearly out of string at the tie off, if I have to sneak the last bit of it around and thread it through, it's gonna end up in a double half hitch.

 

[Wes]

I'm not sure if it's unprofessional but it is very practical to minimize wastage. My kids use a DHH knot on their sticks because they have very short tails. They use pliers to secure the knot. They squeeze 38 restrings from a 200m reel for the crosses. They use a little more with mains at 37 half sets from a 200m. This is only possible because of the Pro Stringer we have, which pulls from the frame.

The bolded portion is an inaccurate statement.

It is possible with other machines as well.

 

[Sardines]

The bolded portion is an inaccurate statement.

It is possible with other machines as well.

Fair enough. I forget you can use a starter clamp and pull from that. Still an extra step, but I stand very corrected.

 

[Humbi_HTX]

I though I had it twisted but you guys are knots.

 

[LOBALOT]

I though I had it twisted but you guys are knots.

It started out on the DHH and ended up being a discussion on the notiknot.

 

[vokazu]

My favourite knot is PC knot. It's stronger than Parnell knot for very slippery strings.

 

[mad dog1]

I prefer to use Parnell and Wilson Pro knots but occasionally when the tails are too short, I’ll use the DHH.

 

[eric42]

DHH seems to mangle the grommet less to my eye. Parnell causes the tail to mash a bit against the grommet.

 

[mad dog1]

DHH seems to mangle the grommet less to my eye. Parnell causes the tail to mash a bit against the grommet.

the parnell knot is very friendly on tie off grommet tubes if you know the technique to properly set it where it sits against the frame.

 

[graycrait]

I'm not a mountain climber but I used to tie in NFL football players in a high ropes course in 1989 as well as doing rappelling. Fast forward to when I got my NEOS 1000 in 2014. I thought the DHH was fine for stringing a tennis racket until I got "shamed" into learning another knot, Wilson Pro Knot, which I think is essentially a granny knot but it is what I have used the last few years including as a starting knot. All this tennis string knot thing is kind of fascinating to me, especially in light that I used to tie jigs and flies, and all sorts of fishing knots. The only thing you have to do with a tennis string knot is stop the string from losing tension at tie off and not slipping before the string goes dead or breaks. Because I used to string a lot of Ashaway Kevlar and Zyex I found that to stop loss of tension at tie off could be essentially eliminated by using an awl and Babolat cam pliers. I find the discussion of which knot is best on a tennis racket amusing. If you string a racket and no string breaks at the knot or you lose no tension who cares what knot? Complex does not make it necessarily better or more cost effective regardless of how much folk like to make stringing a racket an art form. Speed, accuracy and no stringing induced failure is the key. Art knots have a place but not in tennis:...

 

[Wes]

...I got "shamed" into learning another knot, Wilson Pro Knot, which I think is essentially a granny knot...

The so-called "Wilson Pro Knot" isn't actually a Granny Knot.
It's merely an Overhand Knot (that happens to get tied around an anchor string).

 

[graycrait]

The so-called "Wilson Pro Knot" isn't actually a Granny Knot.

Granny knot - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

OK, OK Wes, you are one of the good guys in stringing. But to string a racket in 10 minutes and tie off reliable knots is a business efficiency thing, not something that requires ages of contemplation. DHH is good enough, Wilson or Parnell are fine. Classic Startring knot OK too. I found Classic Starting knot no better or worse than using a Wilson as a starting knot. I did find that a Wilson was somewhat more efficient over time to start and tie off. I'm pretty much done stringing.

 

[mad dog1]

I'm not a mountain climber but I used to tie in NFL football players in a high ropes course in 1989 as well as doing rappelling. Fast forward to when I got my NEOS 1000 in 2014. I thought the DHH was fine for stringing a tennis racket until I got "shamed" into learning another knot, Wilson Pro Knot, which I think is essentially a granny knot but it is what I have used the last few years including as a starting knot. All this tennis string knot thing is kind of fascinating to me, especially in light that I used to tie jigs and flies, and all sorts of fishing knots. The only thing you have to do with a tennis string knot is stop the string from losing tension at tie off and not slipping before the string goes dead or breaks. Because I used to string a lot of Ashaway Kevlar and Zyex I found that to stop loss of tension at tie off could be essentially eliminated by using an awl and Babolat cam pliers. I find the discussion of which knot is best on a tennis racket amusing. If you string a racket and no string breaks at the knot or you lose no tension who cares what knot? Complex does not make it necessarily better or more cost effective regardless of how much folk like to make stringing a racket an art form. Speed, accuracy and no stringing induced failure is the key. Art knots have a place but not in tennis:...

Yeah, more complex is not always better. DHH knots are very effective and perfectly fine to use when there’s ample room. On some frames where a main string is situated very close to the tie off cross string, there’s not enough room for a bulkier knot. In these cases, the more compact wilson pro knot fits better.

 

[Irvin]

A half hitch is nothing more than a kink in the string making the sharpest turn in the string you can make. When the half hitch is tightened it put a lot of stress on the outside radius of the string weakening the knot. The thicker and stiffer the string is the more that turn wants to unwind itself. When the half hitch is rocked, you’re also weakening the short section of string coming out of the half hitch making a DHH even worse. The half hitch is also the smallest tie off knot creating a knot that will pull into the grommet easier.

When tying off, if the anchor string is on top of the intersecting string, there is more than enough room to tie a knot above the intersecting string and the knot will easily slide right up to the grommet. If mains are tied to mains and crosses to cross the clamp will never get in the way when you tie off. You also get the added benefit of not tying two mains togethe, making removal of the old strings easier.

Now the issue is what knot is the easiest knot to tie. I like to use an overhand knot (aka Parnell and Pro knot,) the one knot everyone knows how to tie. No more learning a new knot. First you create a loop on one side of the string then go around and back through the loop. The difference between the Parnell type knot and the Pro type knot is the Parnell type goes around the anchor string twice. Because the Parnell type goes through both of the two loops, it creates the largest loops which have the largest radii, and IMO makes for the strongest knot.

My machine has a knot function on it and I use it when tying knots. If I didn’t have a knot function I would not increase the tension when I tie off. I also think too many stringers try to tie their knots too tight. It is not necessary and may result in breaking the string. I used to try and have the least amount of string left over to throw away. Now I try to have at least one foot (30 cm) of string so I can get a flatter angle to pull the knot parallel to the anchor string once, then I pull the tail through with a much lighter pressure.

To finish the knot I clip the tail with my flush cutter so the flat side of the cutters is against the frame. I try to keep the tip of string 3/16 inch (5 mm) long. Once the tail Is cut off I use the rounded portion of a starting clamp to push the sharp tip of string against the frame so the player does not stick it in his fingers.

End of story why and how I use the Parnell knot (overhand knot) now, and why I don’t use other knots.

 

[Rabbit]

 

[AceyMan]

DHH seems to mangle the grommet less to my eye. Parnell causes the tail to mash a bit against the grommet.

DHH is hard on the grommet because it's narrow and sits down into the grommet too deeply.

I've seen frames strung three times with DHH and the grommets are nearly shot.

It also is harder on the string under tension since it only rests over one width of string, not two (websearch: bend radius stress for deets).

The DHH needs to die.

 

[aussie]

DHH is hard on the grommet because it's narrow and sits down into the grommet too deeply.

I've seen frames strung three times with DHH and the grommets are nearly shot.

It also is harder on the string under tension since it only rests over one width of string, not two (websearch: bend radius stress for deets).

The DHH needs to die.

I had a Prince Thundercloud Ti for over 20 years that was strung more than 80 times using DHH for all tie-offs and the grommets were still fine when I retired it. All depends on the quality of the grommets I suspect.

 

[AceyMan]

The DHH needs to die.

Not to mention, it's also just a sh**ty knot.

The top hitch is basically useless for adding security.

And as I already complained, it's a poor stopper knot (which is why it buries in the grommet too deeply).

If we expect people to use a dead easy knot because anything else is "just too hard" let's endorse the Pro Knot (= just an overhand knot around the tie off string).

/Acey