Kevlar Hybrid for open pattern rackets

[Hitman99]

My racket has a very open 14x15 string pattern, and a very large 133" hitting surface. I have two rackets, one of which has a full bed of 16g Solinco Tour Bite Soft, and the other has a hybrid setup with 16g RPM Blast crosses, STB Soft mains. Both rackets are strung at 55 lbs, which is the highest recommended for my frame. I like both setups, but have had chronic shoulder soreness for the past year or longer. I am interested in trying a Kevlar hybrid setup at a lower string tension.

Just as I was about to order some string, I noticed that TW is offering a Playtest using "Crossfire ZX" ---1.25 Kevlar mains combined with 1.22 Ashaway Monogut ZX Pro crosses. For comparison purposes, they are also offering a slightly different combo --- "Crossfire ZX Tour", which is 1.27 Ashaway Monogut co-poly mains combined with 1.27 Ashaway Monogut ZX crosses. Most of probably know that both of these proposed cross strings are made of Zyex, which has some fairly unique properties.

I do not know whether I will be accepted for the Playtest, especially since I offered to test both setups. It may also be that TW might consider my racket configuration to be too far out of the mainstream to be useful. However, even if I am not accepted for either setup, I have decided to buy my own strings, so that I can personally try both setups.

For the first setup using Kevlar mains, I am seeking some advice about string tension. Some advice I've seen says to go WAY low on the Kevlar, and perhaps as much as 15 lbs higher on the crosses. I am looking for comfort rather than power or spin, 'cause I already get plenty of both with the STB Soft strings. I also don't want to warp my racket. So, my thought was to stick with 55 lbs for the Zyex crosses, as it is pretty springy. Then (working backwards) I could go with 45 lbs for the mains. Make sense?

I am also concerned about the thinner gauge of the Zyex strings in the Kevlar setup. I don't normally break strings, but I did manage to break a full set of Babolat natty gut in less than an hour a few weeks ago. Ouch! If I do break the 1.22 Zyex string right away, I can always replace it with the 1.27.

Greatly appreciate advice and support. This should be fun!

 

[Hitman99]

Deafening silence. Guess everything to be said about Kevlar has already been said.

 

[dman72]

My racket has a very open 14x15 string pattern, and a very large 133" hitting surface. I have two rackets, one of which has a full bed of 16g Solinco Tour Bite Soft, and the other has a hybrid setup with 16g RPM Blast crosses, STB Soft mains. Both rackets are strung at 55 lbs, which is the highest recommended for my frame. I like both setups, but have had chronic shoulder soreness for the past year or longer. I am interested in trying a Kevlar hybrid setup at a lower string tension.

Just as I was about to order some string, I noticed that TW is offering a Playtest using "Crossfire ZX" ---1.25 Kevlar mains combined with 1.22 Ashaway Monogut ZX Pro crosses. For comparison purposes, they are also offering a slightly different combo --- "Crossfire ZX Tour", which is 1.27 Ashaway Monogut co-poly mains combined with 1.27 Ashaway Monogut ZX crosses. Most of probably know that both of these proposed cross strings are made of Zyex, which has some fairly unique properties.

I do not know whether I will be accepted for the Playtest, especially since I offered to test both setups. It may also be that TW might consider my racket configuration to be too far out of the mainstream to be useful. However, even if I am not accepted for either setup, I have decided to buy my own strings, so that I can personally try both setups.

For the first setup using Kevlar mains, I am seeking some advice about string tension. Some advice I've seen says to go WAY low on the Kevlar, and perhaps as much as 15 lbs higher on the crosses. I am looking for comfort rather than power or spin, 'cause I already get plenty of both with the STB Soft strings. I also don't want to warp my racket. So, my thought was to stick with 55 lbs for the Zyex crosses, as it is pretty springy. Then (working backwards) I could go with 45 lbs for the mains. Make sense?

I am also concerned about the thinner gauge of the Zyex strings in the Kevlar setup. I don't normally break strings, but I did manage to break a full set of Babolat natty gut in less than an hour a few weeks ago. Ouch! If I do break the 1.22 Zyex string right away, I can always replace it with the 1.27.

Greatly appreciate advice and support. This should be fun!

I use similar tensions on my Prince NXG and sharks...around 50lbs kevlar mains, 55lbs poly crosses.

The truth with kevlar is that it plays very similarly across most tensions..it has no elasticity, so you can't get a trampoline effect as hard as you may try. It just gets softer feeling and mushier and power actualy seems to go DOWN under 50Lbs. You see this when stringing on a drop weight..the weight just stops, not slowly, it just stops.

The problem with going lower on the mains with a string like Zyex in the cross, is you might start getting some trampolining, because while the kevlar is "giving" (think flexible racquet, not stretch string), the Zyex will catch and spring back. I use poly crosses, so the snap back/ bounce from the crosses is minimal.

 

[Shroud]

I use similar tensions on my Prince NXG and sharks...around 50lbs kevlar mains, 55lbs poly crosses.

The truth with kevlar is that it plays very similarly across most tensions..it has no elasticity, so you can't get a trampoline effect as hard as you may try. It just gets softer feeling and mushier and power actualy seems to go DOWN under 50Lbs. You see this when stringing on a drop weight..the weight just stops, not slowly, it just stops.

The problem with going lower on the mains with a string like Zyex in the cross, is you might start getting some trampolining, because while the kevlar is "giving" (think flexible racquet, not stretch string), the Zyex will catch and spring back. I use poly crosses, so the snap back/ bounce from the crosses is minimal.

dman is right about the kevlar and how it plays across most tensions. I could give you a kev/zyex combo strung in the 30s and you would probably say it felt more like 50lbs.

In my PS85 I have kev/zx at 32/27 and its not a trampoline at all. Some of that is the 85" frame and some is the kevlar.

NOw in your case, I think you are ok with what you propose. The challenge is that there is some initial tension loss and then it has really good tension maintenance. If you are stringing it your self, then prestrech the kevlar and zx and this loss will be less, so you can string lower. If someone else is doing it they probably wont prestretch so a higher tension on the kevlar, like 50 would be a good start. Its hard to know exactly. You talk about comfort so a lower tension would be better maybe try 47 on the kevlar and split the difference. Though it would be interesting what they say on the package and that would probably trump any advice you get here.

Kev is a stiff string and to get comfort you can go super low as Dman mentions. Though initially dont go too low. Yeah I hit last night with a racket string at 17 pounds so it can work really low. Truth is it was great, but more tension would be nice. This was with Poly crosses so more tension with the zx would be nice.

Also breaking natural gut in an hour is not exactly a feat. Depends on where it broke. Was it in the center and from string action and fraying?? Or was it at the grommet and the product of a shank?

 

[dman72]

Kevlar does lose tension, but when it does it doesn't have nearly as much effect on playability as it does with other strings.

A full poly job to me is useless after a week. Synthetic gut breaks in a couple of weeks, and I'm too cheap to use gut. I'm also lazy and I don't enjoy stringing, so I'm safe restringing the 2 frames of each type I have every 2 or 3 months. I play 2-3 times per week.

That's why I've used Kevlar mains for so long. They take 6 months to break and still play well up until the last pathetic strand finally snaps. I've had kevlar half sawn through that keeps going for another month. I also wax my strings during stringing, and then once every few weeks. I just take a tube of chapstick and rub it along the string bed, wiggle the strings around, and i get no visible string movement and spin production maintains the same, even though the kevlars coating has worn off.

No, it isn't as great as a full poly job, but a week later it's much better than anyones week old poly job.

 

[comeback]

My racket has a very open 14x15 string pattern, and a very large 133" hitting surface. I have two rackets, one of which has a full bed of 16g Solinco Tour Bite Soft, and the other has a hybrid setup with 16g RPM Blast crosses, STB Soft mains. Both rackets are strung at 55 lbs, which is the highest recommended for my frame. I like both setups, but have had chronic shoulder soreness for the past year or longer. I am interested in trying a Kevlar hybrid setup at a lower string tension.

Just as I was about to order some string, I noticed that TW is offering a Playtest using "Crossfire ZX" ---1.25 Kevlar mains combined with 1.22 Ashaway Monogut ZX Pro crosses. For comparison purposes, they are also offering a slightly different combo --- "Crossfire ZX Tour", which is 1.27 Ashaway Monogut co-poly mains combined with 1.27 Ashaway Monogut ZX crosses. Most of probably know that both of these proposed cross strings are made of Zyex, which has some fairly unique properties.

I do not know whether I will be accepted for the Playtest, especially since I offered to test both setups. It may also be that TW might consider my racket configuration to be too far out of the mainstream to be useful. However, even if I am not accepted for either setup, I have decided to buy my own strings, so that I can personally try both setups.

For the first setup using Kevlar mains, I am seeking some advice about string tension. Some advice I've seen says to go WAY low on the Kevlar, and perhaps as much as 15 lbs higher on the crosses. I am looking for comfort rather than power or spin, 'cause I already get plenty of both with the STB Soft strings. I also don't want to warp my racket. So, my thought was to stick with 55 lbs for the Zyex crosses, as it is pretty springy. Then (working backwards) I could go with 45 lbs for the mains. Make sense?

I am also concerned about the thinner gauge of the Zyex strings in the Kevlar setup. I don't normally break strings, but I did manage to break a full set of Babolat natty gut in less than an hour a few weeks ago. Ouch! If I do break the 1.22 Zyex string right away, I can always replace it with the 1.27.

Greatly appreciate advice and support. This should be fun!

Hey Hitman, i also signed up for the test (Kevlar Only). You have some good questions about tension. I don't think a lot of guys use our Vortex. But i think a Vortex should be able to handle a higher tension with kevlar..I guess it will be a trial and error thing with us. Maybe The Dark Knight can chime in given he's an experienced Vortex and Kevlar user. If i'm accepted i will only put it in my ES 108..I hope you get accepted and try it in the 116. I also think i will remove the poly crosses after 4 hours and replace with Gut (leaving the kevlar)..From what everyone is saying about kevlar, it can last for months so it's a much longer playtest timeframe

 

[Hitman99]

Big THANKS for the advice & comments.

The more I think about it, the less interested I am in the Kevlar. Though if that's what I get for the Playtest, so be it.

The only time I have broken strings after a short time was a full bed of natty gut, which frayed very quickly, then broke right in the middle of the racket. With my current STB Soft poly, I don't really notice any dramatic dropoff in response over time. I usually play 3-4 times a week, and both of my rackets were strung over a month ago. I really like the way both rackets play now, only problem is the shoulder stress.

Also, Tom Olmstead of Vortex really recommends Kevlar for the crosses, not the mains. Vortex offers their Kev-Tex string, and he says a lot of guys in CA use it in a hybrid setup with their Mega-Spin Hex poly.

So, the Ashaway Crossfire ZX Tour setup has a lot of appeal. First, the strings are a little thicker, which is better for my racket. If I string the Zyex crosses at 55 lbs, it should minimize the trampolining that can occur at lower tensions. Then I can string the Monogut co-poly at 50 lbs, should play a little softer. Hopefully I will get more comfort, maybe even a little bit more spin (no that I need it), and it will last a while.

Since TW hasn't announced who's getting the Playtest strings, I think I will just order the Crossfilre ZX string set now, see how I like it.

 

[comeback]

Big THANKS for the advice & comments.

The more I think about it, the less interested I am in the Kevlar. Though if that's what I get for the Playtest, so be it.

The only time I have broken strings after a short time was a full bed of natty gut, which frayed very quickly, then broke right in the middle of the racket. With my current STB Soft poly, I don't really notice any dramatic dropoff in response over time. I usually play 3-4 times a week, and both of my rackets were strung over a month ago. I really like the way both rackets play now, only problem is the shoulder stress.

Also, Tom Olmstead of Vortex really recommends Kevlar for the crosses, not the mains. Vortex offers their Kev-Tex string, and he says a lot of guys in CA use it in a hybrid setup with their Mega-Spin Hex poly.

So, the Ashaway Crossfire ZX Tour setup has a lot of appeal. First, the strings are a little thicker, which is better for my racket. If I string the Zyex crosses at 55 lbs, it should minimize the trampolining that can occur at lower tensions. Then I can string the Monogut co-poly at 50 lbs, should play a little softer. Hopefully I will get more comfort, maybe even a little bit more spin (no that I need it), and it will last a while.

Since TW hasn't announced who's getting the Playtest strings, I think I will just order the Crossfilre ZX string set now, see how I like it.

The Vortex website describes it as Gut-Tex not Kev-Tex and the description doesn't say anything that this is a Kevlar string.
Combing polyester mains with high end gut like multi-filament crosses, the Vortex Gut Tex encompasses the control and spin of a polyester with the power and forgiveness of a gut. The result is a firm feeling string bed that still maintains good pop.

 

[Hitman99]

The Vortex website does not list their Kevtex string. i learned about it from the Vortex president, Tom Olmstead. Here is a quote from the email he sent me:

"We also do a lot of hybrid with the 1.35MSH and our 1.25Kevtex in the crosses. Even though it is a kevlar core string being 17g and using it in the crosses it still has a soft feel, grabs the ball well and lasts significantly longer. Using it in the crosses as a support string is better than in the mains where it would tend to deaden the hit somewhat."

The "MSH he refers to is their Mega-Spin Hex poly string, comes standard in the ES 133 and the ES 116.

BTW, I ordered some Crossfire ZX Tour yesterday. TW doesn't list it, so I had to go to another site to find it. I also ordered a set of 16g Monogut ZX, will try it out in a full bed.

 

[comeback]

Ok thanks Hitman i wish Vortex would update their website..I might have been interested in this string. They still don't have my racket described there. It doesn't help future sales.

 

[Hitman99]

If you're really interested in trying some Kevlar string, why not try the Ashaway Crossfire + Plus? It sounds like the kevlar string is pretty cutting-edge.

I'll be doing a playtest on one of my ES 116 rackets, will share the results.

 

[o0lunatik]

I have been a loyal fan of Kevlar for over a decade and with countless of frames. My main set up is with either 16G or 17G ashaway crossed with SPPP or BB bomber nyc. I just love the lasting consistency of kevlar, for I am a chronic string breaker. Also the mental ease of knowing your strings rarely breaks allows you to just play your game and not worry about your stringbed.

I normally string my kevlar mains at 62lbs and cross at 58lbs. This will allow the kevlar main to settle and balance out the tension between main and cross. You may want to go lower if arm issues are present or if you like a softer string bed. What I enjoy most of about kevlar/poly hybrid is the snapback capability, and that you spend very little time worry and straightening out your mains. This works best with larger gauge cross. What i love most is the loud boom on contact which I find mentally intimidates my opponent.

I ordered a half reel of the Ashaway Kevlar+ last year to try out and prefer the crisp of regular ashaway kevlar much better. The kevlar+ has teflon weaved in which I find dampens vibrations by a good bit where I don't even have to use an absorber to rid the nasty ping. After several hours the teflon weave will break and fray a bit, but as with regular kevlar, the playability and consistency remains in tack.

Last but not least, after about 20-25hrs or so, I cut out the kevlar and throw it in the garage for rope/twine to use around the house. It work wonders.

 

[comeback]

If you're really interested in trying some Kevlar string, why not try the Ashaway Crossfire + Plus? It sounds like the kevlar string is pretty cutting-edge.

I'll be doing a playtest on one of my ES 116 rackets, will share the results.

ok thanks Hitman, i have several reels of an obscure brand of kevlar 18g and 15g..i was also chosen for the kevlar/monogut test so i'll also add my findings. Just trying to decide which racket to use and what tensions

 

[Hitman99]

See my update in the main Ashaway playtest thread.

I am planning to playtest 4 different combos, using two different Vortex rackets, as follows:

ES 116 - Crossfire ZX: 1.22 Monogut ZX Pro crosses @ 55 lbs, 1.25 Kevlar + Plus mains @ 60 lbs. This is the test I will report on to TW, and in the other thread. I decided to use the ES 116 racket for the TW test because I think the 1.22 Monogut ZX is too thin for the ES 133.

ES 116 - Crossfire ZX Tour: 1.27 Monogut ZX crosses @ 55 lbs, 1.27 Monogut co-poly mains @ 60 lbs.

ES 133 - Crossfire + Plus Hybrid: 1.27 Monogut ZX mains @ 55 lbs, 1.25 Kevlar + Plus crosses@ 40 lbs (changed my mind on this, since Vortex recommends to use Kevlar in the crosses. Also allows me to drop the tension for additional comfort).

ES 133 - Crossfire ZX Tour: 1.27 Monogut ZX crosses @ 55 lbs, 1.27 Monogut co-poly mains @ 55 lbs.

I'll be pretty busy for the next few weeks.

 

[comeback]

See my update in the main Ashaway playtest thread.

I am planning to playtest 4 different combos, using two different Vortex rackets, as follows:

ES 116 - Crossfire ZX: 1.22 Monogut ZX Pro crosses @ 55 lbs, 1.25 Kevlar + Plus mains @ 60 lbs. This is the test I will report on to TW, and in the other thread. I decided to use the ES 116 racket for the TW test because I think the 1.22 Monogut ZX is too thin for the ES 133.

ES 116 - Crossfire ZX Tour: 1.27 Monogut ZX crosses @ 55 lbs, 1.27 Monogut co-poly mains @ 60 lbs.

ES 133 - Crossfire + Plus Hybrid: 1.27 Monogut ZX crosses @ 55 lbs, 1.25 Kevlar + Plus mains @ 55 lbs (can't go higher w/ this racket).

ES 133 - Crossfire ZX Tour: 1.27 Monogut ZX crosses @ 55 lbs, 1.27 Monogut co-poly mains @ 55 lbs.

I'll be pretty busy for the next few weeks.

ok thanks, i might get to mine this weekend

 

[Ramon]

I actually use Monogut ZX 1.27 as a main string with Gamma Marathon 15L as a cross on my 16x16 Tour 98 ESP. The only caveat is that I string it at 66 lbs. Even at that tension it's much more comfortable than poly, has almost the amount of spin, and lasts longer than full poly (which notches).

 

[Hitman99]

My two packets of the Kevlar + Plus came in yesterday afternoon, and I am off to my stringer shortly. I will be playing with the 133 Crossfire Tour tonight, and hopefully will also be able to hit a little bit with the 116 Crossfire ZX as well.

Then tomorrow night I will play again, this time with the 133 Crossfire Hybrid. This will give me a great opportunity to directly compare the two setups on the 133.

 

[Hitman99]

I have now played for several hours with both of my ES 133 rackets.

Let's start with the One strung with the Monogut ZX Tour @ 55 lbs. I like this combo a lot, good power and spin, but not a dramatic improvement over the STB Soft. Does feel more comfortable, but hard to say for sure with only a couple of hours playing time. Even though I pre-stretched the ZX, it still may relax a bit over time. I will wait until I have 10 hours under my belt, then publish a full review.

The other racket has the Crossfire ZX kevlar hybrid. I used the ZX in the mains @ 60 lbs, even though that is 5 lbs higher than recommended by Vortex. My thought was that even after the pre-stretch, the Zyex would still stretch a bit, and bring the tension down to 55 or so. The Kevlar + Plus mains were @ 40 lbs. Travlerajm has pointed out in another thread that the tension differential is greatly diminished due to frame distortion, and I cannot dispute his logic.

Nevertheless, I like this setup a little better than the Monogut ZX Tour. It has the same general combination of power and spin, but nothing dramatic. The feel is more muted, with none of the "ping" from the ZX that others have noted. There is some snapback from the mains, but not as much as I was getting with the STB Soft. The biggest improvement is in control, as it feels like I have really nice touch on drop shots, lobs, placements. Comfort is also better. I am thinking this may be because the kevlar is inherently more comfortable than the Monogut co-poly used in the other combo.

This coming weekend I will be playing another 8 hours or so on both rackets, after which I can make a more detailed comparison