overall, this one is pretty good on the issues he addresses.....he make the good point about not rotating so much ..... I do it a bit different, but this is another look at the same issue.
“Keep your head up” is his way of saying “keep the power of the serve directed up, at the ball. Not out at the service box”Did he read my question on tt? He says don't over-rotate, but what exactly do you check/do to prevent it? He said one thing - keep the head up. You can keep the head up and still over-rotate..
Imo Fed has a bit of a waist bend/collapse to compensate for not tossing much into the court. I guess he is concerned about launching into the court too much if his serve doesn't do enough damage.....Sasha Z was collapsing and dropping into his serve a bit as well.Not sure how relevant the straight vs bent hips is to good serving.
Look at this video, at 0:45. His hips are clearly bent (flexed) on contact. He does it on all his serves, but you see it most clearly at 0:45.
I was under the impression that RF pulled his lower body up to match the upper body at the moment of hitting through the ball. The opposite and equal pull of the lower body allowed his upper body to move faster/hit harder.Imo Fed has a bit of a waist bend/collapse to compensate for not tossing much into the court. I guess he is concerned about launching into the court too much if his serve doesn't do enough damage.....Sasha Z was collapsing and dropping into his serve a bit as well.
Looking at this serve I'm having a hard time thinking Federer is hitting UP as opposed to hitting FORWARD.
Up and forward maybe? Like 45 degrees up.Looking at this serve I'm having a hard time thinking Federer is hitting UP as opposed to hitting FORWARD.
Maybe it's all terminologies or point of view.
FYI, Fed has one of the highest contact points on tour, comparable to someone around 6'6" so I feel like he is going for height not depth to open angles and keep his 1sv% high.Imo Fed has a bit of a waist bend/collapse to compensate for not tossing much into the court. I guess he is concerned about launching into the court too much if his serve doesn't do enough damage.....Sasha Z was collapsing and dropping into his serve a bit as well.
Ok, but for me, the significance of 'more forward' instead of 'more up' is about easy power and better control....the only advantage to straight up would be not getting caught "up in the court' for a jammer or tough shot to the corner.FYI, Fed has one of the highest contact points on tour, comparable to someone around 6'6" so I feel like he is going for height not depth to open angles and keep his 1sv% high.
J
@AnyPUG
I guess up, forward or down or whatever is matter of where your mind is focused on.
Let's use your picture.This is an actual serve that went in - it's the back of the ball, almost at 80 degrees.
It was going up until 90, and now it's on a downward path (since it has already reached past 80 from 90). But the point is that it had to go "UP" to 90 first to the highest point of your reach.
Why is the serve considered hitting up and not forward? These two pictures illustrate what's really going on.
Both hand and racket head move up a lot more than move forward (up until the contact point)?? In my estimation, path traveled up is 2.5 times the forward portion.
It was going up until 90, and now it's on a downward path (since it has already reached past 80 from 90). But the point is that it had to go "UP" to 90 first to the highest point of your reach.
Actually the racquet was going up through the whole period of contact which you can see paying attention to the space between the visible upper end of frame and the screen edge:yeah... that's why I said it's a matter of your focal point. Your focus is on the segment immediately before the CP.
My mind processes the CP.
That's interesting. It could be going up, extremely slightly.Actually the racquet was going up through the whole period of contact which you can see paying attention to the space between the visible upper end of frame and the screen edge:
Racquet face being tilted is not enough to say it's on the downward path.
That’s possible of course, we don’t know the camera setup. But key is - it’s not going down perpendicular to the stringbed orientation. The ball actually gets some topspin which is seen thanks to “8” drawn on it.That's interesting. It could be going up, extremely slightly.
Or, it could be a camera effect. The racket (by rightie serve which this one is) could be slightly going to the right or toward the camera. Objects in camera appear to move up as they get closer to the len.
Of course racquet head mostly goes forward from slightly before to slightly after contact. It’s important to understand, that this motion of racquet head is dominantly it’s pivot - over and around the hand. It’s inevitable motion since end of reach is achieved (with forearm-shaft angle in mind). That’s also the reason why it goes towards camera - follows and surpasses hand path pivoting around.Anyway, for practical purposes my mind cannot care about this slight up or down (so tiny) but rather the FORWARD component which is seen like the biggest, most obvious thing here.
Actually the racquet was going up through the whole period of contact which you can see paying attention to the space between the visible upper end of frame and the screen edge:
Racquet face being tilted is not enough to say it's on the downward path.
Yeah the 8 figure showing the spin direction indicates where the racket frame is going and it's suggesting that it's going toward the camera.
Anyway, for practical purposes my mind cannot care about this slight up or down (so tiny) but rather the FORWARD component which is seen like the biggest, most obvious thing here. Hence my post #7.
It's like the FH. From this configuration (shown in the Federer pix), the racket head has to first go around then straight to the ball, does your mind process the "around" piece or the "straight" piece?
Not me. I don't force or bend the "around" aspect but I aim to process the relatively straight segment going through the CP. This relatively straight line points in the direction where I want to send the shot, ie extend into that direction.Around.
J
Not me. I don't force or bend the "around" aspect but I aim to process the relatively straight segment going through the CP. This relatively straight line points in the direction where I want to send the shot, ie extend into that direction.
My mind process the part in the green box. Not the red box.
That's unmistakably me .You are a straight shooter, er hitter!
Not me. I don't force or bend the "around" aspect but I aim to process the relatively straight segment going through the CP. This relatively straight line points in the direction where I want to send the shot, ie extend into that direction.
My mind process the part in the green box. Not the red box.
If you observe "green box" part of swing from back or front perspective, you'll see strong outward direction, not straight line in the direction of the shot. First hand, then racquet head.Not me. I don't force or bend the "around" aspect but I aim to process the relatively straight segment going through the CP. This relatively straight line points in the direction where I want to send the shot, ie extend into that direction.
My mind process the part in the green box. Not the red box.
If you observe "green box" part of swing from back or front perspective, you'll see strong outward direction, not straight line in the direction of the shot. First hand, then racquet head.
And what shape is this "strong outward direction"?If you observe "green box" part of swing from back or front perspective, you'll see strong outward direction, not straight line in the direction of the shot. First hand, then racquet head.
So where it goes across again (to the left) and wraps around?the follow thru extending thru the shot is the best part that my mind processes.
Not sure I follow your thought process now.So where it goes across again (to the left) and wraps around?
Not sure I follow your thought process now.
But that's what it is. A thought process. Some mental image that one finds useful for himself. That's the point that you and Jolly don't seem to grasp.
The mental process that I do for myself is I don't get botched down by the many curves or movements of the racket other than the "line" that goes thru the ball.
Not sure I follow your thought process now.
But that's what it is. A thought process. Some mental image that one finds useful for himself. That's the point that you and Jolly don't seem to grasp.
The mental process that I do for myself is I don't get botched down by the many curves or movements of the racket other than the "line" that goes thru the ball.
I appreciate your input, especially when you ...use...more than a couple words.You are 100% right, and it depends on what you are starting with. Just like I might tell one student to stay down and another to push with the legs I can tell one line to the target and another to go around the outside of the ball.
J
The combination of hitting forward and up together creates the momentum to get him off the ground while he goes forward into the court. If he were just hitting forward he wouldn’t come off the ground like he does.Looking at this serve I'm having a hard time thinking Federer is hitting UP as opposed to hitting FORWARD.
Maybe it's all terminologies or point of view.
so are you focused on the Rh, because that area you reference is where the hand has changed course and is no longer moving out towards contact, but has turned enough to be working back inwardThe mental process that I do for myself is I don't get botched down by the many curves or movements of the racket other than the "line" that goes thru the ball.
also worth noting that 'up' can be referenced from the body position.....meaning that if you launch up at a 10-15 degree angle up & forward with your lift up towards contact, this body position creates a new perspective for upward orientation. 90 degrees direction from the body/torso orientation could be perceived as 15 degr down, so the idea up serving up 10 degr could be going 5 degree down in reference to the court. This info has help many of my players.That’s possible of course, we don’t know the camera setup. But key is - it’s not going down perpendicular to the stringbed orientation. The ball actually gets some topspin which is seen thanks to “8” drawn on it.
Could you explain what you mean by "the hand has changed course and is no longer moving out towards contact, but has turned enough to be working back inward"?so are you focused on the Rh, because that area you reference is where the hand has changed course and is no longer moving out towards contact, but has turned enough to be working back inward
use the '>' button....guess you know that method, right?Could you explain what you mean by "the hand has changed course and is no longer moving out towards contact, but has turned enough to be working back inward"?
You could link a youtube video and reference a time to show your point.