Keeping The Faith?

[Cindysphinx]

You are convolving multiple messages here Cindy.

Yes, I am. I'm trying to keep up with multiple posts and theories, so there is some ambiguity.

In my case, you are taking my advice too literally. You decide what you need to work on. Then stick with it. It doesn't matter what it is, as long as you continue to work on it in practice and during matches. If you abandon it in matches because it isn't working, you are aren't putting in the hard miles and you may likely never get it to the point where you can use it to your advantage.

Boy, I dunno, JRod.

I figured there was a progression. You learn the new skill in clinic/lesson. Then you integrate the new skill in practice matches. Only when you are doing it well in practice matches do you dare unveil it in a league match. And if you unveil it in a league match and it doesn't work (either because it is not the right tool against these opponents or because you get tight), then you stop and use the tool that will get the job done.

Now, I don't think that progression is the right one for all skills. If you decide you are switching to a 1HBH, then you have to start hitting all of your backhands as 1HBH. Same for grip issues (using Continental for serve, switching from EF to SW for FH). The reason you don't switch back and forth is that once you get the change made, you will never go back to the old way.

S&V is different. You can S&V one day and then stay back the next, and what you do should depend on how it is all going during that match.

You need to make a hard choice on which is more important: your match record or your tennis skills?

Is it really that black and white? Why can't I use S&V as Plan B rather than Plan A when I am in a league match?

 

[jrod]

....
Is it really that black and white? Why can't I use S&V as Plan B rather than Plan A when I am in a league match?

No, it's not really black and white and there is definitely a progression. But at 3.5 you already have some dependable skills and some less dependable ones. You mentioned the low hanging fruit...so you start with the lowest piece and work it in. Then move onto the next lowest....etc.

The observation I make is very simple. We all want to improve, yet we don't allocate enough quality practice time to really improve that much. Since my court time is limited, all time spent playing tennis is an opportunity to learn and progress.

I gave up caring about my match record a long, long time ago. It turned out no one else cared about it nearly as much as I did and it was holding me back. The result of this decision is that all 10-12 hours I spend on the court in a week is quality practice time. My NTRP level has come up nearly 3 levels in approximately 8 years. I've passed most of my peers in the process and my match results have reflected this in the natural progression.

 

[North]

OK, this reaction is interesting. I'm hearing that I must S&V, that I must use it as my default, that I must use it in real matches immediately, and that if it doesn't work during the real match, I must keep doing it anyway.

This doesn't make sense to me. Why is S&V any different from any other strategy? If I decide to hit moonballs and my opponents are killing my moonballs, I would stop hitting moonballs. I would not stubbornly continue to hit them, especially once my partner said, "Dang, girl. Maybe you'd better hit drives instead."

That's what I meant by choosing priorities.

Although you might need to give your moonballs a break here and there (to use your example), if you kept hitting the moonballs during matches your moonballs would eventually get better - assuming you had been taught to hit them properly, devoted adequate practice to them, and were hitting them at the appropriate times (ie; good shot selection). You would just need to find the correct balance of technique and touch during the increased tension of a live match (over practice). But it would take some time and you would lose points on your moonballs until they got better.

Same thing is true with S&V, only it would take a lot longer for S&V to get better and you would lose a lot more and lose more spectacularly (many people find it embarassing or somehow humiliating to get passed repeatedly).
You will eventually get better, though your league team would probably not be happy with you if they are relying on you just to win. But, it's a choice.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Regarding S&V . . .

Doesn't North's post assume that well-executed S&V will win if the player is practiced/trained/in shape etc.?

Doesn't this seem to fly in the face of the fact that even pros do not S&V on every point, and that pros (with the notable exception of Roddick) will stop S&V if they are losing points with it?

 

[J_R_B]

Doesn't this seem to fly in the face of the fact that even pros do not S&V on every point, and that pros (with the notable exception of Roddick) will stop S&V if they are losing points with it?

That's far less true in doubles. Even in today's game, most (not all...) pros continue to S&V in doubles no matter what because it is the optimal strategy for that game. There is less or no inherent advantage to S&V in singles (unless, of course, you are really good at it).

In your case, I would recommend that you try to work S&V in when you can in the normal flow of your match, maybe a point or two a game (especially if you get up 30-0 or 40-0 - I like to be more aggressive with a lead in the game), even if it's not your primary strategy. As you get better at it, increase the frequency that you use it.

 

[sureshs]

OK, this reaction is interesting. I'm hearing that I must S&V, that I must use it as my default, that I must use it in real matches immediately, and that if it doesn't work during the real match, I must keep doing it anyway.

This doesn't make sense to me. Why is S&V any different from any other strategy? If I decide to hit moonballs and my opponents are killing my moonballs, I would stop hitting moonballs. I would not stubbornly continue to hit them, especially once my partner said, "Dang, girl. Maybe you'd better hit drives instead."

Sam Querrey was staying back on his serve in the Hopman Cup, much to the disappointment of the commentator. So yes if a 6'6" pro stays back, there must be good reasons.

 

[skiracer55]

Let's try this again...

OK, this reaction is interesting. I'm hearing that I must S&V, that I must use it as my default, that I must use it in real matches immediately, and that if it doesn't work during the real match, I must keep doing it anyway.

This doesn't make sense to me. Why is S&V any different from any other strategy? If I decide to hit moonballs and my opponents are killing my moonballs, I would stop hitting moonballs. I would not stubbornly continue to hit them, especially once my partner said, "Dang, girl. Maybe you'd better hit drives instead."

Well, with S&V, it is possible to get off to a bad start, and it is possible that your opponents can be better at beating you at that strategy than you are in executing it. So if you are in a match and you S&V four times and are broken at love, doesn't this mean that (1) you should put the S&V back on the shelf for match play until you get better, and (2) and you had better not S&V anymore against those opponents and try something else?

You know, I had a recent match in which my female partner was S&V on her serves. She was broken every time. Her S&V is not horrible by any means. For whatever reason, she was either missing the approach volley or was hitting something so weak that our opponents could exploit it. Yeah, she had some spectacular winners, but the ratio of winners to errors was not working in our favor during any of our service or return games.

We lost the first set, and our opponents had four games in the second. My partner was serving. She S&V's and soon it was love-30. I walked back and said something like, "OK, we're six points away from losing the match. We have to find a way to keep the ball in play. We have better groundstrokes than these players, and if we can make them play we might climb back into this match. Let's just keep it in play."

My partner said, "No, I think we need to play aggressively. If we just hit the ball back, they are going to punish us." So she came in, was broken, and we lost the match.

Really, I think this was a mistake. We had already tried an aggressive strategy for a set and a half and it wasn't working. Why continue to have faith in it that it will suddenly start to work?

...go back and look at what I said in Post #5, and let me expand on some things I said there:

I don't think we're telling you, collectively, you have to S&V. I think the overall message is, you have to figure out what your priorities are...winning in the short term by whatever means, or working on what *might* be a better long term path. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's obvious that you are very, very, very, very focused on what your results (not your play) were in the last match and what you think they are going to be in the next match.

IMHO, if you focus on the results rather than the process, it's always a crap shoot...some days you'll eat the bear, other days, the bear will eat you, but there won't be any overall reason why, one way or the other. I know, it's easy to say that "Well, S&V worked for a game and I held my serve, and then it didn't, and I lost my serve", but those aren't constants, just things that happened.

Which leads me to a related topic, which is that there is no way to guarantee results on a tennis court, or in life, either. You take your best shot and let the chips fall where they do. Tennis is not a two plus two equals four event. You can have the best game in the world, but if you have an off day, or your opponent has an on day, you can lose. There is no such thing as "We should never lose to that team", or "That team has us by the short hairs"...whatever happens is what happens, and there are no woulda/shoulda/couldas involved.

Having said that, it doesn't mean you don't try to win or don't believe you can. Nor can you just wing it and believe your going to win even when the facts dictate otherwise. You have to prepare yourself as best as possible, believe in yourself, show up and leave it all on the court...and then the results will be whatever they're meant to be.

Related to all this, you are, reasonably so, constrained in terms of practice time and other factors. Because of your situation, even more so than what I said above, you have to decide what your goals are and what's the right path to get to those goals...and be realistic about what you can reasonably achieve and how long it is likely to take.

To give you a local viewpoint, I decided I wanted to be the best ski racer and tennis player I could be, and so for eleven years, my whole life revolved around both sports. I lived in ski towns, worked construction or restaurants in the summer, taught skiing and worked in restaurants in the winter, lived in a trailer with a roommate or two, and other than that, I played tennis and skied all the time. It wasn't a luxury, it was a trade-off. I had no wife, no kids, no money, no real career, no real future beyond my next meal and the next race or tennis match. That was my choice, and it was worth it...to me...because it set me on a path to try to become the best ski racer and tennis player I could be.

And I'm still on that path, even though I now have a real job and a few other accoutrements of a normal life, it's one of the big journeys that is important to my life, and I've never regretted for a moment committing to it. What are my results? I've won a few tournaments and a few ski races, lost a bunch more, but it's more important to me to continue to play tennis, ski, and compete and go forward than to look back excessively.

That's my story, your mileage is obviously going to vary. Because you're in a more constrained situation than I was, you necessarily have to have different goals and different expectations. Nobody can tell you what path you should take, only you can figure that one out.

Having said all that good stuff, regardless of what you choose, I'll give you some advice my last coach hit me with one day when I was frustrated about my recent tournament losses:

(1) Do everything you can to make yourself the best player you can be.

(2) Believe in yourself, and leave it all on the court, every time.

(3) Try to have fun, somewhere, somehow, every time you play tennis, regardless of the score...

 

[jrod]

.... I think the overall message is, you have to figure out what your priorities are...winning in the short term by whatever means, or working on what *might* be a better long term path. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's obvious that you are very, very, very, very focused on what your results (not your play) were in the last match and what you think they are going to be in the next match.

IMHO, if you focus on the results rather than the process, it's always a crap shoot...some days you'll eat the bear, other days, the bear will eat you, but there won't be any overall reason why, one way or the other.

...

Precisely.

 

[athiker]

Bottom line: The mission is to learn to hit my best serve every time and come in behind it no matter how well the return is spanked, knowing that my peers/opponents are very lobby so I have to be ready to reverse gears and so cannot go barreling into the net at full speed.

It's a tough mission.

There are better players than me here, but as someone who is also a 3.5 and recently incorporated a lot more S&V into their game and is liking the results I'll throw in another comment.

On serve I don't come in on every serve, not even every first serve. Now if I'm really going for a hard first flat serve and get it in so am expecting a fairly weak return I'll follow it in. To be honest I don't even try for that serve that often. I like to get my first serves in so on a first serve I will often go for either a well placed 85% flat serve or a pretty firmly hit slice or kick serve to one edge or the other.

The difference between my 1st and second slice/kick serve is a bit of pace, but mostly how tight I try to go for placement. If my placement is good out wide or up the "T" then I'm coming in whether its my 1st or 2nd serve. If I've grooved it up the middle then I will wait till I get a shot where the opponent is reaching or if I've hit a low short shot he will have to hit up on before I move in. The point may be over before I get to do this, but that is my strategy.

I would definitely not keep banging my head against an immovable wall during a match. Just like you changed strategies the other night to S&V, I would change away if the other team was clearly eating me up. Your toolbox analogy is a good one I think. In any match you try various things early and reuse the tools that seem to be working. Though in doubles I'm pretty much always looking to come in, it just may not be on the serve every time. Actually, I'm looking for opportunities to come in playing singles as well, its just that in doubles I am probably more aggressive about it b/c I have a partner covering half the court.

You also try to pick the right tool for the right situation in the match. I don't think it has to be all or nothing. The only thing that needs to be all or nothing is the attitude you have towards using any tool when you use it. Hopefully, having some success w/ S&V now will give you that confidence to put the S&V tool up there on equal footing w/ the other tools you have.

I've also noticed, or rather it was pointed out to me in a clinic, that its important to notice how I get beat when I S&V. I was getting beat by lobs one night and I had to concentrate on two things. When I come in I have to split step as my opponent hits his ball so that I am balanced to react to his shot. I was rushing in all out of control making it hard to change direction. Second, I had to start stopping a little sooner and not go in so close and leave so much court open behind me. If an opponent isn't much of an effective lobber, then I can go in closer and narrow his hitting angle more. I hope all that came off right...not preaching to more experienced players, just recounting what has helped me. Good luck.

 

[Ripper014]

I am basically an all-court player... I am happy playing from the baseline or aggressively attacking the net, in singles. In doubles I am going to be at the net as soon as possible and I will be the last person giving up the net.

Once you get to the net you open up all kinds of possibilities... you no longer need pure power to win a point... you can use angles to win outright points.

When playing doubles... there is only 2 times when starting a point I am not hitting a volley... my return of serve and when serving. Other than that... I will either be hitting a volley or an overhead.

It would be helpful to see some video of CindySphinx playing so we could get a sense of her skill level and her movement around the court and those of her partner and opponents. But since that is not the case... we can only assume.

From what has been said... I would say that the volleys being made are just being blocked back into the court where the opponent gets another big swing at the ball, nothing penetrating or with angle that has the opponent off balance and moving.

If this is the case... you are in trouble, giving the opponent the time to take full swings at a sitter. If you are going to serve and volley you need the skills to be able to at a minimum play the ball deep in the court putting the opponents in a defensive position.

I also feel that the polsters have only been seeing this from one viewpoint... the people defending the serve and volley are constantly under pressure to come up with quality shots... otherwise the team at the net should be able to put away winners.

It is not easy to make quality return serves over the course of a match... unless the server is only serving in one spot at one speed and spin.

If you want to improve your volley game... improve your serve, don't serve with a predictable pattern... place difficult volleys deep in the court... and make quality shots off high volleys... you do not need to hit a winner off the first volley. And the point is not over until it hits the net or bounces twice.

Oh and I forgot develope a dependable overhead... that ends the point.

 

[larry10s]

...go back and look at what I said in Post #5, and let me expand on some things I said there:

I don't think we're telling you, collectively, you have to S&V. I think the overall message is, you have to figure out what your priorities are...winning in the short term by whatever means, or working on what *might* be a better long term path. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's obvious that you are very, very, very, very focused on what your results (not your play) were in the last match and what you think they are going to be in the next match.

IMHO, if you focus on the results rather than the process, it's always a crap shoot...some days you'll eat the bear, other days, the bear will eat you, but there won't be any overall reason why, one way or the other. I know, it's easy to say that "Well, S&V worked for a game and I held my serve, and then it didn't, and I lost my serve", but those aren't constants, just things that happened.

Which leads me to a related topic, which is that there is no way to guarantee results on a tennis court, or in life, either. You take your best shot and let the chips fall where they do. Tennis is not a two plus two equals four event. You can have the best game in the world, but if you have an off day, or your opponent has an on day, you can lose. There is no such thing as "We should never lose to that team", or "That team has us by the short hairs"...whatever happens is what happens, and there are no woulda/shoulda/couldas involved.

Having said that, it doesn't mean you don't try to win or don't believe you can. Nor can you just wing it and believe your going to win even when the facts dictate otherwise. You have to prepare yourself as best as possible, believe in yourself, show up and leave it all on the court...and then the results will be whatever they're meant to be.

Related to all this, you are, reasonably so, constrained in terms of practice time and other factors. Because of your situation, even more so than what I said above, you have to decide what your goals are and what's the right path to get to those goals...and be realistic about what you can reasonably achieve and how long it is likely to take.

To give you a local viewpoint, I decided I wanted to be the best ski racer and tennis player I could be, and so for eleven years, my whole life revolved around both sports. I lived in ski towns, worked construction or restaurants in the summer, taught skiing and worked in restaurants in the winter, lived in a trailer with a roommate or two, and other than that, I played tennis and skied all the time. It wasn't a luxury, it was a trade-off. I had no wife, no kids, no money, no real career, no real future beyond my next meal and the next race or tennis match. That was my choice, and it was worth it...to me...because it set me on a path to try to become the best ski racer and tennis player I could be.

And I'm still on that path, even though I now have a real job and a few other accoutrements of a normal life, it's one of the big journeys that is important to my life, and I've never regretted for a moment committing to it. What are my results? I've won a few tournaments and a few ski races, lost a bunch more, but it's more important to me to continue to play tennis, ski, and compete and go forward than to look back excessively.

That's my story, your mileage is obviously going to vary. Because you're in a more constrained situation than I was, you necessarily have to have different goals and different expectations. Nobody can tell you what path you should take, only you can figure that one out.

Having said all that good stuff, regardless of what you choose, I'll give you some advice my last coach hit me with one day when I was frustrated about my recent tournament losses:

(1) Do everything you can to make yourself the best player you can be.

(2) Believe in yourself, and leave it all on the court, every time.

(3) Try to have fun, somewhere, somehow, every time you play tennis, regardless of the score...

skiracer55 you always have good advice

 

[skiracer55]

Thanks much...

skiracer55 you always have good advice

...ya know what? So far, it's all been Internet Coaching, which ain't necessarily bad. However...I'm Totally into hands-on coaching. As a Masters alpine ski racer, I of course want to win, to do my best.

However...as a PSIA L3 Alpine instructor and a USSA alpine racing Coaches L1 Dude...and somebody who loves to coach others to achieve their best, and have fun doing it, it'd be my pleasure to hit some balls with y'all and tell you what I know or what I think I know...so wuddia think? Y'all want to make a pilgrimmage to Colorado and hit some balls in the Mile High City? I can make you better, and we'll all have fun doing it...

 

[strcmp]

I find volleying in doubles is not particularly useful at the lower levels of the game.

It seems to be very effective when my partner has a decent to good serve and the opposing team can't control the return that well because of the serve. Easy or at least doable putaway volleys and poaches will occur as a result.

However at the lower levels..
I played mixed dbls one time and teamed up w/ different older women (40-55 years old) that were 3.0-3.5. Playing the net was mostly pointless because their serves were really slow and easy to hit away from me or lob over me even when the returner was a 3.0-3.5 player hitting a slow return. Whatever volleying skills I had were not able to be used because they played "keep away" from me (the net guy).

Perhaps you should get your teaching pro to help you and your teammates amp up your serves. When your partners have good serves, volleying becomes key in doubles. At the higher levels volleying is the way to go in doubles. Volleying does however require quick reaction/anticipation which may not be readily found in older women as you've described your group to be. So I am uncertain whether it will work for you or not.

It's a good skill to have, but your time might be better used for improving other skills like serving/groundstrokes that would produce much more effective results in 3.5 womens doubles.

 

[J011yroger]

Cindy, I don't know if this helps you at all, but I practice playing dubs fairly often with girls on 9.0 and 10.0 mixed teams, and 5.0 women's teams.

And I am the mascot of my friend's 9.0 mixed team, so I go to the matches and cheer for them, and drink their beer and eat their pizza.

Our local 5.0 women's team came in 2nd in Nationals.

It is rare to see them S&V in dubs. They all volley great, some have incredible hands and can pull off the most amazing volleys off of insane shots. But for the most part they serve and stay back until they can find an opportunity to come in.

The guys S&V much more, especially the older, more seasoned 4.5-5.0 crew, but even some of them stay back.

I think it is because the higher level girls return so well, and it is rare to run into one with an overpowering serve. Where as a guy, it is fairly common to be able to serve better than your opponent returns.

I don't really see the need to be practicing S&V so much unless you are planning on surpassing the national 5.0 level in the near future.

Maybe just serving and taking a big step inside the court, so if you get a floater, you can close and knock it off, but you are not committed and don't have to worry about scraping returns off of your shoes?

J

 

[Solat]

And I am the mascot of my friend's 9.0 mixed team, so I go to the matches and cheer for them, and drink their beer and eat their pizza.


J

JOLLY = WIN

 

[Nellie]

Further to Jolly's comments above, even a lot of the top female pros are now staying back in doubles.

But on a more fundamental point, I think that you need to develop net skills, but that it is wrong to say you need to get to the net on every point. In my mind, doubles is more about learning how to get to the net and not handling the net once you get there. By this, I mean that if you go to the net when you are in strong position (hit a good serve/ return of serve), the point is easy - if you hit a weak shot and try to approach, you will get passed easily. I understand that the teaching pros try to get you to be more aggressive for a reason, but I think the importance of the approach is lost on most players. Too often, I see players that either go all of the time or never go. Further, I think that as you improve, you need to really work on your approaches and your split step so that you can handle the better returns.

So - I think that you should be getting to the net as much as possible, but cannot force it.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Bummer.

I was all set to Turn Over A New Leaf today. Was going to work hard to work on S&V in a lesson today and a practice match over the weekend and a day match on Monday.

And now none of that will happen because of our coming blizzard.

Bummer.

 

[LeeD]

Gotta chime in wid a third right now.
Playing with some 6.0 - 7.0 women in the old days, they hardly ever S/V regularly. As a surprise, yes. Often? NO.
Rosie would try, but only against sliced returns.
CeciMartinez would try, but only against weak returns.
Everyone else stayed back and used their 90 mph flat forehands for a setup shot to another 90 mph forehand, until they got a higher, shorter sitter where they'd take the netman apart.
You need a serve that solicits a slow moving return. Without that, forget S/V unless it's a one in 5 surprise move.

 

[5263]

Your bolded statement is true enough, but I figured everyone knew that already.

What I meant by "poachable ball" is a ball that you can (and should) punish with a poach.

Yes, you would think so wouldn't you.
I see lots of women (and men) at the 3.5 - 4.0, who think they should poach just cause they are there at net and think they MIGHT can get a stick on it. It is amazing how much their play improves when I can convince them to try being more sure they can do some damage before committing to a poach.

 

[5263]

Further to Jolly's comments above, even a lot of the top female pros are now staying back in doubles.

But on a more fundamental point, I think that you need to develop net skills, but that it is wrong to say you need to get to the net on every point. In my mind, doubles is more about learning how to get to the net and not handling the net once you get there. By this, I mean that if you go to the net when you are in strong position (hit a good serve/ return of serve), the point is easy - if you hit a weak shot and try to approach, you will get passed easily. I understand that the teaching pros try to get you to be more aggressive for a reason, but I think the importance of the approach is lost on most players. Too often, I see players that either go all of the time or never go. Further, I think that as you improve, you need to really work on your approaches and your split step so that you can handle the better returns.

So - I think that you should be getting to the net as much as possible, but cannot force it.

I think this is excellent advice Nellie.
I took to calling this the transition game to distinguish it from others parts of the game like baseline and net play. I try to get across how much better your net play will be if your transition game is top notch.

 

[5263]

Cindy, I don't know if this helps you at all, but I practice playing dubs fairly often with girls on 9.0 and 10.0 mixed teams, and 5.0 women's teams.

And I am the mascot of my friend's 9.0 mixed team, so I go to the matches and cheer for them, and drink their beer and eat their pizza.

Our local 5.0 women's team came in 2nd in Nationals.

It is rare to see them S&V in dubs. They all volley great, some have incredible hands and can pull off the most amazing volleys off of insane shots. But for the most part they serve and stay back until they can find an opportunity to come in.

The guys S&V much more, especially the older, more seasoned 4.5-5.0 crew, but even some of them stay back.

I think it is because the higher level girls return so well, and it is rare to run into one with an overpowering serve. Where as a guy, it is fairly common to be able to serve better than your opponent returns.

I don't really see the need to be practicing S&V so much unless you are planning on surpassing the national 5.0 level in the near future.

Maybe just serving and taking a big step inside the court, so if you get a floater, you can close and knock it off, but you are not committed and don't have to worry about scraping returns off of your shoes?

J

Yes, women's returns are better than serves at nearly all levels of the women's game.

 

[LuckyR]

Yes, you would think so wouldn't you.
I see lots of women (and men) at the 3.5 - 4.0, who think they should poach just cause they are there at net and think they MIGHT can get a stick on it. It is amazing how much their play improves when I can convince them to try being more sure they can do some damage before committing to a poach.

I see that too. But for every one I see that does what you describe, I see ten (or more) who let punishable balls whiz by them CC, untouched.

 

[LeeD]

Better to let a poachable ball whiz by than to stick your racket out and puff ball a high softy right at the center of the court, service line deep.
If you let it go, the backcourt person has a shot.
If you set them up with a high puffball, you lose.
"a man's gotta know his limitations"... listen to that, learn from that, embrace that....
Nothing worse in doubles than an athletic netman who poaches beyond his skill level.

 

[LuckyR]

Better to let a poachable ball whiz by than to stick your racket out and puff ball a high softy right at the center of the court, service line deep.
If you let it go, the backcourt person has a shot.
If you set them up with a high puffball, you lose.
"a man's gotta know his limitations"... listen to that, learn from that, embrace that....
Nothing worse in doubles than an athletic netman who poaches beyond his skill level.

An error is an error is an error. True, poaching an unpoachable ball is one and can cost the team a point. But that lost point is no more or less a problem than any other lost point. And in my experience, it is a relatively uncommon one when compared to lackadaisical net play.

 

[LeeD]

Not in my book.
If you forego a poach, your backcourter covers the shot.
When you overreach your poach, you not only miss or hit a pooper, but you're taking away your backcourters shot.
You DO have to hit shots within your reach, of course.

 

[Fedace]

I take clinics with a group of ladies. We've been together for maybe a year now with this pro that we all like very much. The clinics are a lot of fun, and everyone is very nice.

The four of us players are on the same teams, so now we get to partner and use what we learn in clinic. Sounds good, right?

I've kind of noticed something. The pro emphasizes correct doubles strategy and positioning and suchlike, and we spend a lot of time on net play and approach volleys and S&V and all of that hard stuff. And you know what?

None of that seems to do us much good in matches. Consider the facts:

I had a win yesterday partnered with one lady. Neither of us S&V's even once. Neither of us poached unless the ball was an easy sitter or came straight to us. We played plain Vanilla baseline tennis, as did our opponents.

I had a win recently with another of the ladies. She started the match with some S&V and was promptly schooled by her opponents who put the ball at her feet. We decided it would be better if she just stayed back.

If I ever tried to S&V in 7.0 mixed, my partner would pin my ears back. Nor would he appreciate it if I launched myself across the net to poach while he is rallying crosscourt with the other guy.

The long and short of it is that if we clinic players want to win our matches, we had better keep the fancy stuff on the shelf. This is particularly so since our serves aren't exactly material for the highlight reel, so why are we working so hard on S&V behind these weak serves?

I dunno. I was contemplating one of our drills today. A player served to the opponent and played out the point crosscourt. I would say that for every high-quality shot made, there were 10 misses/Crap Shots. Each of us has several bad habits, and I am not seeing a whole lot of change in those bad habits. The one who takes big backswings still takes big backswings. The one who doesn't split step still doesn't split step. And the one who hits crummy service returns still hits crummy service returns (that last one is me).

Which makes me question my faith in continuing to work on these Proper Doubles Strategies. If you can't execute it in a clinic and are afraid to try it in a match, what is the point again?

LOL,,,all those S&V fundamentals become more critical in Higher levels like 8.0 mixed and above and ladies 4.5 and above doubles. Levels below these, you are fine by staying back. but if your goal is to improve, then you should work on these skills. At first you will fail miserably but in about 3 month, you will be much better doubles player. but 1st 3 month, you will have to do it at the expense of your partner who will understand why you are doing it and maybe have the same goals.......