k90. what will i do.

[Mick]

Before his win in Hamburg, some people on this board said the K90 was too demanding for Roger Federer (let alone a 3.0/3.5 player). They wanted him to switch to a bigger size racquet.

 

[drakulie]

Just a second here. Now you are saying that a racquet that is heavier, and has a smaller head than the K90 is more demanding?

No. Notice I put quotes around "more demanding". I'm using/quoting the words of people on these boards.

 

[Brad Smith]

You think the thousands upon thousands of people who bought this frame are all 5.0 players. I also have the "opinions" of many, many people on these boards who are not 5.0 players who currently use the k90.

No, nor do I think that many of the thousands and thousands of people who buy 4 wheel drive SUV's will ever go offroading. People make purchasing decisions for many reasons including ones that are purely superficial. Playing with the "Federer" racket has a certain appeal and people have an incredible psychological ability to justify their decisions after the fact. It's much more meaningful to hear opinions from people who have nothing invested in the frame, i.e. playtesters and reviewers.

Perhaps that's what you do>> go around tennis courts wondering if this player or that player would benefit more from this racquet or that racquet as if you are the end all be all of racquet selection. But then again, as you said >>> you are a "snob".

Actually I don't do that much at all because in my experience most people have figured out already what works for them. The vast majority of players do not obsess about specs and paintjobs and poly/gut hybrids like the community on these boards. Offline I have helped a number of people find better frames for their games, sometimes going from more demanding to less demanding and sometimes going in the other direction as their skills improve.

I don't "wonder" >> I could care less, and it doesn't make a difference.

Finally you've said something I agree with namely that you could care less. All you really seem to care about is arguing and boosting your post count.

 

[rosenstar]

I'm I the only one who read the little thing that said "suggested for 5.0+ level players" in tennis magazine next to the picture of the k90?

 

[drakulie]

Tennis Magazine is afraid to say it's a 5.0+ racket because they get money from Wilson advertising.

It's much more meaningful to hear opinions from people who have nothing invested in the frame, i.e. playtesters and reviewers.

Hmmm, so one hand you say TM rates it 4.5 because they are paid by Wilson, but now you say they don't have anything invested in the frame.

 

[FedUp]

Drakulie, what happened to the Yoda avatar. Don't get me wrong, I like the one you have now. But poor Yoda! First the change to Volkl, now this?!

 

[drakulie]

In honor of Ana Ivonovich. Yoda will be back. I gave him the night off.

 

[[K]aotic]

tired, he is

 

[AlpineCadet]

Its kind of funny to read these racquet selection rules.

Do you think Roger Federer was a 4.0 player the time he picked up a PS85?
Do you think Pete Sampras had much of a choice when he learned to play with wood racquets?

Its the players not the racquet, racquets help but if you have a loose fast swing with moderate grips and early preparation time... thats what the K90 was meant for. You swing speed, length, preparation time has nothing to do with NRTP ratings.

FOB............

 

[alan-n]

FOB............

Indeed you are, please come back and post when you are able to communicate with the environment you are at.

 

[J011yroger]

tired, he is

Best post of the thread.

J

 

[Brad Smith]

Hmmm, so one hand you say TM rates it 4.5 because they are paid by Wilson, but now you say they don't have anything invested in the frame.

I admire your persistence in continuing to misrepresent and misinterpret my posts. I am of course giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming that you know exactly what I mean when I talk about people being invested in the frame and are simply ignoring it for the sake of continuing this meaningless argument. If on the other hand you are having trouble comprehending the concept let me know and I'll try to put it in language you can understand.

In honor of Ana Ivonovich. Yoda will be back. I gave him the night off.

I'm sure she would be more honored if you managed to spell her name correctly...


BTW I'm done with this inane back and forth. Hope everyone enjoys the final tomorrow.

 

[[K]aotic]

Best post of the thread.

J

y thank u jolly

 

[drakulie]

I admire your persistence in continuing to misrepresent and misinterpret my posts.

Thought you might find this interesting since you seem to glorify TW and their reviewers as the end all be all of racquet selection. They seem to have a lot of discrepeancies and inconsistencies.

Here are Chris' comments about the ncode 90. 3 years ago.

Chris - "Just not my cup of tea. I think a more classic striker of the ball would find a better match-up with this one."

Here is his profile from 3 years ago:

5.0 baseline player currently using a Yonex RDX 500 Mid. Chris uses a full-western forehand grip, has a fast swing style and hits a one-handed backhand.

Here are Chris' comments about the K90 this year.

Chris - "By far my favorite Tour 90 thus far. This version offered much more maneuverability, and I also found it much more spin friendly. I would definitely be spending a lot of extra court time with this one if I was in the market for a midsize player's racquet."

Here is his profile from this year. Notice how his profile has changed:

5.0 baseline player now using the Babolat Pure Drive Roddick. Chris uses a full-western forehand grip, has a fast swing style and hits a two-handed backhand.


Here he is (one of your glorifed reviewers from TW, with extensive demoing experience, and a 5.0 player), advocating, that in the end, you have to be comfortable with what YOU are playing with.

I can only speak for myself here, but I just did not find the groove with the nSix-One Tour 90. Even when playing well with the racquet, it just didn’t feel right and I found myself thinking about the racquet too much, and not thinking about the point. I had similar issues with the ProStaff Tour 90. I found both racquets difficult to maneuver which had me perplexed as I have used heavy racquets for a long time. I liked both racquets on serve and at net, finding good stability and consistency. Overall, I thought the Tour 90 was the more comfortable of the two, with a more solid feel from most areas of the court.
In the end you have to feel comfortable with the racquet you are using and I just couldn’t get there with either the Tour 90 or the nSix-One Tour 90.

Chris, TW.

Lastly, by your logic a racquet would make a difference in enabling the user to play at a higher level/play better given the "correct" frame for their abilities. Yet for some reason, Chris (a TW reviewer) who was 5.0 player 3 years ago when playing with a Yonex RDX 500 Mid did not improve when he went to the Babolat Pure Drive Roddick. He is still a 5.0. Hmmmmm :roll:

 

[Attila the tennis Bum]

Drakulie,

Is that the best you got? Just because Chris did not like the the Ncode 90 three years ago how exactly does that means that the Kfactor is now meant for 3.5 players????

So lets just weight this evidence:

Evidence that the kfactor is reccomended for advanced players:

Tennis magazine, Wilson racquets description, Tennis Warhouse reccomendation, Every website and periodical


"evidence" that the Kfactor 90 is reccomended for 3.5 players.


Three years ago Chris said he did not like the the Ncode 90.



Hmmmmm.....you guys decide for yourselves.

 

[Attila the tennis Bum]

I'm I the only one who read the little thing that said "suggested for 5.0+ level players" in tennis magazine next to the picture of the k90?

I read 4.5 players

 

[Attila the tennis Bum]

"The Wilson K Six One Tour is a performance oriented racquet designed for the serious tennis player with long, fast swings. This racquet offers unmatched precision and control in a 90 sq. in headsize frame. At 12.5 ounces strung, the Six.One Tour is a heavy racquet that is perfect for advanced tennis players looking for a consistent racquet that plays well from all parts of the court." ********* sports

 

[drakulie]

Evidence that the kfactor is reccomended for advanced players:

Chris from TW, who is one of their reviewers stated:

"In the end you have to feel comfortable with the racquet you are using"

YOU LOSE!

 

[Attila the tennis Bum]

Chris from TW, who is one of their reviewers stated:

"In the end you have to feel comfortable with the racquet you are using"

YOU LOSE!

Yeah I guess that proves that the K90 is reccomended for 3.5 players?

again...no one ever said that a 3.5 couldn't use the racquet, but rather that it was not reccomended as a general rule.

So far you have shown No one who reccomends this racquet for a 3.5 player. Chris who is a 5.0 simply said that the K90 was not for him. You have taken a huge logical leap to say that somehow Chris reccomends this racquet for 3.5 players.

Everyone agrees that you should play with whatever you like. That was never a point in contention. Rather as a general rule the K90 has simply been reccomended for more advanced players.

 

[drakulie]

Yeah I guess that proves that the K90 is reccomended for 3.5 players?

He is a 5.0 reviewer from one of YOUR sources. DEAL WITH IT.

 

[Attila the tennis Bum]

I just heard mac say:

"Nadal has one of the lightest racquets on the tour that helps him generate that racquet speed to create that spin"

So following that ine of logic how is a 3.5 player going to be ableto handle the K90 which isone of the heaviest racquets on the tour? Is it possible...ye...is it likely...NO WAY!

 

[drakulie]

and how is a 3.5 going to be able to do what nadal does with that racquet?

By the way, fed has 27 winners off the ground compared to nadal's 18. Even if he isn;t able to create the same amount of spin.

 

[Attila the tennis Bum]

and how is a 3.5 going to be able to do what nadal does with that racquet?

.

You miss the point. A heavier racquet is harder to handle....especially for a 3.5 player. Especially one of the heaviest if not the heaviest racquet on the market like the K90.

 

[Attila the tennis Bum]

Yeah I guess that proves that the K90 is reccomended for 3.5 players?

again...no one ever said that a 3.5 couldn't use the racquet, but rather that it was not reccomended as a general rule.

So far you have shown No one who reccomends this racquet for a 3.5 player. Chris who is a 5.0 simply said that the K90 was not for him. You have taken a huge logical leap to say that somehow Chris reccomends this racquet for 3.5 players.

Everyone agrees that you should play with whatever you like. That was never a point in contention. Rather as a general rule the K90 has simply been reccomended for more advanced players.

ahhhhh....the sweet sound of silence. Finally?

 

[drakulie]

You miss the point. A heavier racquet is harder to handle....especially for a 3.5 player. Especially one of the heaviest if not the heaviest racquet on the market like the K90.

No, you miss the point. A heavier racquet will allow one to hit more winners.

 

[drakulie]

Let's sum up your argument:

1. Your first two sources are not in agreement who the racquet is for.

2. Your third source (Wilson), clearly states the racquet is for all players.

3. One of the reviewers of your first source (TW) states it's up to the individual.

4. Your 4th source (Mcenroe), states Fed is the greatest of all time (he uses a K90).

5. You don't follow the guidelines of your first 2 sources. You recommended an APD to a 3.5 player, which your first two sources recommend for 4.0+ players.


You lose!

 

[ht4444____]

You lose!

as fed in FO final....

 

[Attila the tennis Bum]

Drakulie,

I really do not mean this as an insult. I really would like to know. How old are you?

 

[Attila the tennis Bum]

Let's sum up your argument:

1. Your first two sources are not in agreement who the racquet is for.

2. Your third source (Wilson), clearly states the racquet is for all players.

3. One of the reviewers of your first source (TW) states it's up to the individual.

4. Your 4th source (Mcenroe), states Fed is the greatest of all time (he uses a K90).

5. You don't follow the guidelines of your first 2 sources. You recommended an APD to a 3.5 player, which your first two sources recommend for 4.0+ players.


You lose!

First off you have ZERO sources that say the K90 is reccomended for a 3.5 player. Absolutely ZERO.

1- my first two sources say the racquet is for 4.5 or and the second say its for 5.0. Therefore They both agree its not for a 3.5 player.

2-Wilson clearly say its for advanced players

3. Chris from TW says he is a 5.0 player and he did not like the racquet. he says however that every player should make his own choice. No where does he say that he reccomends this racquet for a 3.5 player.

4. Mcenroe never said Fed is the greatest of all time. he said if Fed wins the French he would be the greatest of all time. In any event , again no one has reccomended this racquet for a 3.5 player.

5. The subject of this post is not an APD it is whether a K90 is reccomended in general for a 3.5 player. No one has made such a reccomendation anywhere.

 

[drakulie]

First off you have ZERO sources that say the K90 is reccomended for a 3.5 player. Absolutely ZERO.

I alread gave you 5 sources. Sorry, I didn't realize you can't count. Here it is again:

1. Federer,
2. Chris (who is one of YOUR sources),
3. Wilson (another one of YOUR sources),
4. Eric, Vancouver, Canada, 04/07
5. Ivan, Brownsville, Texas

1- my first two sources say the racquet is for 4.5 or and the second say its for 5.0. Therefore They both agree its not for a 3.5 player.

Please show me where they say it is NOT for 3.5 players.

2-Wilson clearly say its for advanced players

Wrong. Wilson (one of yoru sources) clearly states it's for all players.

3. Chris from TW says he is a 5.0 player and he did not like the racquet. he says however that every player should make his own choice. No where does he say that he reccomends this racquet for a 3.5 player.

Crhis (one of your sources) clearly states it's up to the player. This includes all NTRP levels. Yes, even 3.5's.

4. Mcenroe never said Fed is the greatest of all time. he said if Fed wins the French he would be the greatest of all time.

yes he has. You lose again.

In any event , again no one has reccomended this racquet for a 3.5 player.

Uhmm, yes they have whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

5. The subject of this post is not an APD it is whether a K90 is reccomended in general for a 3.5 player. No one has made such a reccomendation anywhere.

You are the one that brought the APD into the argument, and recommeded it to a 3.5 player. I will again remind you, a racquet that YOUR souces clearly states is for a 4.0+ player. Stop being a hypocrite.

Once again, Let's sum up your argument:

1. Your first two sources are not in agreement who the racquet is for.

2. Your third source (Wilson), clearly states the racquet is for all players.

3. One of the reviewers of your first source (TW) states it's up to the individual.

4. Your 4th source (Mcenroe), states Fed is the greatest of all time (he uses a K90).

5. You don't follow the guidelines of your first 2 sources. You recommended an APD to a 3.5 player, which your first two sources recommend for 4.0+ players.


You lose for the second time today.

 

[NoBadMojo]

Respectfully to all:

1. The head of the K90 is modestly smaller than a 98si frame.
2. The weight of a K90 is modestly greater than a Babolat PD or many other so called 'tweeners'.
3. The sweetspot of a K90 is modestly smaller than that of many MP's.

All true!

BUT, the control, feel, and all court utility of the K90 is superb. That's why so many people like it.

Best,

CC

Hi Craig..i'm really surprised you would post stuff like this.

1. it's about the sweetspot size and not the headsize. The diff between a 90 and 98 can be huge, and you really cant tell anything by holding up one frame to another..it can be the diff between reliably hitting the sweetspot and reliably missing the sweetspot. they are in fact, two diff classes of racquets, which makes them dissimilar by their very nature

2. i think most would say the difference in swingweight between most tweeners and the k90 is huge not modestly greater. the k90 is a very demanding frame to swing fast..i dont think that is disputable. you yourself seemed to have removed swingweight from your k90's and Doug told me you're a pretty good player, so evidently the k90 was too much weight for you in stock form too.

3. really suprising you would make a comment like this since you've hit the dnx10Mid and admitted the sweetspot of this 93 sized frame is significantly larger than that of the k90, and there is only 3 sq in difference

Fed could surely have benefitted from a more forgiving racquet today with his 60 UE's compared to Nads' 28 and Nadal has a much more abrupt swingpath <usually>...not to mention all the misshits which allowed Nadal to hit forcing shots and control points. good thing it wasnt windy out there..he may have had 75 UE's. tons of high bounding balls directed to the Fed onehander..a total breakdown

 

[bluegrasser]

You miss the point. A heavier racquet is harder to handle....especially for a 3.5 player. Especially one of the heaviest if not the heaviest racquet on the market like the K90.

My feeling is how you hit the ball, if you hit old school with a little top and hit more through the ball, then a heavier frame is manageable IMO, but if you're Nadal style then I think you need to go lighter.

 

[AlpineCadet]

...communicate with the environment you are at.

ROFL. I bet you were drunk when you wrote that!

 

[Atkins]

My two cents, and I'm not trying to be smart, just my opinion and I hope it helps.

okay ill start from where i am at right now, im prolly a 3.0-3.5 player im guessing purely guessed, and I am currently using a k90.

No problem here, It doesn't really matter what frame you use, the most important is that the frame you use makes you fell confortable. With time you´ll be able to handle it. I believe there's no such thing as a frame being suitable onle for a certain type of players. I started playing with a wood frame (for a year) and then moved to a PS 85, and I certainly wasn't a 6+ player.

I used to use a PDC, but switched to a k90 because i absolutely cannot hit 1h backhands with a beam width passed 23. Anyways recently I just have a slightest of feeling that the k90 might not the thing for me. I have questioned myself on this for quite a bit. 12 ounces+ with overgrip, strings, etc, and you really start to this feel this number when the days get sunny and hot and you've been playing sets. So what happens when conditions are like this?
the answer to this is, if you are not fit enough you'll lose. But this is something you can work on. The feel a certain frame gives you is something you can't.

1. Unforced errors pile.
Include:

1. Net hitting
2. Overhitting
3. Double-Faulting

Probably alot of this happens due to the fact that i cant continue to generate a constant racket head speed up to a certain point. Now here comes the question..

1. is it just me and I just need to keep working with it?
You have to keep working

2. Is it time to make a switch back to something lighter possibly less demanding
Each time you make a change you include more variables. My guess (as I haven't seen you play) is that your problems are more fit and probably technique related and this can only be solved with practice. There's not a single frame out there that will help you with this. Weight balance, etc is something you shouldn't worry at this point. Practice your technique with whatever frame make you feel great.

If. So.

3. What racquets would you recommend and why?
I usually don't recommend racquets. My advice is to play with what you have unless it is something you don't like for any reason. Babolat, wilson, yonex, etc they all have great frames, the person wielding it is what makes the difference. And at pro level there are some other factors (balance, weight, etc) but that's way down the road.

ive been struggling with this for awhile. i have full confidence in the racquet, just sometimes im not really sure about it. it is possibly i should just swing around other racquets just so i can realize the quality and greatness of the k90
No, the K-90 it is an amazing racquet (though I still can't use it for some reason, I'm stuck with the PS 85), unless you feel otherwise. Don't change if you have full confidence in it, work on the other side of the game and forget about the racquet. Everything will come with practice. There's a myth out there about tweener racquets and wich is better than the other. Too many people is thinking about the racquet and not the game.

 

[lilxjohnyy]

im a 4.0 and use an k95... juss saying

 

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Yea a larger head size could of helped fed today. But still he's going to have a tough time to beat rafa at the french, regardless. He still played tough.. Now when it comes to the other 3 grand slams would a larger frame help fed win more than what he already has? Hehe. And how many grand slams would he might of not of won if he was not using his 90. Will fed ever switch, i think everyone knows the answer. A good argument is the rest of the world is not as good as fed or a sampras, or a courier, etc etc, and shouldnt be playing with a 90 let alone a 85in. I think the thing is people do recognize these small head racquets have so many grand slams it's tough not to want to be able to play with them, even if you cant or not very well..

 

[AlpineCadet]

Yea a larger head size could of helped fed today. But still he's going to have a tough time to beat rafa at the french, regardless. He still played tough.. Now when it comes to the other 3 grand slams would a larger frame help fed win more than what he already has? Hehe. And how many grand slams would he might of not of won if he was not using his 90. Will fed ever switch, i think everyone knows the answer. A good argument is the rest of the world is not as good as fed or a sampras, or a courier, etc etc, and shouldnt be playing with a 90 let alone a 85in. I think the thing is people do recognize these small head racquets have so many grand slams it's tough not to want to be able to play with them, even if you cant or not very well..

What are you talking about??

 

[drakulie]

tons of high bounding balls directed to the Fed onehander..a total breakdown

Interestingly enough, Fed had more misses (unforced errors, forced errors, whatever) on his "one-handed" forehand than on his "one-handed" backhand>> 52 -46. And this with WAY more shots directed to his BH. So, he had a way higher percentage of missed FH's than BH's.

Additionally, most of his break chances were provided by way of his backhand, and were lost by way of his forehand. He had 17 break opportunities, and broke once. This leaves 16. Of those 16, 3 were erased by way of an ace, and 2 clean backhand winners by Nadal. Of those 13, 7 were erased by missed forehands, and 6 by missed backhands.

We could clearly conclude that his forehand was the shot that let him down>>> not his backhand.

Of course, this is not subjective rhetoric.

 

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

What are you talking about??

I must of hit a nerve somewhere there.

 

[AlpineCadet]

No seriously, what are you talking about? I actually mean this for both of your posts.

 

[AlpineCadet]

I must of hit a nerve somewhere there.

^And FYI, you should replace "of" with "have."

 

[Attila the tennis Bum]

"Theres a sucker born every minute" Pt Barnum

This all just goes to prove what a great marketing job Wilson has done.

With Wilsons "carbon black" ( Did we really need Wilson to tell us carbon was black? Have you ever seen pink carbon?), and egg yoke crap down to its nano foam they have tricked people into believing that if they buy the most demanding racquet on the market they will all be able to hit the ball like Roger Federer.

Every time I see a 3.5 player on the court with a k90 I just laugh.

Wilson has now done the impossible. They have tricked everyone into thinking that they can all hit the ball like Roger Federer if they use a racquet with the smallest sweet spot, the smallest head , and the heaviest weight. It really is unbelievable what the power of an endorsement and good marketing can do. Congratulations Wilson and President Bush.....you have both proved how stupid the public actually is.

 

[AlpineCadet]

Have you ever seen pink carbon?

 

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

^And FYI, you should replace "of" with "have."

Do you play with a k90>? What level? Maybe you should replace it FYI if you do,, J/k..

All im saying is fed has done awesome with the k90. To say he should be using a different racquet is laughable. This is the only time of year people will say he should of used something different or his racquet is why he lost.

 

[AlpineCadet]

I play with a wooden racket that's about 60 square inches. I'm about a 0.5 according to the NTRP, but am training real hard to get better so that I can keep up with the conversations that go on around here on these TW threads.

 

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

I play with a wooden racket that's about 60 square inches. I'm about a 0.5 according to the NTRP, but am training real hard to get better so that I can keep up with the conversations that go on around here on these TW threads.

Now i'm confused

 

[AlpineCadet]

Thanks for the confirmation; as I believe you've always been confused.

 

[Attila the tennis Bum]

well...I agree...I think Federer would be much better off playing with a pink carbon racquet to go along with his pretty cosemtic line.

Funny thing is that if Wilson marketed a pink tennis racquets and had Federer endorse it then everyone one would be playing with it.

welcome to the new line [K]arbon Pink!

 

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

"Theres a sucker born every minute" Pt Barnum[/I

Wilson has now done the impossible. They have tricked everyone into thinking that they can all hit the ball like Roger Federer if they use a racquet with the smallest sweet spot, the smallest head , and the heaviest weight. It really is unbelievable what the power of an endorsement and good marketing can do. Congratulations Wilson and President Bush.....you have both proved how stupid the public actually is.

So go ahead and buy a babolat and you will hit the ball like nadal? Will you have to use extreme spin and only be able to win and play on clay to use a babolat>? Do you play with a babolat>?

 

[Attila the tennis Bum]

So go ahead and buy a babolat and you will hit the ball like nadal? Will you have to use extreme spin and only be able to win and play on clay to use a babolat>? Do you play with a babolat>?

OMG of course not. But its lighter and has a far larger sweet spot . Its far more forgiving for a 3.5 player. Besides wasn't it you who said that Nadal actually plays with a more beefed up version? On the other hand the k90 is exactly the same as Feds.

well...I agree...I think Federer would be much better off playing with a pink carbon racquet to go along with his pretty cosemtic line.

Funny thing is that if Wilson marketed a pink tennis racquets and had Federer endorse it then everyone one would be playing with it.

welcome to the new line [K]arbon Pink!